Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

foggy_lad · 12-11-2012 12:20PM

bk wrote: »

Er foggy_lad, isn't that exactly what I said?

That it isn't clockface, but there are night services!!

Indeed there are some night-time services and they are very welcome to many travellers especially as they allow people to attend functions and parties etc in Galway then return to Dublin for work the next morning, saving a lot of expense for many!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

No, Galway runs all night too.

There are only limited services ex Dublin during the night, it is not like the Belfast service which runs every 2 hours each way during the night/early morning.

Cavehill Red · 12-11-2012 12:33PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Why couldn't you book online? The rugby was on on Saturday so there may have been "the quota" of seats already booked - they tend to keep a lot of seats for walk-ups.

How late did you realise you needed to go to Belfast? If you book 3 days in advance you get a fare of 30e and 15e for the child (if between 5 and 16).

The problem with keeping seats for walk ups is when the walk ups walk away and use another service that's 40% of the price. At a quarter to one there was about ten people waiting to board that train. You'd think they'd be trying to get as many onto it as possible. Apparently the Sunday World was more compelling.

bk · 12-11-2012 12:56PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

How late did you realise you needed to go to Belfast? If you book 3 days in advance you get a fare of 30e and 15e for the child (if between 5 and 16).

Which is still more expensive then the bus, for a slower service and you don't have to book three days in advance.

bk · 12-11-2012 01:06PM

stop wrote: »

The reason for the gap in services to Dublin Airport can be found here
http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/flight-information/live-departures.aspx
and here
http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/flight-information/live-arrivals.aspx

Yes, while the Airport doesn't operate flights at that time, I do think there is a gap to be filled for people who just want to travel to Dublin City.

For instance on the Cork route there is a big gap between 7pm and 1am. I think even one regular service at 10pm going to Dublin City would be popular.

Last time I was getting the 7pm ex-Cork, it was full and a hire-in coach had to be brought in for the 30 people left behind!

I think a 8pm service would be popular (gets in by 11, so you could get the last Dublin Bus, DART home) and a 10 or 11pm service to catch people who might want to stay out late in Cork.

Hilly Bill · 12-11-2012 05:54PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Had to go to Belfast and back today with junior. Tried to book train tickets online. The website wouldn't offer any return journey seats. Went down to Connolly. Was offered zero discount for travelling on a day return. Price requested was 55 euro per ticket, no negotiation, no apology, no concern at losing the custom. I walked round to Busaras and got two bus tickets for 40 euro. Two fat controllers sat in the booth with the Sunday World open in front of them, saying 'Like it or lump it.' This, in a nutshell, is why Irish Rail is screwed.

let me get this right, you were expecting an apology and a discount because the return from belfast was sold out online? 55 is the return price for sundays and you cant really haggle at a booking office. I doubt if they told you to take it or leave it.

Cavehill Red · 12-11-2012 07:50PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

let me get this right, you were expecting an apology and a discount because the return from belfast was sold out online? 55 is the return price for sundays and you cant really haggle at a booking office. I doubt if they told you to take it or leave it.

Let me help you get this right (though I don't believe I was unclear earlier.)
I tried to book tickets online and though they offered a day return option and price, the site would not let me choose any returning train option (maybe a glitch, maybe the 'quota' was filled.)
I went to Connolly, where they quoted 55 euro per person for the day return, even though my child is a child. There were ten people queuing to get on the train with fifteen minutes left before departure. So clearly there was capacity on return trains, otherwise they would not have thought to offer me them at any price (or am I assuming a degree of intelligence beyond the counter staff here?)
I asked if they would match the advertised online price. They refused and told me to take it or leave it. Then went back to reading the Sunday World. I took my business to Busaras instead.
Is that clear enough for you now? The counter staff were rude and unhelpful, the online system didn't work properly, the price quoted was ridiculous, and the net result is that Irish Rail lost two customers, and not just for yesterday but from this point onwards.

Victor · 12-11-2012 08:06PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Read back through this thread and came across this nonsense.

Play nice.

