orange provocation

Fuinseog

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Oh? How? I have heard sectarian comments at Celtic matches but they never went unchallenged.

i went to a charlie and the bhuoys concert, which was basically a IRA gathering.
all you have to do is pick up a celtic supporters songbook.

another thing is that folks here bitch how intolerant the nordies are but try wearing a rangers jersey on the streets of Dublin!

Fuinseog

PauloMN wrote: »

The OO, if you look at the rules of the organisation, has sectarianism enshrined in its very being.

Your second comment.... lol, nice try!

the english monarchy is equally sectarian. I do not deny that the OO are sectarian, but wonder if Irish Catholics are not equally intolerant.

PauloMN

Fuinseog wrote: »

i went to a charlie and the bhuoys concert, which was basically a IRA gathering.
all you have to do is pick up a celtic supporters songbook.

another thing is that folks here bitch how intolerant the nordies are but try wearing a rangers jersey on the streets of Dublin!

Charlie and the Bhoys concert?!?!? FFS, what did you expect? Are Charlie and the Bhoys an official organisation now?

C'mon now, this is getting ridiculous.

The football thing is really going off topic by the way, and is not even relevant. The OP is referring to a particular incident, and the discussion is how such an incident can happen/be allowed to happen. I don't see how individuals in football shirts have anything to do with it.

fasttalkerchat

Fuinseog wrote: »

i went to a charlie and the bhuoys concert, which was basically a IRA gathering.
all you have to do is pick up a celtic supporters songbook.

another thing is that folks here bitch how intolerant the nordies are but try wearing a rangers jersey on the streets of Dublin!

A rebel concert would be political... but what happened that was sectarian?

celtictiger32

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I know one who masks it quite well. He believes that the border should be redrawn and that there should be a state for Catholics and one for Protestants similar to India and Pakistan. He has no problem with Irish people as long as they accept that Norelann Irelann is his country... is this still bigotry? Probably.

there could be a compromise there, if we conceded them rockall and let them move there;)

Fuinseog wrote: »

i went to a charlie and the bhuoys concert, which was basically a IRA gathering.
all you have to do is pick up a celtic supporters songbook.

another thing is that folks here bitch how intolerant the nordies are but try wearing a rangers jersey on the streets of Dublin!

ira symphatisers and ira activists are two different things

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Which is the point, you are either for that or against it. Turn a blind eye to it and it will eventually take the lid off the box.

What lid and what box? I've no problem with any sectarian organisation holding whatever beliefs - as long as they don't harm anyone in the process. Is the lid going to be 'taken off' Opus Dei any time soon? What are the dire consequences be for my having turned a blind eye to them all these years?

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

With a drop from over 100,000 members in 1968 to less than 30,000 and falling today, it won't be long until the thugs are running it.

Hmm; NI Catholics who attended mass weekly:

1998 - 70%
2009 - 34.1%

Seems like the OO are doing something right, and beating the odds.

neil_hosey

alastair wrote: »

Hmm; NI Catholics who attended mass weekly:

1998 - 70%
2009 - 34.1%

Seems like the OO are doing something right, and beating the odds.

the orange order is a sectarian organisation. What has that got to do with catholics? i cant believe after so many pages you are still trying to justify either this organisation or what they do every year.

they are pure and utter scum of the earth.

PauloMN

alastair wrote: »

Hmm; NI Catholics who attended mass weekly:

1998 - 70%
2009 - 34.1%

Seems like the OO are doing something right, and beating the odds.

Yep, they're now accepting the dregs of society into their wee club, where they were a bit fussier before. Christian? Meh, so long as you're a loyal Ulster prod, you'll do. Temperance? Ach, don't worry about that ****e.

karma_

alastair wrote: »

Hmm; NI Catholics who attended mass weekly:

1998 - 70%
2009 - 34.1%

Seems like the OO are doing something right, and beating the odds.

They are doing something right, they're dwindling.

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

They are doing something right, they're dwindling.

Slower than the competition all the same.

alastair

neil_hosey wrote: »

the orange order is a sectarian organisation. What has that got to do with catholics? i cant believe after so many pages you are still trying to justify either this organisation or what they do every year.

they are pure and utter scum of the earth.

But - they're doing pretty well in terms of holding their support - as a religious organisation - when you look at the context. That's what comparing the decline of the participation in both camps provides.

karma_

alastair wrote: »

Slower than the competition all the same.

That Catholics in NI are seeing the irrelevancy of religion quicker that the Orange Order is not an argument in favour of Orangism, it's the opposite.

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

That Catholics in NI are seeing the irrelevancy of religion quicker that the Orange Order is not an argument in favour of Orangism, it's the opposite.

Who's arguing in favour of Orangism? - I'm simply pointing out that they're dwindling at a slower rate than those around them - which you wouldn't know by the doom-mongering about their future in this thread.

Chuck Stone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAcnDevkTnc

neil_hosey

alastair wrote: »

Who's arguing in favour of Orangism? - I'm simply pointing out that they're dwindling at a slower rate than those around them - which you wouldn't know by the doom-mongering about their future in this thread.

The quicker both sides realise religion is a crock of ****, the better!

karma_

alastair wrote: »

Who's arguing in favour of Orangism? - I'm simply pointing out that they're dwindling at a slower rate than those around them - which you wouldn't know by the doom-mongering about their future in this thread.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Earlier in the thread when it was pointed out that the marching season is not half of what it used to be, you were telling us that the OO was as strong as ever. Which is it?

Isn't it also a tad hypocritical to tell those who are provoked by the OO to ignore it when you seemingly can't even ignore a single post in this thread with which you disagree?

