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Dessie Ellis - The Sinn Fein TD who is linked to 50 murders

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    #32
    spikethedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭spikethedog


    Thankfully this country is moving further and further away from the dark times that were the troubles.
    Most people really aren't interested anymore, those times are to be confined to the history books.
    The only ones who keep bringing these things up are the one's that currently make up the government and their ever loyal supporters.
    Always with one eye on the next election, eh lads?
    Gilmore's still quite coy on his links during the early 70's though.


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    #33
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Dessie was in the Ra? I'm utterly shocked, it's not as if this was ever mentioned before.

    Briefly read an article on this today is the claim contained in a paper begging for his extradition? Has to be true of course.

    If the Brits had such convincing evidence then why didn't they charge him with fifty murders, they easily could have.

    Dessie is a sound man and has been an extremely hardworking public representative for years now. Everyone knows he was in the IRA.

    Anti republican indo rubbish. He has the right attitude not commenting on rubbish the Brits in the early eighties were saying, stuff they never backed up with anything when they easily could have and it would have served their interests to charge him too


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    #34
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    rainbowdash wrote: »
    He did comment, he said he couldn't be bothered with something the Brits said 30 years ago.
    Otherwise known as 'No Comment'.


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    #35
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    GRMA wrote: »
    Dessie is a sound man and has been an extremely hardworking public representative for years now
    A convicted terrorist now implicated in murder on a mass scale.
    We at least deserve some kind of explanation from him.


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    #36
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    dvpower wrote: »
    A convicted terrorist now implicated in murder on a mass scale.
    We at least deserve some kind of explanation from him.

    now... in 1981?


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    #37
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    dvpower wrote: »
    A convicted terrorist now implicated in murder on a mass scale..

    Conspiracy to commit murder is it?

    They can't even charge him with conspiracy to commit murder?


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    #38
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Cliste wrote: »
    now... in 1981?
    Fr. Dougal, the news is only released now. The alleged murders were in the past.


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    #39
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    dvpower wrote: »
    A convicted terrorist now implicated in murder on a mass scale.
    We at least deserve some kind of explanation from him.
    Whats there to explain? He was in the IRA and was jailed for it. This has been gone over loads of times.
    Now he is a public representative and has turned away from violence, isn't this what everyone wanted?


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    #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dvpower wrote: »
    A convicted terrorist now implicated in murder on a mass scale.
    We at least deserve some kind of explanation from him.


    Why? What explanation would satisfy you?


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    #41
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Chuck Stone wrote: »

    Conspiracy to commit murder is it?

    They can't even charge him with conspiracy to commit murder?
    You'd think they have tried him if he was responsible for so many killings wouldn't you?


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    #42
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Conspiracy to commit murder is it?

    They can't even charge him with conspiracy to commit murder?
    Nobody is talking about charging anybody with anything.
    Just looking for the truth of the matter. Is that not reasonable and understandable?


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    #43
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    GRMA wrote: »
    You'd think they have tried him if he was responsible for so many killings wouldn't you?

    The double standards that are directed towards SF (and Nationalists/Republicans in general) are quite astounding.


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    #44
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why? What explanation would satisfy you?
    I'd like to know if he was involved in any murders, and of so, what his involvement was?


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    #45
    spikethedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭spikethedog


    GRMA wrote: »
    Dessie was in the Ra? I'm utterly shocked, it's not as if this was ever mentioned before.

    Briefly read an article on this today is the claim contained in a paper begging for his extradition? Has to be true of course.

    If the Brits had such convincing evidence then why didn't they charge him with fifty murders, they easily could have.

    Dessie is a sound man and has been an extremely hardworking public representative for years now. Everyone knows he was in the IRA.

    Anti republican indo rubbish. He has the right attitude not commenting on rubbish the Brits in the early eighties were saying, stuff they never backed up with anything when they easily could have and it would have served their interests to charge him too

    I'm sure Enda will bring it up in the dail whenever they come back from their 4 week holiday.



    MaryLou: "We want to know why we were forced to take 4 weeks away from the dail when we could be dealing with the problems of the country?"

    Enda: "Dessie Ellis was in the IRA, na na na na na, where'd you put Jean? na na na na na"

    Ming: "Can Mr. Kenny just answer the question, the country is in dire trouble and you force a 4 week recess?"

    Enda: 'Would you look at what your wearing, Mr Flannagan, any of the wacky baccy over the Christmas?"

    Michael Martin: "Mr. Kenny, will you just answer the question, for God's sake"

    Enda: "You be quiet now, this is all your fault, ming's attire, Dessie Ellis's past, WW2, the sinking of the titanic.............I call a recess"


    Ah, the standard of political debate under Kenny and Gilmore, or Kilmore as they should be known, can only be described as juvenile.


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    #46
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'd like to know if he was involved in any murders, and of so, what his involvement was?

    O. And if he said that - for the sake of argument - only three of the 50 alleged operations in he was involved in were successful, you'd be satisfied with that and we'd never hear about it again?


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    #47
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'd like to know if he was involved in any murders, and of so, what his involvement was?

    This really is the essence of it. If someone is looking for your vote, it's a perfectly legitimate question.


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    #48
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    dvpower wrote: »
    Just looking for the truth of the matter. Is that not reasonable and understandable?

    Absolutely. I would be only too happy if all the truth about the conflict came out.

    I can assure you one thing though. It would be a hell of a lot more embarrassing for the British/Unionists than it would for Republicans. The current 'Cowboys and Indians' narrative still pretty much persists and that would be torn asunder by a T&RC.

    That's the principle reason why it won't happen imo.


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    #49
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Perhaps he's had a change of principles since the early 80's though?

