Sexism you deal with in everyday life? ***Mod Note in first post. Please read***

Femme_Fatale

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Kind of going off topic here but I think the solution to these guys needs to be found within Islam. There needs to be a moderating force similar to the one that moved Christianity from the Spanish Inquisition to the church of today. I am not sure what the west can do about this other than put pressure on the Islamic nations that are receptive to reason. Commenting is fine and I do think we can afford to be more intolerant of some of the elements becoming more common in our own countries (the French ban on the burka being one example) but to literally stick our nose in in a physical sense will only make things worse as has been seen from the Iraq and Afghan disasters leading to the growth of more militant factions.

Yeh I agree. I'm not advocating literally sticking our noses in, but there is nothing wrong with commenting.

clairefontaine

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yes there are. It's not so much having sympathy for the Taliban, but the notion that we in the West shouldn't be commenting/sticking our noses in seeing as "we're" not so perfect ourselves.

Its alternative feminism. Left is all over the place with its tolerances.

amtc

To get back on track - being the chair at a meeting, but as the only girl still expected to pour the tea/coffee

FouxDaFaFa

amtc wrote: »

To get back on track - being the chair at a meeting, but as the only girl still expected to pour the tea/coffee

So, I waited a few days before coming back. I cannot get over this!

What are the logistics? Do you pour the tea and then start, is there a break?
I just can't even picture it.

amtc

amtc wrote: »

To get back on track - being the chair at a meeting, but as the only girl still expected to pour the tea/coffee

But please tell me you didn't

amtc

I did for the first one, as they didn't know who I was. Then pointed this out to my boss - CEO (of large Irish semi state) poured thereafter!

Tigger99

But it doesn't matter whether you are chair or not, surely it shouldn't be ok even if you weren't?

WindSock

How was it expected of you to Mrs Doyle everyone their beverages? Did someone say it to you or did people just stand there staring at you while panting and making gestures towards the caddy?

Sauve

:rolleyes:

Tiddlypeeps

I got into a conversation recently with some work colleagues about children. One of them has children, the other was saying he want's to do some stuff before settling down and I said I don't really want to have kids but if my OH really wanted them I wouldn't mind so much as long as he was the one staying home with them and that I have no interest in ever taking on a housewife role. The one with children just said "you say that now, but you'll feel different when you hold the child in your hands" referring to the not wanting to stay home with it bit. I laughed at him and said it's easy to say when you aren't the one staying home with your own kids every day and if that is really the case then why is it that he chose to be the one working. I don't know why but that really got on my nerves.

Das Kitty

Oh god, I'd go mad staying at home!

Today my kid's school put up a load of photos of crappy parking outside the school at drop off time. The worst offender was all crooked and halfway out on the road. "Not even a woman driver." The quote under the photo read.

Jeez.

I know for a fact a woman wrote that too.

iwantmydinner

Das Kitty wrote: »

"Not even a woman driver." The quote under the photo read.

Jeez.

I know for a fact a woman wrote that too.

Oh FFS.

iwantmydinner

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I got into a conversation recently with some work colleagues about children. One of them has children, the other was saying he want's to do some stuff before settling down and I said I don't really want to have kids but if my OH really wanted them I wouldn't mind so much as long as he was the one staying home with them and that I have no interest in ever taking on a housewife role. The one with children just said "you say that now, but you'll feel different when you hold the child in your hands" referring to the not wanting to stay home with it bit. I laughed at him and said it's easy to say when you aren't the one staying home with your own kids every day and if that is really the case then why is it that he chose to be the one working. I don't know why but that really got on my nerves.

Nice judgemental and patronising tone struck there.

My three sisters and I are my mother's pride and joy, but the five of us know that she would have been much happier if she'd held onto her job outside the home after we came along. Different situations suit different people/families better. I don't understand how *so many* people *still* assume all mothers automatically want to give up their outside work.

Femme_Fatale

Das Kitty wrote: »

"Not even a woman driver." The quote under the photo read.

Jeez.

I know for a fact a woman wrote that too.

THIS is what I find baffling - women making negative sweeping statements about... women.
Is it: lack of self awareness, lack of irony, stupidity, or arrogance (thinking they're the only exception) I wonder...?

GalwayGuy2

THIS is what I find baffling - women making negative sweeping statements about... women.
Is it: lack of self awareness, lack of irony, stupidity, or arrogance (thinking they're the only exception) I wonder...?

...It could just be misogyny?

Georgie13

With regard to the whole "unilad", "spotted on campus" etc facebook thing that was mentioned here in some earlier posts, are there any other college students here who feel like these pages are actually making the experience of being a woman on campus worse in an everyday way? Like, I often feel really uncomfortable in the library now because when I walk around on my own looking for a free computer or a particular book or something I get stared out of it by random groups of guys, it's like they HAVE to stare anytime someone walks into a room to see if it's girl and if so, whether they think she's "hot" or whatever... And then there's the ones who actually come sit near you and stare creepily or keep trying to hit on you when you're clearly just trying to do some work on the computer. And I always overhear them making comments about other girls as well. This sort of stuff was happening every single day when I was trying to work on an essay at the end of last term, but I don't remember it being so bad when I started college three years ago so I think it has a lot to do with these "spotted in the library" pages. Anyone else feel the same?

ivytwine

Georgie, it's been two years since I left college so not sure. I do know I'd hate to be a first year now. God help any girl who is naive or trusting, those Facebook pages make it like a shark pit.

Ignore those **** and get on with your work. They'll be the ones repeating.

Femme_Fatale

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

THIS is what I find baffling - women making negative sweeping statements about... women.
Is it: lack of self awareness, lack of irony, stupidity, or arrogance (thinking they're the only exception) I wonder...?

This is something I've observed. On more than a few occasions I've heard women talk about how all their friends are men, since women are so bitchy and hard to get along with.

The clear implication is that 'all women are bitches - except me'.

I imagine it's the same self aggrandisement at work when you hear remarks about other womens driving etc.

Misogyny feels like more of a betrayal when it comes from another woman.

YumCha

Candie wrote: »

The clear implication is that 'all women are bitches - except me'.

Reminds me a bit of that article "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - those women granted themselves an exception, but no one else could have one of course...

Georgie13 wrote: »

Like, I often feel really uncomfortable in the library now because when I walk around on my own looking for a free computer or a particular book or something I get stared out of it by random groups of guys, it's like they HAVE to stare anytime someone walks into a room to see if it's girl and if so, whether they think she's "hot" or whatever... And then there's the ones who actually come sit near you and stare creepily or keep trying to hit on you when you're clearly just trying to do some work on the computer.

Sounds like they could use The Feminist Guide to Non-Creepy Flirting

Tiddlypeeps

Candie wrote: »

This is something I've observed. On more than a few occasions I've heard women talk about how all their friends are men, since women are so bitchy and hard to get along with.

The clear implication is that 'all women are bitches - except me'.

I imagine it's the same self aggrandisement at work when you hear remarks about other womens driving etc.

Misogyny feels like more of a betrayal when it comes from another woman.

I don't know if I agree with that. Most of my friends are guys, does that make me a mysogynist?

Men and women do have differences, obviously not all women are bitches but women do have a tendency to be more emotive than men making it easier in general to hurt a womans feelings compared to hurting a mans feelings. I'm a very direct person so this isn't a trait that works well in my relationships with others so most of my friendships over the years have tended to be with men. There have been exceptions because obviously not all women are the same. I didn't consciously decide all my friends are going to be male it's just how it happened.

Weather these differences are nature or nurture is an entirely different discussion but the point stands that men and women have different personality traits that they tend towards and pointing those out isn't sexist.

If someone said that they choose not to associate with any women because all women are bitches then that would of course be incredibly sexist.

Tiddlypeeps

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I don't know if I agree with that. Most of my friends are guys, does that make me a mysogynist?

Men and women do have differences, obviously not all women are bitches but women do have a tendency to be more emotive than men making it easier in general to hurt a womans feelings compared to hurting a mans feelings. I'm a very direct person so this isn't a trait that works well in my relationships with others so most of my friendships over the years have tended to be with men. There have been exceptions because obviously not all women are the same. I didn't consciously decide all my friends are going to be male it's just how it happened.

Weather these differences are nature or nurture is an entirely different discussion but the point stands that men and women have different personality traits that they tend towards and pointing those out isn't sexist.

If someone said that they choose not to associate with any women because all women are bitches then that would of course be incredibly sexist.

No, please don't take it as a judgement on women who've mainly male friends for whatever reason.

It's an observation on the sort of woman who has no trouble making a blanket, sweeping, generalisation. It's one thing to generally get along better with guys, it's another to label all other women as bitchy or hard to get along with.

Actually, my experience would be that the more people of both genders I get to know well, the less I see of differences that could be considered inate. I think we've more in common, under the surface, than is commonly thought.

Femme_Fatale

Misogyny from women is the worst IMO.

Candie wrote: »

This is something I've observed. On more than a few occasions I've heard women talk about how all their friends are men, since women are so bitchy and hard to get along with.

Yep. Hate it. Must suck to be able to apply such crap to the very group they're part of. If they're an "exception" (and I think if you're a woman who can call women bitches, then you are indeed going some way to proving that point :pac:) then how so sure there aren't other "exceptions"?

If a woman finds it really hard to get on with other women, maybe the issue is with her and not a big group of other women?
To echo Candie, I'm not applying that to women who are more drawn to hanging out with lads but who don't go tarring all other women with the "bitchy" brush.

meeeeh

Das Kitty wrote: »

Oh god, I'd go mad staying at home!

Today my kid's school put up a load of photos of crappy parking outside the school at drop off time. The worst offender was all crooked and halfway out on the road. "Not even a woman driver." The quote under the photo read.

Jeez.

I know for a fact a woman wrote that too.

I bet it was a pensioner. In Nissan Micra

bronte

I have had repeated bad experiences when it comes to female friendships including one that lasted almost ten years and fell apart due to the constant lying and attempts to start rows within the group. My three closest friends are male and I do find them easier to get along with. Maybe it's down to me being a bit of a tomboy and having similar interests. I don't for a second think that all women are like the ones I've had crap experiences with, I think I've just been unlucky. It is enraging to hear people spout out the "maybe it's you" line when they have no idea of the hurt I've experienced and shit I tolerated over the years.

Lazy generalisations are rubbish no matter what side they come from.

rener

People presume I'm promiscuous because I'm a foreigner.