Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

Jamie2k9 · 27-11-2012 12:13AM

IE have now got new leaflets for booked seats. They clearly tell passengers to check the displays over the windows and they have an example of one enlarged on the pages. It seemed to of worked as people read the page and looked up and moved on.

People may now get the message and not be such pricks and sit in booked seats even when they know they are booked.

foggy_lad · 27-11-2012 12:48AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IE have now got new leaflets for booked seats. They clearly tell passengers to check the displays over the windows and they have an example of one enlarged on the pages. It seemed to of worked as people read the page and looked up and moved on.

People may now get the message and not be such pricks and sit in booked seats even when they know they are booked.

Thats big of them! Make it look like it was always passengers who were at fault!

Have they got off their arses and fixed the booking system so that if you book a seat from say Thurles to Dublin it actually shows on the overhead display from the time the train starts boarding in Cork?

If I board in cork and your seat is not marked as reserved from Thurles I am perfectly entitled to sit in that seat for the entire duration of my journey. If the seat magically lights up as reserved as the train stops in Thurles it is too late and i will refuse to move and will instead direct you to the Irish Rail staff who shall confirm that I have been in the seat for the entire journey and the seat was not reserved from anywhere when I boarded

Jamie2k9 · 27-11-2012 01:04AM

I can't comment on the way the Cork system works but staff in Waterford are fantastic when it comes to seat reservations. They do display "reserved from X" and when we arrived in Kilkenny after saying "reserved from Kilkenny, before the doors opened all Kilkenny passengers names showed up. For some reason they always use the displys and leaflets. Last time I recall a train that I have on had no signs up was last July. Can't comment on other lines but there was being a real effort made on Waterford line to have it working. If for some reason they names can't be shown they will have the leaflets on seats.

Make it look like it was always passengers who were at fault!

A lot of the time passenges will still sit in pre booked seats even if they see the name or reserved from x above.

BTW they have made the signs clearer to read on some of the ICR sets. The names are now shown in Light Green and not the Orange/Brown colour. Its much easier to read.

foggy_lad you have to give them some credit as they are trying to improve it.

foggy_lad · 27-11-2012 03:19AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I can't comment on the way the Cork system works but staff in Waterford are fantastic when it comes to seat reservations. They do display "reserved from X" and when we arrived in Kilkenny after saying "reserved from Kilkenny, before the doors opened all Kilkenny passengers names showed up. For some reason they always use the displys and leaflets. Last time I recall a train that I have on had no signs up was last July. Can't comment on other lines but there was being a real effort made on Waterford line to have it working. If for some reason they names can't be shown they will have the leaflets on seats.

A lot of the time passenges will still sit in pre booked seats even if they see the name or reserved from x above.

BTW they have made the signs clearer to read on some of the ICR sets. The names are now shown in Light Green and not the Orange/Brown colour. Its much easier to read.

foggy_lad you have to give them some credit as they are trying to improve it.

I have been on several trains to and from the west-Galway and Westport where the reservations were a complete disaster and also some trains from cork with similar problems but lately it doesn't matter on cork services because there is plenty of empty seats since the bus competition started.

I have seen those reserved cards on the Waterford train several times(they seem to be on the ball down there, but they have feck all else to do) and have never sat in a seat I know to be reserved, but if I board in Carlow and sit in a "free" seat and you board in Athy with a reserved ticket for my seat and the reserved light only lights up in Athy I will not move and nobody in Irish rail will move me without buying the seat from me first!

The Idyl Race · 27-11-2012 09:56AM

I don't know about the rest of ye but I'm just going to unfollow this thread because its now all about foggy_lad's sense of entitement

CIE · 27-11-2012 10:01AM

The Idyl Race wrote: »

I don't know about the rest of ye but I'm just going to unfollow this thread because its now all about foggy_lad's sense of entitement

I suspect that if he had the capacity to drive to every destination of his choice, he'd be complaining about that as well.

corktina · 27-11-2012 01:55PM

well, I can see Foggys point. If IE can't make it clear that a particular seat is available only as far as Thurles (in this example) and must be given up there when the booked passenger gets on, then they need to overhaul their system rapidly. They are putting TWO passengers out here, it's NEITHER of their faults that a dispute arises.

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2012 02:55PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Thats big of them! Make it look like it was always passengers who were at fault!

Have they got off their arses and fixed the booking system so that if you book a seat from say Thurles to Dublin it actually shows on the overhead display from the time the train starts boarding in Cork?

