Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

foggy_lad

MrDerp wrote: »

On the few occasions I've been on busy trains in Europe, I always recall the booking system distinguishing between free now, free until <station>, reserved.

On a train from Cork to Dublin, the following should be visible:
1. If the seat is unreserved the sign should say "Dublin" as in, this seat is free all the way to Dublin.
2. If the seat is reserved for MrDerp, boarding at Cork, the sign should say "MrDerp"
3. If the seat is free until Thurles, it should say "Thurles" until the station reaches Thurles. When the train reaches Thurles, this should change from Thurles to "MrDerp"

Foggy Lad, on boarding the train should know whether a seat belongs to MrDerp now, whether it's free to Dublin, or whether he can make a call on sitting there until Thurles (as indicated on the screen), checking for a free seat then, or if someone alights at Mallow.

As for people blatantly sitting in my reserved seat, I profile for mistakes or blatant ignorance. If the latter, I look for a staff member and politely (smiling) mention my reserved seat is taken. I've got a seat in first class a couple of times by being polite.

If you were sitting comfortably from Cork to Thurles or Portlaoise in what appears to be an unreserved seat and someone boarded and claimed your seat as their reserved seat would you gather your belongings and try to find another seat if available or would you stay put and stand your ground?

LeftBlank

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you were sitting comfortably from Cork to Thurles or Portlaoise in what appears to be an unreserved seat and someone boarded and claimed your seat as their reserved seat would you gather your belongings and try to find another seat if available or would you stay put and stand your ground?

It would be the decent thing to do no? Never mind about the broken information system, the decent thing to do would be to give it up.

foggy_lad

LeftBlank wrote: »

It would be the decent thing to do no? Never mind about the broken information system, the decent thing to do would be to give it up.

Not at all, when the system is not working it reverts back to firs come first served.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you were sitting comfortably from Cork to Thurles or Portlaoise in what appears to be an unreserved seat and someone boarded and claimed your seat as their reserved seat would you gather your belongings and try to find another seat if available or would you stay put and stand your ground?

It could be just moving one seat up so it wouldnt be an issue. If i was just being pig headed and trying to prove a point against Irish Rail then i wouldnt move but why take it out on my fellow passenger?

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Foggy does have a point, if you get on a train and there is no indication that the seat is booked from x station and you sit there and then later someone else comes along and tells you that they booked the seat and you have to move your laptop and bag to another seat and potentially have to stand as all seats are already taken, then yes you are going to be pissed at IR and the person who booked the seat may well be embarrassed having to ask you to move.

If you can't do seat bookings properly then don't do it at all.

I think with all the increased competition and falling passenger numbers, hardly any trains are fully booked any more and it would be better if IR dropped it completely.

So it wouldnt be much of an issue then to move seeing that the train isnt busy.

LeftBlank

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not at all, when the system is not working it reverts back to firs come first served.

What a fine, upstanding citizen you are.

What if a family of four, with two small kids had booked 4 seats around a table. Would you refuse to move then?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

not at all, once I have been allowed into the train or cinema I am a customer with exactly the same rights as every other customer and the same entitlement to remain seated, if you were told to give up a seat on a flight because someone else had paid more for their ticket so was going to get your seat would you move?

It is all explained very clearly in the conditions of carriage which you should read and get someone to explain to you if you don't understand. I say this because I have already linked to the conditions of carriage which explains the position very clearly but you seem to not have read or understand them or you just think that some passengers because they have "reserved" a ticket are entitled to lord it over the rest of us poor fookers that just turn up and hope for the best!

If Irish Rail make a balls of the reservation and another passenger sits in a seat which has not been properly marked as reserved then that seat is taken and the only thing the passenger with the reservation can claim for is the seat reservation fee!

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf

Are you seriously saying that if you were let in free to a cinema say by a friend you have the same rights as the person who paid the full amount and that you are entitled to sit anywhere you want?
How on earth is a person who went to the trouble of paying for his or her ticket online lording it over anyone else especially if that someone was on a freebie ?
There is an easy solution to this, either do away with the free travel altogether as its clearly being abused and make everyone pay the same fare online or at the booking office. A better solution is to have a carriage for first class which you would get if you reserved a seat, a second class carriage for the walk up fares and a third class carriage for the freebies.
Same should apply for the buses but obviously without the carriages.