Moderator

Losty Dublin · 12-11-2012 09:11PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

They refused and told me to take it or leave it.

In other words, you thought you could simply walk up and haggle the price of a train ticket. I'd love to see you try that at Dublin Airport at short notice

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Is that clear enough for you now? The counter staff were rude and unhelpful, the online system didn't work properly, the price quoted was ridiculous, and the net result is that Irish Rail lost two customers, and not just for yesterday but from this point onwards.

It's not broken just because you failed to book online but by the sounds of it you may not have been too pleasant towards them to begin with.

Cavehill Red · 12-11-2012 09:49PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

In other words, you thought you could simply walk up and haggle the price of a train ticket. I'd love to see you try that at Dublin Airport at short notice

There's no need to misrepresent or paraphrase what I wrote. They refused to honour an advertised price which their website offered. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if they will honour a price advertised and I don't think that can be categorised as haggling at all. Nor would they offer a child fare, despite my understanding being that children's fares are always available.
I went to buy two tickets for a return to Belfast and was quoted twice what I was expecting and nearly three times what the bus service cost. I was met by rude staff who seemed more interested in reading the paper than selling tickets or providing information. I won't be back.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's not broken just because you failed to book online but by the sounds of it you may not have been too pleasant towards them to begin with.

I've no idea how you have come to that conclusion. Perhaps you'd care to expand?

Hilly Bill · 12-11-2012 09:56PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Let me help you get this right (though I don't believe I was unclear earlier.)
I tried to book tickets online and though they offered a day return option and price, the site would not let me choose any returning train option (maybe a glitch, maybe the 'quota' was filled.)
I went to Connolly, where they quoted 55 euro per person for the day return, even though my child is a child. There were ten people queuing to get on the train with fifteen minutes left before departure. So clearly there was capacity on return trains, otherwise they would not have thought to offer me them at any price (or am I assuming a degree of intelligence beyond the counter staff here?)
I asked if they would match the advertised online price. They refused and told me to take it or leave it. Then went back to reading the Sunday World. I took my business to Busaras instead.
Is that clear enough for you now? The counter staff were rude and unhelpful, the online system didn't work properly, the price quoted was ridiculous, and the net result is that Irish Rail lost two customers, and not just for yesterday but from this point onwards.

No need for the re-post i understood exactly what you said and didnt believe most of it.
When did you try and book on-line? The on-line booking closes an hour and a half before the departure time of the train. Did you try and book a return trip or two single trips, from Dublin to Belfast and the other from Belfast to Dublin?€55 is the return fare for sundays, its €40 during the week. If your child is under 16 and you asked for a child's fare then you would have been quoted a child's fare which is half the adult fare. The booking office is not a market stall and the staff cant just charge you any fare that you want and i dont believe for a minute that they told you to "take it or leave it" or were rude to you in anyway and from your post it comes across that you were the one with the attitude.
Did you fill a feedback form? was there anyone behind you in the queue? So in a nutshell, you arrived at the station with fifteen minutes left before departure and demanded the online fare or a discount when you were told of the cost of the return fare to Belfast?
Net result, IR lose one customer and the booking staff wont have to put up with abuse.

Cavehill Red · 12-11-2012 10:04PM

I don't think it's reasonable for you to accuse me of lying or being abusive when neither is the case.
I came to offer my experience of seeking to travel by rail, which was a shoddy one and which explains to my satisfaction why Irish Rail is failing so badly, as the thread title says.
Having done so, I have you accusing me, with it must be said absolutely no reason to do so, of being abusive to people and other posters misrepresenting me as trying to haggle the price.
I really hope neither of you are Irish Rail staff, as that would confirm that not only do Irish Rail provide a shoddy service of poor value for money, but they are hypersensitive about legitimate criticism too.

Hilly Bill · 12-11-2012 10:08PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

There's no need to misrepresent or paraphrase what I wrote. They refused to honour an advertised price which their website offered. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if they will honour a price advertised and I don't think that can be categorised as haggling at all. Nor would they offer a child fare, despite my understanding being that children's fares are always available.
I went to buy two tickets for a return to Belfast and was quoted twice what I was expecting and nearly three times what the bus service cost. I was met by rude staff who seemed more interested in reading the paper than selling tickets or providing information. I won't be back.

