Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

Losty Dublin

sligotrain wrote: »

The Phoenix Park tunnel is grossly underused. Could the Sligo trains be rerouted into Heuston and the Galway and Westport trains run via the more direct Mullingar-Moate-Athlone route?

Does Heuston have the capacity to take on the Sligo trains as well. It already hosts the Galway and Westport trains.

In my view the Dublin-Belfast service is a vital link between the two cities and North and South in general. I'd keep the Enterprise as it is, but agree the running speeds need to be increased.

A few points here.

Heuston is close to capacity so there isn't any room to bring an additional 18 trains daily in and out of it. Bringing a Sligo bound train into or out of it will require 2 reversal to do this with an time add one of 20 minutes to the trip; this isn't taking into account the time delays to other trains using two of the citys 4 rail lines.

The Galway-Mayo services use Heuston since the early 1970's partially because it was quicker than via Mullingar. As it stands, the lines into and out of Connolly have no more capacity for up to 16 extra services a day so it's stuffed out of it. Tullamore and Clara would lose their services yet Moate, the sole town on the line is witin reach of Clara so passengers would be displaced along ths route here. And all this before the massive investment to renew, resignal and reinstate level crossings the line via Mullingar along with renewing it's stations and a new platform for Athlone.

The main time delays on Belfast trains are on the NIR side of the border; this is out of Irish Rail's hands.

Judgement Day

Solair wrote: »

No, but I'm saying it was a bit stupid to not to make an effort to make them good for viewing the countryside. It should have been part of the general specification as we do have some interesting rolling scenery.

On the lines that run down the east coast for example, there was a good chance to do this.

It just seems dumb not to have, a bit like the way they didn't have bike carrying space on the trains for a while and had to retrofit it!

I've posted this before but it's worth doing so again. How much more more expensive could it have been to design the 22000s with a front end from where the countryside could be viewed. Cue foggy_lad et al saying it would be wasteful. :rolleyes:



It mightn't be clear from my photo but passengers in the 1950's AEC railcars were separated from the driver by windows with blinds (normally in the up position) which gave a superb view of the countryside.

Losty Dublin

Judgement Day wrote: »

I've posted this before but it's worth doing so again. How much more more expensive could it have been to design the 22000s with a front end from where the countryside could be viewed.

There are wads of electrical controls and stuff behind the driver on a 22000 so you'd see buggar all to be honest

dowlingm

sligotrain wrote: »

The Phoenix Park tunnel is grossly underused. Could the Sligo trains be rerouted into Heuston and the Galway and Westport trains run via the more direct Mullingar-Moate-Athlone route?

Does Heuston have the capacity to take on the Sligo trains as well. It already hosts the Galway and Westport trains.

Sligotrain:

1. Sligo trains can't route into Heuston directly as the curve goes the other way. Not sure how a reversing move could be done given the layout at Glasnevin Junction - will leave that to others. Even then Sligo passengers may resent being "relegated" to Platform 10 which is remote from Heuston's main building.
2. The Mullingar-Moate-Athlone needs significant works and even then the most logical flow for a restored Mullingar-Athlone route is Ballina freight, followed by Galway/Mayo GAA specials as accessing Athlone East would require time consuming reversals. Most importantly, the Mullingar-Maynooth single trackage becomes saturated by such a move.

I think if you want to improve life for Sligo passengers and have that kind of money, you want to

1. spend it east of Mullingar on more extensive double trackage than what is there currently
2. get DASH2 done to free up Connolly capacity by making some additional suburban trains through routing over the river to Pearse or further
3. Try and get speed limits north of Mullingar raised north of 75mph as lines out of Heuston are rumoured to be getting, where safety and track geometry permits.

Judgement Day

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There are wads of electrical controls and stuff behind the driver on a 22000 so you'd see buggar all to be honest

That's as maybe but it could have been part of the design specification just as SDO should have been. Can't, shan't and won't - the three pillars of CIE policy to everything.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

........................It mightn't be clear from my photo but passengers in the 1950's AEC railcars were separated from the driver by windows with blinds (normally in the up position) which gave a superb view of the countryside.