LXFlyer

I have to say I'm finding this tit for tat discussion as pointless as the other one on the Longford v Maynooh trains.

Not trying to do Victor's job, but give it a rest! It's utterly pointless and is making reading his board less and less interesting.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It could be just moving one seat up so it wouldnt be an issue. If i was just being pig headed and trying to prove a point against Irish Rail then i wouldnt move but why take it out on my fellow passenger?

Of course it would be an issue! I have taken my seat on the train for the journey and should not have people asking me to move or questioning my right to the seat I have legitimately taken.

LeftBlank wrote: »

What a fine, upstanding citizen you are.

What if a family of four, with two small kids had booked 4 seats around a table. Would you refuse to move then?

Thanks for the Compliment and to answer your question No I would not move or give up my seat for a family of any number. Having children does not give you any greater rights than someone who chooses not to have children!

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that if you were let in free to a cinema say by a friend you have the same rights as the person who paid the full amount and that you are entitled to sit anywhere you want?
How on earth is a person who went to the trouble of paying for his or her ticket online lording it over anyone else especially if that someone was on a freebie ?
There is an easy solution to this, either do away with the free travel altogether as its clearly being abused and make everyone pay the same fare online or at the booking office. A better solution is to have a carriage for first class which you would get if you reserved a seat, a second class carriage for the walk up fares and a third class carriage for the freebies.
Same should apply for the buses but obviously without the carriages.

Oh dear, No. What I am saying is that if a cinema is unconditionally offering free seats then yes I would have exactly the same rights as those paying full price and the same applies if they offered free OAP tickets or free child tickets.

How on earth is a person who went to the trouble of paying for his or her ticket online lording it over anyone else especially if that someone was on a freebie ?
<snip>
A better solution is to have a carriage for first class which you would get if you reserved a seat, a second class carriage for the walk up fares and a third class carriage for the freebies.
Same should apply for the buses but obviously without the carriages.

Your attitude towards those with free travel is thankfully not as prevalent within Irish Rail as it appears to be with some regular supporters of Irish Rail here on boards.ie So maybe there is some chance the company can pull itself up from the brink and some jobs might be saved.

foggy_lad

This thread asks why are Irish Rail failing so badly but we all have our own answers to that question, what should be asked is what can be done to limit the damage! Should intercity lines be cut back to commuter distances as the extra distance and huge maintenance and massive labour costs for a handful of passengers going to Galway, Sligo, Waterford, Galway-Limerick, Nenagh branch and Waterford-Limerick Jctn is just not worth the risk that the whole company and network will collapse into bankruptcy.

Hilly Bill

Thankfully those with your attitude are in a minority Foggy.

MrDerp

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you were sitting comfortably from Cork to Thurles or Portlaoise in what appears to be an unreserved seat and someone boarded and claimed your seat as their reserved seat would you gather your belongings and try to find another seat if available or would you stay put and stand your ground?

I would feel entitled to stand my ground. The person claiming the reserved seat has an issue with the rail company for not providing the service, not some honour system with me. Someone might show me a ticket with a seat number, but I'll feel entitled to ask to see it on the board over my head.

That said, I'd more often than not acquiesce, as I'm pretty non-confrontational but the boarding passenger has no more valid claim than my possession of the seat does.

As I've said, I've got on a packed train before, seen that none of the names are up, and found people in my seat. I didn't hunt them out of it based on a little number on a ticket or piece of paper I'm holding. They might have got on an empty train first and honestly picked what appeared to be a free seat, losing their opportunity to find another because I got on 5 minutes before departure expecting my seat.

While there appeared to be several conversations about the topic going on in the carriage, with some people reluctantly moving their stuff and others standing their ground, I went and found the hostess (we were departing from Dublin) and I politely informed her of the situation, at which point she sat me and two companions in first class.

goingnowhere

On most trains in Europe there is NO notice that a seat is reserved, if you have the reservation coupon its your seat.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

So it wouldnt be much of an issue then to move seeing that the train isnt busy.

Well it would be very inconvenient, I would have to pack up my mac and headphones into my bag, get my other bag from the overhead and find another seat, which may involve walking through a number of carriages with my bags. Not very convenient at all.

As I've said, either do it right or not at all.

foggy_lad

goingnowhere wrote: »

On most trains in Europe there is NO notice that a seat is reserved, if you have the reservation coupon its your seat.

but on most of those services the whole carriage would be reservation only so those without reservations would not be in that carriage, otherwise how are those without reservations to know that any seat is reserved?

