Red Luas line should be closed

KD345

I had two bad experiences last week. I boarded a tram in the IFSC at 5.30pm where there was a gang of teenagers shouting, standing on seats and causing disruption. I got off at Abbey Street, which had two security staff, to take the next tram. Unfortunately, this tram had junkies smoking and drinking. This was traveling at peak time. It's really awful to see.

swarlb

I used to live and work in the Stonybatter area in the 70/80's. It had a great 'village' feel to it. There were issues of course, but nothing like you'd read about these days. I left in the late 90's, just before Smithfield and the Luas were redeveloped.
A few points. During those early years, I made my first trip to New York. As is usually the case, the first few days were sightseeing. I can tell you, I was genuinely terrified for my life when I casually got onto the Subway, for no reason than to travel around. Apart from the state of the carraiges, there was a total feeling of menace. From the passengers who clearly went about their business as quickly as possible, with no eye contact. There was the constant groupings of what could only be described as 'predators', waiting to pounce on anyone who looked remotely fearful. I made a mental note then and there, never to return.
But return I did, in 1999 to ring in the New Year. And, while I was apprehensive at first, it soon passed. I could not believe the transformation.
Early last year I had to make a trip to the city. I parked my car at the Red Cow, and took my first trip on the Luas (and my last). From the time I spent waiting for the tram, till I arrived at the Point, I actually never thought the journey would end. I actually did not use my return ticket, and booked a taxi to bring me back to my car.
Now, I'm no shrinking violet, I'm over 6' tall, and reasonably well built, but nothing would make me get on a Luas again. From the few people I saw vomiting, to the language, and the constant shouting up and down the carriage (maybe drugs make you deaf, I don't know), but the air of menace I experienced in New York was all too familiar.
If they can change the Subway, I'm certain they can change the Luas, but I don't think we have the will, or the resources to do it.

Heikki

darkman2 wrote: »

I think I am in a majority that calls for the line to be dismantled. Anti social behaviour and far worse is the norm on this tram line. Dubliners are intimidated and what of tourists? It goes through the city centre - it is embarrassing and disgraceful. Of course it ferries scum (for free) from Tallaght to the Children's court (great planning that eh?) and no matter what security is on it it will not make any difference. The scumbags have the run of it. When the judge let's the feral children out after 10 convictions they simply hop on the tram and go home (not paying of course and intimidating passengers). I think the line should be closed because it is a free ride for scum in and out of our capital city and addicts looking for the clinic behind Clearys. Until the council use their heads I don't think this line should remain open. I think the line is dangerous and represents an appalling image of this city to tourists who are also at risk of harm.

Only a matter of time before someone is killed within a tram on that line. Mark my words that will happen. Anyone that cannot see the security implications with this line is a complete idiot and clearly has never used the tram.

I nearly got jumped by a gang of ten a while ago. They called me an undercover garda and surrounded me arounf 8PM. They were passionatly hateful in their actions and took intimatation to It's max. I couldn't exit the tram fro fear of being followed and being cut or beaten.

pappe

Once I was in Belgard with my girlfriend waiting for the Luas until a gang of teenagers started intimidating us and they somehow invited my girlfriend to follow them. That was on a Sunday at around 6pm. We ignored them since the very beginning but they were still intimidating us (and expecting a reaction somehow) and when I started keeping my girlfriend closer to me because of the possible danger I had the feeling that a couple of them could have been aggressive towards us. Luckily they jumped all into the next Luas after 5 minutes that lasted like an eternity for us. There is no need to add that probably those kids were not paying the fare for taking the luas.
I reported the event to Luas customer care and they told me that I should have used the disposal at the Belgard station for emergency and ask for help. I believe that if those kids would have seen me doing that I would have been beaten or my girlfriend could have been raped perhaps (this happens nearly every day in Dublin, I don’t think I am exaggerating here).
I notified Veolia authorities that those dangerous people (easy to identify) are usually not paying for luas tickets, as they jump out when they see orange vests. Veolia told me that they are working hard to make controls stricter but all I can see is decent people being fined and no change in regards of the dangerous troublemaker not paying the fare. Seriously...when luas ticket inspectors need to deal with any of them they let them go without making any effort, even if the security guards are around, I witnessed that several times.
As a luas customer I am paying around 70 euro per month for commuting and I am experiencing nasty and dangerous situation very often where also my personal safety is involved...is it fair? The big stickers in the driver cabin luas explained that while Luas authorities have the right to ask passengers for a ticket but also they commit to provide passengers with a pleasant and safe journey at the top of the list!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

They should do it like they do in Berlin. Have plain clothes inspectors, preferably with powers of arrest. Identify where the scum live and take the fine from their parents benefits. The parents knock the ****e out the scum for costing them boozing money and all is right with the world. Tragic I know but how are you supposed to deal with the types of animals regularly seen on the Red Line. They act the way they do because they see the Luas as a soft target.