GNR(I) had those railcars too, the front row of seats were about 2-3 ft. behind the driver. A full glass panel gave a driver's eye view of the line ahead. As kids we used to be fascinated by the gear changes, the hiss of the vacuum brake lever and especially the horn.

dowlingm

VIA Rail Skyline Dome Car


360 degree panorama view here.

It's easier to build this sort of thing when you're running over freight roads with double stack containers. Not really possible on IE rails. I remember seeing a design for a single deck with a clear roof but not where I saw it.

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

That's as maybe but it could have been part of the design specification just as SDO should have been. Can't, shan't and won't - the three pillars of CIE policy to everything.

Think of the insurance claims for the horror of watching some clown mooching over a gated crossing before said clown or his abandoned vehicle are hit.

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

I've posted this before but it's worth doing so again. How much more more expensive could it have been to design the 22000s with a front end from where the countryside could be viewed. Cue foggy_lad et al saying it would be wasteful. :rolleyes:



It mightn't be clear from my photo but passengers in the 1950's AEC railcars were separated from the driver by windows with blinds (normally in the up position) which gave a superb view of the countryside.

The tint on the MKIV makes night time visibility very poor - very hard to see where you are.

A forward viewing ability on the 22000 would have been nice but yes the usual ignoramii would tell us it was wasteful because it would be of no benefit to them.

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

so take off your swastika!

No need for this.

Moderator

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

I've posted this before but it's worth doing so again. How much more more expensive could it have been to design the 22000s with a front end from where the countryside could be viewed. Cue foggy_lad et al saying it would be wasteful. :rolleyes:



It mightn't be clear from my photo but passengers in the 1950's AEC railcars were separated from the driver by windows with blinds (normally in the up position) which gave a superb view of the countryside.

Not completely wasteful but most likely too expensive for the benefits gained. Also there would probably be issues surrounding the drivers cab not being secure enough from such things as terrorist attacks and hijackers breaking in to control the train. There would also be fights amongst the drunks over who gets to "drive the train".

kieran4003

The above post by Solair is one of the most realistic, sensible posts I have seen on this forum in a long time. You hit the nail on the head with all your points.

You are correct about the 22000 class. Braking and acceleration in them is superb. They are able to complete journeys quicker then any loco hauled train. The results from the 22000 speed trial trains have been very impressive.

The new timetable will see the biggest changes to Intercity services in decades. There will be a lot of time taken off services.

Dublin - Cork changes include:
-The 05:05 from Cork is axed.
-The 06:15 & 07:30 trains will now be at 06:00 & 07:00.
-All other services ex Cork will now leave at XX:20 past the hour (To clear platform for down trains arriving)
- Accelerations on most trains.

Galway & Waterford had speed trials this week following increases in lne speeds last week. For the Waterford line, A sub 2 hours journey Dublin - Waterford train stopping at all stations between Athy & Waterford (including Kilkenny) was trialled.

parsi

kieran4003 wrote: »

Dublin - Cork changes include:
-The 05:05 from Cork is axed.
-The 06:15 & 07:30 trains will now be at 06:00 & 07:00.
-All other services ex Cork will now leave at XX:20 past the hour (To clear platform for down trains arriving)
- .

What a load of crap. So now they've changed the clockface departure time and have changed the two outlier times.

The 07:00 isn't bad - getting in at a decent time is grand as there was a serious gap between the 06:15 and the 07:30.

Clearing the platforms is a ****e excuse - they can depart from the Up if only they'd get their act together -this has been going on for years: remember watching the train being shunted from platform to platform on a Friday evening (90's) whilst passengers stood and waited.

The again maybe this will suit the golden pass crew on their way to meet up with their adverts.ie customers or their family in Portlaoise).

