Red Luas line should be closed

LeinsterDub

Prehaps they should close a few key stops? It happens from time to time in Ballymun and Finglas on the buses where they won't go in the area and it only ever seems to take 1 or 2 days before the behaviour is corrected

coylemj

Was on the Luas red line one afternoon, went from Abbey St. towards Heuston Station. Buying a ticket from the machine in Abbey St., I was the subject of unsolicited 'assistance' from a drug addict who insisted on showing me how the machine worked. I know he was a drug addict before anyone asks because he volunteered that information while pressing the buttons on the machine for me. I didn't feel threatened or anything but paid him off with 50c or a euro to get rid of him.

There was three security guys clad all in black on the Luas when it arrived and we set off for Jervis St. At the next stop, tourists were being subjected to the same hassle from beggars & drug addicts while trying to operate the ticket machine, not one of the three security guys standing on the Luas bothered to get off and get rid of them or at least tell them to stop harassing the tourists. These were tourists who should have boarded the Luas I was on but they couldn't because they were trying to buy tickets from a confusing machine and all the while with Dublin scumbags trying to tell them how to operate the machine.

And if the Luas operator presumably thinks the ticket machines are easy to use, why is there almost permanently an official standing at the one outside Heuston Station to show people how to buy a ticket? It's the fact that people not familiar with the machines take so long to figure them out that makes them fertile territory for beggars and drug addicts to hang around them.

mikemac1

coylemj wrote: »

paid him off with 50c or a euro to get rid of him.

Sorry but you are sort of contributing to the problem

coylemj

mikemac1 wrote: »

Sorry but you are sort of contributing to the problem

Yes, I agree but the guy who approached me had obviously refined his technique into a non-threatening style and he did actually help me out. I was staring blankly at the machine and with a couple of finger hits on the menus he had me on the right screen for my ticket.

If the machines were easy to use these people wouldn't have the opportunity they do.

I am pie

coylemj wrote: »

Yes, I agree but the guy who approached me had obviously refined his technique into a non-threatening style and he did actually help me out. I was staring blankly at the machine and with a couple of finger hits on the menus he had me on the right screen for my ticket.

If the machines were easy to use these people wouldn't have the opportunity they do.

Is there not a big map in the middle of the screen where you tap your destination and pay the amount stated. I dunno how it could get much easier !

coylemj

I am pie wrote: »

Is there not a big map in the middle of the screen where you tap your destination and pay the amount stated. I dunno how it could get much easier !

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If the machines are so easy to use, how come there is usually an official Luas representative at the machine outside Heuston Station to show the culchees and tourists how to buy a ticket?

2cool4school

gotta agree with darkman on this one

the red line is seriously scummy at this stage and it should be shut until a way can be found to keep the scum off it

those paying for the service should not have to feel intimidated while availing of it

i hate using that luas and always see trouble on it

and the junkies scabbing at the ticket machines is a disgrace and could be easily stamped out if the operators gave a crap

every now and again they crack down for one day and then the next day its business as usual for the zombies

the luas red line is a lawless mess and it pains me to pay money to ride on it

youre basically paying money to risk your life

shut it down - scumproof it - open it up again

coylemj

If we all used blank lines in place of punctuation there would only be room for about 3 or 4 posts per page.

comma , full stop . More of, please.

foggy_lad

Waiting for the Luas at Heuston Station the other day and two of the security guards spent at least 15 minutes chatting with a very nice looking young woman who appeared to be a language student and from the same country as one of the security guards, eventually another security guy came out from Heuston station and told off the other two telling them that they were on cctv all the time and if he knew how long they were dossing off them the boss would also find out, They said a long drawn out goodbye and eventually went back inside the station where they were obviously supposed to be working.

Are a dedicated transport police going to be any different? Spend peanuts on something and you get a pile of useless vegetables, Wouldn't it be better having Gardai numbers increased and more patrols in areas which are hot-spots for crime on the transport network?

markpb

2cool4school wrote: »

shut it down - scumproof it - open it up again

What about the tens of thousands of people who use it every day? Surely if it's so bad, they'd have switched to bus or private transport already? Should they be forced to make that switch if they're not unhappy?

In any case, would DB with its reduced fleet of buses be able to handle the demand of all those people who are discommoded?

foggy_lad

coylemj wrote: »

And if the Luas operator presumably thinks the ticket machines are easy to use, why is there almost permanently an official standing at the one outside Heuston Station to show people how to buy a ticket? It's the fact that people not familiar with the machines take so long to figure them out that makes them fertile territory for beggars and drug addicts to hang around them.

coylemj wrote: »

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If the machines are so easy to use, how come there is usually an official Luas representative at the machine outside Heuston Station to show the culchees and tourists how to buy a ticket?