If I board in cork and your seat is not marked as reserved from Thurles I am perfectly entitled to sit in that seat for the entire duration of my journey. If the seat magically lights up as reserved as the train stops in Thurles it is too late and i will refuse to move and will instead direct you to the Irish Rail staff who shall confirm that I have been in the seat for the entire journey and the seat was not reserved from anywhere when I boarded

Do you really need to remind us of this everytime this thread is bumped? We get it, you wont move.

Grandeeod · 27-11-2012 02:55PM

corktina wrote: »

well, I can see Foggys point. If IE can't make it clear that a particular seat is available only as far as Thurles (in this example) and must be given up there when the booked passenger gets on, then they need to overhaul their system rapidly. They are putting TWO passengers out here, it's NEITHER of their faults that a dispute arises.

At last. Some sense.

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2012 02:58PM

CIE wrote: »

I suspect that if he had the capacity to drive to every destination of his choice, he'd be complaining about that as well.

Its what free travel does to some people.

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2012 03:04PM

corktina wrote: »

well, I can see Foggys point. If IE can't make it clear that a particular seat is available only as far as Thurles (in this example) and must be given up there when the booked passenger gets on, then they need to overhaul their system rapidly. They are putting TWO passengers out here, it's NEITHER of their faults that a dispute arises.

How do you work that one out? If i refuse to move to someone who has a ticket for a seat, be it on a train ,bus or a footy game then i would be at the centre of that dispute. The dispute would be down to my attitude and not anyone else's.

corktina · 27-11-2012 08:13PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How do you work that one out? If i refuse to move to someone who has a ticket for a seat, be it on a train ,bus or a footy game then i would be at the centre of that dispute. The dispute would be down to my attitude and not anyone else's.

quite simple, the first passenger is upset because he has to move and the second because he has to move the first. Dreadful PR, and IE are responsible fro two passngers having a bad experiance.

Just to emphasise we are talking about a situation where it IS NOT made clear that a passenger is joining later in the journey with the seat reserved, NOT a situation where it is shown from the start of the trains journey that this is the case.

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2012 09:38PM

Personally i would just move if someone proved to me that they had reserved the seat. Its really no big deal and i wouldnt need to get upset about it or blame Irish Rail about it.

end of the road · 27-11-2012 10:48PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Personally i would just move if someone proved to me that they had reserved the seat. Its really no big deal and i wouldnt need to get upset about it or blame Irish Rail about it.

and many would be like you, however i think to make things simpler i believe its best to have (reserved from) on the screens at the very start of the trains journey. yes in an ideal world we wouldn't have to but we don't live in such a world.

dowlingm · 28-11-2012 05:02AM

It's funny - I'm reading on railroad.net about how Amtrak have basically abandoned seat allocation because it's too much grief, which makes me want to say "for feck sake lads even IE manage that" and then I come back to this thread and see just how much grief an imperfect implementation causes.

foggy_lad · 28-11-2012 05:06AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Personally i would just move if someone proved to me that they had reserved the seat. Its really no big deal and i wouldnt need to get upset about it or blame Irish Rail about it.

So say you go to the theatre or cinema with the missus or girlfriend or whoever and ye find two empty seats together and sit down and start enjoying the movie, then I come along and tell your missus she has to move because I have reserved the seat she has been sitting on for half the movie and there are no other seats for her. Shouldn't she stand her ground as ye were not warned at the time of taking up your seats that one has reserved and the theatre rules also state that all reserved seats must be claimed before the start of the movie.

CIE · 28-11-2012 07:27PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

So say you go to the theatre or cinema with the missus or girlfriend or whoever and ye find two empty seats together and sit down and start enjoying the movie, then I come along and tell your missus she has to move because I have reserved the seat she has been sitting on for half the movie and there are no other seats for her. Shouldn't she stand her ground as ye were not warned at the time of taking up your seats that one has reserved and the theatre rules also state that all reserved seats must be claimed before the start of the movie.

Your straw man fell apart.

Hilly Bill · 28-11-2012 08:35PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

So say you go to the theatre or cinema with the missus or girlfriend or whoever and ye find two empty seats together and sit down and start enjoying the movie, then I come along and tell your missus she has to move because I have reserved the seat she has been sitting on for half the movie and there are no other seats for her. Shouldn't she stand her ground as ye were not warned at the time of taking up your seats that one has reserved and the theatre rules also state that all reserved seats must be claimed before the start of the movie.

