Grandouet

convert

Right, guys, can we please keep things civil. I'm pretty sure we'd all like to be able to post here for the rest of Cheltenham. Final warning: please remain civil and don't insult one another.

ft9

droidman123 wrote: »

If a horse is brought down,it could be considered as "unlucky".the fact that grandouet fell wasnt unlucky, it simply means the horse is a poor jumper.

droidman123 wrote: »

Omg i knew someone would come back with that.the difference is,kauto star was a proven class horse,gold cups,king georges,tingle creek etc etc.now seriously,be honest, no comparison? I think people are missing my point,all i am saying is,grandouet might prove to be a class animal in time,hooefully he will,the sport needs top class horses.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

:rolleyes: There's a difference between a hurdler and chaser. Also, in terms of all time great chasers, Kauto probably was a poor jumper. It was everything else that made him incredible

I'm not comparing, I'm simply proving that the statement in the first quote is ridiculous.

droidman123

ft9 wrote: »

I'm not comparing, I'm simply proving that the statement in the first quote is ridiculous.

Not so, I will explain what I meant.its not the fact that he fell in the ch that I think he is a poor jumper.its the fact that he has fallen I think twice,in such a relatively short career.if his jumping can't stand up,it doesn't bode well for the future,I honestly hope I am wrong and they get his jumping sorted out.

ft9

droidman123 wrote: »

Not so, I will explain what I meant.its not the fact that he fell in the ch that I think he is a poor jumper.its the fact that he has fallen I think twice,in such a relatively short career.if his jumping can't stand up,it doesn't bode well for the future,I honestly hope I am wrong and they get his jumping sorted out.

It is so. The statement you made was/is ridiculous. I get your pov now that you explained what you meant to say, but it is completely different than what you said originally.

I too hope jumping will not be an issue for him in the future, as I think he is a serious horse.

Huntley

Huntley wrote: »

No complaints but would have been interesting to see had he got around. Don't think he would have beaten the deserving winner however.

Need to look at the sectionals but on first glance I think they may have gone faster then last year, which ultimately led to the horses up front suffering in the end. HF never looked the winner until the bottom of the hill, a more sustained pace would have been more beneficial a la 2012. He definitely doesn't want that searing gallop though, struggled to race with it until they came back to him, which I suspect was a pace collapse from going too fast.

As I expected this was the case. Ferocious pace that ultimately collapsed.

A more sustained gallop like 2012 is the way to get Hurricane Fly beat, he just doesn't want that type of pace on decent ground around a track that doesn't show his attributes in the best light.

If only horse racing was automated.

SRFC

Huntley wrote: »

As I expected this was the case. Ferocious pace that ultimately collapsed.

A more sustained gallop like 2012 is the way to get Hurricane Fly beat, he just doesn't want that type of pace on decent ground around a track that doesn't show his attributes in the best light.

If only horse racing was automated.

The pace didnt beat him that day,he wasnt right as has been stated a 100 times.

hawkeyethenoo

SRFC wrote: »

The pace didnt beat him that day,he wasnt right as has been stated a 100 times.

you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

they went too fast this year and fell in a hole up front which allowed hurricane fly to get on terms. if they went a simlar gallop as last year he probably would have been beat again. what was wrong with him this year that he couldn't go the early pace. it must have looked like he wasnt right this year so

Huntley

SRFC wrote: »

The pace didnt beat him that day,he wasnt right as has been stated a 100 times.

I disagree, as I've stated before I think the horse probably ran no more than 2 - 3lbs below his best at most. The Hurricane Fly of 2011 or 2013 doesn't win the 2012 contest if it is run ten times over in my opinion. I recall telling you this before and guaranteeing that if he was to win this year it would be a slower run contest than 2012.

I couldn't definitively say it was the pace but neither can it be definitively rejected, unless a race is run in almost identical fashion. The variables of horse racing mean this is unlikely. As I said, if only horse racing was automated.

RichieLawlor

I think Huntley has a point. I was in the HF didn't run his race camp in 2012 but having seen him struggling in 5th place and jumping poorly this year I think there is merit to the argument.

He came back on the bit when the pace relented and was close enough to take advantage.

But then you must agree that the horse got a bad ride in 2012 because Ruby expected him to pick up like an aero plan which he couldn't do off that pace, this year he was kept closer, pushed closer, niggled to keep in contention. Something that wasn't done last year, thus lending weight to the bad ride argument

Slattsy

McCoy said in his column in the Guardian/Telegraph (not sure) last week that he felt both himself and Ruby were too far back in 2012.