I've no idea how you have come to that conclusion. Perhaps you'd care to expand?

The online price is the price you pay online. The booking office price is the price you pay at the booking office, its simple really. They havent refused to honour any price and the reading the paper bit is just your way of trying to justify a rant which frankly i dont believe. 3 times the cost? Did you say in your earlier post that the bust cost you €40 x 2? Would that make IR price €240?
I can see what happened here, you were rushing for the train got shocked at the price quoted , got annoyed that your haggling skills wasnt up to it , took it out on the booking office staff and stormed off to get the bus dragging Junior behind you vowing not to travel by train again whilst cursing IR to high heaven.
Not related to our Foggy by any chance are you?

Losty Dublin · 12-11-2012 10:23PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

There's no need to misrepresent or paraphrase what I wrote. They refused to honour an advertised price which their website offered. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if they will honour a price advertised and I don't think that can be categorised as haggling at all. Nor would they offer a child fare, despite my understanding being that children's fares are always available.

The website booking form states "online fares from" over the column listing the actual price for the respective train you choose to book; Translink (NIR) also state this on their site. At no stage do either website say that any online fare is the fare offered at the booking office. Online fare are generally cheaper but they offer less flexible than walk up tickets.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I've no idea how you have come to that conclusion. Perhaps you'd care to expand?

Comments about staff being rude to you, comments about "fat controllers", comments about staff reading papers when serving customers, staff making comments at you like "take it or leave it" after you found you can't haggle prices with them.

Not saying any of it did or didn't happen but I don't think you made things easy for yourself TBH.

Hilly Bill · 12-11-2012 10:24PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't think it's reasonable for you to accuse me of lying or being abusive when neither is the case.
I came to offer my experience of seeking to travel by rail, which was a shoddy one and which explains to my satisfaction why Irish Rail is failing so badly, as the thread title says.
Having done so, I have you accusing me, with it must be said absolutely no reason to do so, of being abusive to people and other posters misrepresenting me as trying to haggle the price.
I really hope neither of you are Irish Rail staff, as that would confirm that not only do Irish Rail provide a shoddy service of poor value for money, but they are hypersensitive about legitimate criticism too.

Did you or did you not after being told of the cost of the fare to Belfast ,ask for a reduced fare based on the online price? Thats haggling.
You failed to book a ticket online , reason could be the time that you tried to book online or the return leg of your trip was fully booked or that you tried to book a single ticket back from Belfast. If it was a glitch in the system then you could have cancelled and tried again until you got your booking. No evidence of shoddiness by IR there. You were quoted a fare that you didnt like , still no evidence of shoddiness by IR. You were refused the online fare at the booking office which is the done thing, still no evidence of shoddiness by IR.
Do you wish to tell us when you tried to book?

lil5 · 12-11-2012 10:47PM

1. It's never IR's fault.
2. If by whatever circumstances it is IR's fault, or the fault of any IR employee, or the fault of any IR computer system rule 1applies.
3. IR's staff is never rude, they're always right.

LXFlyer · 12-11-2012 10:54PM

With respect Cavehill Red the online price is a special online offer to incentivise people to book online.

To be fair I think expecting station staff to offer you a price that is an exclusive online price is really stretching things too far. The website could not be clearer about the difference in the fares available and clearly lists booking office fares separately.

Why you think that you should be offered a discount by (effectively) junior station staff is somewhat beyond me. You didn't book in time to avail of the offer, end of story. Why you felt that they owed you an apology for this is also rather bizarre. No excuse for abruptness/rudeness on their part, but they are from my reading just doing their jobs whilst you have completely unrealistic expectations.

Try that approach on Great Britain on a longer distance trip and you'll be in for a shock.

And before I get accused, I have no connection with Irish Rail.

