Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Fishooks12

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Actually, it's too much sex with good looking Munster women that's keeping them thin. We don't lock our guys up in all boys boarding schools.

and even when we do it's with an assortment of lady peers (Rockwell)

Amazotheamazing

Fishooks12 wrote: »

and even when we do it's with an assortment of lady peers (Rockwell)

Everyone knows Rockwell girls are easy...

If we could just keep the Limerick lads away from the Salesian and Laurel hill girls we'd be back to the top of Europe in no time.

Wexfordboy89

was looking at the zebre team squad and found dave ryan has signed for them but also found out some interesting info seems he was name in the USA prelim squad for this summers tests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ryan_(rugby_union)

roycon

Sandwlch wrote: »

Why are munster players slower than others to bulk up? Different academy programme ?

mainly because the munster academy is shambolic. its just a name. they thing weights and eating properly is some sort of new fangled technology and you can beat a bit of mammys home cooked food. Probably the biggest problem in Irish under age rugby is the physical development of the munster lads and I dont think the Ulster lads are doing great either. Leisnter have compulsory weight sessions for all there underage teams 4 times a week with experience trainers there to help them. Its impossible to slip under the radar in that situation. connacht have a good system as well. They seem to think that its a leinster thing so they dont want to copy it which makes no sense. they can tailor it to meet there own specific culture and needs but every player from 1-15 needs to be doing weights and conditioning which is position specific. They need to be told at a young age "if you dont come to this weights session your not on the team". One of the problems previously was the way the munster under age structures trained in different places at different times but that has been rectified to some extent now. Even at senior level it can be seen that players like mike sherry or peter omahoney are behind their provincial rivals in this regard when if they had the proper weights training from a younger age they could be ahead of them now.

having said all this being big doesnt make you a good rugby player as tony buckley and peter stringer will tell you

PhatPiggins

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

was looking at the zebre team squad and found dave ryan has signed for them but also found out some interesting info seems he was name in the USA prelim squad for this summers tests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ryan_(rugby_union)

If Dave Ryan gets an international cap I'll be in danger of laughing myself into a fit.

ormond lad

roycon wrote: »

mainly because the munster academy is shambolic. its just a name. they thing weights and eating properly is some sort of new fangled technology and you can beat a bit of mammys home cooked food. Probably the biggest problem in Irish under age rugby is the physical development of the munster lads and I dont think the Ulster lads are doing great either. Leisnter have compulsory weight sessions for all there underage teams 4 times a week with experience trainers there to help them. Its impossible to slip under the radar in that situation. connacht have a good system as well. They seem to think that its a leinster thing so they dont want to copy it which makes no sense. they can tailor it to meet there own specific culture and needs but every player from 1-15 needs to be doing weights and conditioning which is position specific. They need to be told at a young age "if you dont come to this weights session your not on the team". One of the problems previously was the way the munster under age structures trained in different places at different times but that has been rectified to some extent now. Even at senior level it can be seen that players like mike sherry or peter omahoney are behind their provincial rivals in this regard when if they had the proper weights training from a younger age they could be ahead of them now.

having said all this being big doesnt make you a good rugby player as tony buckley and peter stringer will tell you

The academy was a joke. Its a hell of a lot better now than it was several years ago.
What compulsory weights training sessions do the Leinster sides do that the Munster lads dont do.
The Munster elite development squads are doing weights sessions in UL/CIT in the Munster gyms as well as at other locations.
Munster youths/schools/19s did train seperately in the past but that also happened in the other provinces.
Connacht have much smaller numbers than the other provinces and at 15 can pick the squad for the u18 provincial championships and immediately give them the additional weights/fitness training etc when the other provinces still are completing their selection process

roycon

It is a hell of a lot better. I'm not going to disagree with that. They were getting 20% out of 100 and they are now getting 39% out of 100 but they are still failing. Claiming that private schools in Dublin have better weights rooms and have more money for supplements and trainers is a pathetic excuse. Clongowes have been the best schools team over the past 3/4 years and they have virtually no weights training at all in school. For the most part these lads are coming through leinster u18s,19s,20s. There has to be pressure there and expectation on people to improve there size gradually and consistently over time. No one is saying we want the English system where the biggest Person gets picked regardless of their ability but it certainly helps to be bigger and more athletic in a physical sport like rugby. The Munster players who are noticably bigger and better conditioned have done it of their own accord. David Wallace, Jerry Flannery, Paul O'Connell all have been in Ireladn training camps for years and have brought this conditioning expertise back to Munster. I would show huge support for any Munster coach who stood up and identified this as a serious weakness and problem in their underage structure. They need to build a culture and emphasis on weights training and stregth and this will add to the much publicized "concentration,commitment, courage and consistency". If Anthony Foley were to concentrate on improving these aspects then he could change a lot of the problems of the Munster underage teams(schools teams) under performing.