SRFC

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

they went too fast this year and fell in a hole up front which allowed hurricane fly to get on terms. if they went a simlar gallop as last year he probably would have been beat again. what was wrong with him this year that he couldn't go the early pace. it must have looked like he wasnt right this year so

How many times do you need to be told he wasnt the same horse last year,Do you think he'd come under pressure to beat zaidpour like he did in punchestown if he was right? obviously wouldnt stevie wonder could see he wasnt right last year you keep telling your self other wise you're either a layer this year that got cleaned out laying him or done your dough on this henderson nag.

Huntley wrote: »

I disagree, as I've stated before I think the horse probably ran no more than 2 - 3lbs below his best at most. The Hurricane Fly of 2011 or 2013 doesn't win the 2012 contest if it is run ten times over in my opinion. I recall telling you this before and guaranteeing that if he was to win this year it would be a slower run contest than 2012.

I couldn't definitively say it was the pace but neither can it be definitively rejected, unless a race is run in almost identical fashion. The variables of horse racing mean this is unlikely. As I said, if only horse racing was automated.

THE HORSE WASNT RIGHT IN HIMSELF!


Blame the pace or whatever stupid excuse or you can blame ruby but im telling you he wasnt himself,If you think he was can you explain his run in punchestown? very poor run butchered to beat Zaidpour!


Doubters are going to keep hating but ill be counting my money still 2 champion hurdles in 3 years 15 grade ones :cool:

hawkeyethenoo

the horse wasn't right for a a few previous cheltenhams. and they didnt send him over. so why the **** would they send a horse that they knew wasnt right over?

didnt you say rock on ruby had no chance this year and last years was a fluke? well hurricane fly was "butchered" to beat him this year so it must have been a usless champion hurdle if rock on ruby was so close to him.:rolleyes:

faoile@n

I can't wait for Punchestown Hurricane Fly will absolutely destroy Grandouet and Rock and Ruby

While he was still good enough to win two champion hurdles I will concede that the course just doesn't play to his strengths.

Hopefully there's enough mugs willing to lay him and we might get a price in Punchestown

ste2010

Ah I'd say he will be over the top come punchestown

SRFC

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

the horse wasn't right for a a few previous cheltenhams. and they didnt send him over. so why the **** would they send a horse that they knew wasnt right over?

didnt you say rock on ruby had no chance this year and last years was a fluke? well hurricane fly was "butchered" to beat him this year so it must have been a usless champion hurdle if rock on ruby was so close to him.:rolleyes:

Yeah I said rock on ruby had no chance of winning it this year and did he? NO


He couldnt even lead HF long enough into the race he's that much inferior to him,It doubters like you who make the price and will continue to do,you keep laying him or backing Grandeout and you'll be broke while im in clover.

hawkeyethenoo

SRFC wrote: »

Yeah I said rock on ruby had no chance of winning it this year and did he? NO


He couldnt even lead HF long enough into the race he's that much inferior to him,It doubters like you who make the price and will continue to do,you keep laying him or backing Grandeout and you'll be broke while im in clover.

he clearly had a chance. you are talking through your hole.

im not a doubter i think hurricane fly is a fantastic horse and would never lay him im telling it like it is. if he does ever get beat again no doubt youll have an excuse lined up anyway.

SRFC

Wonder what the excuse's will be in Punchestown? Grandeout wouldnt beat Hurricane fly if he started now wouldnt even back him to get around tbh.

SRFC

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

he clearly had a chance. you are talking through your hole.

im not a doubter i think hurricane fly is a fantastic horse and would never lay him im telling it like it is. if he does ever get beat again no doubt youll have an excuse lined up anyway.

How am I talking through my hole? Hurricane fly absolutely destroyed him,couldnt even lead him until the last hurdle ruby was in front 2 furlongs too soon,


Sure ROR barely beat Zarkandar and Countrywide flame,two absolute slowboats but sure blame the blinkers on that.

Huntley

SRFC wrote: »

THE HORSE WASNT RIGHT IN HIMSELF!


Blame the pace or whatever stupid excuse or you can blame ruby but im telling you he wasnt himself,If you think he was can you explain his run in punchestown? very poor run butchered to beat Zaidpour!

Are you having comprehension issues or something because I am repeating myself now.

I have acknowledged that the horse had a compacted season and believe that he may not have run to the best of his ability in last years Champion. If that was the case I think it was within 2-3lbs of his true running.

The fact he had a tough race at Cheltenham probably took its tool and he ran somewhere around 7-8lbs below his best at Punchestown. His efforts at Punchestown and Cheltenham do not have to be synonymous by the way. I’ve said all this before.