(Spoken as a paying customer by the way)

Jamie2k9

Would you get a grip the on the hour departure from Dublin and 30 past from Cork is currently not working particualy causing problems at Limerick. Its 10 minutes earlier will you life be affected. Cork trains are not the only trains running into Heuston....

If a train leaves Heuston at 07.00 the new timetable should have it arriving in Cork around 09.30 so a 09.20 departure from Cork is required.

Today there was problems over seat reservations on the 16.35 to Waterford which resulted in a stand off between around 8 passengers for 45 minutes before one gave in. The people in the seats said you have to be at your seat 20 minutes before train departure and then it was a shouting match. The ticket checker was no where to be seen until 18.10 when he checked tickets. All I can say if it was lads sitting in the seats then it would of being a different story. Just to say the names were displyed. One person go off train and others moved but got un acceptable abuse after doing so.

Waterford had speed trials this week following increases in lne speeds last week. For the Waterford line, A sub 2 hours journey Dublin - Waterford train stopping at all stations between Athy & Waterford (including Kilkenny) was trialled.

Any idea of which services are being dropped, reported that 06.00 on a Saturday going and some others.

parsi

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Would you get a grip the on the hour departure from Dublin and 30 past from Cork is currently not working particualy causing problems at Limerick. Its 10 minutes earlier will you life be affected. Cork trains are not the only trains running into Heuston....

I don't need to get a grip.

When ever any railway company introduces a clockface departure it's on the back of detailed study and massive publicity. DB did it back in the mid seventies and it was brilliant.

IE did it and it was great - Cork folk didn't need to know what time the train went - was it the 7:10 , the 8:17, the 9:01 etc.

Clockface is a benefit to the customer and a marketing dream for the company.
If IE introduced this without study and have suddenly realised it's not working well then that's their fault.

No passenger cares about what time the train from some other part of the country leaves - they care about the time from their station.

This is a retrograde step by IE and this is the opinion of a fare-paying passenger.

I want to have a decent rail service in the country and not one that serves only to transport golden pass holders in their mobile broadband dongle business.

Jamie2k9

Here we go again Cork people thinking the world revolves around them. Hate to break it to you but it doesn't. People still have a set hourly departure time just at 20 past instead of 30 if people have trouble remembering that then I have little hope from them...

Clockface is a benefit to the customer and a marketing dream for the company.

It only benefits people departing from Cork and that number is small compared to what it picks up enroute which dosn't have clockface departures.

parsi

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Here we go again Cork people thinking the world revolves around them. Hate to break it to you but it doesn't. People still have a set hourly departure time just at 20 past instead of 30 if people have trouble remembering that then I have little hope from them...



It only benefits people departing from Cork and that number is small compared to what it picks up enroute which dosn't have clockface departures.

Your arrogance and ignorance is stunning.

A company picks a marketing point and markets it to the high heavens for a reason.

The company shouldn't then suddenly drop this point.

Don't be a jackeen.

It's not about Cork.

It's about IE introducing a great concept that travellers love and then suddenly dropping it...

It's about making public transport rememberable (if thats a word) and then suddenly dropping the concept.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

There would also be fights amongst the drunks over who gets to "drive the train".

Reported for causing stress for the other members - attacks on railway staff are not just by the drunken contingent of golden pass holders.

Jamie2k9

It's not about Cork.

It is as it only benefits passengers from Cork city. Its a differance of 10 minutes, you should be grateful you will be keeping the hourly train services running at 20 past the hour and not a major reduction in service.

Don't be a jackeen.

FYI half of my family are from Cork and I live close to border to..

parsi

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It is as it only benefits passengers from Cork city. Its a differance of 10 minutes, you should be grateful you will be keeping the hourly train services running at 20 past the hour and not a major reduction in service..

You don't get the point.

It's not about Cork.

It's about introducing a clockface service and then ditching it.

Clockface is the Holy Grail of transport. Companies strive to get there and hang onto it.

IE have obviously decided that they don't care. This is bad for customers and also bad for enthusiasts as it suggests that the company is incompetent.