Dont tell the missus about the girlfriend or she will want to go to the cinema as well

.

If you can prove that you have reserved the seat then ye, she should move. If there were no other seats then she shouldnt have been in there in the first place. Having a bit of cop on doesnt require a college course.

foggy_lad · 28-11-2012 08:40PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Dont tell the missus about the girlfriend or she will want to go to the cinema as well .

If you can prove that you have reserved the seat then ye, she should move. If there were no other seats then she shouldnt have been in there in the first place. Having a bit of cop on doesnt require a college course.

Why should she move when I am told in the terms and conditions that reserving a seat does not guarantee me the seat I reserved or any seat?

Hilly Bill · 28-11-2012 08:42PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why should she move when I am told in the terms and conditions that reserving a seat does not guarantee me the seat I reserved or any seat?

Make your mind up, do you want to her to move or not?

foggy_lad · 28-11-2012 09:06PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Make your mind up, do you want to her to move or not?

I want the "cinema staff" to do their jobs properly and if their reservation system doesn't work properly they should be placing notices on the reserved seats. just another of many reasons that Irish Rail has no future in Ireland!

end of the road · 28-11-2012 09:18PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

I want the "cinema staff" to do their jobs properly and if their reservation system doesn't work properly they should be placing notices on the reserved seats. just another of many reasons that Irish Rail has no future in Ireland!

ah jaysus would you get up oul thah and move when your told.

Hilly Bill · 28-11-2012 11:02PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

I want the "cinema staff" to do their jobs properly and if their reservation system doesn't work properly they should be placing notices on the reserved seats. just another of many reasons that Irish Rail has no future in Ireland!

What if she paid to see the film and you got in free, would you move for her?

bk · 28-11-2012 11:27PM

Foggy does have a point, if you get on a train and there is no indication that the seat is booked from x station and you sit there and then later someone else comes along and tells you that they booked the seat and you have to move your laptop and bag to another seat and potentially have to stand as all seats are already taken, then yes you are going to be pissed at IR and the person who booked the seat may well be embarrassed having to ask you to move.

If you can't do seat bookings properly then don't do it at all.

I think with all the increased competition and falling passenger numbers, hardly any trains are fully booked any more and it would be better if IR dropped it completely.

foggy_lad · 29-11-2012 01:39AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What if she paid to see the film and you got in free, would you move for her?

not at all, once I have been allowed into the train or cinema I am a customer with exactly the same rights as every other customer and the same entitlement to remain seated, if you were told to give up a seat on a flight because someone else had paid more for their ticket so was going to get your seat would you move?

It is all explained very clearly in the conditions of carriage which you should read and get someone to explain to you if you don't understand. I say this because I have already linked to the conditions of carriage which explains the position very clearly but you seem to not have read or understand them or you just think that some passengers because they have "reserved" a ticket are entitled to lord it over the rest of us poor fookers that just turn up and hope for the best!

If Irish Rail make a balls of the reservation and another passenger sits in a seat which has not been properly marked as reserved then that seat is taken and the only thing the passenger with the reservation can claim for is the seat reservation fee!

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf

SECTION E
RESERVATIONS OF SEATS ON TRAINS
43. Reservations of seats on trains.
43.1 Iarnród Éireann (in addition to its rights by common law, statute, contract or
otherwise) reserves the right to assign to passengers the seats, which they
are to occupy.
43.2 A passenger shall not occupy a seat reserved for or assigned by Iarnród
Éireann to another passenger.
43.3 Reserved seat tickets are issued subject to the conditions and regulations
applicable to the passenger ticket to which the reserved seat ticket relates
and to the special conditions, that Iarnród Éireann is not deemed to undertake
to provide particular seats in the appropriate class, or any seats, and failure to
do so will impose no liability upon Iarnród Éireann other than to refund the
reservation fee paid.
43.4 Reserved seat tickets are valid only on production of the passenger tickets
covering the journey and must be shown to and given up as required to
Iarnród Éireann’s employees or agents.
43.5 Reserved seats must be claimed prior to the advertised departure time of the
train.
43.6 Passengers at terminal stations who wish to claim their reserved seats must
be available for boarding at least twenty minutes prior to the advertised
departure time of the train.

Losty Dublin · 29-11-2012 01:44AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What if she paid to see the film and you got in free, would you move for her?

He wouldn't be in a cinema; golden passes don't get him in them for free.