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

Now you're contradicting yourself. Earlier in the thread when it was pointed out that the marching season is not half of what it used to be, you were telling us that the OO was as strong as ever. Which is it?

Isn't it also a tad hypocritical to tell those who are provoked by the OO to ignore it when you seemingly can't even ignore a single post in this thread with which you disagree?

I said that the Twelfth seemed as strong as ever - which is an indication of popular support for the OO - as opposed to active membership. Hundreds of thousands out on the streets? Seems pretty vibrant by any measure.

And, no. Glad to help.

Fuinseog

neil_hosey wrote: »

the orange order is a sectarian organisation. What has that got to do with catholics? i cant believe after so many pages you are still trying to justify either this organisation or what they do every year.

they are pure and utter scum of the earth.

not sure if those involved in the affray were the elite of NI society. should we say all Dubliners are scumbags because a few shinners and celtic fans try to burn down the city in 2006.
those who wear the sash embrace a certain sectarian culture that is part of their heritage, just like those who support Celtic are still at war with the prods.

karma_

alastair wrote: »

I said that the Twelfth seemed as strong as ever - which is an indication of popular support for the OO - as opposed to active membership. Hundreds of thousands out on the streets? Seems pretty vibrant by any measure.

And, no. Glad to help.

You're spouting opinion as if it were fact.

If you think this twelfth was 'vibrant' you should have paid us a visit 20 years ago.

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

You're spouting opinion as if it were fact.

You're disputing that hundreds of thousands of people participated in the twelfth events? Because that certainly is the fact of the matter.

karma_ wrote: »

If you think this twelfth was 'vibrant' you should have paid us a visit 20 years ago.

Sounds fabulous! Come to think - I can vouch for Lundy's Day in '94, but that's not really the same scale - is it?

karma_

alastair wrote: »

You're disputing that hundreds of thousands of people participated in the twelfth events? Because that certainly is the fact of the matter.

Disputing nothing of the sort. I'm simply saying that each year, the parades get smaller.

Sounds fabulous! Come to think - I can vouch for Lundy's Day in '94, but that's not really the same scale - is it?

When I was a child, I was a passenger in my fathers car and we came upon a parade of extremely angry orangemen who proceeded to literally pull the drivers door off the car in front of us.

So not at all fabulous, scary and intimidating I would say.

Fuinseog

the 12th is all about getting pissed. as is paddies day. these days there are more drunken affrays on the 17th march than the 12th july.

Happyman42

karma_ wrote: »

Disputing nothing of the sort. I'm simply saying that each year, the parades get smaller.



When I was a child, I was a passenger in my fathers car and we came upon a parade of extremely angry orangemen who proceeded to literally pull the drivers door off the car in front of us.

So not at all fabulous, scary and intimidating I would say.

My southern reg car drove up behind a small parade on a quiet country road in Fermanagh, 20 of the saddest, wretched looking men (no women) marching on a country road in their bowlers and sashes. Nothing wrong with their hate though as they banged the roof of the car, and roared abuse and spat and refused to let us through. The wife and the kids in the back (all Protestants btw) where terrified.
5 minutes of it, had they started on the windows or trying to get into the car, there would have been a few less of them. Unbelievable, uncontrolled aggression because of a numberplate. That is the level of brain activity you are dealing with. And to think that they were probably coming from a church service praising the love and mercy of Jesus Christ!

steddyeddy

Happyman42 wrote: »

My southern reg car drove up behind a small parade on a quiet country road in Fermanagh, 20 of the saddest, wretched looking men (no women) marching on a country road in their bowlers and sashes. Nothing wrong with their hate though as they banged the roof of the car, and roared abuse and spat and refused to let us through. The wife and the kids in the back (all Protestants btw) where terrified.
5 minutes of it, had they started on the windows or trying to get into the car, there would have been a few less of them. Unbelievable, uncontrolled aggression because of a numberplate. That is the level of brain activity you are dealing with. And to think that they were probably coming from a church service praising the love and mercy of Jesus Christ!

As I say orange men are not protestent. I would find the suggestion that they are offensive.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

The wife and the kids in the back (all Protestants btw) where terrified.

You shouldn't have been kidnapping Protestant kids in the first place.

SocSocPol

alastair wrote: »

You shouldn't have been kidnapping Protestant kids in the first place.

What kind of snide remark is that, because it is not funny, just appears trollish and inflamatory.

alastair

SocSocPol wrote: »

What kind of snide remark is that, because it is not funny, just appears trollish and inflamatory.

Your mileage may vary.

'inflamatory' - really?

Fuinseog

Happyman42 wrote: »

My southern reg car drove up behind a small parade on a quiet country road in Fermanagh, 20 of the saddest, wretched looking men (no women) marching on a country road in their bowlers and sashes. Nothing wrong with their hate though as they banged the roof of the car, and roared abuse and spat and refused to let us through. The wife and the kids in the back (all Protestants btw) where terrified.
5 minutes of it, had they started on the windows or trying to get into the car, there would have been a few less of them. Unbelievable, uncontrolled aggression because of a numberplate. That is the level of brain activity you are dealing with. And to think that they were probably coming from a church service praising the love and mercy of Jesus Christ!

at the love ulster parade a car was torched cos it had a NI reg. listen to the shinners go on about the prods and you will soon realise its no different.

the hate in NI is very much on both sides, yet presented here in the media as solely protestant.

we had our own little pogrom against protestants in Wexford in the fifties.

karma_

alastair wrote: »

'inflamatory' - really?

You're here long enough now to know that's not allowed anymore.