woman = beautiful + strong?

ashers22

Table Top Joe wrote: »

I dont think strength is myself,my friends girlfriend is able to lift him(hes 15 stone!)and shes fairly small(fitness instructer)she looks amazing,strong as a bloody ox...but shes nowhere near as manly as Katie Taylors upper body(seen pics:o)sorry but thats just not going to be attractive for most guys

well what defines a woman is estrogen and what defines a man is testosterone, women are inhibited by nature so as to be softer with less muscle mass, they are never going to be as muscular as men but in their own right to be physically strong and defined shouldn't negate their femininity, as your gf has demonstrated. I think is all the op was concerned about.

Table Top Joe

shoos wrote: »

Take the girl a few pages back. I love your statistics btw, they're brilliant. Really hope you don't see things so black and white day to day!

By your "human nature" logic, then 99% of women must go for really muscular strong men as they're the types to best provide for us way back when or whatever. How do you explain the abundance of women liking really skinny or overweight guys?

Thanks!i usually do see a lot of life as black and white actually;)....and see others making things far more complicated than they need to be(this would be where pc comes into it too of course)


Abundance?....how many is that?(you could give me a % if you like) im talking about most here.......it really is like theres no such thing as good looking on this thread,thats all nice and fluffy but its not how the world is

Table Top Joe

ashers22 wrote: »

well what defines a woman is estrogen and what defines a man is testosterone, women are inhibited by nature so as to be softer with less muscle mass, they are never going to be as muscular as men but in their own right to be physically strong and defined shouldn't negate their femininity, as your gf has demonstrated. I think is all the op was concerned about.

I wish she was my gf,shes my mates;)......i agree with all that,i like women to be fit and strong....just not look like me!(though truth be told Katies arms are better than mine:()

TheBellJar

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Just googled Katie Taylor there....pretty face but theres no way on earth id find her body attractive,shes way to manly for me....those arms!


http://img.rasset.ie/0006cf86-642.jpg

You think her arms look manly? Are you for real?
I know plenty of women with bigger arms than that and it's all fat. Which would you prefer - bingo wings or fit, 'toned' arms?

I think it's a sign of a guys own shortcomings if he's intimidated by strong women. And as for the comments about no guys being attracted to them; I don't know where that comes from - all I see on my FB feed is guys 'liking' photos of fitness models and womens strength training pages.

Arawn

TheBellJar wrote: »

You think her arms look manly? Are you for real?
I know plenty of women with bigger arms than that and it's all fat. Which would you prefer - bingo wings or fit, 'toned' arms?

I think it's a sign of a guys own shortcomings if he's intimidated by strong women. And as for the comments about no guys being attracted to them; I don't know where that comes from - all I see on my FB feed is guys 'liking' photos of fitness models and womens strength training pages.

This is such a baited line.

Morag

Each of these ladies placed the the last Olympics, each of them at at the top of their field in the USA.



IF there are ladies there aren't attracted to fair enough, but that doesn't mean you get to speak for everyone else and it is their sporting accomplishments which is more important then if you find them attractive.

Table Top Joe

TheBellJar wrote: »

You think her arms look manly? Are you for real?
I know plenty of women with bigger arms than that and it's all fat. Which would you prefer - bingo wings or fit, 'toned' arms?

I think it's a sign of a guys own shortcomings if he's intimidated by strong women. And as for the comments about no guys being attracted to them; I don't know where that comes from - all I see on my FB feed is guys 'liking' photos of fitness models and womens strength training pages.

Are you for real? you dont think her arms look manly?

Which do i prefer? toned....but Katies arent toned,theyre musclely and look manly,i know plenty of women with toned arms,theres a big difference(women with bigger fat arms have as much interest for me as muscley,manly ones.....zero)


Ive already stated i like a fit looking woman,not intimadated at all....im(like i would think quite a few guys)am not attracted to women who look in any way like men,why is this so difficult to understand? i think this thread is a sign of a lot of peoples shortcomings in facing reality tbh,it is possible for a woman to be fit and strong and not look manly........Katie doesnt look fit in the way a lot of tennis players,runners etc look fit.....she has a manly upper body,outside of PC world here the dog on the street could spot this

Table Top Joe

Morag wrote: »

Each of these ladies placed the the last Olympics, each of them at at the top of their field in the USA.



