Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

the groutch

I'm reserving judgement until we are told exactly how they are calculating it, and how they are collecting it.
IF it were an equitable tax (unlike the flat household charge) I might consider paying it, but that is a very big IF.
how it's calculated in relation to apartments will be pivotal in the overall acceptance or rejection of the tax imo.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Thank you. And I also said that the average would be around €1000. I will now switch to a different currency symbol. If you live in the Newry area and your house is valued at £150000 you would pay £1056 in property tax. It can be calculated easily for any area in Northern Ireland using the tables here:


http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/domestic-rate-poundages-2012-to-2013.htm

Properties worth well less than half a million (Pounds) would easily pay £2500 or more in property tax in Northern Ireland. And for those people contemplating moving abroad to escape property taxes here you will have to look pretty hard to find a country with no property taxes. As I said it is something we will get used to like the rest of the world and people running up arrears by not paying are just making life more difficult for themselves in the long run.

Will you at least acknowledge the array of services people I the six counties receive for paying any amount for gods sake DX?


You say 'on average they pay around €1000' you don't say they get way more services than we'll get for our money.

(hint, we'll get none)

Ulysses Gaze

This is just taking more money out of people's pockets that could be used in the for purchases in the real economy thus creating jobs.

Why not just cut the likes of Rent Relief and SW Rent Allowance payments in half or more?

It will collapse rents in Ireland giving people more money to spend in the real economy?

Flex

Ghandee wrote: »

Will you at least acknowledge the array of services people I the six counties receive for paying any amount for gods sake DX?


You say 'on average they pay around €1000' you don't say they get way more services than we'll get for our money.

(hint, we'll get none)

/Sigh

Ghandee, I explained why youre wrong when you go on with the whole "We get nothing for this tax" in the other thread. Honestly dont know how I couldve made it any clearer for you. We have to pay more in tax because what we pay now doesnt cover the cost of services and welfare we're receiving.

Also, how much would people in NI have to pay in rates each year if it wasnt for the multi-billion pound subvention they get from the UK exchequer every year?

I dont think anybody in the country actually 'wants' to pay more in taxes, regardless of what kind of taxes they are, but the fact of the matter is that we have to, and we more than likely will have to accept cuts in services and welfare at the same time.

ilovesleep

Flex wrote: »

/Sigh

Ghandee, I explained why youre wrong when you go on with the whole "We get nothing for this tax" in the other thread. Honestly dont know how I couldve made it any clearer for you. We have to pay more in tax because what we pay now doesnt cover the cost of services and welfare we're receiving.

Also, how much would people in NI have to pay in rates each year if it wasnt for the multi-billion pound subvention they get from the UK exchequer every year?

I dont think anybody in the country actually 'wants' to pay more in taxes, regardless of what kind of taxes they are, but the fact of the matter is that we have to, and we more than likely will have to accept cuts in services and welfare at the same time.

And cuts to PS salaries? Or is the PS too precious to touch?

Ghandee

Flex wrote: »

/Sigh

Ghandee, I explained why youre wrong when you go on with the whole "We get nothing for this tax" in the other thread. Honestly dont know how I couldve made it any clearer for you. We have to pay more in tax because what we pay now doesnt cover the cost of services and welfare we're receiving.

We have been told for years that we pay for refuse collection, GPs and hospital fees, emergency service call out charges, education, and tolled roads separate/on top of income tax to cover these costs. (because what we paid in tax did not cover them)

So once again, I'll ask you are these charges going to disappear now seeing as, you know, that's what this tax will go towards?

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Will you at least acknowledge the array of services people I the six counties receive for paying any amount for gods sake DX?


You say 'on average they pay around €1000' you don't say they get way more services than we'll get for our money.

(hint, we'll get none)

Do people in Northern Ireland decide that if some of these services are not being delivered to their satisfaction that they will not pay their property tax. Do they put polls up on the internet asking are your going to pay your taxes or are you going to break the law?

A lot of people in Northern Ireland were less than happy with how the big freeze was handled but I don't see any political party there campaiging for the abolition of property tax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/30/northern-ireland-water-crisis-stormont-neglect

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

Will you at least acknowledge the array of services people I the six counties receive for paying any amount for gods sake DX?


You say 'on average they pay around €1000' you don't say they get way more services than we'll get for our money.

(hint, we'll get none)

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Do people in Northern Ireland decide that if some of these services are not being delivered to their satisfaction that they will not pay their property tax. Do they put polls up on the internet asking are your going to pay your taxes or are you going to break the law?

A lot of people in Northern Ireland were less than happy with how the big freeze was handled but I don't see any political party there campaiging for the abolition of property tax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/30/northern-ireland-water-crisis-stormont-neglect

That will be a no then.

flutered

mishkalucy wrote: »

100% agreement

I know of a person who is not too far off from retirement age(a couple of years).