Laneyh

pappe wrote: »

Once I was in Belgard with my girlfriend waiting for the Luas until a gang of teenagers started intimidating us and they somehow invited my girlfriend to follow them. That was on a Sunday at around 6pm. We ignored them since the very beginning but they were still intimidating us (and expecting a reaction somehow) and when I started keeping my girlfriend closer to me because of the possible danger I had the feeling that a couple of them could have been aggressive towards us. Luckily they jumped all into the next Luas after 5 minutes that lasted like an eternity for us. There is no need to add that probably those kids were not paying the fare for taking the luas.
I reported the event to Luas customer care and they told me that I should have used the disposal at the Belgard station for emergency and ask for help. I believe that if those kids would have seen me doing that I would have been beaten or my girlfriend could have been raped perhaps (this happens nearly every day in Dublin, I don’t think I am exaggerating here).
I notified Veolia authorities that those dangerous people (easy to identify) are usually not paying for luas tickets, as they jump out when they see orange vests. Veolia told me that they are working hard to make controls stricter but all I can see is decent people being fined and no change in regards of the dangerous troublemaker not paying the fare. Seriously...when luas ticket inspectors need to deal with any of them they let them go without making any effort, even if the security guards are around, I witnessed that several times.
As a luas customer I am paying around 70 euro per month for commuting and I am experiencing nasty and dangerous situation very often where also my personal safety is involved...is it fair? The big stickers in the driver cabin luas explained that while Luas authorities have the right to ask passengers for a ticket but also they commit to provide passengers with a pleasant and safe journey at the top of the list!

yeah pressing the emergency speaker at the Luas stop isn't really a viable option in that scenario. It definitely would have made the situation worse for you.
I've only seen the emergency button on the tram itself used once. A junkie collapsed and kinder people than myself tried to help him.
They hit the button on the speaker to speak to the driver and got no resposnse. So that doesnt' fill me with confidence that it would work out any better in a different situation.

Also, if someone is threatening you or fighting the last thing you want to do is broadcast via speaker that you are reporting them. Unless they can provide security staff immediately you would most likely get the hiding of your life

Laneyh

n97 mini wrote: »

I got off at Smithfield recently at about 3pm on a Saturday afternoon. I literally stepped out into sea of junkies and winos, nearly like a scene from a zombie apocalypse movie, which was quite intimidating in itself, so I turned around and got back on again and got off at Abbey St.

Wow! it's saying something when the Abbey St stop is the safer option.
It has gone to the dogs at several of the stops at this stage.
George's dock to the Point is probably the safest segment.

Laneyh

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Scumbags causing mayhem have no fear of authority, at all. They like to provoke them I think, as a pastime.

So they are turfed off the bus/Luas by the Gardai or Security. Names taken. Then what?

Nothing, they get on the next tram and do it all over again.

Maybe if places like ....

The Children's Court,
The Merchants quay drug centre
The drug treatment centres in the city centre
Etc. Etc.

Were moved to industrial estates on the outskirts, then the scobies might not need to use public transport for kicks.

Not transport related, but that Merchants Quay centre right across the road from the Four Courts and right at a bus stop is a total disgrace, location wise. I've seen commuters waiting at that stop, and tourists back off with fear at some of the carry on there.

But we can't say anything, because it's not politically correct to criticise drug addicts, despite the screaming and roaring they do outside and on the way to these places, while the rest of us try to get in and out of the city for work or pleasure, while paying through our taxes for all this drug rehab for these people.

God I am sick of it.

Wouldn't they still need to use public transport to access the industrial estates? Is that not just moving the problem rather than addressing it?

pappe

Laneyh wrote: »

George's dock to the Point is probably the safest segment.