That official is there to deter the drug users and homeless from approaching passengers, they will of course help people buy tickets as it is part of their job as customer service personnell.

Dravokivich

coylemj wrote: »

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If the machines are so easy to use, how come there is usually an official Luas representative at the machine outside Heuston Station to show the culchees and tourists how to buy a ticket?

Could it be people coming into the Heuston may not be familiar with the layout of the city?

I wouldn't know my way around other cities through out the country as I haven't been to them enough to familiarise myself with them. When I go abroad I regularly seek the assistance of someone there because they'd have layouts I'd be unfamilliar with and it's just quicker to ask.

coylemj

foggy_lad wrote: »

That official is there to deter the drug users and homeless from approaching passengers, they will of course help people buy tickets as it is part of their job as customer service personnell.

They could do with the same at the stops in Abbey St.

Del2005

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are a dedicated transport police going to be any different? Spend peanuts on something and you get a pile of useless vegetables, Wouldn't it be better having Gardai numbers increased and more patrols in areas which are hot-spots for crime on the transport network?

The problem for the STT folks is that they have no power and the scumbags know this. All they can do is ask the people to leave the Tram/stop and if they don't they can't force them off, if they do the Gardaí tell the scumbag to be on their merry way while they try to arrest the STT person. The bigger problem is it's against the law to ask a child to leave a PSV so they'd need Gardaí/social workers to remove the problem people.

They should use the Garda Reserve as a Transport police.

An Udaras

As I have stated in previous threads a legislated transport police in the same vein as the Airport Police Service would make a huge difference to the overall safety & security of those using public transport.

Proactive policing helps to deter crime and acts of public disorder from occurring. The gardai currently are over stretched,under funded and under manned to fight general crime nationwide never mind on our trains,trams & buses.

A strong hi-visibility presence helps to reassure the travelling the public and lower the fear of crime. A dedicated transport police service would not prevent all crime but would be a massive improvement on the current situation of uniformed security guards who have no statutory powers.

No offence to Foggylad but simply don't pay them peanuts and hire qualified and suitable staff to be members of any future transport police.

Sadly if the rail companies and others transport providers are not interested in funding this it will not happen. The Dublin Airport Authority fund & maintain their own police force whom they set out their role & objective which include the Prevention & Detection of crime and maintenance of public order within the lands that comprise a state airport.

Person coming to Dublin or Cork Airport for example do not do so worrying about the risk of anti social behaviour or being exposed to beggars,vagrants,drug users etc.. they feel safe as they know that there is a dedicated group of men & woman who are empowered and suitably qualified to deal with such incidents.

Hopefully one day this will extend to the LUAS.

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

If we all used blank lines in place of punctuation there would only be room for about 3 or 4 posts per page.

comma , full stop . More of, please.

Behave

An Udaras

Del2005 wrote: »

The problem for the STT folks is that they have no power and the scumbags know this. All they can do is ask the people to leave the Tram/stop and if they don't they can't force them off, if they do the Gardaí tell the scumbag to be on their merry way while they try to arrest the STT person. The bigger problem is it's against the law to ask a child to leave a PSV so they'd need Gardaí/social workers to remove the problem people.

They should use the Garda Reserve as a Transport police.

Not to be pedantic, but the Garda reserve are unpaid volunteers who I believe must be accompanied in execution of their duties when out in Public by full time members of the Gardai.

I would sooner see either a dedicated Garda unit (unlikely due to the cuts to specialized units like Traffic Corp) or a new specialized police force empowered under legislation and paid for by Transport providers thus leaving as many gardai to police the rest of our communities.

Qualitymark

Kumsheen wrote: »

Chances are that all have free travel passes anyway so ticket enforcement has nothing to do with it.

Those pensioners are *demons*.

bmaxi

An Udaras wrote: »

Not to be pedantic, but the Garda reserve are unpaid volunteers who I believe must be accompanied in execution of their duties when out in Public by full time members of the Gardai.

I would sooner see either a dedicated Garda unit (unlikely due to the cuts to specialized units like Traffic Corp) or a new specialized police force empowered under legislation and paid for by Transport providers thus leaving as many gardai to police the rest of our communities.

I can't see how a dedicated Garda unit would make any difference. The Garda force we have has proven to be totally inept at enforcing the law in other areas, what make you think they'd be any better at this?

Dravokivich

bmaxi wrote: »

I can't see how a dedicated Garda unit would make any difference. The Garda force we have has proven to be totally inept at enforcing the law in other areas, what make you think they'd be any better at this?