Hilly Bill · 12-11-2012 11:09PM

lil5 wrote: »

1. It's never IR's fault.
2. If by whatever circumstances it is IR's fault, or the fault of any IR employee, or the fault of any IR computer system rule 1applies.
3. IR's staff is never rude, they're always right.

Its their fault WHEN it is their fault.

Losty Dublin · 12-11-2012 11:23PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its their fault WHEN it is their fault.

And to some people it's always Irish Rail's fault and not theirs

mickydoomsux · 13-11-2012 12:51AM

I deal with people like Cavehill every day of the week.

They glance at the website, see "tickets from €9.99" or whatever, completely ignore that it says that these are online only prices, don't bother to check the section of the website with the walk-up fares, stride up to the booking office with a tenner in hand and lose the plot when they are quoted the actual fare.

Then you get the speech about how it's a rip-off and any attempt to explain what went wrong is completely ignored because you are obviously the one who sets the prices of the tickets and are a jobsworth bollix.

Also, i wonder why your child wasn't offered a child fare? Are they 17 because the fact that an adult fare applies in this situation is readily available information.

Also, i'm not sure i believe your story about newspapers being read by staff while they are in the middle of selling tickets in one of the busier stations in the country.

dowlingm · 13-11-2012 04:17AM

parsi wrote: »

If someone could photoshop this I'd be grateful - it's a killer phrase.

Just don't make the clockface a Swiss Federal Railways one - even Apple had to pay those guys their cut.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-11-2012 03:18PM

LeftBlank wrote: »

...because Irish Rail get their fuel for free, right?

Well the DART only uses wind generated electricity don'tcha know :pac:

Still can't get over the prices quoted here.
You can wander up on the day and buy a sail-rail ticket from any UK mainline station to an Irish ferry port for less.

Grandeeod · 13-11-2012 04:44PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I really hope neither of you are Irish Rail staff, as that would confirm that not only do Irish Rail provide a shoddy service of poor value for money, but they are hypersensitive about legitimate criticism too.

From my understanding and reading of these forums, the posters you are referring to are rail enthusiasts and at least one of them is the son of a former rail employee. (based on info in the forums) Neither of them would be unbiased enough to engage with you in a manner that would be detrimental to Irish Rail.

Im a long long long time reader and it is blatantly obvious that some posters here (and they all appear to be enthusiasts) try to belittle and make fun of other people not so knowledgable about railways. Personally I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the staff were rude and unhelpful, having been on the receiving end of it many times.

Piece of advice cavehill, don't come here looking for a sympathetic ear to complaints about Irish Rail. Its their online response centre at the best of times.:D

corktina · 13-11-2012 05:04PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

From my understanding and reading of these forums, the posters you are referring to are rail enthusiasts and at least one of them is the son of a former rail employee. (based on info in the forums) Neither of them would be unbiased enough to engage with you in a manner that would be detrimental to Irish Rail.

Im a long long long time reader and it is blatantly obvious that some posters here (and they all appear to be enthusiasts) try to belittle and make fun of other people not so knowledgable about railways. Personally I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the staff were rude and unhelpful, having been on the receiving end of it many times.

Piece of advice cavehill, don't come here looking for a sympathetic ear to complaints about Irish Rail. Its their online response centre at the best of times.:D

huh? If you think us enthusiasts on here are apologists for IE, then you didn't read too many threads!

Grandeeod · 13-11-2012 05:32PM

corktina wrote: »

huh? If you think us enthusiasts on here are apologists for IE, then you didn't read too many threads!

With respect, please read my post again. I said some posters. Some does not mean all. I know you are by no means an apologist. I trust this clarifies my point.

Judgement Day · 13-11-2012 05:38PM

It's a chicken and egg situation with ticket offices or is it? I mean do CIE deliberately pick the most ignorant staff to man their Dublin area ticket offices, or do they pick staff who are normal at the outset and who become ignorant through over exposure to moronic passengers. A bit of both I suspect. How's the situation in Maynooth these days?

Hilly Bill · 13-11-2012 06:15PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

From my understanding and reading of these forums, the posters you are referring to are rail enthusiasts and at least one of them is the son of a former rail employee. (based on info in the forums) Neither of them would be unbiased enough to engage with you in a manner that would be detrimental to Irish Rail.