Godge · 29-11-2012 10:56AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

not at all, once I have been allowed into the train or cinema I am a customer with exactly the same rights as every other customer and the same entitlement to remain seated, if you were told to give up a seat on a flight because someone else had paid more for their ticket so was going to get your seat would you move?

It is all explained very clearly in the conditions of carriage which you should read and get someone to explain to you if you don't understand. I say this because I have already linked to the conditions of carriage which explains the position very clearly but you seem to not have read or understand them or you just think that some passengers because they have "reserved" a ticket are entitled to lord it over the rest of us poor fookers that just turn up and hope for the best!

If Irish Rail make a balls of the reservation and another passenger sits in a seat which has not been properly marked as reserved then that seat is taken and the only thing the passenger with the reservation can claim for is the seat reservation fee!

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf

Have you read the conditions of carriage. This is quite clear:

"43.2 A passenger shall not occupy a seat reserved for or assigned by Iarnród Éireann to another passenger"

So on a Dublin-Cork train someone gets on at Portlaoise and claims their reserved seat (with proof) and you have been occupying that seat since Dublin, you have to move because of 43.2. No obligation in that section for Iarnroid Eireann to tell you the seat was reserved when you got on in Dublin, the only obligation is on you not to occupy it.

The sections you rely on - 43.1 and 43.3 - allow Iarnroid Eireann to reassign a booked/reserved seat and that Iarnroid Eireann do not provide a guarantee. They do not allow a passenger to come along and usurp a booking.

foggy_lad · 29-11-2012 12:00PM

Godge wrote: »

Have you read the conditions of carriage. This is quite clear:

"43.2 A passenger shall not occupy a seat reserved for or assigned by Iarnród Éireann to another passenger"

So on a Dublin-Cork train someone gets on at Portlaoise and claims their reserved seat (with proof) and you have been occupying that seat since Dublin, you have to move because of 43.2. No obligation in that section for Iarnroid Eireann to tell you the seat was reserved when you got on in Dublin, the only obligation is on you not to occupy it.

The sections you rely on - 43.1 and 43.3 - allow Iarnroid Eireann to reassign a booked/reserved seat and that Iarnroid Eireann do not provide a guarantee. They do not allow a passenger to come along and usurp a booking.

The seat is not reserved until it has been physically marked as reserved in some way! Imaginary reservation cards or lights just don't inform other passengers in the same way as the real thing.(1. The act of reserving; a keeping back or withholding. - you can't keep something back or withhold it unless you inform others!)

Really when the carriage reservations are screwed up some member of staff should place a card on each reserved seat but they are too busy/bone idle/incompetent to do that so the system just collapses!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reservation

res·er·va·tion [rez-er-vey-shuh n] Show IPA
noun
1.
the act of keeping back, withholding, or setting apart.
2.
the act of making an exception or qualification.
3.
an exception or qualification made expressly or tacitly: to accept something, but with inner reservations.
4.
a tract of public land set apart for a special purpose, as for the use of an Indian tribe.
5.
an arrangement to secure accommodations at a restaurant or hotel, on a boat or plane, etc.

The only way Irish rail would not be obliged to inform other passengers of seat reservations is if the whole carriage was closed to general passengers and only those with reservations were allowed to board. Otherwise how is a passenger supposed to know that a seat is reserved when the light is off and there is no card on the seat??

foggy_lad · 29-11-2012 12:05PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

He wouldn't be in a cinema; golden passes don't get him in them for free.

How would YOU know where I would or would not be at any time?? You don't even know what a reservation is.

MrDerp · 29-11-2012 12:26PM

On the few occasions I've been on busy trains in Europe, I always recall the booking system distinguishing between free now, free until <station>, reserved.

On a train from Cork to Dublin, the following should be visible:
1. If the seat is unreserved the sign should say "Dublin" as in, this seat is free all the way to Dublin.
2. If the seat is reserved for MrDerp, boarding at Cork, the sign should say "MrDerp"
3. If the seat is free until Thurles, it should say "Thurles" until the station reaches Thurles. When the train reaches Thurles, this should change from Thurles to "MrDerp"

Foggy Lad, on boarding the train should know whether a seat belongs to MrDerp now, whether it's free to Dublin, or whether he can make a call on sitting there until Thurles (as indicated on the screen), checking for a free seat then, or if someone alights at Mallow.

As for people blatantly sitting in my reserved seat, I profile for mistakes or blatant ignorance. If the latter, I look for a staff member and politely (smiling) mention my reserved seat is taken. I've got a seat in first class a couple of times by being polite.

Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

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