Grass Measuring

Tipp Man

charityboy wrote: »

I have both paddocks and open fields for dry stock and I am going to paddock the whole farm find it easier to manage grass as I'm tightly stocked

And we are going to rip up the newly made paddock on a bit of our cattle ground

Funny old world

td5man

Measuring Equipment;
what do you use?
Where can you buy it?

whelan1

td5man wrote: »

Measuring Equipment;
what do you use?
Where can you buy it?

mmm your eyes... you can use a quadrant and weigh it or just use your cop on, whichever comes easier:D

bob charles

I think the advisory are trying to shoehorn all cattle farms into a dairy type paddock system, when these are two very different systems. Not a fan of paddocks myself. The highest yield of protein and energy will be gotten per ac using tight grazing techniques but then this wont deliver the highest DM yield per acre. So what do you want, two much bad stuff or half enough good stuff. During the height of growth I would be of the opinion for cattle farms for a rotation of only 2ish weeks. What are dairy boys still be told rotation should be? still 21days?

I have heard people advocating making good to average silage instead of excellent silage. If you have excellent silage you have to dilute it down using straw which has no feed value and costs good money, if you have average silage you need no straw and you will probably get to the same point for the same price. Im of the belief of making as good a forage as possible

charityboy

Tipp Man wrote: »

And we are going to rip up the newly made paddock on a bit of our cattle ground

Funny old world

We could be doing the opposite of each other again in a couple of years One thing I have learned is opinions and methods differ on most farms each to their own I suppose

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

I think the advisory are trying to shoehorn all cattle farms into a dairy type paddock system, when these are two very different systems. Not a fan of paddocks myself. The highest yield of protein and energy will be gotten per ac using tight grazing techniques but then this wont deliver the highest DM yield per acre. So what do you want, two much bad stuff or half enough good stuff. During the height of growth I would be of the opinion for cattle farms for a rotation of only 2ish weeks. What are dairy boys still be told rotation should be? still 21days?

I have heard people advocating making good to average silage instead of excellent silage. If you have excellent silage you have to dilute it down using straw which has no feed value and costs good money, if you have average silage you need no straw and you will probably get to the same point for the same price. Im of the belief of making as good a forage as possible

Agree and disagree--We are big fans of paddock systems but not all ours are of uniform sizes. No herd of cows should spend more than 3 milkings on any one grazing area as it delay regrowth. Grazing pressure ie. high SR, unlike what you say is one sure way to increase your tonnes of dm.

I know of no serious grass manager who would recommend a 21 day rotation. In early spring for instance it could be 58-65+ days, at peak growth as short as 14 days and backend up to 90 days.

On the silage issiue I agree

delaval

By the way what do you consider highly stocked?
Our dairy block would average 3.2 rising to 5 at silage time total farm including heifer area 2.8 and no forage bought in.

delaval

F.D wrote: »

delaval, only doing drystock but interested in grass measuring to prove which fields are growing the least and need reseeding but it would be usefull to see what grass we have ahead at all times

1) as a part time farmer a platemeter would probably be the quickest option for us, if i cant do it maybe my wife could do it and there would be no variation, i'm not a member of any group so where in ireland can you get them at reasonable money?

2) as well as grass growth maybe you could throw up some figures of demand per animal, its all well and good saying you have x cover without knowing what amount the weanlings/stores/ cows require per day

1) Platemeter good start expensive though you would probably get on from Grasstech Bertie Troy, I will pm his number. If you could borrow one you would not be long training your eye. I would suggest you and your wife incorporate the measuring into a weekly walk and in no time you both will be on the same page.

2) Demand figures are simply calculated and another poster has outlined some examples.
The following is how I calculate
Cow requires 17kg's/day
S rate is 4/ha so 4x17 =68kg's dm is demand (it will be different for bigger cows) mine herd is 60% x-bred
If my growth is more than 68 kg's/day I am in surplus
If under we are in deficit and based on overall covers/cow may need supplemenation

ellewood

delaval wrote: »

By the way what do you consider highly stocked?
Our dairy block would average 3.2 rising to 5 at silage time total farm including heifer area 2.8 and no forage bought in.

can i ask whats youre sr is on the grazing platform only (not including silage ground) for the main 6 months grazing period apr - sept or maybe yoou just cut for bales as paddocks gets too strong to graze?

delaval

ellewood wrote: »

can i ask whats youre sr is on the grazing platform only (not including silage ground) for the main 6 months grazing period apr - sept or maybe yoou just cut for bales as paddocks gets too strong to graze?