These comments are made by a paying customer.

Jamie2k9

You don't get the point.

It's not about Cork.

It's about introducing a clockface service and then ditching it.

Clockface is the Holy Grail of transport. Companies strive to get there and hang onto it.

IE have obviously decided that they don't care. This is bad for customers and also bad for enthusiasts as it suggests that the company is incompetent.

These comments are made by a paying customer.

Its not possible to keep it without money being invested and IE don't have it. Would you like the current timetable to be kept or the new improved services which need a 10 minute change departing from Cork. Most people would prefer the new setup if it ment less time travling.

parsi

Nobody has mentioned arrival times.

Point is IE spent a lot of time , effort and money advertising & developing a clockface departure time. Now they are ditching it because they realise it doesn't work. That's their problem and not ours.

That's not a benefit to customers.

That's my opinion as a PAYING customer.

Jamie2k9

Nobody has mentioned arrival times.

Point is IE spent a lot of time , effort and money advertising & developing a clockface departure time. Now they are ditching it because they realise it doesn't work. That's their problem and not ours.

That's not a benefit to customers.

That's my opinion as a PAYING customer

IE are dropping it as they have realised that all Intercity routes need faster journey times to keep people travling on trains. 10 minutes will make zero differance to passengers. My point about arrival times was people will get from A to B faster and if that requres 10 minutes change to a timetable then so be it people won't care.

Clearly this 10 minutes will affect you, you could always move to the express buses that have a clockface timetable and you would save money to!

I am also a paying customer so no need to keep bringing it up.

parsi

BTW Jamie - if you dont here from me it's because I got a ban for questioning Golden Pass holders. They seem to have a special place here.

Jamie2k9

Mabye the new departure time will affect Golden Pass holder numbers travling..

parsi

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IE are dropping it as they have realised that all Intercity routes need faster journey times to keep people travling on trains.

Ah jeeze... how can they suddenly realise this ??

Jamie2k9

Ah jeeze... how can they suddenly realise this ??

When two bus compansy start hourly express buses to Cork within months and then faster bus services to Galway and the M9 to Kilkenny/Waterford doesn't help them keep paying passengers on trains when they are so slow.

AlekSmart

parsi wrote: »

BTW Jamie - if you dont here from me it's because I got a ban for questioning Golden Pass holders. They seem to have a special place here.

It's worth pointing out here that the Golden Pass turns to base-metal if presented on one of the New Express Coach services.......:p

dowlingm

Let me get this straight - there's a row going on because IE is operating Cork trains at XX20 except for two, when previously they were XX30 except one two (0505, 0615), and this is some sort of calamity breaching the Holy Covenant Of The Clockface, not mitigated by the matter of the journey times are likely to be shorter with the new operating speeds and better sequencing at the Junction? Don't know where you're going with that parsi to be honest. Making us Cork people look like some sort of bogger gowls who can tell time only once an hour is neither big nor clever.

Incidentally kieran4005 - how do you mean the 0505 was "axed" - surely there were at least some passengers on board ex Cork, were they transferred onto the Limerick service at Thurles? How was the Ballybrophy stop (which the Limerick train doesn't normally make) accomplished?

At a timetable of 3h05m, a departure of 0505 and an oversized train in a Mark4 it's easy to see how the numbers don't add up, but the reality is that the first train Cork-Dublin is surely going to slip beyond the current 0810 even with more aggressive timetabling of the new 0600. I would have switched the 0505 to a 3x22K, reworked the stopping pattern of it and the Limerick service to take account of the new line speeds and only then decided if the market was indifferent.

If the current Thurles commuter stays as is, it will be interesting to see if the new 0700 Cork can make it to the Junction fast enough to get in and out before it, allowing for a 1h29m first connection to Limerick ex Cork - same arrival time but 2h15m at present in addition to being before either the first BE or the first Citylink.

gobythewall

dowlingm wrote: »

Making us Cork people look like some sort of bogger gowls

Not THAT much work