Im a long long long time reader and it is blatantly obvious that some posters here (and they all appear to be enthusiasts) try to belittle and make fun of other people not so knowledgable about railways. Personally I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the staff were rude and unhelpful, having been on the receiving end of it many times.

Piece of advice cavehill, don't come here looking for a sympathetic ear to complaints about Irish Rail. Its their online response centre at the best of times.:D

I think i can tell who may be train enthusiasts on here and i wouldnt be on their xmas card list but from all the disagreements ive had on here and from reading the discussions, i havent read anything from anyone that looks like its making fun of anyone that isnt clued up about railways and that includes from me.
From experience of being in line at barriers and ticket offices etc ive seen what these guys have to put up with daily from passengers who think its ok to haggle the price of tickets and think its rude when they dont succeed to people who get offended when they get caught without a valid ticket and seem to think its Irish rail's fault and who also think its Irish Rail's fault that they missed the train because they arrived late at the station .
If you anyone feels that they have been treated badly in anyway then ask for a feedback form and fill it in and hand it in.
Tell us in what way were the IR staff rude and unhelpful towards you? explain the situation.

Hilly Bill · 13-11-2012 06:17PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's a chicken and egg situation with ticket offices or is it? I mean do CIE deliberately pick the most ignorant staff to man their Dublin area ticket offices, or do they pick staff who are normal at the outset and who become ignorant through over exposure to moronic passengers. A bit of both I suspect. How's the situation in Maynooth these days?

Fair comment

.

Hilly Bill · 13-11-2012 06:19PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

With respect, please read my post again. I said some posters. Some does not mean all. I know you are by no means an apologist. I trust this clarifies my point.

I see that you didnt say SOME Irish rail staff in your post

.

Grandeeod · 13-11-2012 06:44PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think i can tell who may be train enthusiasts on here and i wouldnt be on their xmas card list but from all the disagreements ive had on here and from reading the discussions, i havent read anything from anyone that looks like its making fun of anyone that isnt clued up about railways and that includes from me.
From experience of being in line at barriers and ticket offices etc ive seen what these guys have to put up with daily from passengers who think its ok to haggle the price of tickets and think its rude when they dont succeed to people who get offended when they get caught without a valid ticket and seem to think its Irish rail's fault and who also think its Irish Rail's fault that they missed the train because they arrived late at the station .
If you anyone feels that they have been treated badly in anyway then ask for a feedback form and fill it in and hand it in.
Tell us in what way were the IR staff rude and unhelpful towards you? explain the situation.

We'll agree to differ on who makes fun of who and I don't have time to pull up some examples, but I'll happily highlight some examples for you as they happen.

Your personal experience with staff may be positive, but mine has left an awful lot to be desired. I have never haggled with staff or been rude to them, yet I regularly failed to get as much as a thank you at ticket desks, found staff on the end of a phone arrogant and was made feel like I was a nuisance with my query. I can't leave out the tatty uniforms and yes I have witnessed staff members reading newspapers while they sold me a ticket without hardly looking up. In fact only this summer gone, I had to contend with one chap who was tucking into fish and chips in the ticket office. These things are happening and nobody has the right to say they aren't or make assumptions about other peoples complaints or issues. Yes people can get a ticketing system wrong, but it does not give Irish Rail staff the right to be rude.

Ive lost count of how many feedback forms and calls Ive made over the years. Irish Rail are beyond help.

sligotrain · 13-11-2012 06:44PM

Can't comment about how Maynooth is now, though it was a hot topic on the RUI boards a long while back. My experience of IR ticket window staff is mixed, some good, some bad. Most of my tickets are bought online these days so I use ticket machines these days.

It is however worth pointing out that anyone charging up to a ticket window and demanding a last minute discount that doesn't exist is truly wasting their time. The ticket window staff do not have the authority to haggle any prices - the ticket systems are set as they are and that really is it.

Get an online advance purchase ticket and you may well get a bargain.