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Sexism you deal with in everyday life? ***Mod Note in first post. Please read***

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    #62
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    awec wrote: »
    Has the world really got to the stage where the suggestion that a woman may one day get pregnant is now offensive?

    Plenty of women dont get pregnant, dont want to get pregnant and intend to never get pregnant and find it annoying and yes, sexist, that it is assumed that they will have children simply because they are women.

    It is not assumed that men will become fathers, it is assumed that they might become fathers.


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    #63
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    awec wrote: »
    Won't deny that, the refusal of medical treatment was clearly wrong.

    But this assumption that a woman will have children is not sexism in any way, shape or form to me.

    It's an assumption that just cos you have a womb that you can and you will want to have children. It's wrong and it's pretty hurtful to a range of women for a range of reasons.

    That assumption is why it's impossible for women to choose to the a Tubal Ligation in this country and it reduced women's role in society to that of baby factory.


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    #64
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,509 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


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    #65
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    On the Good Girl thing, I remember my father saying "Good Girl, thanks" to the young lady who was serving him in the shop, and I was mortified. BUT we then went into another shop where he said "Good Chap, thanks" to the young man serving him. I think it was more of an ageist thing than a sexist thing :o
    Gotham wrote: »

    I can picture an old woman doing the same to me, I'm sure she wouldn't do it if I were a girl. That's not sexism.

    You can picture? But it didn't happen, no? But you can picture it happening? Oh well that's ok then. Something actually happened to me (on more than one occasion), but because you can "picture" it happening to you that makes it OK. :rolleyes:
    awec wrote: »
    But this assumption that a woman will have children is not sexism in any way, shape or form to me.

    I can see your point, but as a woman who does not want to have kids I can tell you that I very very regularly suffer sexist comments because of this decision and I am most definitely not in the minority. If you haven't already read it, have a look at the "child bearing years" thread.


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    #66
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,509 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


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    #67
    ciagr297
    Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ciagr297


    On the general topic of sexism in everyday life (in my office)

    if I answer the door to someone (small office, no reception desk) - i am the secretary
    if I bother to gather up the old newspapers sitting there for a few days - i am the office hostess and therefore responsible for making sure the entire office is kept clean
    if I need to use the conference room for a meeting after one of the sales guys, and i complain he has left a stack of dirty cups in there from his meeting - i am such a woman


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    #68
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    awec wrote: »
    Where does it end? What are we allowed to assume about anyone? Are we allowed to assume anything at all? Am I allowed to assume someone is straight? Is that discriminatory? What about assuming someone's religion? Is that discriminatory?

    I find as a rule I get on better with my fellow men and women when I don't make assumptions about anyone.


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    #69
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    awec wrote: »
    No.

    I am saying, there is no such right to go through life without being offended. It simply does not exist.

    No one is arguing the opposite. :confused:


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    #70
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Dolbert wrote: »
    Look up mansplaining while you're at it.
    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Less mansplaining, more on-topic posts.
    Good job throwing me into a stereotype pile without actually refuting anything I've said.
    B0jangles wrote: »
    You are totally ridiculous.
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth, or at least more generalisations.
    username123 wrote: »
    Doubtful, asking a gay man to show his tits for the lads just doesnt really make any sense confused.png
    "Show us your cock!" - It's a hypothetical scenario where everyone is gay.
    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
    Now this topic is nothing to do with sexism, so you can brush any notion of "mansplaining" or whatever under the carpet.
    I've already explained the two main reasons why offence shouldn't be taken by anybody.
    If someone says something "offensive" or rude, and it happens to be true, then you need to face reality. Being offended by it is not going to achieve anything.
    If someone is spouting falsities then you can ignore them, no reason to get "offended" at things that aren't true. It's not like you get offended at <insert-whatever-religion-you-arent-from-here>. Do you? (religion is another topic altogether, but it's a good example for this scenario).
    Are you advocating that acting illogical is an ok behaviour?


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    #71
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,509 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


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    #72
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    awec wrote: »
    Do you start your conversations off with those people with a questionnaire or something to ensure you avoid all assumptions in your mind?

    "Are you gay?"

    "Are you catholic?"

    "Do you like tea?"

    "Are you from the country?"

    "Great, now that we have the important bits out of the way we can continue our conversation and let it be known that I am not discriminating against you in any way, shape or form".

    You make assumptions, implicitly or explicitly.
    Why would I need to know or care if someone is gay, straight, religious or otherwise when having a normal conversation with them? And why would I assume someone is gay, or religious, or a cat lover, or into travelling, if they never said anything about it and it didn't come up?

    I just take people as I find them, unless they are being some sort of obnoxious person who makes assumptions about me.


