Upcoming Irish property tax to cost 'on average' €1000 per house.(can you afford it?)

Ghandee

Just read this article online, and tbh its quite disturbing reading.

Daniel McConnell reports that on average, each Irish household will be forced to pay in the region of one thousand euro per house, which let's face it, unless your on seriously good money, to suddenly have one thousand euro suddenly taken from your disposable income will be pretty tough going.

I personally do not agree with this charge/tax for various reasons, main one being (obviously) having already suffered salary reductions, rising cost (don't even mention the USC charge), but also,

We're already indirectly paying for LA services via income tax, vat etc, and it would be suggested that this impending tax will bridge the gap where LA services are not covered by these taxes.


However, that's the reason we currently pay for various services like refuse collection, education fees (plus school lunches and transport) doctors fees health care fees, extortionate motor tax, crippling fuel tax (which has vat added to that) tolls on the roads also.

This incoming tax has been compared to the rates system in the north, or the council tax system in the UK, but this simply is not true. (all the things outlined above are included with rates/council tax at no extra cost)

Can you afford to pay €1,000 a year in a property tax? Well, according to the man charged with designing such a tax, that is what we will, on average, all pay once it is introduced. Don Thornhill, a career civil servant who describes himself now as a consultant "who advises on strategy and policy to a number of leading Irish organisations" has recently presented his report to Minister Phil Hogan recommending how such a property tax should work. Politically toxic and highly unpopular, the lack of enthusiasm of either Fine Gael or Labour to discuss the matter is a clear sign of the trepidation that surrounds the idea of lumping the extra burden on the shoulders of the Irish taxpayer, but in particular the "squeezed middle classes". Phil Hogan's department is saying nothing other than they have received the report and will consider it. Even Thornhill himself declined to comment on the matter when asked. So what is going on? The Government, clearly spooked by the €100 Household Charge debacle earlier this year, is caught in a dilemma. Unwilling to increase income taxes, as promised in the Programme for Government, its options are limited and Thornhill has long argued that common sense dictates that Ireland should have a property tax

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/daniel-mcconnell-next-big-hot-potato-is-property-tax-of-up-to-1000-3175429.html

All this, while our leader's are along the highest paid in Europe, and Edna Kenny actually gets more than the leader of the UK (with roughly fifteen times the population) David Cameron (pretty good for the leader of a bankrupt country)

Simple poll has been added, so let's hear your views.

eth0

They can get ta fcuk

Shower of utter useless bastards FG+Labour

What house?

<_<
>_>

Hande hoche!

It's good to own land.

TeddyTedson

Why do **** do they keep going after people who can't afford it? It doesn't make sense. Just bump up the poxy corporation tax for **** sake. Companies won't leave over a 1% rise. Will they?

Ghandee

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Why do **** do they keep going after people who can't afford it? It doesn't make sense. Just bump up the poxy corporation tax for **** sake. Companies won't leave over a 1% rise. Will they?

Soft targets Teddy.

Those who can least afford to pay it, can least afford to fight back.

JustAddWater

"You can't tax your way out of a recession" .... WTF is all this then

If only hypocrisy and lying to get into power were a crime

Smidge

Is this a different tax from the household tax/charge or the same?

TeddyTedson

Ghandee wrote: »

Soft targets Teddy.

Those who can least afford to pay it, can least afford to fight back.

Or even just increase income tax. I wouldn't mind that. At least it's somewhat fair.

I think we're actually going to have to over throw the government at some stage. In 2 years time we won't have a pot to piss in.
Who can you vote for either, the Sinners? FF?
I'd nearly vote the Sinners in actually at this stage...

Goat the dote

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Ghandee wrote: »

Soft targets Teddy.

Those who can least afford to pay it, can least afford to fight back.

Or even just increase income tax. I wouldn't mind that. At least it's somewhat fair.

I think we're actually going to have to over throw the government at some stage. In 2 years time we won't have a pot to piss in.
Who can you vote for either, the Sinners? FF?
I'd nearly vote the Sinners in actually at this stage...

Oh god no. Not the sinners.. I'd take bertie back at this stage. At least things always seemed jolly when he was around..

eth0

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Or even just increase income tax. I wouldn't mind that. At least it's somewhat fair.

I think we're actually going to have to over throw the government at some stage. In 2 years time we won't have a pot to piss in.
Who can you vote for either, the Sinners? FF?
I'd nearly vote the Sinners in actually at this stage...

Assuming you don't live in a caravan property tax is just a base rate of income tax that has to be paid even if you're making 0 a year. Putting up income tax won't kill the economy any more than property tax except you won't be taking money from people who are earning nothing.

the groutch

what's the point in having a poll if the results are hidden?

Ghandee

mishkalucy wrote: »

Is this a different tax from the household tax/charge or the same?

The HHC never was a HHC.

it was simply a registration exercise so they'd know who to send the bills to with this upcoming tax (and to add insult, they charged you to later shaft you)

I for one am glad I never registered, and I hope all that did, and now see (what we all predicted) the €100 quickly turning into €1000 are proud of themselves.

This tax won't just 'go away' by whinging about it, BUT, by refusing to cooperate (i.e not paying it) it might just.

Your country needs you folks. (while ministers pick up a variety of pensions)

Forget banana republic, we're living in a potato one :rolleyes:

Pottler

the groutch wrote: »

what's the point in having a poll if the results are hidden?

It's the Irish version of transparency.

Run_to_da_hills

It will be the IMF giving these orders on this issue in the not so distant future so you will be wasting your time bitching at the government.

Same goes for slashing the Dole and DA allowances.

The Gardai better be well equipped.

tayto lover

It doesn't matter if it's 1e or 1,000e i'm not paying a tax on my home. Same people being hit all the time.

Smidge

Ghandee wrote: »

The HHC never was a HHC.

it was simply a registration exercise so they'd know who to send the bills to with this upcoming tax (and to add insult, they charged you to later shaft you)

I for one am glad I never registered, and I hope all that did, and now see (what we all predicted) this being introduced are proud of themselves.

Your country needs you folks. (while ministers pick up a variety of pensions)

Forget banana republic, we're living in a potato one :rolleyes:

So is it the same thing or different(I'm assuming a different charge/tax)?

Chucky the tree

On average can be very misleading.

TeddyTedson

eth0 wrote: »

Assuming you don't live in a caravan property tax is just a base rate of income tax that has to be paid even if you're making 0 a year. Putting up income tax won't kill the economy any more than property tax except you won't be taking money from people who are earning nothing.

Isn't that kind of a good thing...

Hootanany

Ghandee wrote: »

Just read this article online, and tbh its quite disturbing reading.

Daniel McConnell reports that on average, each Irish household will be forced to pay in the region of one thousand euro per house, which let's face it, unless your on seriously good money, to suddenly have one thousand euro suddenly taken from your disposable income will be pretty tough going.

I personally do not agree with this charge/tax for various reasons, main one being (obviously) having already suffered salary reductions, rising cost (don't even mention the USC charge), but also,

We're already indirectly paying for LA services via income tax, vat etc, and it would be suggested that this impending tax will bridge the gap where LA services are not covered by these taxes.


However, that's the reason we currently pay for various services like refuse collection, education fees (plus school lunches and transport) doctors fees health care fees, extortionate motor tax, crippling fuel tax (which has vat added to that) tolls on the roads also.

This incoming tax has been compared to the rates system in the north, or the council tax system in the UK, but this simply is not true. (all the things outlined above are included with rates/council tax at no extra cost)



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/daniel-mcconnell-next-big-hot-potato-is-property-tax-of-up-to-1000-3175429.html

All this, while our leader's are along the highest paid in Europe, and Edna Kenny actually gets more than Barack Obama, (pretty good for the leader of a bankrupt country)

Simple poll has been added, so let's hear your views.

The results are hidden

westendgirlie

Is this tax for property owners only?

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

On average can be very misleading.

Jesus H Christ. :rolleyes:

So even when its 'average Joe' that can be misleading, because then their will be a minority paying less, or the majority paying more?

Expected nothing less from you chucky tbh.

hondasam

The only reason I will not pay the HHC is because they will not say what we will be paying in the future but we all know it will be more than a €100.

woodoo

It prob won't start at €1000 but thats where it will end up in a few short years.

I'd guess when it is introduced it will be an average of about €200 or €300

ilovesleep

On average 1000 per annum,
Is 83.33 a month
Is 20.83 a week.

We have the very bare minimum of bills here
ESB
Oil
Gas
TV license
Bins (we use bin bags, and bonfires)

All these outgoings, although they come about every two months/three months/1 year for the tv license/Fortnight for bins are coming up to 60 a week.

