Sexism you deal with in everyday life? ***Mod Note in first post. Please read***

krudler

Cosmicfox wrote: »

I was in class one day for SPHE 2 years ago in 5th year and we were talking about women in the workplace.

Our teacher (a woman) kept going on about how women in countries like Sweden were 'incredibly selfish' for focusing on their careers and deciding not to have any children.


No-one said anything at the time but it really pissed me off. Especially since this woman only turned up to her own job when she felt like it.

So in short women can't win. Stay at home from work and have kids and you're a burden on an employee with all your baby making. Don't have kids and you're being selfish by not having babies. sigh..

Cosmicfox

Malari wrote: »

2 years ago? I'm shocked! Was this a boys, girls or mixed school, Cosmicfox? I was in 5th year (does quick calculation...:o) almost 20 years ago and we didn't have SPHE, but in a religion class or any class where discussion was encouraged, there's no WAY a teacher wouldn't have been challenged on that (I went to a mixed school). We would amost be hoping the teachers would say something like this on occasion in order to stimulate some sort of interesting debate!

It's an all girl school and now I that I think about it it was probably 3rd year not 5th year as we didn't have SPHE classes during LC but still.

Roadtrippin

vard wrote: »

Off topic post for this thread

You clearly haven't been reading the entire thread otherwise you wouldn't have said such a dismissive thing.
Please don't dismiss real experiences with sexism that have been shared on this thread by claiming people are tossing the word sexism about casually.

sam34

I am a hospital consultant and I frequently get people assuming that because I am female I am the nurse, not the doctor. I've had interviews with patients where I've introduced myself as "Dr Sam34,the consultant looking after you" yet the patient has directed their attention to the male in the room (junior doc). I occasionally do home visits with a nurse who is male, and most of the people we call to address me as "nurse" and him as "Dr", despite us both clearly introducing ourselves and explaining our roles.

There is one man I encounter at work occasionally who calls me "good girl" in a patronising manner. I am not a girl, I am a woman and professionally I am at the top of my game. There is no way this man would call a male consultant "good lad/boy".

Unfortunately, my mother can be quite casually sexist. This is despite the fact that she worked all her life and encouraged all her daughters to pursue good educations. It's small simple stuff like expecting me to cook for my brother if he calls while I'm there, but never vice versa, she would neither expect nor allow a man to do anything like washing/cooking/laundry and she herself would never dream of putting the bins out or going out at night to lock up,as she thinks that'd be work for men. The most infuriating of all to me is that we are a family steeped in GAA, with an impressive collection of all-Ireland medals amongst the extended family, since we were all kids we have been going to matches up and down the country with both parents,and it's a great family occasion and tradition.... Yet every time rte do a GAA show presented by Evanne Ni Chuileann, my mother starts grumbling about how "those women shouldn't be involved in the GAA".... *head explodes*

vitani

vard wrote: »

SNIP

I don't agree. In the same way that homophobic jokes shouldn't be ignored, just because some people are physically assaulted for being gay. It's all part of the same continuum, and I don't think anybody on this thread is trying to take away from the people who 'genuinely suffer'.

clairefontaine

Is this the kind of cat calling you'd prefer? :-)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/487396_541698199188796_1728744368_n.jpg

eviltwin

I don't think its fair this thread which was a great opportunity to share stories is being portrayed as a bit of a winge. Yeah casual sexism isn't the worst thing in the world but its sooo annoying. And the thing is its usually something you can do nothing about because you end up looking like an idiot for complaining about it. Its nice to have a thread where you can come on and say "today ....." and people will understand. I don't need to be made to feel I'm over reacting. No one is saying other groups don't have the same problem but this is the ladies lounge after all.

Wibbs

eviltwin wrote: »

No one is saying other groups don't have the same problem but this is the ladies lounge after all.

This. We've had pretty much enough of passersbys coming into this thread and coming out with the usual "what about men..../this isn't serious sexism" etc and it stops now. There have been enough warnings in this thread so far. Next passerby, innocent of the rules and ethos of this forum or not, who derails this thread in the Ladies Lounge will be banned from posting here. I'll put a Mod warning in ths first post so no ignorance of this can be claimed. Thank you.

Posts by Vard and Blue Note deleted as per above and as per more than one previous warning.

PS No discussion of this action on thread(which is against all charters in Boards anyway).

Da Shins Kelly

It really is so depressing that a warning has to be issued in a thread like this. Maybe I was being too optimistic in thinking that this could be a really good thread that could go without being hijacked.

username123

eviltwin wrote: »

Yeah casual sexism isn't the worst thing in the world but its sooo annoying. And the thing is its usually something you can do nothing about because you end up looking like an idiot for complaining about it.

This.

I had a man talking to my husband instead of me today - regarding a gadget Im thinking of buying. It happens. I didnt freak out, but seriously, if I go up to someone in a shop and ask a question, I appreciate if they direct the answer at me and not at the man behind me!

crinklestein

When I was about 16 I was working in a takeaway a few nights a week after school I would always get comments such as " are u the dish of the month?" and good girl etc. one night I was wearing a white t shirt and some aul fella about 60 kept staring at me and when I gave him his order the says "thanks princess, nice bra!" I couldn't believe it just stood there with my mouth open he was older than my da

eviltwin

One thing that I really hate about FB is its allowed a lot of sexism to flourish. There is a group of pages called "Wetest Wetsers" ( most are public so you can have a look and see what they are like ) and its basically a group where young and not so young girls can post pictures of themselves in next to nothing and have random men comment on them. Sexism is bad but when women are complicit in allowing men to treat them like this you really have to wonder what is going on in their heads.

Morag

username123 wrote: »

This.

I had a man talking to my husband instead of me today - regarding a gadget Im thinking of buying. It happens. I didnt freak out, but seriously, if I go up to someone in a shop and ask a question, I appreciate if they direct the answer at me and not at the man behind me!

I have left shops over that after telling the sales person I was the one looking to give him money and he just lost a sale, that an trying to sell me something which is pink cos I am a woman esp when it does not doe what I want or have the specs that I want drives me spare.

Annasopra

crinklestein wrote: »

When I was about 16 I was working in a takeaway a few nights a week after school I would always get comments such as " are u the dish of the month?" and good girl etc. one night I was wearing a white t shirt and some aul fella about 60 kept staring at me and when I gave him his order the says "thanks princess, nice bra!" I couldn't believe it just stood there with my mouth open he was older than my da

I'd never actually realised how leery some men are towards female bar workers until about a year ago when I was working alongside a woman. The crap she had to put up with was unreal and really shocked me. Comments like - "I'd give her one" or "I'd do her" were constantly said as she walked by - there were some other inappropriate sexualised comments (that I can't remember now) on her first day

username123

Morag wrote: »

I have left shops over that after telling the sales person I was the one looking to give him money and he just lost a sale, that an trying to sell me something which is pink cos I am a woman esp when it does not doe what I want or have the specs that I want drives me spare.

Yeah, a friend of mine researched a car she wanted a couple of years ago. When she went to the garage to have a look and a test drive the guy wasnt really interested in her technical questions. After she test drove it she asked could they get it with whatever extras she wanted, the guy laughed and said "surely you are more interested in what colour we can get it in?".

Cue a 20k lost sale as she left and went to a garage up the road where they took her seriously.

Da Shins Kelly

eviltwin wrote: »

One thing that I really hate about FB is its allowed a lot of sexism to flourish. There is a group of pages called "Wetest Wetsers" ( most are public so you can have a look and see what they are like ) and its basically a group where young and not so young girls can post pictures of themselves in next to nothing and have random men comment on them. Sexism is bad but when women are complicit in allowing men to treat them like this you really have to wonder what is going on in their heads.

I've noticed so much blatant sexism on Facebook. I don't know how many here are college age, but there are Facebook pages that are set up by people from the various colleges around Ireland (and abroad) usually named something along the lines of "Spotted in *insert college name*" or "Confessions of a *insert college name* student" where people post either descriptions of a random person that they've seen around the college campus or give sordid details of sexual encounters that they've had with other students. The most offensive posts on the pages are almost always from lads and the descriptions are very detailed and usually contain the words "slut" or "whore" or some variation on that theme, and there were more than a couple of posts with sinister undertones disguised in "jokes". I remember me and few other people objected to the content of the page and we were immediately accused of being "no craic" and had the whole "sure, it's just a joke!" line trotted out. The page related to my college was eventually brought to the attention of the college authorities and is now being monitored. It was all outrageously misogynistic and borderline bullying in some cases. The response from some people of "it's just a bit of craic" was depressing too.

Morag

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I've noticed so much blatant sexism on Facebook. I don't know how many here are college age, but there are Facebook pages that are set up by people from the various colleges around Ireland (and abroad) usually named something along the lines of "Spotted in *insert college name*" or "Confessions of a *insert college name* student" where people post either descriptions of a random person that they've seen around the college campus or give sordid details of sexual encounters that they've had with other students. The most offensive posts on the pages are almost always from lads and the descriptions are very detailed and usually contain the words "slut" or "whore" or some variation on that theme, and there were more than a couple of posts with sinister undertones disguised in "jokes". I remember me and few other people objected to the content of the page and we were immediately accused of being "no craic" and had the whole "sure, it's just a joke!" line trotted out. The page related to my college was eventually brought to the attention of the college authorities and is now being monitored. It was all outrageously misogynistic and borderline bullying in some cases. The response from some people of "it's just a bit of craic" was depressing too.

I read a good article on this recently

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172647/my-male-relatives-facebook-who-sexism#

Dear cousin/nephew/second-cousin,

It’s generally a real pleasure to have you as a friend on Facebook. I appreciate that I can keep up on what the kids are listening to these days on Spotify and I thoroughly enjoy eyeing pictures of high school ragers. But I’ve noticed that lately your taste in “likes” has changed. It’s out with Bieber, in with Tosh.0.

You’ve indicated that you will be attending “Booty Slap Day” and have started to share videos of young men running up to women they don’t know in order to grope their behinds, run away and laugh—videotaping it all for hilarious posterity.

Now, I hate to get all Aunt Feminist Killjoy on you—but I love you and it’s my job. And I imagine you care about me too, at least enough to read on.

Here’s the thing: those guys running up to women just to grab their ass? Stuff like that happens to women all the time. It’s happened to me. When I was your age, guys—from boys in school to men on the subway—used to grope and touch me against my will too. I don’t know if any of them videotaped it or if they did it as a “joke”—all I know was that it was really scary.

Once it happened on my way to school on the train. I was wearing a dress because it was my seventeenth birthday. The subway was crowded and a man—I never saw his face—put his hand up my skirt and grabbed my ass right over my underwear. The memory of it still makes me feel like vomiting. This was just one incident—it’s happened to me at least a dozen times. The girls you know at school—girls you’re friends with?—I’m betting it’s happened to them, too.

Being touched against your will has become a twisted rite of passage for American females. It’s a reminder that you’re never safe anywhere. That your body is not really yours—but instead public property, there to be rubbed against by an old man or pinched and videotaped by a young one.

I know that a quick click on the “like” button may not seem like a big deal to you—but it scares me to think about the larger implications. I think about the high school kid in Steubenville, Ohio, joking and laughing about the unconscious teen girl in the next room who had just been raped by two of his classmates. That may seem a million miles away from “liking” a video—but it’s all part of the same world, the same culture that devalues women. Even laughing at a joke about rape supports the idea that women are less than and makes rapists think that you are like them. And the more you laugh at this stuff, the easier it becomes to take the ideas you’re laughing at more and more seriously.

Listen, I don’t think you’re an asshole who thinks it’s funny to do something that women find scary. You’ve been raised to think that this sort of stuff is all in good fun. Not by your parents necessarily, but by culture. You’ve grown up in a country where a Super Bowl commercial for Audi suggests that girls your age actually like it when a guy they don’t really know grabs and forces a kiss on them. (Seriously—they won’t like this.) You’ve been raised in a culture that positions women as existing just for sex, for humiliation, for objectification.

So please understand that I don’t blame you for partaking in the only kind of culture you’ve ever known. At least, I don’t blame you yet. Because here’s the thing—if you didn’t realize before that this kind of stuff is harmful and hurtful to women, now you do. So think of this as a chance to make a decision about what kind of man you’re going to be.

As you continue to grow up, you’re going to have plenty of opportunities (too many) to laugh at women’s pain, embarrassment or the sexual harassment and assault we face. These moments will define you. Will you laugh along? Share a video, like a status, laugh at a joke? Or will you say “no,” tell a friend that’s a ****ed-up thing to say, and walk away?

Yes, if you choose the latter—the undoubtedly more difficult path—your friends may give you a hard time. They could laugh, call you a “pussy” or accuse you of not being able to take a joke. I’m sure that will be a pain. But it’s still the right thing to do. And you can be secure in your decision to stand with women—to stand with me—because you’ll know that you’re better than all that. Media, sexism, misogyny—all of these structures are depending on the idea that you won’t think deeply about the messages that are sent to you, that you’ll just accept them without consideration or critical thinking. But you’re better than the culture says you are. You’re smarter than that and you’re kinder than that. I know you are.

So please, the next time you’re considering sharing a video or laughing at a joke or saying something unsavory about a female peer—take the action seriously, think about what it really means. And consider your Auntie Feminist who loves you very much.

Lucyfur

Kindly stop mentioning other forums.

While we're on the subject of sexism, I have an ex boyfriend who is constantly sharing content from UniLad's website/facebook. It genuinely worries me some of the stuff that he posts up that loads of people find funny. As an example, here is one (completely randomly chosen) article from their website.

http://www.unilad.com/how-to-survive-a-one-night-stand.html

I get that it's a lads mag, but that's just far too far for me. For bonus points, spot the casual racism too.

jaffacakesyum

I also think a lot of those college Spotted In or UniLad pages have quite sinister undertones. But I have to say, while the majority of these offensive posts are by lads, there are loads by women too. And even if the posts are mainly by men, just as many women like and comment favourably in it which is even more bizaare.

One picture a friend of mine liked recently was of a feminist protest (don't know what it was about) and it showed a load of women being disgusted at a single man in the audience who had got his bits out and flashed and was smiling. The comments on the post were atrocious "this man's a hero" "how do you have sex with a feminist? rape her"

Roadtrippin

true-or-false wrote: »

While we're on the subject of sexism, I have an ex boyfriend who is constantly sharing content from UniLad's website/facebook. It genuinely worries me some of the stuff that he posts up that loads of people find funny. As an example, here is one (completely randomly chosen) article from their website.

http://www.unilad.com/how-to-survive-a-one-night-stand.html

I get that it's a lads mag, but that's just far too far for me. For bonus points, spot the casual racism too.

I read that article and it is absolutely disgusting what they wrote there. Never mind it being a lads mag, it's simply disrespectful and depicts women as objects to be discarded after sleeping with them. I would love to have a conversation with the idiot who wrote that and tell him a thing or two...

clairefontaine

Roadtrippin wrote: »

I read that article and it is absolutely disgusting what they wrote there. Never mind it being a lads mag, it's simply disrespectful and depicts women as objects to be discarded after sleeping with them. I would love to have a conversation with the idiot who wrote that and tell him a thing or two...

I'd love to know why that makes him feel more like a man? Is that what it has come to? Who teaches them this stuff?

Da Shins Kelly

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I also think a lot of those college Spotted In or UniLad pages have quite sinister undertones. But I have to say, while the majority of these offensive posts are by lads, there are loads by women too. And even if the posts are mainly by men, just as many women like and comment favourably in it which is even more bizaare.

One picture a friend of mine liked recently was of a feminist protest (don't know what it was about) and it showed a load of women being disgusted at a single man in the audience who had got his bits out and flashed and was smiling. The comments on the post were atrocious "this man's a hero" "how do you have sex with a feminist? rape her"

While most of the actual posts were from lads, whenever me and a few others objected to it, there were a few girls piping up with the "it's just a joke!" line. There are definitely girls who are guilty of passively supporting such behaviour. I don't know whether it comes from a whole idea that some girls want to be seen as "one of the lads" or if it's just that they've just been so desensitized to certain behavour that they genuinely don't see anything wrong with it. Either way it's pretty depressing.

Roadtrippin

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'd love to know why that makes him feel more like a man? Is that what it has come to? Who teaches them this stuff?

Sometimes I do wonder about that. Where do attitudes like that one come from? I think it's not the majority that thinks like that (or I would hope it's not) but it's a case of a few sexist attitudes that don't get discouraged by everyone else keeping quiet. I reckon it's people staying silent about it that makes sexism worse.

Da Shins Kelly

Roadtrippin wrote: »

Sometimes I do wonder about that. Where do attitudes like that one come from? I think it's not the majority that thinks like that (or I would hope it's not) but it's a case of a few sexist attitudes that don't get discouraged by everyone else keeping quiet. I reckon it's people staying silent about it that makes sexism worse.

Some lad in my college wrote a very similar article for our college newspaper under some sort of "Stuff every fresher should know!" tagline and he got torn a new one. He was taken up on it and challenged to a debate by the feminist society (can't remember if it actually went ahead). The editor of the paper was also attacked for even allowing such an article through in the first place, and there were complaints sent to the paper from loads of people in the college, including lecturers. The paper ended up having to publish a formal apology and published all the letters of complaint about the issue. The initial sense of shock and disappointment that first of all anyone would write such an article and that secondly the editor allowed it to be published (either through poor judgement or lack of attention about what was being submitted for publication) was eventually overpowered by the relief that so many people actually realized that the article was very offensive and dangerous. It was kind of uplifting to see someone like that taken to task on their behaviour and being told that they're actually not as funny as they think.

Catari Jaguar

This week alone, in 1st class in the school that I teach, I've been told "girls can't play basketball!", asked "are girls actually allowed to drive?" have had the boys refuse to watch Tangled because it's a "girl's film" and refuse to colour with pink crayons. *sigh*

Roadtrippin

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I also think a lot of those college Spotted In or UniLad pages have quite sinister undertones.

Unfortunately, there are way too many websites like unilad on the Interweb. Just have a look at some stories on The Lad Bible where some guys describe their latest sexual conquests... Not only do they refer to women as 'wenches' in a derogatory way and rate them on a scale from 1 to 10, they also say lovely things such as these about the women they slept with:

I'm also beginning to sober up and realizing how ugly she is. So I ask her to turn around and take it doggy style. The view was not any better from there either, so I just close my eyes and try to finish as soon as possible. When we were finished I try to figure out a way to get the hell away from there. So I tell her that I need a cigarette.

One night having a few beers with the workmates. The plan was whoever lost the drinking game had to go to the table of fattys next to us, take one for the team.

It really makes you wonder.

Annasopra

Just thought of something else in terms of groups in education

I've been on a few different international human rights training course

I've found that in group discussions men completely dominate the discussions - they say what they want to say - they butt in, they interrupt and talk over women -

There was a particular discussion in one of my human rights classes in Dublin (not an international one) - the class was mostly women and the issue of abortion was presented by a presenter - The discussion then went on for about 10 minutes with all the men in the class chiming in with an opinion

There was also an issue where as part of a training course I was in a small group and we recorded a short video - One of the women in the group did not want it put up on youtube - she objected - there was then a man saying she must do it and maybe if it was redid her makeup it could rerecorded so that it could go public

cealabeala

To that Gotham person who dismissed obvious cases of sexual harassment as not being sexist, they are sexist.

If stereotyping someone based on their gender is sexist, then stereotyping a woman as attractive and therefore available for sexual advances, is sexism.

The examples of a woman who's colleague ended a professional email with a comment about her attractiveness, and the woman who had to fend off unwanted attention from men at work while they claimed she was "asking for it" by being attractive, are examples of sexism.

I don't want to be flirted with by the men I work with. It's not acceptable to me to flirt with someone you've just met or don't know very well in the work place. It makes me extremely uncomfortable and therefore adds unnecessary stress to my day. You should be professional.

When I was a teenager I worked in two nightclub's. In one of the places the bouncers would continuously make sexual remarks and flirt aggressively with me and most of the other female employee's from what I saw. One night one of them actually grabbed my bum as I was leaving to go home for the night. I left soon after that to work in another club, which wasn't quite as bad, but still bad. A few of the bouncers there would make similar remarks about my body when I would have to walk past them which was really intimidating.

Apart from these examples, most of the sexism I notice regularly is a double standard many people seem to have around male sexuality and female sexuality. A lot of people still engage in "slut-shaming", and unfortunately I've found women to be as guilty of this as men are.

Roam

cealabeala wrote: »

Apart from these examples, most of the sexism I notice regularly is a double standard many people seem to have around male sexuality and female sexuality. A lot of people still engage in "slut-shaming", and unfortunately I've found women to be as guilty of this as men are.

I think that society in general has been conditioned to view male and female experiences differently and that's why both men and women tend to subscribe to the double standard.

I find it bizarre, judging identical behaviour in an opposing way.

I've had too many incidents of sexism to remember. Being laughed at by stone masons when I asked for some experience and being told that "this work is not for little girls" is one example, but, there have been many more.