    The early eighties were a troubled time in Irish history after all.

    People are allowed a change in their stance of principles aren't they?

    What evidence is there to suggest that Ellis has changed his principles? I have never heard him expressing regret for the actions he contributed to during the troubles. I am not even sure if I have ever heard him express remorse for the dozens of innocent people who died at the hands of the IRA, he certainly doesn't believe that the IRA did wrong by the looks of things. His 'I cant be bothered' remark in regards this latest allegations seems to indicate that much at least.


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    #50
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Nodin wrote: »
    O. And if he said that - for the sake of argument - only three of the 50 alleged operations in he was involved in were successful, you'd be satisfied with that and we'd never hear about it again?
    I'd like to know the full extent of any terrorist activities he may have been involved in. That's all.
    Obviously I couldn't say what the reaction might be to any information he was forthcoming with - but that's getting way into hypotheticals.

    I don't even want to see him charged and punished for any operations he might have been involved in (if he was). I just want the truth laid bare and people can make their own minds up. Personally, I think it would be better for SF if those who were involved in IRA activities would step aside, buts that up to the party and their electors to decide.


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    #51
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

    This really is the essence of it. If someone is looking for your vote, it's a perfectly legitimate question.
    He was in the IRA and jailed for a decade over explosives charges.

    I think it's safe to assume he was involved in fighting the war in the north and that he was involved directly or indirectly in carrying out attacks.

    This is all old news


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    #52
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    This really is the essence of it. If someone is looking for your vote, it's a perfectly legitimate question.

    Y'see I can fully understand your position, and caution in having someone who has historically been involved in terrorism in a position of power.

    However.

    As a country we have decided that we want to bring physical force nationalists into politics. (ie turn them into constitutional nationalists).

    This makes perfect sense all around.

    But it does mean that we have to accept that these nationalists have been previously involved in terrorism. Without acceptance of this fact there is no incentive for people like this to get into constitutional nationalism.

    As much as I dislike SF policies in the first place (I believe their budgetary figures as much as I believed Bertie :-\ ) I do have to say that they have brought Republicanism back into politics and away from the gun.


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    #53
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Dessie Ellis has never denied he was a senior member of the IRA so how is this front page headline news?
    He was extradited to Britain on foot of these charges in 1982 but acquitted in a British court.

    Its worthy of being reported but its hardly a headline. Unless of course the Indo are pushing an agenda at the behest of somebody with a vested interest?


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    #54
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Dont think anybody who was involved in in a war for whatever reason and is running for public office would feel they should be going around giving imformation on how man "kills" they had and rightly so.


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    #55
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tipptom wrote: »
    Dont think anybody who was involved in in a war for whatever reason and is running for public office would feel they should be going around giving imformation on how man "kills" they had and rightly so.
    They wouldn't want to be giving out this information because their electorate might take it into account when marking their ballot.


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    #56
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What evidence is there to suggest that Ellis has changed his principles? I have never heard him expressing regret for the actions he contributed to during the troubles. I am not even sure if I have ever heard him express remorse for the dozens of innocent people who died at the hands of the IRA, he certainly doesn't believe that the IRA did wrong by the looks of things. His 'I cant be bothered' remark in regards this latest allegations seems to indicate that much at least.

    Bearing in mind that these allegations were made by the very people the IRA were defending themselves against, I'd say he's quite within his rights to dismiss it, especially as they've not bothered to charge him for any of the alleged activities contained in the report.

    I would hazard a guess on where his principles now lie as the IRA as an army, have now disbanded, and embraced political means only would be a strong hint as to where Dessie stands on the matter.


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    #57
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    golfball37 wrote: »

    Its worthy of being reported but its hardly a headline.
    "Serving TD linked to 50 murders". Sounds like a headline to me.


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    #58
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    dvpower wrote: »
    They wouldn't want to be giving out this information because their electorate might take it into account when marking their ballot.
    In a lot of eletorates over the years,the higher the tally against the enemy meant more votes.


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    #59
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    dvpower wrote: »
    Nobody is talking about charging anybody with anything.
    Just looking for the truth of the matter. Is that not reasonable and understandable?
    I'm sure we would all like the truth behind some of the shenanigans that took place in Ireland in the 70's and 80's. I'm sure the British government have held back the documents that would embarrass them. When all the cards are on the table the game will be fair. Until that time, these releases are best ignored.


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    #60
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭golfball37


    dvpower wrote: »
    "Serving TD linked to 50 murders". Sounds like a headline to me.

    But he was tried for most of these crimes in a British court and acquitted making this allegation completely redundant imo. Why would the Indo not put that bit in for balance?

    Its newsworthy but not a headline unless you are promoting an agenda- in my opinion.


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    #61
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Cliste wrote: »
    Y'see I can fully understand your position, and caution in having someone who has historically been involved in terrorism in a position of power.

    However.

    As a country we have decided that we want to bring physical force nationalists into politics. (ie turn them into constitutional nationalists).

    This makes perfect sense all around.

    But it does mean that we have to accept that these nationalists have been previously involved in terrorism. Without acceptance of this fact there is no incentive for people like this to get into constitutional nationalism.

    I agree, the abandonment of violence is to be welcomed. All I'm saying is that it's a legitimate question for voters to ask what these people were involved in. So if someone is standing for election, isn't it only fair that they be forthcoming on whether they'd murdered someone, or been involved in any murders, or been involved in racketeering or whatever?

    I can accept that they may never be prosecuted for the sake of peace and reconciliation. I can accept that they may not even want to be specific, with regard to the names of victims etc, for fear of reprisals, I'd just like to see a little more honesty.


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