Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

Birdie Num Num

If you asked most concerned Irish citizens for their views, I'd say they would differ greatly from the few that has the nerve to call themselves 'Concerned Irish Citizens'.

breffni666

seamus wrote: »

I'd have a bit of respect for the Quinn family if they hadn't tried to fnck the state over when everything went pear-shaped. Businesses fail, economies hit recession. He had created lots of jobs, putting a lot of people's kids through college.

But when things got hard the entire family seemed surprised that they would have to comply with Irish law and their illusion of being untouchable tycoons was spoiled. But rather than do it, they basically gave two fingers to the entire state and Peter Darragh Quinn still gives two fingers to the entire state.

That taints their entire history because it shows that when things get tough, they do whatever it takes to look after themselves. So they didn't create jobs and businesses out of some loyalty to Cavan or Ireland. They did it to make money, and they happily took those jobs away again to try and save their money. Anyone who supports the Quinns is doing so out of a misguided loyalty to capitalists who played the "we love our people" game, but were very quick to screw over "their people" when their own personal money was at stake.

They've played the Irish people for fools.

Excellent post, should have been read out at the rally to show these gob****es the fools they are!!

Biggins

Its hard to believe that there is so many deluded and conned people in Cavan - but the journal.ie pictures alone sadly prove it so!

trishasaffron

God I am so sickened by the Quinns and their flagrant "entitled" carry on. Its so sad that they manage to dupe otherwise upstanding members of the community to support these thieves.

Or perhaps their supporters aren't actually duped but are part of the Quinn's "golden circle" and are afraid of the consequences of not responding to the "call for support".

Sea Filly

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's not strange, you'll find people in Castlebar who won't hear a bad word about the Flynns

True, but believe me when I say you'll hear of a lot more people who having nothing but bad words to say about the Flynns.

brandon_flowers

The Quinn's were masters at the "You have nothing, we'll provide you with jobs. In turn you must think we are great no matter what end arrives" It takes a particularly ruthless type of person to play that character and Sean Quinn is that. He is a tight as a duck's arse. He sponsored ***K all from what I ever saw and rarely parted with any of his money unless it was completely for his own gain. Most Irish business people tend not to ***k around with mass amounts of Irish employees like that. (McManus, Magnier, O'Leary, Desmond etc)

You must remember that for a lot of these people Quinn was all they had and they are not well educated or well read enough to know any better. It is easy for us to judge these people. However the ones who bemuse me are the educated ones like O'Rourke and Harte who should know better.

Quinn was a ruthless business man and is now a ruthless criminal. He lost the run of himself completely and this "Sure I'm only a lorry driver from Derrylin" bullcrap is just sickening now. He knew exactly what he was doing and he made a balls of it.

kraggy

biko wrote: »

R0ot wrote: »

So the main argument here seems to be "ah sure he did so much good, so we can't blame him for doing something bad."

Yeah .... ok...

He fikshd the road!

Fyp

Mardy Bum

Biggins wrote: »

Its hard to believe that there is so many deluded and conned people in Cavan - but the journal.ie pictures alone sadly prove it so!

It was local people in the local area. If it was not for him the town would still be an economic black spot with long term unemployment and very little recreational amenities. Human beings are for the most part worried about their immediate locality rather than the universal picture. Quinn for them people was verging on a god status for what he did to the area. This alone is enough to blind people and fool themselves into believing he is correct in his actions. Sure doesnt most of the country believe in a god of some sort blindly and this fella actually made a massive immediate difference in their lives so I can understand their desire to protect him.

Obviously Quinn is fully in the wrong and it doesnt make it right but there are many sides to a story.

artvandelay48

Hardonraging wrote: »

I for one dont blame him and his family for attempting to save there business...

If you don't know the difference between attempting to save your business and ILLEGALLY finding ways to keep money for yourself and your family at the expense of the state and your creditors, then I despair of you

Biggins

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It was local people in the local area. If it was not for him the town would still be an economic black spot with long term unemployment and very little recreational amenities. Human beings are for the most part worried about their immediate locality rather than the universal picture. Quinn for them people was verging on a god status for what he did to the area. This alone is enough to blind people and fool themselves into believing he is correct in his actions. Sure doesnt most of the country believe in a god of some sort blindly and this fella actually made a massive immediate difference in their lives so I can understand their desire to protect him.