Which is 5 minutes (if not less) journey out of a total 60 minutes from The Point to Saggart/Tallaght. But at least you can say you feel safe for 5 minutes

pappe

Laneyh wrote: »

Also, if someone is threatening you or fighting the last thing you want to do is broadcast via speaker that you are reporting them. Unless they can provide security staff immediately you would most likely get the hiding of your life

Of course...I would feel like Mr Bean if in a similar situation if I would go to broadcast it through that speaker...maybe when it is not even working!

hardCopy

pappe wrote: »

Of course...I would feel like Mr Bean if in a similar situation if I would go to broadcast it through that speaker...maybe when it is not even working!

Reminds me of this:

hatrickpatrick

Typical Irish solution. Ban something altogether just because some people misuse them.
You know that story at the start of the Bible where God is about to destroy a bunch of unspellable cities but declares "If I find even ten good people there I won't do it"? In Ireland it's more like "There might be hundreds of good people, but if you find even one bad person, smite the whole place."

It's how we deal with everything from fireworks to voicemail hacking - absolutely no regard to the silent majority of ordinary people who aren't w@nkers.

ThisRegard

pappe wrote: »

my girlfriend could have been raped perhaps (this happens nearly every day in Dublin, I don’t think I am exaggerating here).

Women getting gang raped at public transport stops every day ?

SimonQuinlank

Laneyh wrote: »

Wouldn't they still need to use public transport to access the industrial estates? Is that not just moving the problem rather than addressing it?

Go away with your logic,ban it to hell!

Rabble rabble rabble,zombie junkie gang rapes etc and so forth...

DellyBelly

ThisRegard wrote: »

Women getting gang raped at public transport stops every day ?

I see it every day myself while in the city. A girl stands at a public transport and she gets raped within thirty seconds it's terrible Joe!!!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

DellyBelly wrote: »

I see it every day myself while in the city. A girl stands at a public transport and she gets raped within thirty seconds it's terrible Joe!!!

Shure,shure go on.

KungPao

I live in Tallaght and go to the city centre every weekday and at least once on weekends. I get the bus. Much quicker, safer, and more comfortable than a cold tram going 20KPH and stopping every 2 seconds to allow more rats on board who haven't paid for a ticket.

I find a LUAS trip to be very frustrating overall - Green line included which I used regulary last year. Too slow, too many stops, freezing in the winter with doors opening all the time, ticket checks all the time (but usually only for normal fare paying users like myself, the dirtbags don't need to pay), uncomfortable seats with a bad very layout etc.

On trips from the Square to Abbey St. and vice versa, Iv'e seen pretty everything that has been mentioned on this thread including:

A delightful couple of sub humans smoking heroin.
Charming teens running and shouting while being intimidating.
Travellers and Roma etc. hiding and looking out for tickets inspectors etc and just strolling off and getting the next tram to avoid getting their collars felt. The inspectors see them but don't follow them.
Oulfellas plastered with bags of cans at 9am.
Dirtbags barely concious.
Smoking and drinking in general by absolute wastes of space.

Argh.

My bus is like a haven compared to the Red LUAS.

KungPao

ThisRegard wrote: »

Women getting gang raped at public transport stops every day ?

Im sure he means in general. You never know what scum are capable of and you should never underestimate it.

Front page of todays Echo newspaper:

Teenager Raped and Beaten in Public Park</headline>

She was walking in Fettercairn (quite possibly from the LUAS near there) at 8 in the evening, not far from Belgard at all, and raped by someone "not known to her". She was under 16 apparently.

ceekay74

darkman2 wrote: »

Anyone that cannot see the security implications with this line is a complete idiot and clearly has never used the tram.

Complete idiot?

dfx-

ThisRegard wrote: »

Women getting gang raped at public transport stops every day ?

I did kind of stop reading after that as it called into question every other detail.

KungPao wrote: »

I live in Tallaght and go to the city centre every weekday and at least once on weekends. I get the bus. Much quicker, safer, and more comfortable than a cold tram going 20KPH and stopping every 2 seconds to allow more rats on board who haven't paid for a ticket.

...

My bus is like a haven compared to the Red LUAS.