They had a stoke a few years ago and have been in receipt of DA.

They have been called up for "review" of their payment.

I find that shocking, this is an elderly person who has a serious disabillity and are being put through this??
Do they think that strokes and all the disability that come with it just magically disappear because "ve nid tu cut ze dolle"?

but for that to happen the person who deciedes to have him tested is out of a job, the specially trained person who examines him is out of a job, the postage cost is lost, he becomes upset and anxious, he needs medical advice, that is lost, he needs more medication, that is lost, whoever provides this has less to do,he can remain on the disibility benifit, someone has to send that letter, he is imformed that he is able to return to work, heis then imformed that he can appeal this, the person who does the retest would be out of work, the cost of the fuel used to achive all, the loss of vat to the goverment, this he is told do you not realise all this is for the greater good, especially of the civil service, they have jobs to be kept in, so that they have money to spend, vat to pay, tax to pay, familys to raise, come on, this poor guy is earning the country a fortune, if he was left alone he would be worthless to the state, just bleeding it dry.

Lantus

There is an unsustainable gap between the money the state gets in and what it is currently paying out.

Raising tax is one way the government is trying to bridge that gap.

The other way is that we just decide which hospitals, schools and other services we would like to do without. easy.

That is bare faced reality of it.

In amongst that there is an inefficient and bloated state system that is hugely unaccountable and to which people have no direct say.

All tax should be accounted for and spent at a local level, local coco's abolished (32 state run companies that are accountable to no one and all duplicate services.)

The people should be able to vote and approve service spends. If they want less tax they should be able to vote on service reductions accordingley and get what they want.

Fupping Grasshole

You won't see me bending over for the fat cats anytime soon. Although I think my ear drums are beginning to bleed from the whining of the ones who registered for this anal probe.

Duggys Housemate

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

You won't see me bending over for the fat cats anytime soon. Although I think my ear drums are beginning to bleed from the whining of the ones who registered for this anal probe.

Not registering for this is like not registering for other taxes. It will just accumulate.

stovelid

I can technically afford to pay it but I doubt I'll see much return for it.

Plus, like many others, I already pay a large annual service charge on the estate in which I live because the local authorities passed the buck on managing the estate instead trusting the stupid and flawed management company model which will no doubt collapse in the coming years anyway.

Personally, I resent paying a private service charge as I end up footing the service costs of lazy, tight bastards on the estate who won't pay their fair share. but on principle I wouldn't mind paying some kind of council tax or rates that paid for local services, waste management and so on. If that's what it was used for, of course.

Fupping Grasshole

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Not registering for this is like not registering for other taxes. It will just accumulate.

Thanks for stating the obvious, I've fight in me though, me and my kind against the fat cats :cool:

goose2005

Taxing assets is far better for the economy than taxing income.

Duggys Housemate

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

Thanks for stating the obvious, I've fight in me though, me and my kind against the fat cats :cool:

You and other tax evaders against the rest.

dxhound2005

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

Thanks for stating the obvious, I've fight in me though, me and my kind against the fat cats :cool:

Evidence is starting to come in that people selling houses have to pay the Household Charge and NPPR if applicable before the sale can go through.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=167397

Hi
I have recently sold my house, sale closed about a fortnight ago. I could not close the sale without paying the household charge. The solicitor put it into contract that I would pay the charge but that the buyer would refund 75% of it as she will own the house for the remainder of the year but she would not agree so essentially I had to pay it.

I think it is whoever owns the house on the 1st January that is liabale for the charge


CAHWT never mention this in their campaign. And it also applies to houses being transferred on the death of the owner. Good luck with your fight when you or your descendants come up against conveyancing lawyers.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

You say 'on average they pay around €1000' you don't say they get way more services than we'll get for our money.

(hint, we'll get none)

None - except all the services you do get.

Can we please move on from out-and-out lies regarding local authority services? Are they up to the standard of the UK? No they are not. Is taxation higher in the UK? Yes it is.

daenerysstormborn3

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Evidence is starting to come in that people selling houses have to pay the Household Charge and NPPR if applicable before the sale can go through.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=167397

Hi
I have recently sold my house, sale closed about a fortnight ago. I could not close the sale without paying the household charge. The solicitor put it into contract that I would pay the charge but that the buyer would refund 75% of it as she will own the house for the remainder of the year but she would not agree so essentially I had to pay it.

I think it is whoever owns the house on the 1st January that is liabale for the charge


CAHWT never mention this in their campaign. And it also applies to houses being transferred on the death of the owner. Good luck with your fight when you or your descendants come up against conveyancing lawyers.

Various Bar Associations around the country advised of this long before the closing date to register for the charge.

I won't pay until I receive a bill demanding payment, then I pay it over the yeas if I'm able to afford it! :mad:

bbam

goose2005 wrote: »

Taxing assets is far better for the economy than taxing income.

