SF to refund property tax

Yitzhak Rabin

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Not in recent times, no. It would be interesting and as I have said, the could not be any worse than the liars we already have in. The worst they could do is lie as well.

To be honest, I'd be more worried if SF/IRA got in and actually told the truth and tried to implement such a ridiculous policy as trying to refund the property tax.

Agent J

Not much changes.

FF promising to remove the domestic rates(Property tax) back in '77 when they got back into government.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

And anyone who has studied their economic history of Ireland knows how well that went. It pretty much laid the ground work for the disaster of local funding we have today.

My name is URL

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Are people really that simple-minded??

I can't believe that people will vote for SF/IRA or FF on the promise of refunding or abolishing the Property Tax.

I'd vote for them just to piss you off, The illogical ranting would be epic.

In reply to a question about taxation of residences -

"It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home"
- Enda Kenny

If you want to conflate parties with individually held ideas you might want to question Enda about his racist tendencies... not to mention his party's ties to conservative religious groups.

In September 2002, Kenny was accused of making racist remarks after he used the word "nig$ers" in a joke relating to Patrice Lumumba, the assassinated first Prime Minister of Congo. Kenny wanted his "obscure joke" to be suppressed and specifically asked journalists not to report it

In a remarkable twist, The Observer has discovered that members of Lumumba's family - including one of his six sons and seven of his grandchildren - are living in Tallaght in west Dublin, after fleeing political persecution from the former Zaire in 1997

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/15/world.race

Because shit should never be forgotten...

Sergeant

Agent J wrote: »

Not much changes.

FF promising to remove the domestic rates(Property tax) back in '77 when they got back into government.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

And anyone who has studied their economic history of Ireland knows how well that went. It pretty much laid the ground work for the disaster of local funding we have today.

It isn't like it's the first, or even the second time, that FG and Labour have had to come in and clean up the mess left by utterly destructive FF populism. Seems SF want a bit of that territory, only in a darker shade of green.

Banjo String

Agent J wrote: »

Not much changes.

FF promising to remove the domestic rates(Property tax) back in '77 when they got back into government.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/from-1977-the-fianna-fail-manifesto-an-action-plan-for-national-recovery-abridged-version/

And anyone who has studied their economic history of Ireland knows how well that went. It pretty much laid the ground work for the disaster of local funding we have today.

Well then it was the oppositions responsibility to call for them to be reintroduced when the domestic economy was in much better health, and everyone was in a much better financial position to afford a property tax.

Thats what FG did for years, only no one would listen.......

Right?

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Will you explain this bit please?
What do we get for our money?

Just a few things here from the Louth Co Council site. Like other countries most of the money will still come from income tax VAT etc (central government grant) but there will now be a contribution from property owners. It's a very common funding model.

Water Services
Water Supply
Waste Water Treatment
Collection of Water and Waste Water Charges
Public Conveniences
Admin of Group and Private Installations
Support to Water Capital Programme
Development Management
Forward Planning


Unfinished Housing Estates
Economic Development and Promotion
Property Management
Heritage and Conservation Services
Environmental Services
Landfill Operation and Aftercare
Recovery & Recycling Facilities Operations
Waste to Energy Facilities Operations
Provision of Waste to Collection Services
Litter Management
Street Cleaning
Waste Regulations, Monitoring and Enforcement
Waste Management Planning
Maintenance of Burial Grounds
Safety of Structures and Places
Operation of Fire Service
Fire Prevention
Water Quality, Air and Noise Pollution
Operation of Library and Archival Service
Outdoor Leisure Areas Operations
Community Sport and Recreational Development
Operation of Arts Programme

Agent J

SamHall wrote: »

Well then it was the oppositions responsibility to call for them to be reintroduced when the domestic economy was in much better health, and everyone was in a much better financial position to afford a property tax.

Thats what FG did for years, only no one would listen.......

Right?

Political parties do whatever it takes to get into government.

SF included.

I must have missed their call in opposition for them to be introduced in this circumstances you describe.

I was waiting from some party to promise to repeal the property tax but promising to refund it is just beyond silly. Unnesscarily over promising stuff will in opposition gets you in a lot of trouble later on... (*coughs* FG & Lab)

tayto lover

Public Conveniences
Fire Prevention
Fire Service

Just on those three alone -

Will I have to pay a fee if I call the fire brigade to a fire at my home?
What services are they providing for me for my money outside of above?
Where are the Public Conveniences in Dundalk?