A fully primed Hurricane Fly doesn’t ever win the 2012 contest in my mind. I don’t care if you do/don’t agree.

SRFC wrote: »

Doubters are going to keep hating but ill be counting my money still 2 champion hurdles in 3 years 15 grade ones :cool:

I'm not a doubter, nor am I 'hating'. You will need all the money you can get judging by how many horses you incorrectly disregard.

hawkeyethenoo

SRFC wrote: »

How am I talking through my hole? Hurricane fly absolutely destroyed him,couldnt even lead him until the last hurdle ruby was in front 2 furlongs too soon,


Sure ROR barely beat Zarkandar and Countrywide flame,two absolute slowboats but sure blame the blinkers on that.

if you think that was being destroyed i suggest you watch something else. as you say urself he was butchered to win. :rolleyes: ror destroyed hf in 2012 but you keep on blaming hurricane flys defeat in 2012 on him not being right.

SRFC

Huntley wrote: »

Are you having comprehension issues or something because I am repeating myself now.

I have acknowledged that the horse had a compacted season and believe that he may not have run to the best of his ability in last years Champion. If that was the case I think it was within 2-3lbs of his true running.

The fact he had a tough race at Cheltenham probably took its tool and he ran somewhere around 7-8lbs below his best at Punchestown. His efforts at Punchestown and Cheltenham do not have to be synonymous by the way. I’ve said all this before.

A fully primed Hurricane Fly doesn’t ever win the 2012 contest in my mind. I don’t care if you do/don’t agree.



I'm not a doubter, nor am I 'hating'. You will need all the money you can get judging by how many horses you incorrectly disregard.

No point in keep arguing we'll agree to disagree Im not wasting my time on history anymore,


Come Punchestown I can Guarantee he will be a lot more impressive than he was beating Zaidpour last year.

SRFC

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

if you think that was being destroyed i suggest you watch something else. as you say urself he was butchered to win. :rolleyes: ror destroyed hf in 2012 but you keep on blaming hurricane flys defeat in 2012 on him not being right.

He was in front a mile to soon as ruby has said,he had the champion hurdle won with 2 to jump ffs how easier do you want him to win never in doubt mate :cool:


Add to the fact it wasnt on his Ideal soft ground.

hawkeyethenoo

will you be backing him in next years champion hurdle all things going well?

kiers47

SRFC if he wasn't right can you explain probably 1 of his best performances to date in the Irish champion 2012?

While I am a HF fan I'm with Huntley I simply can't have this the horse wasn't right last year. And while it really might be the case that the horse wasn't right but there is no concrete evidence to support either fact so can it end and allow people to have their opinion!!!

SRFC

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

will you be backing him in next years champion hurdle all things going well?

Depending on how Our Conor progresses i'd probably say yeah I will be backing him even if he will be a 10yr old,nothing from this seasons can beat him so unless the new one or our conor look as good out of the novice ranks I wont have a problem lumping on again,horse owes me nothing or anyone else anyhows.

hawkeyethenoo

The new one clocked a serious fast speed coming up the hill. hope he goes for the aintree hurlde.

SRFC

kiers47 wrote: »

SRFC if he wasn't right can you explain probably 1 of his best performances to date in the Irish champion 2012?

While I am a HF fan I'm with Huntley I simply can't have this the horse wasn't right last year. And while it really might be the case that the horse wasn't right but there is no concrete evidence to support either fact so can it end and allow people to have their opinion!!!

Look at him butchered to beat Zaidpour in Punchestown I was there and I thought he was finished winning grade ones after that clearly wasnt on his best form.


He ran once before Cheltenham,do you think they purposely done that? no they didnt Mullins didnt have him right hence why he ran once as apposed to this season and the season he won it.

kiers47

Huntley wrote: »

You will need all the money you can get judging by how many horses you incorrectly disregard.

Slightly off topic but I was almost laughed at by this poster before Christmas for claiming our Conor could beat either of Mullins's triumph horses. So his form analysis has clearly to be taken with a pinch of salt.

kiers47

SRFC wrote: »

Look at him butchered to beat Zaidpour in Punchestown I was there and I thought he was finished winning grade ones after that clearly wasnt on his best form.


He ran once before Cheltenham,do you think they purposely done that? no they didnt Mullins didnt have him right hence why he ran once as apposed to this season and the season he won it.

You have completely ignored my question!!!

SRFC

kiers47 wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I was almost laughed at by this poster before Christmas for claiming our Conor could beat either of Mullins's triumph horses. So his form analysis has clearly to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Almost laughed at? that wasnt form analysis it was opinion on potential of juveniles ffs not grade one winners not jog on you've been made look silly.