I have no dedicated silage area take surplus as they appear. I would be comfortable at 4.5 average for the months you mention.
We take as few bales as possible use a wagon but thatis an aside. We have only topped 2-3 paddocks per year in any of the last 6 years and in fact none last year

ellewood

delaval wrote: »

I have no dedicated silage area take surplus as they appear. I would be comfortable at 4.5 average for the months you mention.
We take as few bales as possible use a wagon but thatis an aside. We have only topped 2-3 paddocks per year in any of the last 6 years and in fact none last year

so a growth rate of around 60-70 ?
can i ask roughly what N spreading plans are for those months as well?
do you spread afer each grazing, once a week blanket spread ect?
i know with youre cows probably not, but any meal fed once growth can meet demand?

sorry just re read youre previous post and you answered some of that already

delaval

ellewood wrote: »

so a growth rate of around 60-70 ?
can i ask roughly what N spreading plans are for those months as well?
do you spread afer each grazing, once a week blanket spread ect?
i know with youre cows probably not, but any meal fed once growth can meet demand?

Growth rate hard to answer but in that area
30 units N / acre
Blanket spread every 3 weeks
If growth meets demand no meal, we dust cal-mag to cover teatney

TEAT SQUEEZER

F.D wrote: »

delaval, only doing drystock but interested in grass measuring to prove which fields are growing the least and need reseeding but it would be usefull to see what grass we have ahead at all times

1) as a part time farmer a platemeter would probably be the quickest option for us, if i cant do it maybe my wife could do it and there would be no variation, i'm not a member of any group so where in ireland can you get them at reasonable money?

2) as well as grass growth maybe you could throw up some figures of demand per animal, its all well and good saying you have x cover without knowing what amount the weanlings/stores/ cows require per day

FD dont bother with a platemeter they are inacurate over 1200 kg covers.. i found various formulas needed at diff times of the year tedious also ... got a loan of one and was glad to give it back.. i clip and weigh if i want accuracy or eyeball if in a rush .. thats my opinion for what its worth

ellewood

delaval wrote: »

Growth rate hard to answer but in that area
30 units N / acre
Blanket spread every 3 weeks
If growth meets demand no meal, we dust cal-mag to cover teatney

Thanks for that

Sorry have one more question when you blanket spread, how many days worth of grass in front of cows do you not spread N on, ie if you have some strong covers for grazing just ahead of cows do you spread on that or do you wait till its grazed

And one last one, if a paddock gets too strong do you cut it near when it should have been grazed or do you let it bulk up before cutting

Thanks

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Agree and disagree--We are big fans of paddock systems but not all ours are of uniform sizes. No herd of cows should spend more than 3 milkings on any one grazing area as it delay regrowth. Grazing pressure ie. high SR, unlike what you say is one sure way to increase your tonnes of dm.

I know of no serious grass manager who would recommend a 21 day rotation. In early spring for instance it could be 58-65+ days, at peak growth as short as 14 days and backend up to 90 days.

On the silage issiue I agree

I was talking at peak re the 21 days, whats being recommended by those who should know best nowadays at peak growth for rotation length. AS I said around 14 days to keep quality up.

Re the DM yield - the harder you graze or are overstocked you will not hit the max DM yield/ac. What you will hit is max energy and protein yield which are much more important and of a much higher value to the grazing animal

Presume with uniform paddock sizes it can make things more tricky for putting down on paper regarding you saying that your getting 3 milkings from your paddocks presume this means that cows can be short for milking 3 as they graze out, or have you followers? I would have taught short one in 4 or 5 would leave more bainne in the tank

dar31

from discussion group meeting to day, done a bit on grass utilization,
got our figures done a while ago.
10.8t/dm/ha consumed, how dose this fair
didnt get much time to discuss figures, so just curious

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

Re the DM yield - the harder you graze or are overstocked you will not hit the max DM yield/ac. What you will hit is max energy and protein yield which are much more important and of a much higher value to the grazing animal

At peak then how long are you leaving stock in a field/ paddock and what rest period? One of the main reasons you're not hitting the max DM yield/ac is surely because of outwintering? Interesting your point of max DM yield vs energy and protein yield. Sounds like there is a balance there to be struck.

delaval

dar31 wrote: »

from discussion group meeting to day, done a bit on grass utilization,
got our figures done a while ago.
10.8t/dm/ha consumed, how dose this fair
didnt get much time to discuss figures, so just curious

11t/ha would be a good utalised figure

Now your next step is to identify the paddocks growing less than 8 tonne. At that figure you have paddocks doing 15t and some doing half that, like us all:mad::mad::mad:

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

At peak then how long are you leaving stock in a field/ paddock and what rest period? One of the main reasons you're not hitting the max DM yield/ac is surely because of outwintering? Interesting your point of max DM yield vs energy and protein yield. Sounds like there is a balance there to be struck.

not outwintering on our grazing fields. we do clean fields off as tight as possible before xmas. Max energy and protein are at the tip of the grass. old saying was the best grass grew over night which I agree with.

Your into guess work area now but what are you taking as a utilization figure 75%? this used to be the figure used

If we take your figure of say 11t/ha of utilized grass, bloody stuff is getting expensive. my grass is costing around 90 a ton to grow so @75% its €120 a per utilised ton:eek:

TEAT SQUEEZER

a couple of references to 14 day rotations ... the majority of the paddocks growthh comes in the final week as the plant pushes out its 3rd leaf... so i wonder is there alot of quality grass left un grown and hence un used ... delaval a demand of 68 x 14 only gives u a pre grazing yield of 1050 incl, 100 residual , to me thats sailing close to the wind...are your cows burning up loads of energy just to fill themselves.. have seen a scenario where this happened ..

delaval

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

a couple of references to 14 day rotations ... the majority of the paddocks growthh comes in the final week as the plant pushes out its 3rd leaf... so i wonder is there alot of quality grass left un grown and hence un used ... delaval a demand of 68 x 14 only gives u a pre grazing yield of 1050 incl, 100 residual , to me thats sailing close to the wind...are your cows burning up loads of energy just to fill themselves.. have seen a scenario where this happened ..

That's at growth rates of 100 or more, and how often does that happen? We would be sailing as close as we can to the edge and it occasionally goes wrong:mad::mad:

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

That's at growth rates of 100 or more, and how often does that happen? We would be sailing as close as we can to the edge and it occasionally goes wrong:mad::mad:

is it just me or used the grass grow faster in years gone by. probably got my rose tinted glasses on but remember the grass growing like stink during the months of may and june years ago. we havnt had a good grass growing year since when?

delaval

Bob our records would tend to back up what your saying, however we seem to be growing more annually with less and shorter highs.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Bob our records would tend to back up what your saying, however we seem to be growing more annually with less and shorter highs.

More shoulder growth or a flatter mid season growth curve. Suppose stocking rates werent as high in times gone by so made it look like grass used to grow more. Fert was also @ £150 a ton, maybe that was the reason. Remember being short of grass years ago and giving a field 60units for grazing, it turned blue and had grass over night. Know of two farmers who used to spread a bag of Urea christmas week without fail

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

More shoulder growth or a flatter mid season growth curve. Suppose stocking rates werent as high in times gone by so made it look like grass used to grow more. Fert was also @ £150 a ton, maybe that was the reason. Remember being short of grass years ago and giving a field 60units for grazing, it turned blue and had grass over night. Know of two farmers who used to spread a bag of Urea christmas week without fail

Was that soldier;)

delaval

Any of the new guys to grass measuring do a cover yet?

49801

Ppl using paper based, excel or an app for calculations?

whelan1

agrinet

td5man

delaval wrote: »

Any of the new guys to grass measuring do a cover yet?

No!

whelan1

if its anything like around here there's nothing to measure:D