Banjo String

I notice 'water' gets mentioned in the above post six times.

What is the upcoming water charges for.?

Agent J

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just a few things here from the Louth Co Council site. Like other countries most of the money will still come from income tax VAT etc (central government grant) but there will now be a contribution from property owners. It's a very common funding model.

I'm not disagreeing with you but you missed a very important point.

The Central grant from government has been cut for years hence outsourcing anything like waste, recycling etc. Add to that the complete collapse of funds from construction has left a very large gap to be filled.

Iwasfrozen

SamHall wrote: »

I notice 'water' gets mentioned in the above post six times.

What is the upcoming water charges for.?

To pay off the debt.

Sergeant

SamHall wrote: »

I notice 'water' gets mentioned in the above post six times.

What is the upcoming water charges for.?

Do you think water arrives out of your tap without having cost anything to get there? Again, years of underinvestment in that area. Water doesn't win elections though.

Banjo String

Agent J wrote: »

Political parties do whatever it takes to get into government.

SF included.

I must have missed their call in opposition for them to be introduced in this circumstances you describe.

SF aren't trying to introduce one though, FG actively campaigned against one.

Agent J wrote: »

I was waiting from some party to promise to repeal the property tax but promising to refund it is just beyond silly. Unnesscarily over promising stuff will in opposition gets you in a lot of trouble later on... (*coughs* FG & Lab)

I agree, I think promising a refund was ludicrous.
It would have been more than ample to simply promise the abolition of them and likewise to any penalties etc attached to non /late payers.

I however reckon that will be FFs next stroke.

namloc1980

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just a few things here from the Louth Co Council site. Like other countries most of the money will still come from income tax VAT etc (central government grant) but there will now be a contribution from property owners. It's a very common funding model.

Water Services
Water Supply
Waste Water Treatment
Collection of Water and Waste Water Charges
Public Conveniences
Admin of Group and Private Installations
Support to Water Capital Programme
Development Management
Forward Planning


Unfinished Housing Estates
Economic Development and Promotion
Property Management
Heritage and Conservation Services
Environmental Services
Landfill Operation and Aftercare
Recovery & Recycling Facilities Operations
Waste to Energy Facilities Operations
Provision of Waste to Collection Services
Litter Management
Street Cleaning
Waste Regulations, Monitoring and Enforcement
Waste Management Planning
Maintenance of Burial Grounds
Safety of Structures and Places
Operation of Fire Service
Fire Prevention
Water Quality, Air and Noise Pollution
Operation of Library and Archival Service
Outdoor Leisure Areas Operations
Community Sport and Recreational Development
Operation of Arts Programme

It would be great if paying LPT actually covered the cost for the provision of those services to me but of course it won't.

dxhound2005

namloc1980 wrote: »

It would be great if paying LPT actually covered the cost for the provision of those services to me but of course it won't.

No that's what I said, LPT will make a contribution. It's the same in other countries. In England Council Tax pays for about 25% of local services, the rest coming mostly from central government. Average tax £1200 and people pay a few hundred more for water services and sewerage facilities.

Banjo String

Sergeant wrote: »

Do you think water arrives out of your tap without having cost anything to get there? .

No, but i did think it was paid for via income tax and commercial rates up until now.

Agent J

SamHall wrote: »

SF aren't trying to introduce one though, FG actively campaigned against one.

I was commenting on what you said a (responable) opposition party should've done over the last number of years.

SamHall wrote: »

I agree, I think promising a refund was ludicrous.

It is and it's going to cost them. The trick with auction politics is to not to be blantly obvious about it.

wolfpawnat

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

To be honest, I'd be more worried if SF/IRA got in and actually told the truth and tried to implement such a ridiculous policy as trying to refund the property tax.

The Provo IRA is long gone. The Good Friday Wink and Nod means those on both sides of the divide have the right to get on with things.

