Dessie Ellis - The Sinn Fein TD who is linked to 50 murders

Dub.

Rascasse wrote: »

No I didn't say that. Read it again. He was convicted, in Ireland, of possession of radio controlled bomb detonators. As a profession he was a TV engineer (so knows a thing or two about electronics and radio receivers). And, it was widely reported at the time that he was wanted for Mountbattens assassination (e.g. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AY1VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uz8NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2933,55865&dq).

I'm not saying he pressed the button or made the bomb. I'm saying the evidence suggests he made the detonator the button triggered.

Man up. If you think he killed the child you should say so. All the rest of it is nonsense unless people actually say what they really mean.

oscarBravo

Dub. wrote: »

Believe what you want. There were plenty of French people who agreed with the occupation and believed that the Resistance were terrorists.

That's a pretty daft counterpoint, because France was self-evidently occupied by another country with which it was at war.

We all get to make our own mind up on these things.

That's convenient. So nothing's objectively true or false?

I would agree about Wales btw. That place has never been a country, and never will.

I'm sure the Welsh Nationalists would be thrilled to hear your view that they are English.

GRMA

Rascasse wrote: »

No I didn't say that. Read it again. He was convicted, in Ireland, of possession of radio controlled bomb detonators. As a profession he was a TV engineer (so knows a thing or two about electronics and radio receivers). And, it was widely reported at the time that he was wanted for Mountbattens assassination (e.g. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AY1VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uz8NAAAAIBAJ&pg=2933,55865&dq).

I'm not saying he pressed the button or made the bomb. I'm saying the evidence suggests he made the detonator the button triggered.

The TVs Dessie and the other employees of that company made weren't exactly renowned for quality, I hope his bombs functioned better lol

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's a pretty daft counterpoint, because France was self-evidently occupied by another country with which it was at war. That's convenient. So nothing's objectively true or false? I'm sure the Welsh Nationalists would be thrilled to hear your view that they are English.

Northern Ireland is a sick colonial society based on divide and rule.

SoulandForm

Dub. wrote: »

I would agree about Wales btw. That place has never been a country, and never will.

Yet Wales against all odds has held on to its language much more than Ireland or Scotland has.

Sinn Fein bows and scraps before the English Queen- the leader of PC refers to her as Mrs Windsor.

But yeah Wales isnt a country....

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm sure the Welsh Nationalists would be thrilled to hear your view that they are English.

Indeed; Yma O Hyd!

Lets remember in our prayers the welsh political prisoners.

Fe Gowdin ni eto!

oscarBravo

GRMA wrote: »

...I hope his bombs functioned better lol

You do, do you? Bombs are so funny. Ha ha.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a sick colonial society based on divide and rule.

I'll grant you sick, but it's not occupied (or a colony). It's (by definition) an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. A country can't occupy itself.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Lets remember in our prayers the welsh political prisoners.

Let's not. If Wales wants to be independent, it can pursue peaceful and democratic means of doing so. In the meantime, it's still not occupied.

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll grant you sick, but it's not occupied (or a colony). It's (by definition) an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. A country can't occupy itself.

Let's not. If Wales wants to be independent, it can pursue peaceful and democratic means of doing so. In the meantime, it's still not occupied.

R.S. Thomas supported the non-violent towards persons though illegal actions of Welsh patriots; Im not saying that I do, but you have to admit that if a someone of that caliber is supporting their actions you have to wonder? Wales should be one of the richest countries in Europe- instead its one of the poorest, with people in England with swelled bank accounts from Welsh coal, slate, etc.

Northern Ireland is a sick because of a policy of divide and rule which will continue in the medium term over a confused and divided working class- but there is always a chance of people catching themselves on. It cannot but be sick being a product of sectarian hysteria whipped to aid the interests of the British ruling class.

You can try to wash your hands of it- but it will keep coming back.

SoulandForm

The coming Roman Catholic majority limits the British ability to play the sectarian card, though it increases of the dangers of fascist "dissident" Loyalism, I think though or at least hope the next insurrection will be a lot cleaner of a battle without the tribal under current. Lets hope there can be a just and lasting peace without further violence- ultimately that is in the hands of the English establishment, the principle actor in the mess. If we give up on the dreams of Pearse and Connolly what right have we to call ourselves Irish men or even decent human beings?

howiya

oscarBravo wrote: »

...or you don't accept that Ireland was/is occupied any more than Wales is.