IF there are ladies there aren't attracted to fair enough, but that doesn't mean you get to speak for everyone else and it is their sporting accomplishments which is more important then if you find them attractive.

But eh...isnt this the point of the discussion? i wouldnt knock theyre sporting achievements for a moment...why would anyone? i have no doubt though that on this thread they would all be considered lovely though and any man who didnt fancy them all equally would be intimidated by them

TheBellJar

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Are you for real? you dont think her arms look manly?

Which do i prefer? toned....but Katies arent toned,theyre musclely and look manly,i know plenty of women with toned arms,theres a big difference(women with bigger fat arms have as much interest for me as muscley,manly ones.....zero)


Ive already stated i like a fit looking woman,not intimadated at all....im(like i would think quite a few guys)am not attracted to women who look in any way like men,why is this so difficult to understand? i think this thread is a sign of a lot of peoples shortcomings in facing reality tbh,it is possible for a woman to be fit and strong and not look manly........Katie doesnt look fit in the way a lot of tennis players,runners etc look fit.....she has a manly upper body,outside of PC world here the dog on the street could spot this

No, I don't think she's looks manly. The 'Toned' look is created from muscle and low body fat. You might know women with skinny arms; there's a difference.

B0jangles

Table Top Joe wrote: »

But eh...isnt this the point of the discussion? i wouldnt knock theyre sporting achievements for a moment...why would anyone? i have no doubt though that on this thread they would all be considered lovely though and any man who didnt fancy them all equally would be intimidated by them

The thing is you keep jumping from saying "I don't find X attractive" (perfectly fine) to "X is unattractive" (not fine).

Personally, I don't find super-muscly bodybuilders attractive at all, but I'd never claim that they are unattractive to everyone.

TheBellJar

Arawn wrote: »

This is such a baited line.

A what? In my experience it's been true. If in your experience it isn't then fair enough.

Look we're all attracted to different things, people etc. That's not the issue I brought up. What pissed me off, was the generalisation that strong women aren't found attractive - as in my experience they are.

Arawn

Morag wrote: »

Each of these ladies placed the the last Olympics, each of them at at the top of their field in the USA.



IF there are ladies there aren't attracted to fair enough, but that doesn't mean you get to speak for everyone else and it is their sporting accomplishments which is more important then if you find them attractive.

I'll gladly berate one of them and make no apologies. Trampolining are you ****ing kidding me?? What a joke when a real sport and one of the original sports in the olympics is being cut. (wrestling)

Arawn

TheBellJar wrote: »

A what? In my experience it's been true. If in your experience it isn't then fair enough.

Look we're all attracted to different things, people etc. That's not the issue I brought up. What pissed me off, was the generalisation that strong women aren't found attractive - as in my experience they are.

Strong does not equal masculine.

TheBellJar

Arawn wrote: »

Strong does not equal masculine.

Exactly.

Table Top Joe

TheBellJar wrote: »

No, I don't think she's looks manly. The 'Toned' look is created from muscle and low body fat. You might know women with skinny arms; there's a difference.

Thanks for the explanation.......if you cant see the difference in the arms of a woman who has trained to be a boxer vs a woman who has all round body fitness then fair enough

Table Top Joe

B0jangles wrote: »

The thing is you keep jumping from saying "I don't find X attractive" (perfectly fine) to "X is unattractive" (not fine).

Personally, I don't find super-muscly bodybuilders attractive at all, but I'd never claim that they are unattractive to everyone.