This is the smart way to travel from Luas served areas.

davidfitz22

I find ironically tallaght is the more quiet end of that line, it's once it hits areas like fatima and james's is where the real scum get on/off

L.A.D

Edit

cgcsb

pappe wrote: »

Once I was in Belgard with my girlfriend waiting for the Luas until a gang of teenagers started intimidating us and they somehow invited my girlfriend to follow them. That was on a Sunday at around 6pm. We ignored them since the very beginning but they were still intimidating us (and expecting a reaction somehow) and when I started keeping my girlfriend closer to me because of the possible danger I had the feeling that a couple of them could have been aggressive towards us. Luckily they jumped all into the next Luas after 5 minutes that lasted like an eternity for us. There is no need to add that probably those kids were not paying the fare for taking the luas.
I reported the event to Luas customer care and they told me that I should have used the disposal at the Belgard station for emergency and ask for help. I believe that if those kids would have seen me doing that I would have been beaten or my girlfriend could have been raped perhaps (this happens nearly every day in Dublin, I don’t think I am exaggerating here).
I notified Veolia authorities that those dangerous people (easy to identify) are usually not paying for luas tickets, as they jump out when they see orange vests. Veolia told me that they are working hard to make controls stricter but all I can see is decent people being fined and no change in regards of the dangerous troublemaker not paying the fare. Seriously...when luas ticket inspectors need to deal with any of them they let them go without making any effort, even if the security guards are around, I witnessed that several times.
As a luas customer I am paying around 70 euro per month for commuting and I am experiencing nasty and dangerous situation very often where also my personal safety is involved...is it fair? The big stickers in the driver cabin luas explained that while Luas authorities have the right to ask passengers for a ticket but also they commit to provide passengers with a pleasant and safe journey at the top of the list!

drama lama

AlekSmart

cgcsb wrote: »

drama lama

No Drama at all,just a normal sounding account of an ordinary having a first experience with the savages.....happens all the time...nothing to see...move along...everything is grand

pappe

KungPao wrote: »

Im sure he means in general. You never know what scum are capable of and you should never underestimate it.

Front page of todays Echo newspaper:

Teenager Raped and Beaten in Public Park</headline>

She was walking in Fettercairn (quite possibly from the LUAS near there) at 8 in the evening, not far from Belgard at all, and raped by someone "not known to her". She was under 16 apparently.

I meant in the city + suburbs! Thanks for claryfing it. Exactly. Isn't it true that this is happening pretty much every day? I read The Journal and I see such news on a daily basis

Heikki

KungPao wrote: »

I live in Tallaght and go to the city centre every weekday and at least once on weekends. I get the bus. Much quicker, safer, and more comfortable than a cold tram going 20KPH and stopping every 2 seconds to allow more rats on board who haven't paid for a ticket.

I find a LUAS trip to be very frustrating overall - Green line included which I used regulary last year. Too slow, too many stops, freezing in the winter with doors opening all the time, ticket checks all the time (but usually only for normal fare paying users like myself, the dirtbags don't need to pay), uncomfortable seats with a bad very layout etc.

On trips from the Square to Abbey St. and vice versa, Iv'e seen pretty everything that has been mentioned on this thread including:

A delightful couple of sub humans smoking heroin.
Charming teens running and shouting while being intimidating.
Travellers and Roma etc. hiding and looking out for tickets inspectors etc and just strolling off and getting the next tram to avoid getting their collars felt. The inspectors see them but don't follow them.
Oulfellas plastered with bags of cans at 9am.
Dirtbags barely concious.
Smoking and drinking in general by absolute wastes of space.

Argh.

My bus is like a haven compared to the Red LUAS.

Seeing as you are a princess, godly modal of society a royal parade should grace your each and every fantastic voyage from 'the square to abbey st.'.. It's such a shame

Heikki

ceekay74 wrote: »

Complete idiot?

Haha.. As opossed to an idiot who has suffered amputations I'm sure

Grandeeod

Heikki wrote: »

Seeing as you are a princess, godly modal of society a royal parade should grace your each and every fantastic voyage from 'the square to abbey st.'.. It's such a shame

So you prefer the "absolutely no problem on the Red Line" viewpoint?

Heikki

Grandeeod wrote: »

So you prefer the "absolutely no problem on the Red Line" viewpoint?

I never said that.. I have been through drama many times always between the canal and James'.. Exactly the same occurs on certain bus routes

dowlingm

Given that LUAS, as a 40m vehicle, carries or has the capacity to carry far more people than a bus, it makes sense to target resources at reducing antisocial activity on it and against subsidiary infrastructure such as shelters and TVMs. That enforcement pattern could then be used as a template for further action on DB services. However, corporate boundaries between RPA and DB will make this concerted action more bureaucratic than it should be.