Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

We'll agree to differ on who makes fun of who and I don't have time to pull up some examples, but I'll happily highlight some examples for you as they happen.

Your personal experience with staff may be positive, but mine has left an awful lot to be desired. I have never haggled with staff or been rude to them, yet I regularly failed to get as much as a thank you at ticket desks, found staff on the end of a phone arrogant and was made feel like I was a nuisance with my query. I can't leave out the tatty uniforms and yes I have witnessed staff members reading newspapers while they sold me a ticket without hardly looking up. In fact only this summer gone, I had to contend with one chap who was tucking into fish and chips in the ticket office. These things are happening and nobody has the right to say they aren't or make assumptions about other peoples complaints or issues. Yes people can get a ticketing system wrong, but it does not give Irish Rail staff the right to be rude.

Ive lost count of how many feedback forms and calls Ive made over the years. Irish Rail are beyond help.

Nobody is doubting that its happening but personally i think there is a bit of a poetic licence thing going on with some comments to justify the complaints.

corktina

Grandeeod wrote: »

With respect, please read my post again. I said some posters. Some does not mean all. I know you are by no means an apologist. I trust this clarifies my point.

"don't come here looking for a sympathetic ear to complaints about Irish Rail. "

i think you will find at least one poster who would be delighted to do just that..

yer man!

Ok there is clearly a bus/train divide here. I live in Galway, I am a student, before the motorway I always used the train, didn't have access to a car and there was no express bus, it was a no brainer really. I always liked the train, It was waiting in the station when I arrived to get on, it was relatively fast and it was comfortable.

Now you have the 100km/h express bus, for €19 return for an adult, galway dublin 2.5hrs, great. However I do not find it as comfortable as the train, there is no table at 90% of the seats, or a socket, you can't have a proper conversation with a group of people, the toilets are pretty tiny and you can't walk around. Now this will not bother most people, nor does it usually bother me, it's cheap, it's grand......

For example I got a galway dublin train return last Sat, a route I would normally drive for €30 return (100km/h driving, 2.5hrs) I really liked it, had loads of space, plugged in the laptop, had adequate internet, got a lot of work complete, nice window seat in a quiet carriage. Yes I did have to get a luas which was €3.10 return, this didn't really bother me as I was going to connolly anyway.

My point is, I still think the train is better as a mode of transport, for me as a student the price is just enough for me to take it over the bus, it's getting faster, the price is dropping and I find it much more comfortable. The bus still does have it's strong points though, if I was going to the airport, it's the bus hands down, I'm usually flying out early in the morning so I do not want to have to change modes of transport at dublin like with the train. So both are good, If I was going to dublin city i'd take the train, the airport - then the bus.

I'm a student with student pricing so take that into account before you rip me to shreds..... :-(

dowlingm

yer man! wrote: »

Yes I did have to get a luas which was €3.10 return, this didn't really bother me as I was going to connolly anyway.

Can't you buy a ticket to Connolly including the LUAS in the price? Or is it the same price anyway?

JyesusChrist

Its way cheaper to drive than take a train.

Hilly Bill

JyesusChrist wrote: »

Its way cheaper to drive than take a train.

It is if you dont have to buy the train and insure it and then put fuel in it and it depends where you are going. €4.70 return in the inner zone of Dublin where you can go from say Clonsilla to Booterstown return. Try doing that in your own car for €4.70 without the hassle of traffic and parking.

sligotrain

yer man! wrote: »

Ok there is clearly a bus/train divide here. I live in Galway, I am a student, before the motorway I always used the train, didn't have access to a car and there was no express bus, it was a no brainer really. I always liked the train, It was waiting in the station when I arrived to get on, it was relatively fast and it was comfortable.

Now you have the 100km/h express bus, for €19 return for an adult, galway dublin 2.5hrs, great. However I do not find it as comfortable as the train, there is no table at 90% of the seats, or a socket, you can't have a proper conversation with a group of people, the toilets are pretty tiny and you can't walk around. Now this will not bother most people, nor does it usually bother me, it's cheap, it's grand......

For example I got a galway dublin train return last Sat, a route I would normally drive for €30 return (100km/h driving, 2.5hrs) I really liked it, had loads of space, plugged in the laptop, had adequate internet, got a lot of work complete, nice window seat in a quiet carriage. Yes I did have to get a luas which was €3.10 return, this didn't really bother me as I was going to connolly anyway.

My point is, I still think the train is better as a mode of transport, for me as a student the price is just enough for me to take it over the bus, it's getting faster, the price is dropping and I find it much more comfortable. The bus still does have it's strong points though, if I was going to the airport, it's the bus hands down, I'm usually flying out early in the morning so I do not want to have to change modes of transport at dublin like with the train. So both are good, If I was going to dublin city i'd take the train, the airport - then the bus.

I'm a student with student pricing so take that into account before you rip me to shreds..... :-(

I think what you are saying here is very fair actually. It really is horses for courses as they say. I would wholeheartedly agree that the bus beats the train for getting to Dublin Airport but the train for a city centre to city centre journey works for me.

yer man!

JyesusChrist wrote: »

Its way cheaper to drive than take a train.

Trust me it is not, (Galway - Dublin), tolls (€10 return), fuel (€30 return, in a vw golf diesel @ 100km/h), parking (€mad) and as the other poster mentioned, tax, insurance, NCT, maintenance. Plus you can't drink, no fun in that......

yer man!

dowlingm wrote: »

Can't you buy a ticket to Connolly including the LUAS in the price? Or is it the same price anyway?

Only made plans with friends when I was getting into Dublin so I don;t know much about combined tickets.

corktina

JyesusChrist wrote: »

Its way cheaper to drive than take a train.

ah no,in my own case it is probably only slightly cheaper to drive if I am on my own, usually though I would not be on my own, and with two of us, it's a no-brainer to drive.

Capt'n Midnight

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It is if you dont have to buy the train and insure it and then put fuel in it and it depends where you are going. €4.70 return in the inner zone of Dublin where you can go from say Clonsilla to Booterstown return. Try doing that in your own car for €4.70 without the hassle of traffic and parking.

Thing is most people considering driving would already have a taxed and insured car to hand.

This is why replacing motor tax with fuel tax would incentivise people to use public transport. Incorporating some basic insurance subsidy into fuel tax would also do this.

Instead it's a case where the extras on the car have already been paid for so the extra cost isn't that much higher.

foggy_lad

sligotrain wrote: »

I think what you are saying here is very fair actually. It really is horses for courses as they say. I would wholeheartedly agree that the bus beats the train for getting to Dublin Airport but the train for a city centre to city centre journey works for me.

It is not city centre to city centre though, the train stops 2km short of the city centre. And on the bus you don't need to drag any luggage down the quarter mile from train to the Luas stop, it is possibly cheaper for one person travelling alone but any family trips are cheaper in a car!

dowlingm wrote: »

Can't you buy a ticket to Connolly including the LUAS in the price? Or is it the same price anyway?

you chose "city centre" instead of Heuston as your destination and the Luas is added @ €1.60 each way so €3.20 return.

sligotrain

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is not city centre to city centre though, the train stops 2km short of the city centre. And on the bus you don't need to drag any luggage down the quarter mile from train to the Luas stop, it is possibly cheaper for one person travelling alone but any family trips are cheaper in a car!
you chose "city centre" instead of Heuston as your destination and the Luas is added @ €1.60 each way so €3.20 return.

Heuston is out of the centre but the LUAS makes up for that. IMHO you are splitting hairs here to make an ideological point.

bk

sligotrain wrote: »

Heuston is out of the centre but the LUAS makes up for that. IMHO you are splitting hairs here to make an ideological point.

Sure, but if you are comparing it to a bus coach, then the extra time and cost to get the luas needs to be taken into account in any comparison as almost all the coach companies bring you right bang into the city center.

davidlacey

irish rail over dublin bus any day of the week to travel on other than weekends, cant stand crowded 4 carriage darts coming from work on a saturday, example if i am lucky enough to get lets say the afternoon rosslare to dublin intercity service during the week it could take me 15 minutes from bray all going well to dun laoghaire if i took the 45a a good 45 minutes at the earliest , it takes minimum 20 minutes to get out of bray on this bus so whatever is most convinent at the timeis the way to go

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Sure, but if you are comparing it to a bus coach, then the extra time and cost to get the luas needs to be taken into account in any comparison as almost all the coach companies bring you right bang into the city center.

Thats only true if its a race to Bus arras from the country with the bus and train leaving at the same time from the same place and the bus doesnt get stuck in traffic especially along the quays from Heuston . Trains can go up to 120mph buses have limiters to 100kph. Both the bus and train have their pros and cons and people will always travel on the one that suits them better at the time of their travel.

Losty Dublin

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats only true if its a race to Bus arras from the country with the bus and train leaving at the same time from the same place and the bus doesnt get stuck in traffic especially along the quays from Heuston . .

You mean like this?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwkfauojsngb/rss2/

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats only true if its a race to Bus arras from the country with the bus and train leaving at the same time from the same place and the bus doesnt get stuck in traffic especially along the quays from Heuston . Trains can go up to 120mph buses have limiters to 100kph.

FYI, while the Mark 4 carriages are capable of 125 mph, the 201 class engine that pulls them is only capable of 100mph. The 22k DMU's have a max speed of 100 mph

Despite all that the reality is the train never gets up to these speeds due to various speed restrictions along the line.

The reality of the current schedule is that the average Cork to Dublin time is 2:47 to Hueston, plus another 20 minutes to the city center. The average speed of the coaches to the city center is 3hours.

And yes, coaches do leave at the same time as the trains and in my experience the coaches do manage to make their schedule to the minute (I've only been on one that was 20 minutes late due to Jazz bank holiday traffic, normal Friday traffic doesn't seem to be an issue).

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You mean like this?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwkfauojsngb/rss2/

Where the bus was the clear winner unless travelling in a group when cars are cheaper.

Hilly Bill

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You mean like this?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwkfauojsngb/rss2/

Thats a bit like the Top Gear challenges . Its a good article.