Judgement Day

lxflyer wrote: »

I have to say I'm finding this tit for tat discussion as pointless as the other one on the Longford v Maynooh trains.

Not trying to do Victor's job, but give it a rest! It's utterly pointless and is making reading his board less and less interesting.

+100

Back in the day I belonged to a now defunct organisation called "The Association of Public Transport Users" which used to meet regularly in rooms above the International Bar in Wicklow Street - most meetings were derailed by pedants kicking up over the 46a (or some such) being two minutes late the previous Friday and weighter matters concerning the bigger picture took a back seat. Where's the APTU today - same place as this forum is heading? I would have thought that the number of people concerned about problems with seat reservations would represent a minute fraction of rail travellers and, as such, are a very small part of the reason 'Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly'.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

what should be asked is what can be done to limit the damage!

nothing can be done.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Should intercity lines be cut back to commuter distances

no, the savings would be minimal and doing so would be letting irish rail get away with the fact they are not bothering and never bothered to run these lines properly.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the extra distance and huge maintenance and massive labour costs

bull. its not that much extra.

foggy_lad wrote: »

for a handful of passengers going to Galway, Sligo, Waterford,

a handfull? yeah right.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Galway-Limerick, Nenagh branch and Waterford-Limerick Junction

are irrelevant as they will close soon.

foggy_lad wrote: »

is just not worth the risk that the whole company and network will collapse into bankruptcy.

which closures or cutting back services won't prevent. the only thing thats going to bankrupt the network and the company should it happen is irish rail management, their also the only thing that could prevent it from happening but their just not bothered as they think (shur new trains will solve the problem) for what its worth i can't see irish rail being allowed to go bankrupt, i could be wrong but with the amount of jobs that would be lost if it happened i believe it would be political Suicide for any party that would be in government should they allow it to happen.

CIE

Who said Galway-Limerick was closing? If that closes, then close the motorway as well and get rid of the equally-unnecessary express buses; but if the motorway does not close, then give that railway over to someone who wants to run it.

dowlingm

CIE wrote: »

if the motorway does not close, then give that railway over to someone who wants to run it.

Blah blah here we go again. The mean old government is preventing DB and OBB and Uncle Tom Cobbley from coming in and making a pot of gold spring from abandoned platforms in Tuam, etc.

corktina

CIE wrote: »

Who said Galway-Limerick was closing? If that closes, then close the motorway as well and get rid of the equally-unnecessary express buses; but if the motorway does not close, then give that railway over to someone who wants to run it.

that's pure nonsense...the motorway is at least utilised by a few people... and the service offered on the Limerick to Galway line is in fact better than that offered on some of the other lines .

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

the service offered on the Limerick to Galway line is in fact better than that offered on some of the other lines .

well service number wise it certainly is a lot better then rosslare dublin which has a lot more passengers despite IE'S vendetta and attempts to drive away everyone so they can shut and lift it.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Well it would be very inconvenient, I would have to pack up my mac and headphones into my bag, get my other bag from the overhead and find another seat, which may involve walking through a number of carriages with my bags. Not very convenient at all.

As I've said, either do it right or not at all.

But that would only be IF all the seats in that carriage was taken. It wouldnt be an inconvenience if you only had to move across 1 seat.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

that's pure nonsense...the motorway is at least utilised by a few people... and the service offered on the Limerick to Galway line is in fact better than that offered on some of the other lines

So you're admitting that there's a market for rail service?

You can't have it both ways. If there's a market for the motorway to serve (especially with express buses), there's a market for the railway to serve too.

dowlingm

IE can't even drop offpeak stops at Ardrahan. How are they going to attract people from an express bus?

cabb8ge

The cheap buses to and from the big cities make rail travel very expensive, Cork to Galway not too long a bus ride and very cheap. Cork to Dublin on bus longer than train but very cheaper so better for me as money precious today.

CIE

cabb8ge wrote: »

The cheap buses to and from the big cities make rail travel very expensive, Cork to Galway not too long a bus ride and very cheap. Cork to Dublin on bus longer than train but very cheaper so better for me as money precious today

They won't be so cheap in the long run. Gotta pay for that infrastructure subsidy somehow, never mind bus subsidy in the case of BE. (That's called conflict of interest.)