Obviously Quinn is fully in the wrong and it doesnt make it right but there are many sides to a story.

I understand that he did some local good - so did Mr Ahern, so did Charles Haughty, and many more...

...That does not give them a "get out of jail" card or not for being answerable for their antics which as an after-effect will be costing the state (you and I) a Billion Euro, besides the huge loss of jobs they have brought about too!

Mardy Bum

Biggins wrote: »

I understand that he did some local good - so did Mr Ahern, so did Charles Haughty, and many more...

...That does not give them a "get out of jail" card or not for being answerable for their antics which as an after-effect will be costing the state (you and I) a Billion Euro, besides the huge loss of jobs they have brought about too!

Quinn did a lot more than all them put together. I am not trying to justify Quinns antics I am trying to emphasise the mind set of the local people.

seamus

It's a rather bizarre weird human thing that we do. People think that Quinn was great for the people of Cavan. And sure, he was. But he didn't do it for Cavan. He did it for himself and his family. His goal wasn't to create jobs in Cavan. His goal was to make more money. Jobs were just a means to that end.

Sean Quinn didn't put Cavan on the map. Cavan put Sean Quinn on the map. He should be out there "supporting" the people who made him his fortune. But instead the people who made him rich are out there "supporting" him, even though he has abandoned them and practically given them all the finger.

Now that you mention it, "Godlike" is probably an apt way to describe such a defunctional relationship.

HellFireClub

Hardonraging wrote: »

Just to throw a tool in the works, i know a lot of people are hating on sean and the boy's but he did create a serious amount of job's in that region, and has always keep those job's there, unlike other companies like Dell etc who pulled out once the Gov stopped offering them tax breaks and incentives to stay ...

I for one dont blame him and his family for attempting to save there business...

I feel like putting my fist through the PC screen here reading this. Sean Quinn didn't employ people for any reason other than that he had identified a demand for a product, (or a series of products, be it cement, glass, radiators, insurance, whatever), and he had to employ people to carry out key activities that needed to be carried out, in order for these products to be put together, sold and paid for.

He didn't hire anyone out of some kind of stupid sense of national responsibility, like every entrepreneur, he hired people to carry out functions that he needed to be carried out, so that he could make a profit.

That's how capitalism works, you identify a demand, you bring in (usually paid resources), to deliver the product, and then you get paid for it, and you repeat that process.

By doing this, Sean Quinn made a phenomenal amount of money. It wasn't about hiring people or creating jobs, it was about working within the capitalist model to create a profit for himself and his family.

There is nothing wrong with that, people up and down the country are doing this (with some considerable difficulty) at the moment.

Sean Quinn was happy to engage in the capitalist process for as long as it was making him serious money, but it appears to me, that now that he has made an extremely poor decision in relation to his entrepreneurial investment portfolio, he somehow expects that the well understood rules of capitalism should be suspended and that the assets that he VOLUNTARILY put up to secure the loan that he look out to buy Anglo shares, should be just disregarded as the security that it is, and casually left with him?!?!?

This guy and his crowd of deluded supporters need to sit down and have a reality check. He made a chronically poor investment decision, he made a bad punt, he secured his borrowings with assets and the dogs on the street know what happens to your assets if you secure a loan with assets and you can't repay the loan.

This fúckwhackery up in Cavan needs to be confronted for the pathethic gombeen madness that it clearly is. If the same thousand or so people who support the Quinn family were as quick to get up off their fat lazy arses to create employment for themselves, instead of whinging and moaning about the lack of job creation in their community, blaming it on everyone from both governments to "them down in Dublin", then maybe the country would be a better place at the moment.

Biggins

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Quinn did a lot more than all them put together. I am not trying to justify Quinns antics I am trying to emphasise the mind set of the local people.

Amounts on sides don't matter.

Mr X did more than MR Y - so he should be treated differently!

(I'm not espousing your saying that - some plonkers in Cavan appear to be)

...Its no wonder that gombeenism is still alive in Ireland with thicko's sadly in Cavan willing to carry on the stupid tradition!

HellFireClub

I personally want to ask for a round of applause for Sean Quinn and his family, fair play to you for creating all those jobs.