What im getting at here is in a general sense some things arent considered attractive,of course there will be exceptions.....but generally,sorry but masculinity in women in is just not regarded by most men to be attractive,this might hurt feelings here(im pretty sure it has!)but 32 years on this earth and downright common sense says so


I also want to stress(again!)i dont regard strong as being masculine,looking manly however.....is,plenty of women in my gym are in amazing condition but i wouldnt consider them manly in the slightest(or have skinny arms because they dont have muscles like Katie)

Morag

So you think that a woman having clearly defined muscles as a trait of masculinity,
and you don't find that attractive in women?

Arawn

There is defined and over defined. I personally have yet to find an elite level female rock climber who I find attractive and they are super fit but extremely defined upper backs and arms

TheBellJar

@Table Top Joe

Morag wrote: »

So you think that a woman having clearly defined muscles as a trait of masculinity,

This I have a problem with.

Morag wrote: »

and you don't find that attractive in women?

Not finding her arms attractive is fine. Saying they're masculine is not.

Table Top Joe

TheBellJar wrote: »

A what? In my experience it's been true. If in your experience it isn't then fair enough.

Look we're all attracted to different things, people etc. That's not the issue I brought up. What pissed me off, was the generalisation that strong women aren't found attractive - as in my experience they are.

Masculine women arent attractive to straight men is the generalisation i made.....masculine,how anyone can debate this is beyond me


For the last time,i do not regard strong as being masculine

TheBellJar

Table Top Joe wrote: »

What im getting at here is in a general sense some things arent considered attractive,of course there will be exceptions.....but generally,sorry but masculinity in women in is just not regarded by most men to be attractive,this might hurt feelings here(im pretty sure it has!)but 32 years on this earth and downright common sense says so


I also want to stress(again!)i dont regard strong as being masculine,looking manly however.....is,plenty of women in my gym are in amazing condition but i wouldnt consider them manly in the slightest(or have skinny arms because they dont have muscles like Katie)

Okay here's an example. I'm not in amazing condition, not super lean or super muscular; I'm a regular in the weights room but not uber dedicated etc. I'm also not a boxer. However going by what you're saying, in this photo my arms are too masculine to be attractive.

Your opinion doesn't concern me on a personal level so I'm not offended (don't worry! ), and this really isn't a personal attack, but I do think it's unfortunate that there are men who see women with any degree of muscle to be somewhat unfeminine. I say 'any degree of muscle' because Katie Taylors arms aren't huge in any regard and are nowhere near that of a body builder etc.

I'm not attracted to skinny guys, but I don't go around calling them feminine because of it.

Table Top Joe

Morag wrote: »

So you think that a woman having clearly defined muscles as a trait of masculinity,
and you don't find that attractive in women?

When theyre as defined as Katies i would regard that as masculine yes,and no i dont find that attractive,it would be like looking at a guys arms which as a straight man is not what id want,would be a turn off tbh


Muscle definition like the girl in that pic(on the left)is entirely different though i think,she just looks like shes in great shape and despite some comments here i think theres a very obvious difference between the two

i do not regard strong as being masculine!!(im going to keep saying this:))

Morag

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Masculine women arent attractive to straight men is the generalisation i made.....masculine,how anyone can debate this is beyond me

The problem is that it is a generalization and that you are stating your personal preferences as being true for all men.

Table Top Joe wrote: »

For the last time,i do not regard strong as being masculine

But a woman having defined muscles you think is masculine, what else do you consider masculine?

Morag

Table Top Joe wrote: »

When theyre as defined as Katies i would regard that as masculine yes,and no i dont find that attractive,it would be like looking at a guys arms which as a straight man is not what id want,would be a turn off tbh

But they are not a man's arms, and not all men have arms with that sort of muscle definition.

Gauge

Table Top Joe wrote: »

i do not regard strong as being masculine!!(im going to keep saying this:))

You can keep iterating this but the language you use says otherwise.

Manly arms
Masculine women.
Manly upper body.
Muscly and manly vs fit and toned. (FYI. Katie is very fit. And if we're taking "toned" to mean low body fat, she probably fits that category too).

Your personal preferences don't apply to all men and yet you keep positioning them as if you speak for all heterosexual men.