I didn't add in the household tax.
So property tax, an extra 21 euro a week.
Water charges.


Middle income earners with familys IMO are hit the most and hardest. I can't imagine what bills are like for those with a car, insurance (car, house, medical), childcare, school, house improvements and repairs.

Hootanany

Tax on everyone not just property bigger catchment smaller payment. Why should people living social housing not pay.

hondasam

woodoo wrote: »

It prob won't start at €1000 but thats where it will end up in a few short years.

I'd guess when it is introduced it will be an average of about €200 or €300

I think that will be the lowest but some people will pay double that.

woodoo

If it does come in it should be more like the British council tax which includes renters and home owners.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

Jesus H Christ. :rolleyes:

So even when its 'average Joe' that can be misleading, because then their will be a minority paying less, or the majority paying more?

Expected nothing less from you chucky tbh.

Don't get cranky because you can't see the flaw in saying "on average". 10 people go out for dinner, they decided to pay for themselves. 9 people spend €20 on their food, one person spends €100. The average cost of the meal is different to what their meal will actually cost them.

hondasam

This is the argument here it should be for everyone not just home owners. People renting should pay they are using the same services as the rest of us.

ilovesleep

The more money they take out from our pockets, the less we have to spend = more job losses.

There will be tumbleweeds blowing down our streets just yet.

Transfer of wealth taken from the lower/middle class to the upper wealthy class, this will be.

unit 1

Look folks I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it really is very simple.

No matter how much tax any of you are now paying it is not enough, ok got that, it's not enough.
No amount of pleading, or tax everyone else except me, or we're a special case, or pay it will I fukc, or EK gets too much wages matters. We all have to pay more tax and those on SW will have to do with less, it is quite frankly as simple as that,

westendgirlie

woodoo wrote: »

If it does come in it should be more like the British council tax which includes renters and home owners.

Council tax has different bands too. The more expensive the property, the higher rate of tax you pay.

At least with the council tax you get the emergency services, water, bins, street lights, libraries, schools, parks, sports facilities, etc included in the price.

syklops

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Why do **** do they keep going after people who can't afford it?

You are putting all property owners into the category of people who can't afford it. I accept that there are lots of people out there who own property, who are short on cash, but that is not everyone. There is an awful lot of people out there, owning one or more properties, who can easily afford that money.

TeddyTedson wrote: »

It doesn't make sense. Just bump up the poxy corporation tax for **** sake. Companies won't leave over a 1% rise. Will they?

I am not an economist, so i don't know. However, why would the following companies have their european head quarters here if it were not a good deal. Why would we annoy them by upping their tax? Companies with European headquarters in Ireland:

Google
Microsoft
Facebook
Paypal
Apple
Pfizer
Yahoo
Amazon
LinkedIn
eBay

I work for Red Hat in the Czech Republic, but anything financial goes via Cork. Last month I got an email saying I needed to expense the 30 euro (Irish)government tax for my corporate credit card. Every employee with a credit card had that charge(not just the Irish ones!). I don't know what sort of money all that amounts to, but its a large amount and I would rather that amount was going via Dublin instead of Zurich or Berlin.

The_Thing

They can fcuk off and die.

ahsured

No way I am not paying any household tax.
In all fairness I have child maintenance,mortgage,car tax, car insurance,fuel to get from a to b.

Not once have fine gael given any one on low wages or welfare a break or some kind of uplift.

Its all downhill with this crowd.

They are selling us out,our fish are gone,our oil is gone.

ilovesleep

unit 1 wrote: »

Look folks I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it really is very simple.

No matter how much tax any of you are now paying it is not enough, ok got that, it's not enough.
No amount of pleading, or tax everyone else except me, or we're a special case, or pay it will I fukc, or EK gets too much wages matters. We all have to pay more tax and those on SW will have to do with less, it is quite frankly as simple as that,

Enda Kenny is a bollix and Joan Burton is a bitch

TeddyTedson

syklops wrote: »

You are putting all property owners into the category of people who can't afford it. I accept that there are lots of people out there who own property, who are short on cash, but that is not everyone. There is an awful lot of people out there, owning one or more properties, who can easily afford that money.