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    #73
    homemadecider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭homemadecider


    awec wrote: »
    Do you start your conversations off with those people with a questionnaire or something to ensure you avoid all assumptions in your mind?

    "Are you gay?"

    "Are you catholic?"

    "Do you like tea?"

    "Are you from the country?"

    "Great, now that we have the important bits out of the way we can begin our conversation and let it be known that I am not discriminating against you in any way, shape or form".

    You make assumptions, implicitly or explicitly. Everyone does.

    Are these essential prerequisites for a conversation? If so, I've been doing it all wrong.


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    #74
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    awec wrote: »
    Me asking you in the street when you plan to have children is quite obviously not.

    To start with that would be incredibly rude, none of your business and would show you up to be a person with a lack of manners and awareness.

    Again it is an assumption that just cos I appear to be female I must have a functioning womb and I am going to be pregnant at some stage. If you can't understand why that assumption is wrong then there's no point trying to discuss it further with you.


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    #75
    Lucyfur
    Registered Users Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭Lucyfur


    STAY ON TOPIC.

    OFF TOPIC POSTS WILL BE DELETED AND USERS WILL BY WARNED/INFRACTED/BANNED ACCORDINGLY.


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    #76
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,509 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


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    #77
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    awec wrote: »
    So to clarify here.

    I am in a pub. I meet one of you. We are chatting. The subject of families come up.

    If I ask "when do you plan on having a family?", am I a sexist?

    A yes or no answer will suffice.

    You're being presumptious to the point I'd find it nearly rude, yes; sexist, no.
    What's wrong with "do you plan on having a family?" ?


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    #78
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    awec wrote: »
    People assume men will become fathers. Of that there is no doubt.

    ????

    No doubt in your mind does not equate to no doubt in the world. It is not commonly assumed that men will become fathers in the same way it is commonly assumed that women will become mothers. People do not talk of men getting broody. Male oriented toys do not reflect fatherhood in the same way that female oriented toys reflect motherhood. It simply isnt comparable.


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    #79
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Any chance the mods could put this definition in the opening post?
    sex·ism
    /ˈsekˌsizəm/
    Noun
    Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.


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    #80
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    awec wrote: »
    So to clarify here.

    I am in a pub. I meet one of you. We are chatting. The subject of families come up.

    If I ask "when do you plan on having a family?", am I a sexist?

    A yes or no answer will suffice.

    IF you would ask that same question of a man as readily as of a woman then no. If you would only ask a woman then I would say yes.


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    #81
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Awec, did you see where I suggest you read the child bearing years thread. That might clarify for you why the family question can be considered sexist depending on context.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bluewolf wrote: »
    You're being presumptious to the point I'd find it nearly rude, yes; sexist, no.
    What's wrong with "do you plan on having a family?" ?

    It is horribly rude to ever ask someone about conception plans.
    Who knows what their personal situation is.


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    #83
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    What's sexist about "do you plan on having a family?".
    I've asked my gay friend that already. (He is planning).


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    #84
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Gotham wrote: »
    What's sexist about "do you plan on having a family?".

    Nobody said there's anything sexist about it.


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    #85
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Nobody said there's anything sexist about it.
    ->
    Whispered wrote: »
    That might clarify for you why the family question can be considered sexist depending on context.

    I don't really agree that the context thing counts if you can ask the same thing to gay couples.


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    #86
    newport2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭newport2


    Morag wrote: »
    Any chance the mods could put this definition in the opening post?
    Morag wrote: »
    sex·ism
    /ˈsekˌsizəm/
    Noun
    Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

    Is that definition of sexism not a bit sexist in itself?


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    #87
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Gotham wrote: »
    What's sexist about "do you plan on having a family?".
    I've asked my gay friend that already. (He is planning).

    Its not sexist, its inappropriate. There's many couples who don't want to have children who are backed into a corner with having to explain this when asked that question. There's couples who have fertility problems you don't know about. I never ask anyone that question, since we had a few problems getting pregnant ourselves I know how hurtful it can be. Couples might be going mad planning (and trying) to have a family, they don't need to be asked about it.


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    #88
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Asking "when do you plan on having a family?" is clearly very different from asking "do you plan on having a family?"


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    #89
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Gotham wrote: »
    ->


    I don't really agree that the context thing counts if you can ask the same thing to gay couples.

    That's an example of context...


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    #90
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Asking "when do you plan on having a family?" is clearly very different from asking "do you plan on having a family?"
    I understand the difference.
    I can still say the former to a gay friend, it's presumptuous and probably rude, but still not sexist.


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    #91
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    That's an example of context...

    If you arent being singled out for your sex (That is the only context required for sexism) then it is not sexism. You cant claim to be discriminated under the category of sexism if it can apply to people of either sex.

    Sure, you may be discriminated against, but that is some other stereotyping category.


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