Table Top Joe

TheBellJar wrote: »

Okay here's an example. I'm not in amazing condition, not super lean or super muscular; I'm a regular in the weights room but not uber dedicated etc. I'm also not a boxer. However going by what you're saying, in this photo my arms are too masculine to be attractive.

Your opinion doesn't concern me on a personal level so I'm not offended (don't worry! ), and this really isn't a personal attack, but I do think it's unfortunate that there are men who see women with any degree of muscle to be somewhat unfeminine. I say 'any degree of muscle' because Katie Taylors arms aren't huge in any regard and are nowhere near that of a body builder etc.

I'm not attracted to skinny guys, but I don't go around calling them feminine because of it.

Ok.....first off i wouldnt consider your arms manly,i see a big difference in yours and Katies,i personally think theyre very big(Katies...not yours)yours just look like you work out and look after yourself(which is something i like as ive said)


It might be unfortunate and unfair etc.....but this as ive been saying is just how we men folk are(generally!!!)isnt it obvious we would like the things in women that are different to ourselves? softer,less hair that kind of thing:o


Your last line is the same idea im getting at actually,GENERALLY!! most women i know dont like skinny guys,its just the reverse of what men want,they want someone bigger


I havent meant to offend anyone btw i just think its delusional to think men wont be turned off my a body that can in part remind them of a male,when im in bed with a girl the last thing id want to see is arms like Katies(well,technically the last thing id want to see is a mickey:))


Im actually much more agreeable in person....honestly(im downloading stuff to beat the band too which slows down my computer so cant reply to all the other posts ive caused in this wee s***storm)

Morag

Table Top Joe wrote: »

I havent meant to offend anyone btw i just think its delusional to think men wont be turned off my a body that can in part remind them of a male,when im in bed with a girl the last thing id want to see is arms like Katies(well,technically the last thing id want to see is a mickey:))

Why worried that would like it and that you'd have to re think a few things?

TheBellJar

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Ok.....first off i wouldnt consider your arms manly,i see a big difference in yours and Katies,i personally think theyre very big(Katies...not yours)yours just look like you work out and look after yourself(which is something i like as ive said)


It might be unfortunate and unfair etc.....but this as ive been saying is just how we men folk are(generally!!!)isnt it obvious we would like the things in women that are different to ourselves? softer,less hair that kind of thing:o


Your last line is the same idea im getting at actually,GENERALLY!! most women i know dont like skinny guys,its just the reverse of what men want,they want someone bigger


I havent meant to offend anyone btw i just think its delusional to think men wont be turned off my a body that can in part remind them of a male,when im in bed with a girl the last thing id want to see is arms like Katies(well,technically the last thing id want to see is a mickey:))


Im actually much more agreeable in person....honestly(im downloading stuff to beat the band too which slows down my computer so cant reply to all the other posts ive caused in this wee s***storm)

The issue isn't what you're personally attracted to, it's that you're calling it masculine and making the generalisation that all men are the same.. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Table Top Joe

Morag wrote: »

Why worried that would like it and that you'd have to re think a few things?

Ive had offers before,its not for me....and besides,what if theyres was bigger than mine?:eek:


No ill stick to the boobs(so to speak:))

Table Top Joe

TheBellJar wrote: »

The issue isn't what you're personally attracted to, it's that you're calling it masculine and making the generalisation that all men are the same.. Do you see where I'm coming from?

But im not saying all men are the same!.....i would say most though,i mean this in a very general sense,you dont see muscles as being a male thing,thing is i do and i would think most people would,this is why as has been mentioned so many women say "oh i dont want to do weights in case i get muscles!"


And by muscles i mean Katie sized muscles not fit,toned kind,i dont think muscles = manly,when theyre as big as Katies though sorry,but i see that and think "she has bigger arms than most guys i know"


Would you say im in the minority of straight guys in thinking she has a manly upper body and it would be off putting?...at a guess,i dont expect you to speak on behalf of half the planet either:)