Where, or is this from just general negative banter?

starviewadams

Don't think the red Luas line is all that bad,certainly not as bad as quite a few posters on here are making out anyways.Quotes like ''risking your life if you use it'' etc are a bit OTT and smack of some hyperbole filled story that the Evening Herald would cobble together on a slow news day.

I get the red line Luas regularly enough in the morning and after 10pm at night and the only things I've witnessed are a few lads begging at the tvm's,a few intoxicated looking passengers now and then arguing amongst each other,and teenagers messing at the stops between James and Fatima.I've heard a few stories about the local hardshaws causing hassle on the new Citywest extension,but I've only been on that stretch of line twice and never saw any trouble so I'm not the best person to judge that section.

I've used the underground in London and the metro in Paris and witnessed similar goings on,it's what happens on public transport in major city's these days.Like everything else in Dublin,if you keep your wits about you you will be fine.Calling for the line to be closed is ridiculous.

Del2005

An Udaras wrote: »

Not to be pedantic, but the Garda reserve are unpaid volunteers who I believe must be accompanied in execution of their duties when out in Public by full time members of the Gardai.

I would sooner see either a dedicated Garda unit (unlikely due to the cuts to specialized units like Traffic Corp) or a new specialized police force empowered under legislation and paid for by Transport providers thus leaving as many gardai to police the rest of our communities.

Not according to this. Just because they are accompanied at nearly all times doesn't mean they can't act alone.

The reason why I picked the reserve was because it's volunteer, no cost, and HAS statutory powers to remove/arrest the scumbags. And since

The principal role of the Reserve consists of local patrols and crime reduction initiatives, targeted at specific local urban or rural problem areas.

, sorting out a major public transport investment would be a good use for them

bmaxi

Dravokivich wrote: »

Where, or is this from just general negative banter?

I see it every day with my own eyes, I don't need any more proof than that.

starviewadams

Del2005 wrote: »

Not according to this. Just because they are accompanied at nearly all times doesn't mean they can't act alone.

The reason why I picked the reserve was because it's volunteer, no cost, and HAS statutory powers to remove/arrest the scumbags. And since , sorting out a major public transport investment would be a good use for them

Garda reserves are not aloud out on patrol unless acompanied by a full time member of AGS,my best friend has been a reserve in Pearse Street since they were introduced.

Paparazzo

I've used the Luas red line about 100 times (kylmore to city centre), the only time I saw anything antisocial on it was 2 kids getting on with music playing loudly on their phones speaker for about 3 stops.
Is it really as bad as people are making it out to be?

foggy_lad

Dravokivich wrote: »

Where, or is this from just general negative banter?

Well the Gardai or dedicated transport police arrest the thugs/scumbags/junkies etc and cart them off to court on the luas red line where they have been dozens of times before and the case is postponed or simply taken into consideration as the animals have bigger charges to answer, they are then almost immediately released on their own recognicances to appear in several months while a case is prepared or probation/pshchological/other HSE reports are compiled, these reports will most likely prevent the courts from imposing any custodial sentance as it would be overturned on appeal Blah Blah same old story over and over again.....Every step of the ladder costs the state thousands including getting these scum to court as they are even entitled to transport costs!

Gardai or transport police will be useless without the courts locking up these b4stards and taking them off the streets. they should be placed in the likes of spike island with only basic meals and accommodation and restricted visits!

Prisoners do not deserve all the luxury they have and neither do the scum reigning terror on the streets of our cities and towns!

Qualitymark

Maybe it's a question of having conductors on the Red Line, rather than police? When there were conductors on buses they kept order rather well.

bmaxi

Qualitymark wrote: »

Maybe it's a question of having conductors on the Red Line, rather than police? When there were conductors on buses they kept order rather well.

Society has changed beyond recognition since then. I wouldn't expect any one man to keep order on public transport today, let's face it even bus drivers have to be more or less locked into their cabs.
The responsibility to keep order lies with the Gardaí, the Courts and the Government and none of them are up to the task. When did you last see a judge on a bus?

Mr Simpson

Qualitymark wrote: »

Maybe it's a question of having conductors on the Red Line, rather than police? When there were conductors on buses they kept order rather well.

There's already plenty of ticket checkers and security, nobody without powers of arrest and pepper spray should or would be expected to deal with these scum.

Personally I wouldn't be in favour of something like the airport police. I would have a unit of the Gardai, funded by the rail based transport companies (IE & Veolia), Similar to how AVCIS in the UK are funded by car finance companies, all full police officers in a privately funded unit with full police powers.

Judgement Day

We've a sizeable army which as I have suggested elsewhere should be severely pruned and their members transferred into a new, beefed up garda force - it won't either as it involves attacking another sacred cow. :rolleyes: