Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

Richard Dower

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xbox-720-Games-Require-Online-Activation-Eliminate-Used-Games-Situation-327337.shtml

A brand new report has appeared on the web, this time revealing that games for the upcoming Xbox 720 (aka the next Xbox console) will require online activation, just like current-day PC titles, in order to eliminate the used games issue that is affecting developers, publishers, and even platform manufacturers like Microsoft itself.

Next-generation consoles are expected to be revealed to the world this year, as Sony is counting down to a big announcement on February 20, while Microsoft is teasing a special reveal that's going to take place at E3 2013 this summer.

Now, after hearing plenty of rumors about both devices, Edge has cited inside sources that claim the Xbox 720 games will require owners of the new console to activate their copies online by introducing a special code, just like how PC gamers are required to do with their own titles.

Apparently, Microsoft wants to make the Xbox Live online service an integral and mandatory part of the next console so all games will be tied to the accounts of the device's owners.

According to the report, Microsoft is willing to drive away customers without permanent online connections with this requirement, as it believes there are in the minority nowadays.

:mad:

calex71

As much as MS and more so developers would like to do this I really can't see it happening, especially the online only part thats being reported also.

I'd take this as a kite flying exercise to be honest, I mean there are the arguments for and against pro owned games, and I really think Gamestop etc should be chased for a share by developers but as long as there is no legal obligation it won't happen.

My biggest issue is when I pay 45-55 for a game on release pop it in and see 12 pieces of DLC already there on day one (Dead space 3) or I finish a game in a weekend all achievements unlocked with little or no replay value, under those proposals I'm pretty much stuck with a game I'll never play again.

Also this would impact on many businesses who rent games, I'm not sure what kind of market or numbers those involve but while not huge I'd guess it's not small either.

hightower1

Richard Dower wrote: »

According to the report, Microsoft is willing to drive away customers without permanent online connections with this requirement, as it believes there are in the minority nowadays.

:mad:

I would give my left nut to see these reports that their opinion is based on.
As a business strategy no one in their right mind would look a their curret userbase and THEN add restrictions that would effectivly reduce this rather than grow it.
Directors would not sign off on it and shareholders would laugh at it.

MS are one of the worlds most capible and competent companies in terms of business stratagies (if not also a little ruthless) and I will personally eat my hat come E3 if we see any of the new consoles with used game restrictions or always online requirements.

Rhumours like this are simply scare mongering in order to generate traffic to particular publications / sites. The old adage of "bad news is good news" is as true now for online media as it was for print media back in the day. No ones gonna circulate or gravitate to a headline like " NEW XBOX / PLAYSTATION HAS GREAT SPECS AND IS GENERALLY O.K. / AS EXPECTED"

I fully expect these scare mongering headlines to continue then escallate as e3 approaches..... "NEW PLAYSTATION REPORTED TO KILL PETS AS DETRACTS FROM PLAY TIME!" ..... "NEW XBOX FEATURES SEX DRIVE LIMITING FEATURE TO MAKE YOU LESS DISTRACTED!!!"

martinburke

Won't happen. Online passes at the most , like most EA games , both mass effect and battlefield 3 need online passes to play online , so if you buy a second hand copy you still must purchase an online pass.

Forest Demon

I would not mind if they did this if the games came down to 20 to 30 quid for a full price game but I am sure they want to do it and still charge 50 quid. Looking at the apple example it is clear that people will buy more games if they are affordable. We would all buy games as more of a disposable purchase if they were more affordable. Its a kick in the nuts to spend 50 on a game and beat it in a few hours and for it to have no reply value. It will just lead to people not buying certain types of games.

As usual they are over estimating the impact of used sales and under estimating the fact that a lot of people would not be able to afford to buy new games without trading used games.

Meesared

Wont happen, not a hope.

calex71

I was just thinking about this some more, I still remain really doubtful this will happen as in online only and banning pre owned games, but what I could see happen is a bigger drive on online passes to extend them to be used to enable achievements in games, what ever happens I do think they will do something regards the pre-owned market just not as severe as what is being reported.

Drexel

Id hate to see this happen but I fear it will. Developers will flock to a console that will make them more money in sales. Bad move for gamers but could be a very smart move by Microsoft

DUBLINHITMAN

Great for people with fiber bb and even better for people that absolutely hate dealing with one particular gamestop.
I'm ok with the constant Internet connection once you can still show your status as offline and crack on with single player campaigns or games you like but your mates don't like

Myrddin

After the month long XBL debacle over Xmas, it doesn't inspire confidence. Its amazing to think its acceptable these days that you cannot play a game you bought, on a console you bought, unless it can connect to a server somewhere.

Dave1711

Only way it will happen is if Sony do the same thing..i can't see them casting out almost half there customers due to them not having a connection.

PhlegmyMoses

EnterNow wrote: »

After the month long XBL debacle over Xmas, it doesn't inspire confidence. Its amazing to think its acceptable these days that you cannot play a game you bought, on a console you bought, unless it can connect to a server somewhere.

That was a UPC issue. In your scenario, it's more of a worry for the ISP to get things sorted asap or risk losing customers.

Myrddin

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

That was a UPC issue. In your scenario, it's more of a worry for the ISP to get things sorted asap or risk losing customers.

Regardless, the point is still the same is it not? You still can't play your legitimately bought game, on your legitimately bought console if by some way or another you can't connect to a server

Edit - And UPC are in no danger of losing customers, not when the only alternatives are rebranded DSL variants.

PhlegmyMoses

EnterNow wrote: »

Regardless, the point is still the same is it not? You still can't play your legitimately bought game, on your legitimately bought console if by some way or another you can't connect to a server

Edit - And UPC are in no danger of losing customers, not when the only alternatives are rebranded DSL variants.

As I said, your gripe in this instance is with your ISP. You can't complain about a company because the other company that is supposed to be supplying a reliable service for ample remuneration isn't working. That'd be like complaining to MS if you couldn't avail of your Gold membership benefits because your ISP had problems. You'd have a point if you couldn't connect over Christmas because the XBL servers are down, but that never happens because they have a vested interest in fixing any issues on their end as quickly as possible.

pH

It's just a matter of timing - 2nd hand games are dead soon anyway - the future is digital - it could be argued that late 2013 is a tad early and why the next xbox will have a disk drive for that reason but there's no reason why they can't bring the licensing model in now.

Definitely a good thing for developers was reading an article (think it was FROM software they were interviewing) where the developer said that they make *all* their money from day one sales - the major retail chains put *one* order in for a title and never restock - once that stock is sold they just grind the 2nd had market for that game. Online is slightly different but still.

Smartly Dressed

pH wrote: »

It's just a matter of timing - 2nd hand games are dead soon anyway - the future is digital

I don't think they will be dead any time soon. How many people actually have internet speeds capable of downloading a game at a decent rate?

raze_them_all_

pH wrote: »

It's just a matter of timing - 2nd hand games are dead soon anyway - the future is digital - it could be argued that late 2013 is a tad early and why the next xbox will have a disk drive for that reason but there's no reason why they can't bring the licensing model in now.

Definitely a good thing for developers was reading an article (think it was FROM software they were interviewing) where the developer said that they make *all* their money from day one sales - the major retail chains put *one* order in for a title and never restock - once that stock is sold they just grind the 2nd had market for that game. Online is slightly different but still.

Ah I forgot about teenagers and their credit cards buying games online... Hard copies will always xist as long as people without the ability to buy online are out there.

As for this needing online connection at all times to buy games, that is a load of bollox. In a world wide setting it is retarded. Look at Ireland it doesn't even have decent broadband connection, hell for most of the week I'm on a ****ing 3 dongle

raze_them_all_

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You're missing my point. I'm not trying to justify anything. My point is that this already happens. I could not use my gold functionality to play BF3 online, which is what that game is made for, for the whole of Christmas due to a service interruption on the ISP's end. Online gaming is where the biggest games make their money. Nobody buys COD, BF3, FIFA to exclusively play offline.

You are already buying games for a specific purpose that you can't use due to service interruption. Sure you could play the 6 hour campaign, but that's not why you bought the game. In fact, I still haven't played the BF3 campaign, 1.5 years down the line.

mass effect, dragon age, final fantasy, all50+ hour sinegle player games, In fact Im willing to bet their are alot more single player games than first person shooters where online rules all

PhlegmyMoses

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

mass effect, dragon age, final fantasy, all50+ hour sinegle player games, In fact Im willing to bet their are alot more single player games than first person shooters where online rules all

Right so, but how does that negate my point? The point EnterNow was making was this:

After the month long XBL debacle over Xmas, it doesn't inspire confidence. Its amazing to think its acceptable these days that you cannot play a game you bought, on a console you bought, unless it can connect to a server somewhere.

My point is that it is already happening to a huge amount of people and has been for years. I don't remember the last time the XBL servers were down for a serious period of time so if MS are considering this, and I doubt that they are, they can reasonably think that their service could handle such a system. It's almost always an issue with the ISP. We should be expecting more from our ISPs and not have to worry that their lack of reliability will cause a problem for us down the line.

COYVB

hightower1 wrote: »

I would give my left nut to see these reports that their opinion is based on.

It's from a "report on the web" not any kind of internal report. It's speculation based on speculation with a twist of hyperbole for good measure.

Will the Xbox 360 have online activation? It probably will tbh, but is there any point in taking online reports based on online reports to heart right no? Certainly not

Myrddin

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

My point is that this already happens

Yes perhaps in a multiplayer capacity it happens...but you can still play your games offline at the moment. If this new system is in fact real & not a rumour, you won't be able to play online or offline without an internet connection.

Personally speaking I've no interest at all in multiplayer, I far prefer an offline story driven game as apposed to running/driving around in a sandbox doing the same thing over and over again

PhlegmyMoses

EnterNow wrote: »

Yes perhaps in a multiplayer capacity it happens...but you can still play your games offline at the moment. If this new system is in fact real & not a rumour, you won't be able to play online or offline without an internet connection.

Personally speaking I've no interest at all in multiplayer, I far prefer an offline story driven game as apposed to running/driving around in a sandbox doing the same thing over and over again

Depends on how they do it. They could make it so that you have to authenticate when you initially buy it, download a file to unlock some functionality in the game, and from there you can play even offline.

COYVB

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Depends on how they do it. They could make it so that you have to authenticate when you initially buy it, download a file to unlock some functionality in the game, and from there you can play even offline.

That'd be the most sensible way to do it. Is it possible to put unique identifiers on discs?

PhlegmyMoses

COYVB wrote: »

That'd be the most sensible way to do it. Is it possible to put unique identifiers on discs?

You wouldn't even need that. Just have it work like DLC does on the Xbox. Functionality is unlocked until you pay to DL the file. The file is then locked to your console via a local license that is tied to your Console ID (Like a mac address). You don't have the file, you can't play. You lock it to the console, it can't be shared.

COYVB

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You wouldn't even need that. Just have it work like DLC does on the Xbox. Functionality is unlocked until you pay to DL the file. The file is then locked to your console via a local license that is tied to your Console ID (Like a mac address). You don't have the file, you can't play. You lock it to the console, it can't be shared.

Locking it to the console would be a disaster waiting to happen, particularly if there's a repeat of the RROD. It'd need to be tied to an online account instead. You're dead right though, they just need to do it the same way as they do with online passes at the moment. Stick a one use code in the box and you're good to go.

In fact, the online pass system would be ideal, because if you went round to a friend's house you'd just need to sign into your account there to be able to play the full game, just like you can with OLP now

Myrddin

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Depends on how they do it. They could make it so that you have to authenticate when you initially buy it, download a file to unlock some functionality in the game, and from there you can play even offline.

I wouldn't have a problem with a system like that at all, even as far as using a pass like the way the current online passes work. So once you register your game, your free to use online/offline. It'd still curb second hand sales whilst not remaining too reliant on an internet connection

Varik

Read a statement from ms a year or two ago on their digital sales and it showed that a very large percentage of connected 360 had bought digital content bought.

Perhaps they're just trying to force people to connect that first time and register or something similar who otherwise would not have bothered.

The majority have at least some limited connectivity, forcing them to go to the effort that first time could lead to a permanent live user.

When Live came out first when most were still using 56k , and I had set up a bridged connection with a laptop.

PhlegmyMoses

COYVB wrote: »

Locking it to the console would be a disaster waiting to happen, particularly if there's a repeat of the RROD. It'd need to be tied to an online account instead. You're dead right though, they just need to do it the same way as they do with online passes at the moment. Stick a one use code in the box and you're good to go.

In fact, the online pass system would be ideal, because if you went round to a friend's house you'd just need to sign into your account there to be able to play the full game, just like you can with OLP now

They currently have two licenses, one for your console, one for your profile. I was just focusing on the console license as it was relevant to the discussion. You can do a license transfer to a different console, using your Gamertag and Console ID, when your console RRODs or breaks down in
any other way.

All of this stuff is already in place as it stands.

jock101

If games are limited to a max of 30quid for a new release, I would have no problem with this idea. But no way will I pay 55-70quid for a game from the few retailers left like: Gamestop, Smyths, Xtravision etc.., with no chance of getting some cash back usually 30-35 quid within the first week or two of release. As it is I only buy AAA titles that have a decent MP game mode, as you usually get 40hrs+ of gameplay from there MP modes. Where as you on avg you get 9-13hrs from most single player/story modes.

Also with the startup costs of a new console on avg 400-500quid, then accessories like an extra controller(60quid), Online Subscriptions(avg 50quid), and then 60-70quid a pop for a next gen game, locked to one profile/console.

It will make retro and PC gaming a lot more appealing, and discourage casual gamers. Not a very good business model.

The argument that developers are losing money, well a lot more game studio's/developers will find it harder to make money if people get ultra selective about buying games with a use once system. Only games making money will be the GTA's, Fifa's and COD's!

EoghanIRL

Fake , I'll believe it when I see it . Exact same rumour about ps3 was going around last month .

Richard Dower

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Fake , I'll believe it when I see it . Exact same rumour about ps3 was going around last month .

Personally I think its real...I think MS and Sony made some secret pact that BOTH of them would implement the tech to do away with the second hand market.

It just makes sense from their side and the games makers, I am sure everyone would like to see the end of Gamestop for example.

I think its legit......:(

Meesared

Its highly likely its not real, this rumour has been knocking around since before the Xbox 360 and PS3, there is still a sizable percentage of Xbox and PS3 users who don't have an internet connection on their consoles, Microsoft and Sony won't want to alienate these customers. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint......yet

lazlo

I'm gonna just buy a NES instead. **** them all

PaulieC

Richard Dower wrote: »

Personally I think its real...I think MS and Sony made some secret pact that BOTH of them would implement the tech to do away with the second hand market.

Paranoid much ? I think you should probably spend less time in the Conspiracy Theories forum

Tea 1000

Richard Dower wrote: »

Personally I think its real...I think MS and Sony made some secret pact that BOTH of them would implement the tech to do away with the second hand market.

It just makes sense from their side and the games makers, I am sure everyone would like to see the end of Gamestop for example.

I think its legit......:(

I don't know if it does make sense when it comes down to it. There are many games I wouldn't have bothered buying if I couldn't off-set some of the price with a trade in. There are many on boards that often rush out to offers from the likes of Gamestop of trade in 2 games and get GTA5 for a tener and the like. The amount who wouldn't bother or couldn't afford to take a punt would be massive.

COYVB

Meesared wrote: »

Ithere is still a sizable percentage of Xbox and PS3 users who don't have an internet connection on their consoles, Microsoft and Sony won't want to alienate these customers. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint......yet

There's not actually. It's a relatively tiny minority that aren't connected in some way, shape or form

Meesared

COYVB wrote: »

There's not actually. It's a relatively tiny minority that aren't connected in some way, shape or form

Maybe in Europe, US and Japan, not so much elsewhere, anyway, even a tiny minority when your talking about console sales could be a few million

Myrddin

PaulieC wrote: »

Paranoid much ? I think you should probably spend less time in the Conspiracy Theories forum

You think its paranoid to think that MS & Sony want to capitalize on game sales & kill off the 2nd hand market? Sure it is...:rolleyes:

hightower1

COYVB wrote: »

There's not actually. It's a relatively tiny minority that aren't connected in some way, shape or form

You'll actualy find the percentage of people in the developed world (target markets) who have an active broadband subscription is actually only 56% as of 2011.

If you make a console that you need to have always connected to a "decent" internet source then you can kiss goodbye to that potential 44% of the market and NO manufacturer would willingly give up that kind of market share.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_broadband_Internet_subscriptions

COYVB

hightower1 wrote: »

You'll actualy find the percentage of people in the developed world (target markets) who have an active broadband subscription is actually only 56% as of 2011.

If you make a console that you need to have always connected to a "decent" internet source then you can kiss goodbye to that potential 44% of the market and NO manufacturer would willingly give up that kind of market share.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_broadband_Internet_subscriptions

100% of the population of the developed world are not gamers

hightower1

COYVB wrote: »

100% of the population of the developed world are not gamers

Marketers do not look at potential sales this way.
Anyone not already sold to or upsold to in an area or position to purchase a product IS a potential sale to be made.

If you remove the ability for MS to sell to this 44% they are DEFINITLY not MS gamers and MS sales and as I said.... no company will activly make a decision to close off a potential market share of 44% - NO one.

You seem to think MS dont want to sell to these people and also dont want to expand its consumer base to be outside just the "gamer" demographic.... their marketing strategy and diversifying product portfolio over the last 5 years would say otherwise.

Fingleberries

I'm not sure that it is 100% accurate. I am sure that there will be some form of attempt to limit (or monetise) second hand sales, but requiring a network connection to enable play is a non-runner, really.

Look at the issues Ubisoft have had with their DRM on the PC that required a permanent Network connection to allow play.

If you rule out anything malicious (DDoS attacks, etc.) there are other things such as outage weekends (for Server maintenance, etc.) or inconsistent broadband connections that drop out (but that never happens in Ireland ).

All of these factors are outside the control of Microsoft or Sony - so they would be entrusting the customer's image of the product to something they can't control. Unless they can guarantee 99.99999% uptime for almost every user, they will get some very disgruntled users and their brand would take a hit.

How many times could you see stories that "XBox is down again" - when it's just eircom broadband that is down, or UPC, or EA are just taking their servers down for maintenance.

We'll see - and I stand to be corrected - but I don't foresee the permanent network connection thing sticking around before launch.

Dave1711

COYVB wrote: »

There's not actually. It's a relatively tiny minority that aren't connected in some way, shape or form

Its a pretty sizeable amount IGN did an article a while back on it..around 20 million Xbox's aren't connected to the internet

COYVB

Dave1711 wrote: »

Its a pretty sizeable amount IGN did an article a while back on it..around 20 million Xbox's aren't connected to the internet

That's probably because they're dead RROD devices

Myrddin

COYVB wrote: »

That's probably because they're dead RROD devices

Over 25% of all Xbox's sold are dead? Unlikely, I'd say the amount of people who are just interested in offline story based gaming is underestimated.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Xbox-Xbox-360-Sales-Units-Sold-Kinect-Sales,21039.html

COYVB

EnterNow wrote: »

Over 25% of all Xbox's sold are dead?

How many Xbox owners do you know who've never had one die on them?

Clover

EnterNow wrote: »

Over 25% of all Xbox's sold are dead? Unlikely,

From personel experience I would say it is very likely , but then I take any of the sales numbers Microsoft and Sony put out with a pinch of salt.

Myrddin

COYVB wrote: »

How many Xbox owners do you know who've never had one die on them?

Me for starters. I've three of them, two jtags & a slim for online use. Never had a single issue. Thats not to say that the RROD isn't a big problem, but one in every four sold are dead I'd find hard to believe. Surely there would be a massive consumer issue over a failure rate that big? Imagine if a quarter of all sold laptops sold by Dell were failing, a failure rate that high would surely be dealt with?

Clover wrote: »

but then I take any of the sales numbers Microsoft and Sony put out with a pinch of salt.

Very true

Meesared

EnterNow wrote: »

Me for starters. I've three of them, two jtags & a slim for online use. Never had a single issue. Thats not to say that the RROD isn't a big problem, but one in every four sold are dead I'd find hard to believe. Surely there would be a massive consumer issue over a failure rate that big? Imagine if a quarter of all sold laptops sold by Dell were failing, a failure rate that high would surely be dealt with?



Very true

Id just like to add, neither of my consoles have died on me, one is a launch day one, only replaced it cos it was too noisy for Netflix use

COYVB

EnterNow wrote: »

Me for starters. I've three of them, two jtags & a slim for online use. Never had a single issue. Thats not to say that the RROD isn't a big problem, but one in every four sold are dead I'd find hard to believe. Surely there would be a massive consumer issue over a failure rate that big? Imagine if a quarter of all sold laptops sold by Dell were failing, a failure rate that high would surely be dealt with?

RROD WAS a massive consumer issue. Here you go, http://www.gamespot.com/news/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study-6216691

23.7% failure rate

COYVB

And if you really want to get a surprise, here's a quote from Microsoft that doesn't refute claims of a 54% failure rate (the numbers came from a 5,000 person survey conducted by Game Informer) despite being asked to comment about it specifically

http://gizmodo.com/5344302/microsoft-responds-to-542-xbox-360-failure-rate-claim-doesnt-dispute-it