From reading that, there wasnt much between the three time wise. The car would have been the quickest if the driver knew the way around Dublin. The cost looks expensive with the stress of the driving and being constant on alert and the stress of finding the parking thrown in.

The Train read as a good experience with the cost less than the car and plenty of room with the only gripe was about the Wi-Fi.

The Bus was the cheapest option and you cant go wrong at that price. Again it read as a good experience and at that price it cancels out any gripes that you could have.

Based on that article, that bus wins it for me, but far from a clear winner. In practice i will nearly always drive unless there is a reason for me not to take the car. My first option would be to take the car, failing that i would look at the train and failing that id look at the bus if going far.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is not city centre to city centre though, the train stops 2km short of the city centre. And on the bus you don't need to drag any luggage down the quarter mile from train to the Luas stop, it is possibly cheaper for one person travelling alone but any family trips are cheaper in a car!
you chose "city centre" instead of Heuston as your destination and the Luas is added @ €1.60 each way so €3.20 return.

If one has a "Golden Ticket" then pure public transport (i.e. Iarnród & Bus Éireann) will always win.

parsi

dowlingm wrote: »

Just don't make the clockface a Swiss Federal Railways one - even Apple had to pay those guys their cut.

Seems like Mondaine have to rights for the SBB version.

We've a lovely DB version in the kitchen .

(Ok, I recant some of my comments about the timings of Cork services)

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats a bit like the Top Gear challenges . Its a good article.

From reading that, there wasnt much between the three time wise. The car would have been the quickest if the driver knew the way around Dublin. The cost looks expensive with the stress of the driving and being constant on alert and the stress of finding the parking thrown in.

The Train read as a good experience with the cost less than the car and plenty of room with the only gripe was about the Wi-Fi.

The Bus was the cheapest option and you cant go wrong at that price. Again it read as a good experience and at that price it cancels out any gripes that you could have.

Based on that article, that bus wins it for me, but far from a clear winner. In practice i will nearly always drive unless there is a reason for me not to take the car. My first option would be to take the car, failing that i would look at the train and failing that id look at the bus if going far.

Well if travelling alone then bus first then train booked in advance is the way to go as they both beat the cost and loneliness of a three hour drive on your own. Travelling with friend or family then bus for 2-3 people but driving for any more than that.. trains are not evil;)

bk

parsi wrote: »

If one has a "Golden Ticket" then pure public transport (i.e. Iarnród & Bus Éireann) will always win.

Actually, not necessarily the case, over the summer, my mother who lives in Cork was flying out of Dublin Airport and who has a "golden ticket" opted to instead pay for Aircoach from Cork as it brought you right to the front door of Dublin Airport departures.

She was delighted with the service. Much easier and less stressful then struggling off the train with a heavy bag and trying to find the 747 at Hueston.

Hilly Bill

its not stressful. You would wheel or carry your bags further at the airports . The 747 leaves from right outside the station at the luas stop and doesnt take much to find.No argument against the direct option though.

sligotrain

As a regular user of both Dublin Airport and Heuston station I know the walk from the platforms to the well-signposted 747 stop just outside the main entrance is a fraction of the distance from the entrance of Dublin Airport to any of the departure gates. I doubt anyone "struggles" with bags to get to the 747 stop unless they are ridiculously overloaded.

I would say in fairness to bk the 747 doesn't half go round the houses in Dublin City Centre to get to the airport. Generally I use the LUAS to Busaras and get on a bus from there. Much quicker.

parsi

bk wrote: »

Actually, not necessarily the case, over the summer, my mother who lives in Cork was flying out of Dublin Airport and who has a "golden ticket" opted to instead pay for Aircoach from Cork as it brought you right to the front door of Dublin Airport departures.

She was delighted with the service. Much easier and less stressful then struggling off the train with a heavy bag and trying to find the 747 at Hueston.

A wise woman.

If one can pay to have the more direct option then take it.

I'm off to Berlin in February and I'll get the bus up during the night - either Aircoach or GoBe depending on the price.

CIE

bk wrote: »

Actually, not necessarily the case, over the summer, my mother who lives in Cork was flying out of Dublin Airport and who has a "golden ticket" opted to instead pay for Aircoach from Cork as it brought you right to the front door of Dublin Airport departures.

She was delighted with the service. Much easier and less stressful then struggling off the train with a heavy bag and trying to find the 747 at Heuston

Sounds like an endorsement for more privatisation. Aircoach, although a subsidiary of FirstGroup, is still privately owned and self-funded through the farebox, yes? (excepting the infrastructure it runs on, that is.) Something tells me that if we had some private railway operation, then a Dublin Airport rail link (perhaps even a Shannon Airport rail link as well if you like) would have been far further along than under the government's heavy hand.

O Riain

Quiet simply it is the tendency of people to live in isolated rural areas rather than urban centres. Absolutely impossible for iarnrod eireann to provide an acceptable service because of way planning is dealt with all over the country.

end of the road

parsi wrote: »

If one has a "Golden Ticket" then pure public transport (i.e. Iarnród & Bus Éireann) will always win.

yeah, perish the thought that some fair paying passengers might actually like using the train over a bus with a jacks, each to their own i suppose.