I myself am very socialist in my leanings and can acknowledge that as an expensive island nation at the edge of Europe, we need our low corporation tax to keep what few business's have stayed, though more and more are relocating the whole time, so I completely disagree with them there. But a few of their policies, were they implemented would be good. The same as with any other party. Some policies good, some horrific! Ergo the basis for this thread.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No that's what I said, LPT will make a contribution. It's the same in other countries. In England Council Tax pays for about 25% of local services, the rest coming mostly from central government. Average tax £1200 and people pay a few hundred more for water services and sewerage facilities.

We should copy their setup in England so.

Great value for money.

Council tax 'doubles in 10 years'

Council tax has increased greatly over the past decadeThe average council tax bill has almost doubled in the past decade, says a report by the Halifax building society.

The rise, from more £550 to almost £1,100, is three times higher than the rate of inflation and twice the increase in average earnings.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6232734.stm

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

No, but i did think it was paid for via income tax and commercial rates up until now.

Up until now yes. But from now on there will be a contribution from LPT. SF might keep quiet about water. Separate charges for water are inevitable at some stage in the North to bring them into line with England/Wales.

There is always a conflict between central and local government when it comes to local funding. Plenty of it going on in the UK all the time.

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Eric-Pickles-tells-councils-stop-grumbling/story-18490973-detail/story.html#axzz2Ob53yfRN

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

We should copy their setup in England so.

Great value for money.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6232734.stm

You're story is 6 years old. It would be far worse for people in England and Wales if their houses were paying on a more updated value than the one calculated in 1991 (yes 1991).

Guy:Incognito

So if the government collapsed at the end of the year and SF got elected, not only would they wave their magic wand and plug a €15B defecit in the countries balance sheet but also come up with a few more to give every house in the country a couple of hundred quid back? Where are these pallet loads of cash exactly?

washman3

The cost of bailing out Machael 'Fingers' Fingleton private bank for the elite would have paid every household tax for TEN tears,yes TEN YEARS.
Oh, and by the way, it would also have built TEN hospitals.
Putting this into perspective, does Sinn Fein's idea really sound that crazy after all.??

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You're story is 6 years old. It would be far worse for people in Enandnd and Wales if their houses were paying on a more updated value than the one calculated in 1991 (yes 1991).

I'm aware of the date of the article.

I only posted it to highlight how the charge doubled in less than ten years, this being Ireland and all, it will probably take the half of that time to double here.

Phoebas

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if the government collapsed at the end of the year and SF got elected, not only would they wave their magic wand and plug a €15B defecit in the countries balance sheet but also come up with a few more to give every house in the country a couple of hundred quid back? Where are these pallet loads of cash exactly?

Its very easy to promise stuff they'll never have to deliver on.

Only a fool would fall for this -SF are just trolling us.

wretcheddomain

Sinn Fein offering to give back the property tax would be a bit like a stranger in a van offering a Mars bar to a child - in other words, it may start off well but ends pretty horrifically.

dxhound2005

"But we're stating very clearly, and we're doing this very consciously because we know that for very many families across the State, this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

"This will be the thing that tips them from struggling to not coping, from debt into poverty.

"This is how serious this is."

Above is quoting Mary Lou McDonald. How is that true for people living here having to find say €157 this year and not true for ordinary people in the North having to find £1000?

Sergeant

washman3 wrote: »

The cost of bailing out Machael 'Fingers' Fingleton private bank for the elite would have paid every household tax for TEN tears,yes TEN YEARS.
Oh, and by the way, it would also have built TEN hospitals.
Putting this into perspective, does Sinn Fein's idea really sound that crazy after all.??

Yes.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

"But we're stating very clearly, and we're doing this very consciously because we know that for very many families across the State, this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

"This will be the thing that tips them from struggling to not coping, from debt into poverty.

"This is how serious this is."

Above is quoting Mary Lou McDonald. How is that true for people living here having to find say €157 this year and not true for ordinary people in the North having to find £1000?

That ordinary worker in the north will not have to find

740€road tax for a 07golf (i think it's £130 there)
€50 per doctor visit
250-400 per year refuse collection
Prescription charges capped at £4
Roads are not tolled
Education /book fees
School transport (buses)
School dinners
Lower vat.

When i tax my car and pay education fees alone, I'll have surpassed the rates charge in the north.

narddog

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Where are these pallet loads of cash exactly?

Asking the Shinners that question could get you in very serious trouble.