Now, the taxpayer has had to step in to cover your borrowings amounting to billions of Euro, this has nothing to do with us, you secured your loan with collateral which has now been called in, in accordance with the law. Please stop trying to hide the assets and screw the Irish taxpayers of hundreds of millions of Euro, we have little enough money as it is at the moment without having to backstop your financial losses into the future in this manner.

HellFireClub

What I'm seeing in the media at the moment in relation to the Quinn saga, the latest being his ridiculous support march last night, it's like something out of a cult. There is almost an Amish community type mindset now operating around this family of debtors, where the deluded mantra is now being accepted by the masses of supporters.

Biggins

Good job Quinn didn't operate in Iran!

Iran to execute four people convicted over major bank fraud

http://www.thejournal.ie/iran-to-execute-four-men-convicted-over-major-bank-fraud-538176-Jul2012/

A TEHRAN COURT has sentenced to death four people convicted in Iran’s biggest-ever banking scandal, according to the national chief prosecutor on Monday, quoted by the official news agency IRNA.
The sentences came at the end of a trial of 39 suspects that started in February. The magnitude of the scandal was estimated at 2.11€ billion when it came to light in September last year.

Its ok, Quinn is only costing the state one billion.

Ash.J.Williams

I wonder was peter Quinns gaa presidency campaign helped by corruption

Guy:Incognito

seamus wrote: »

I'd have a bit of respect for the Quinn family if they hadn't tried to fnck the state over when everything went pear-shaped. Businesses fail, economies hit recession. He had created lots of jobs, putting a lot of people's kids through college.
.

Businesses fail, yes, but his business shouldnt have been running in the first place. He cheated by not obeying the rules others had to follow.He ran the company recklessly.

foxyboxer

mikemac1 wrote: »

The man seems to be a God up there

It's not strange, you'll find people in Castlebar who won't hear a bad word about the Flynns

And Michael 'Top the Poll' Lowry in Tipp

foxyboxer

What the supporters at the rally feel they owe to the Quinns is far outweighed by what they owe their own country.

BigBrownBear

Shocking stuff alright seeing so many support this man.
Just a quick query....Whats 'gombeenism':o
Thanks in advance

wes

I guess some people just don't know any better. The Quinn's should be pursued to the full extent of the law imho.

lazygal

So, was anyone actually AT the rally?

Biggins

BigBrownBear wrote: »

Shocking stuff alright seeing so many support this man.
Just a quick query....Whats 'gombeenism':o
Thanks in advance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombeen_man

...More generally, "gombeen" is now an adjective referring to all kinds of underhand or corrupt activities and to the mindset possessed by those engaged in such activities. In Irish politics, it is used to condemn an opponent for dishonesty or corruption, although its definition has become less precise with time and usage and it can also imply pettiness and close-mindedness. Alternative modern parlance for a gombeen man is someone "on the make". It is also used to describe certain Independent politicians who are seen to prioritize their constituents needs, no matter how trivial, over national interests.

Anro

Before to many of you embaress yourselves by not knowing what your talking about, perhaps you would like to read about why the rally was held?

[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]ANGLO IRISH BANK/IBRC : CORRUPTION & COVER-UP[/FONT]

[/FONT]
The former Anglo Irish Bank, now renamed IBRC, is involved in a COVER-UP designed to protect the bank from legitimate claims arising out

of the fraud committed by its senior executives. The facts are:


Σ


Anglo Irish Bank’s management committed fraud by [FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]lending to customers to support its own share price, in order to boost their bonuses and[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]the value of their share options[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]


[/FONT]; that is a criminal offence;

Σ


Anglo Irish Bank’s management committed fraud by [FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]overstating the bank’s profits and fiddling its Balance Sheet over several years[/FONT][/FONT]; that is

corruption;


Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Shareholders were never made aware that the profits were overstated[/FONT][/FONT]; that is illegal;

Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]They used the Quinn Family, the Maple 10 and several others to invest in the bank, without telling them the truth – these people were innocent[/FONT][/FONT];

corruption again;


Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]In 2007 and 2008 as the share price fell they paid for Quinn’s CFDs margin calls to prevent the shares coming on the market by pumping in [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Ä[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]2.3bn[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]over a 10 month period[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]


[/FONT]; more corruption;

Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Months later Anglo changed/put in place loan documents which said that the money was for working capital and not shares. They got the Quinn[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Family to sign pledges over the Quinn Group to make it look right – but none of the money was spent on anything other than share support[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]


[/FONT]; coverup;

Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Later still; the new board of Anglo tried to get the Quinn Family to backdate confirmation that they had received legal advice when they signed the[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]share pledges, months previously. This was not true but was attempted after the bank was nationalised and under the direction of the current board[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]


[/FONT];

that is illegal;


Σ


The money was advanced by Anglo, which was a commercial bank, but it was only when Anglo was nationalised, through a decision

of the Government, that it became a taxpayer liability. When this happened the Quinn family offered to repay all monies advanced

within 7-10 years without disputing it; Anglo and the Government refused; instead they seized the Quinn Group and sold the

Insurance for


Ä1.
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]ANGLO COMMITTED FRAUD; THE QUINNS WERE SENTENCED TO JAIL. WHY?[/FONT]

[/FONT]
Because there is an agenda to make the Quinns and other Investors take the blame and allow payment of the Foreign Bondholders.

[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]CORRUPTION IN IRELAND, SUPPORTED BY THE MEDIA – THE FACTS[/FONT]

[/FONT]
Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Quinn Insurance was put into Administration on a wrong analysis of the effect of cross-guarantees between Quinn Insurance and the Quinn Group[/FONT][/FONT]; This

has now been independently confirmed.


Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]The alleged [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]€[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]2.8 billion claimed by Anglo has never been proved in court; but a court has already judged that some of it, at least, is unlikely be valid[/FONT][/FONT].

Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]It makes no allowance for the huge value of the businesses Anglo has already seized[/FONT][/FONT];

Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]The seizing of the companies and the ongoing court cases are designed to make the Quinns bankrupt, so that they won’t be able sue IBRC/Anglo [/FONT][/FONT]– THAT

IS AN INFRINGEMENT OF BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS;


Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]When the Quinns tried to purge their contempt, despite numerous attempts, IBRC Refused To Speak To Them or Meet Them in an attempt to persuade the[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]court that the Quinns were not co-operating;[/FONT]

[/FONT]
Σ


[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold][FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]Anglo/IBRC are selling Quinn assets below their value, even though they may have no valid call on them and that case has not been determined by a court[/FONT][/FONT].

THERE IS A CONSPIRACY: It protects the vested interests of foreign bondholders and covers up the lack of regulation

of the Government and the corrupt activity of the bank. They Are Using the Quinns as Scapegoats.
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]
[FONT=NimbusSanT-ReguCond,Bold]THIS IS YOUR COUNTRY; THERE SHOULD BE NO GULAGS IN IRELAND; FREE SEAN QUINN.[/FONT]

[/FONT]

pdf file attached.

Guy:Incognito

Anro wrote: »

Before to many of you embaress yourselves by not knowing what your talking about, perhaps you would like to read about why the rally was held?

Whats that got to do with the fact Sean Quinn broke th erules and recklessly ran his company? Then tried to move all his money to family members so the peopel he owed couldnt get their money.

Who says the people borrowing money from the bank to buy shares (wrong in itself) didnt know full well what the profits were? Sean Quinn?

Heroditas

Oh so it's fraud for Anglo to lend money to the Quinns so they can buy Anglo shares but it's OK for them to buy the shares?
The poor Quinns. I'm sure they had a gun held to their head forcing them to buy those shares.

Miss Lockhart

It's the people at this rally who are what's wrong with this country. There will always be mega-rich criminals and corrupt politicians trying to rip us off but it's people like them that mean it will never change.

Anro

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whats that got to do with the fact Sean Quinn broke th erules and recklessly ran his company?

What does that have to do with the rally?
I'm sick and tired of misinformed people hopping on the hate bandwagon based on what they hear and read in the bias and propaganda driven media.

Also what do you mean exactly by "he recklessly ran his company." I see you repeating the phrase multiple times without elaboration.
Perhaps you mean he built his company from the ground, literally. He started with a shovel and in 40 odd years he built a multi-million euro enterprise employing thousands throughout Ireland. In which case "recklessly" has the opposite meaning of the word you are looking for.