Sure maybe it was all a big misunderstanding. Lets invite them back :rolleyes:

spikethedog

howiya wrote: »

So his past must be irrelevant also then if we are to discount history

I've said it before.
Ask gilmore about his connections to the OIRA when he was in the workers party and the republican club in UCG......

flutered

spikethedog wrote: »

Enda will probably welcome them with open arms.
They're not running for election down here anytime soon, are they?
Wonder will Gilmore ask them how many bodies they have buried on the island?

gimme more would not try to embarress real terrorests, now would he.

sure joe

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well I think it is a bit late for an opinion on that as it happen nearly 100 years ago, but my main point would be the same.

In post-conflict, you are going to have members who played an instrumental part in violence and bloodshed. As we have seen in the North, families of the killed had to swallow their emotion, hate and shock, as murderers, bombers and terrorists were released under the Good Friday Agreement. This occurred on all sides.

This is one of the most noble mass consensuses ever achieved and a testament to the people of the North, to give a mandate which would allow the killers of their families and friends back on to the street, in a bid for peace. Perhaps political parties should have followed the same noble idea and respect by retiring all associated with such violence from public life in a bid to reduce any suffering from seeing murderers and terrorists in a paid political role rather then continually shoving their faces into political life.

you seem to be missing the fact that those responsible for a large number of murders never spent a minute of time in jail. Due to the fact that they were members of the security forces acting on behalf of sucessive british goverments.have these british politicans buried their heads in shame.

gallag

SoulandForm wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a sick colonial society based on divide and rule.

You must feel a wee bit silly, moving to this sick society and to a loyalist area no less.

Godge

SoulandForm wrote: »

If we give up on the dreams of Pearse and Connolly what right have we to call ourselves Irish men or even decent human beings?

Pearse and Connolly don't have any right to tell me what I have to do to be Irish.

They are dead men from 100 years ago, of little relevance to a modern society, their dreams are not dreams of mine and I consider myself to be a better Irish patriot than either of them.

sure joe

Godge wrote: »

Pearse and Connolly don't have any right to tell me what I have to do to be Irish.

They are dead men from 100 years ago, of little relevance to a modern society, their dreams are not dreams of mine and I consider myself to be a better Irish patriot than either of them.

in what way would you consider yourself a better patriot than 2 of irelands most recognised patriots. i really cant be the only one who would like to hear this

MadsL

howiya wrote: »

Sure maybe it was all a big misunderstanding. Lets invite them back :rolleyes:

In the same way they were invited in the first place

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

You must feel a wee bit silly, moving to this sick society and to a loyalist area no less.

I live now in the south and Im staying here.

RandomName2

SoulandForm wrote: »

The coming Roman Catholic majority limits the British ability to play the sectarian card, though it increases of the dangers of fascist "dissident" Loyalism, I think though or at least hope the next insurrection will be a lot cleaner of a battle without the tribal under current.

Well that's certainly a non-partisan, objective analysis.

SoulandForm wrote: »

If we give up on the dreams of Pearse and Connolly what right have we to call ourselves Irish men or even decent human beings?

The dream of freedom? We have freedom; why would one dream what is reality? Or do you mean the dreams of fire and blood, and a socialist Ireland?

Pearse and Connolly were products of their time, of ideas and thoughts that were promulgated at the turn of the twentieth century. They both believed passionately in their chosen paths, and made the ultimate sacrifice in their response to the wrongs that they perceived. But that does not necessarily make their dreams right, and certainly does not mean that such dreams are today relevant to men that walk the earth.

It is good for the world that such things should be done. The old heart of the earth needs to be warmed with the red wine of the battlefields. Such august homage was never before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives gladly given for love of country.

for instance, Pearse on WW1 (words which Connolly himself termed 'blithering idiocy')

RobFowl

Great to see how much we have moved on and away from petty tribal and sectarian politics....

This generation has apparently learned nothing from the past despite being able to pick atrocities at will to support whatever nonsense they espouse...

jazz101

With all the guff Charlie Flanagan is happy to throw Sinn Féin's way when his party's policies are criticised, you'd think it'd be fair game for them to throw the odd jibe about Oliver J.'s anti-semitism in there.