Why?
If I have assets but My income has dried up I can't afford to pay. If I have income then the government will take a slice no bother. Who values the asset? Another quango?

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

None - except all the services you do get.

Can we please move on from out-and-out lies regarding local authority services? Are they up to the standard of the UK? No thay are not. Is taxation higher in the UK? Yes it is.

Thanks for clearing that up so. You've just persuaded a lot more people not to pay this tax either.

I'll ask again on this thread Alastair.

Name me one service the local authority provide me with, that I'm not currently paying for?

Just the one will do.

And if you (predictably) say we're not paying enough through income tax, vat etc, how then does that explain how we've been paying separately for these services for years because of that very reason?

So to sum it up, pay your vat, paye etc for services, the ones that aren't currently covered by this tax intake will be paid for separately (refuse, education, health, emergency services.

But hang on now, were STILL not paying enough, so now we must pay :

Higher vat rate
Income tax
Separately for services listed above
Property tax (averaging a grand) to cover the services were already contributing to via tax, and what t he tax doesn't cover wee pay ourselves, but now pay a property tax to also pay for services.

Paying for the same thing not once, not twice, but three times

Not this time buddy, something's gotta give, this tax seems to be the final straw.

mitosis

Do they reckon the average the way they reckoned the average PS pay? Take the highest and the lowest and apply the median as average? In that case I'll be paying about €150.00 per year, so no problem.

Casillas

Blood and stone comes to mind, there is a significant portion of the population that cannot afford to pay.

What will the Government do with a large number of genuine hardship cases?

It is a bad revenue raising exercise that only serves to incense the populace. This administration knows nothing about taking the path of least resistance.

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up so. You've just persuaded a lot more people not to pay this tax either.

I'll ask again on this thread Alastair.

Name me one service the local authority provide me with, that I'm not currently paying for?

Just the one will do.

I'll do that as soon as you point to one local authority service in the UK, that isn't already being paid for through general taxation (ie: aside from any council taxes or rates).

Because you know what - taxpayers in the UK don't cover local authority services through general taxation - and nor do we.

alastair

Casillas wrote: »

Blood and stone comes to mind, there is a significant portion of the population that cannot afford to pay.

Lets wait and see what ability-to-pay mechanisms or exemptions are applied. Keep this in mind though - salaries in the UK are in the same ballpark as here, taxation is higher, and yet they can afford to pay council tax - at rates above what's being discussed for here. It might not be much fun, but most people can afford this if they have to pay - and have no doubt - we will have to pay.

ilovesleep

alastair wrote: »

Lets wait and see what ability-to-pay mechanisms or exemptions are applied. Keep this in mind though - salaries in the UK are in the same ballpark as here, taxation is higher, and yet they can afford to pay council tax - at rates above what's being discussed for here. It might not be much fun, but most people can afford this if they have to pay - and have no doubt - we will have to pay.

The UK has the NHS/free healthcare
Also free childcare
They also have the opting out from their tv license. They could have a tv used for example dvds or gaming. They also have two rates for the tv license 1) colour 2) black and white (cheaper).
They get refuse and other services for their council tax.
Medicines and foods are cheaper.

Sappa

Anyone whose joint income in a household is over 80000 should pay the highest charge and work back on a sliding scale per 10k minus 100 off the charge,if your income goes down you pay less or vice versa,
This charge should have no exceptions by the way those who own a house and are claiming social welfare have to contribute something as well.
Travelers need to be hit with a charge for halting sites as they can't dodge every levy and get every service for free.

alastair

ilovesleep wrote: »

The UK has the NHS/free healthcare
Also free childcare
They also have the opting out from their tv license. They could have a tv used for example dvds or gaming. They also have two rates for the tv license 1) colour 2) black and white (cheaper).
They get refuse and other services for their council tax.
Medicines and foods are cheaper.

You really think a b/w tv license is a bonus? They only exempt the same devices as would be exempt here - anything with a tv tuner is liable.

Childcare costs: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/may/21/child-care-costs-compared-britain

And again - they get better services, but they pay more in taxation for them:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Tax_revenue_statistics

phil1nj

alastair wrote: »

Lets wait and see what ability-to-pay mechanisms or exemptions are applied. Keep this in mind though - salaries in the UK are in the same ballpark as here, taxation is higher, and yet they can afford to pay council tax - at rates above what's being discussed for here. It might not be much fun, but most people can afford this if they have to pay - and have no doubt - we will have to pay.

Salaries may be in the same ballpark but the cost of living definitely isn't. This is bourne out by advertisements that permeate the airwaves from the UK channels for the various supermarket chains and service providers that operate in the UK mainland and Northern Ireland. All in all, if salaries are the same but goods and services cost less then there is more for people to spend and/or be taxed on. That is not the case here where everything costs 2x what it does everywhere else (with the exception of fuel but that is balanced out by higher motor tax and VRT costs).