I am not an economist, so i don't know. However, why would the following companies have their european head quarters here if it were not a good deal. Why would we annoy them by upping their tax? Companies with European headquarters in Ireland:

Google
Microsoft
Facebook
Paypal
Apple
Pfizer
Yahoo
Amazon
LinkedIn
eBay

I work for Red Hat in the Czech Republic, but anything financial goes via Cork. Last month I got an email saying I needed to expense the 30 euro (Irish)government tax for my corporate credit card. Every employee with a credit card had that charge(not just the Irish ones!). I don't know what sort of money all that amounts to, but its a large amount and I would rather that amount was going via Dublin instead of Zurich or Berlin.

But corporation is so low here we could afford to raise it a little and we'd still be the cheapest though, am I right?

Ghandee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Don't get cranky because you can't see the flaw in saying "on average". 10 people go out for dinner, they decided to pay for themselves. 9 people spend €20 on their food, one person spends €100. The average cost of the meal is different to what their meal will actually cost them.

So by your definition, it could end up costing us a hundred euro because some generous guys will pay a few million? The term 'on average' has been used, and id guess pretty accurately.

Not tonight chucky, not tonight.

Avatarr

How many times is this government going to go back to the well, our leader in 1994 said - "it is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home". He was right, unfortunately, he presently has selective amnesia on such matters.

tayto lover

ilovesleep wrote: »

The more money they take out from our pockets, the less we have to spend = more job losses.

There will be tumbleweeds blowing down our streets just yet.

Transfer of wealth taken from the lower/middle class to the upper wealthy class, this will be.

That's how the rich get rich. Man has to close down his business because the public no longer have the dosh to buy his products. Rich man buys it for fcuk all and keeps empty property until things get on the mend. In a few years time when the recession is over and things are taking off again it's worth 3/4 times what he paid for it.

ilovesleep

Avatarr wrote: »

How many times is this government going to go back to the well, our leader in 1994 said - "it is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home". He was right, unfortunately, he presently has selective amnesia on such matters.

He's humping a German hole, I'll have you know.

Kensington

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Don't get cranky because you can't see the flaw in saying "on average". 10 people go out for dinner, they decided to pay for themselves. 9 people spend €20 on their food, one person spends €100. The average cost of the meal is different to what their meal will actually cost them.

What?
The average in that case is €28. So 9 pay less than the average but 1 pays a hell of a lot more.

Put it this way - if 9 out of any 10 people only pay €100 property tax on an average charge of €1000, then 1 person must pay €9,100 to balance the average.
There simply won't be such a mass imbalance with property tax so unfortunately for most that €1,000 average is going to be fairly indicative of the real cost to them and for others it'll be higher again.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

So by your definition, it could end up costing us a hundred euro because some generous guys will pay a few million? The term 'on average' has been used, and id guess pretty accurately.

Not tonight chucky, not tonight.

Yes, if it's in the independent then it's definitely going to be pretty accurate. :pac:

woodoo

westendgirlie wrote: »

Council tax has different bands too. The more expensive the property, the higher rate of tax you pay.

At least with the council tax you get the emergency services, water, bins, street lights, libraries, schools, parks, sports facilities, etc included in the price.

people could prob accept that if thats the way it would work. But in this country the tax will go to waste somewhere.

galwayrush

I won't finish off my house...therefore won't have a completion cert, therefore they can **** off.
When the powers that be cop on and stop wasting money, i'll reconsider.

cooperguy

According to the Times today 50% of the Tax increases and Spending Cuts have been taken by the top 20%

johngalway

eth0 wrote: »

They can get ta fcuk

Shower of utter useless bastards FF+Greens+PD+Independents who ****in caused all of this mess

FYP :rolleyes:

eth0

woodoo wrote: »

people could prob accept that if thats the way it would work. But in this country the tax will go to waste somewhere.

Except we've had all that already for many years without having to pay the government for the privilege of being allowed to live in your own house.

If you are actually earning money i don't mind tax on that but its not fair to demand money from people just because they have a roof over their head

syklops

TeddyTedson wrote: »

But corporation is so low here we could afford to raise it a little and we'd still be the cheapest though, am I right?

When I was on orientation, the Director of Finance(himself a Cork man) said, if Ireland increased corporation tax, they would move operations to Zurich. Zurich is in Switzerland. Switzerland does not have the Euro and is one of the strongest currencies in the world.

Also:
Minimum wage in Ireland = 8.65 euro
Minimum wage in Switzerland = 0 euro.

ahsured

My house wasnt finished properly because the builders havent finished off the snag list.

I wonder will I be exempt.

I dont think so but maybe its worth a try