Having said this Munster have been the best at bringing players through the ranks and developing them gradually. Coughlan and donnacha ryan are prime examples and even hurley now have shown themselves. I dont know if they would have been given the chance to come through at other provinces.

Crucially though there is not a straight choice between the two and its best to be stronger on both fronts with Leinster improving there AIL teams and maybe bringing in players when they are a bit older through a "play your way" scheme and with Munster improving their academy and weight training particularly. Everyones a winner in this scenario and especially the Irish team

ormond lad

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roycon wrote: »

It is a hell of a lot better. I'm not going to disagree with that. They were getting 20% out of 100 and they are now getting 39% out of 100 but they are still failing. Claiming that private schools in Dublin have better weights rooms and have more money for supplements and trainers is a pathetic excuse. No its not. only recently did some of the limerick schools upgrade their facilities to include a gym. many of the schools in dublin are private and can afford to have very good facilities compared to the public schools in limerick
Clongowes have been the best schools team over the past 3/4 years and they have virtually no weights training at all in school. I really doubt that For the most part these lads are coming through leinster u18s,19s,20s.They are but the schools coaching, facilities ae a real afvantage There has to be pressure there and expectation on people to improve there size gradually and consistently over time. No one is saying we want the English system where the biggest Person gets picked regardless of their ability but it certainly helps to be bigger and more athletic in a physical sport like rugby. The Munster players who are noticably bigger and better conditioned have done it of their own accord. David Wallace, Jerry Flannery, Paul O'Connell all have been in Ireladn training camps for years and have brought this conditioning expertise back to Munster. I would show huge support for any Munster coach who stood up and identified this as a serious weakness and problem in their underage structure. They need to build a culture and emphasis on weights training and stregth and this will add to the much publicized "concentration,commitment, courage and consistency". If Anthony Foley were to concentrate on improving these aspects then he could change a lot of the problems of the Munster underage teams(schools teams) under performing.

Having said this Munster have been the best at bringing players through the ranks and developing them gradually. Coughlan and donnacha ryan are prime examples and even hurley now have shown themselves. I dont know if they would have been given the chance to come through at other provinces.

Crucially though there is not a straight choice between the two and its best to be stronger on both fronts with Leinster improving there AIL teams and maybe bringing in players when they are a bit older through a "play your way" scheme and with Munster improving their academy and weight training particularly. Everyones a winner in this scenario and especially the Irish team

Munsters academy has improved but there has been problems with squads.
Donnacha Ryan would have made it earlier if he'd been in another province or had moved from munster. He was behind 2 internationals with 50+ caps but should have been playing in the big games more often earlier . The same thing that happened to Donnacha Ryan is now happening to Ian Nagle and Dave Foley.
You keep emphasising weight training. While that is important what is needed is the control of what the best kids between the ages of 15-18 are given programmes and analysed/controlled/monitered by Munster academy/sub academy/development officers rather than been given programmes by the schools that mightnt be what is best for the kids

Hagz

Can you give examples of these private schools with very good weights facilities. If you look at Blackrock College for example, they have a weights room in the form of a small shed with old dumbbells etc. I'm sure any school in Limerick could do the same. I would put it down to a culture difference in my opinion.

danthefan

Hagz wrote: »

Can you give examples of these private schools with very good weights facilities. If you look at Blackrock College for example, they have a weights room in the form of a small shed with old dumbbells etc. I'm sure any school in Limerick could do the same. I would put it down to a culture difference in my opinion.

Was just about to ask this. Seems to be an enormous leap in logic being made.

profitius

No doubting that Munster have been far behind the other provinces. Even Connacht supposedly had a bigger pack than Munster at U20 level last season. The amount of players on the Irish U20 team is also a reflection of the work being done with the younger lads.

You also have to question the people in charge of Munster that they could leave the academy fall so far behind. Very short sighted of them. They seem to be learning their lessons but thats only after years of watching other provinces.

One thing I would say is that its better the players come through later than never.

Hagz

The whole private schools thing would come into it though, but not through the facilities of the schools but rather the lifestyle of the pupils. A lot of the young lads in Leinster would be members of their local gym (which is fairly expensive) and in a lot of cases would have their own home gym set-up. So money definitely comes into it. But culture as well. Over in Leinster the young lads are a lot more image conscious. It's not just about wearing the 'Abercrombie and Fitch', it's also about getting 'ripped'. I know it sounds laughable but walk around south Dublin and you get an idea of what I'm talking about. There's a lot of young lads in Leinster who don't even play rugby or any sport for that matter, but they sure look like they do.

danthefan

And there are plenty of rugby playing private schools in Munster anyway.

Cpt_Blackbeard

danthefan wrote: »

And there are plenty of rugby playing private schools in Munster anyway.

Rockwell, PBC and CBC are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. None of the big Limerick schools are.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Hagz wrote: »

The whole private schools thing would come into it though, but not through the facilities of the schools but rather the lifestyle of the pupils. A lot of the young lads in Leinster would be members of their local gym (which is fairly expensive) and in a lot of cases would have their own home gym set-up. So money definitely comes into it. But culture as well. Over in Leinster the young lads are a lot more image conscious. It's not just about wearing the 'Abercrombie and Fitch', it's also about getting 'ripped'. I know it sounds laughable but walk around south Dublin and you get an idea of what I'm talking about. There's a lot of young lads in Leinster who don't even play rugby or any sport for that matter, but they sure look like they do.

You'd see that anywhere around the country. Walk through any university and you'd see a tonne of lads who are clearly big into their gym work. A lot of these lads would play rugby, but not all.

Anyway, a desire to bulk up to impress others does nothing for you on the rugby pitch. Lads who bulk up for these reasons would pay little to no attention to their core or legs. Both of which are much more important than arms and shoulders.

danthefan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Rockwell, PBC and CBC are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. None of the big Limerick schools are.

I know Limerick is mostly public schools but as far as I know UL has some excellent facilities, if they wanted to do gymwork I would imagine an arrangement could be made.

Hagz

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Anyway, a desire to bulk up to impress others does nothing for you on the rugby pitch. Lads who bulk up for these reasons would pay little to no attention to their core or legs. Both of which are much more important than arms and shoulders.

It develops a culture though. Guys are hitting the weights at 15 years of age in preparation for the SCT. They get used to it, weights and rugby go hand in hand for them.
And most of them would be doing the relevant gym work because most young lads in south Dublin are well informed. For example, Ironside gym is a relatively new gym that's opened up in the area of Blackrock and they're doing an 8 week course in preparation for the rugby season, in conjunction with Leinster strength and conditioning coaches. If you go down there and you'll see young school lads spending their summer getting bigger. It's just seems to be the norm. When guys are about 16 they spend their whole summer preparing.

muscleshirt

there was never a culture of strength/weights training in irish club rugby,it's only now beginning to change but slowley,there needs to be more qualified strength coaches in the club club game at senior and junior level,also the gym facilities need to be improved
finance is a problem but the IRFU should be at the forefront here.
there is no point in the munster academy sending 15/16 year olds back to their clubs
with a weights program where some have neither the facilities or supervision to implement it

ormond lad

Hagz wrote: »

Can you give examples of these private schools with very good weights facilities. If you look at Blackrock College for example, they have a weights room in the form of a small shed with old dumbbells etc. I'm sure any school in Limerick could do the same. I would put it down to a culture difference in my opinion.

Terenure, Michaels is just 2 schools with v good facilities off the top of my head

Hagz wrote: »

The whole private schools thing would come into it though, but not through the facilities of the schools but rather the lifestyle of the pupils. A lot of the young lads in Leinster would be members of their local gym (which is fairly expensive) and in a lot of cases would have their own home gym set-up. So money definitely comes into it. But culture as well. Over in Leinster the young lads are a lot more image conscious. It's not just about wearing the 'Abercrombie and Fitch', it's also about getting 'ripped'. I know it sounds laughable but walk around south Dublin and you get an idea of what I'm talking about. There's a lot of young lads in Leinster who don't even play rugby or any sport for that matter, but they sure look like they do.

Lifestyle does play a role but you cant deny that the fee paying schools in the mostpart have put in the money to put in the facilites.
I wouldnt say the lads in leinster are more image conscious.

danthefan wrote: »

I know Limerick is mostly public schools but as far as I know UL has some excellent facilities, if they wanted to do gymwork I would imagine an arrangement could be made.

UL does have excellent facilities and some arrangement could be made.
Many of the kids are members of various gyms in the city but there is plenty of schools in dublin with the facilities in the school and unlike those in limerick who have to use public facilities

Hagz

ormond lad wrote: »

Lifestyle does play a role but you cant deny that the fee paying schools in the mostpart have put in the money to put in the facilities.

For sure, but I think that a lot of the weights stuff would be done outside the schools facilities or at least 50/50. That's just from my personal experience though.

ormond lad wrote: »

I wouldnt say the lads in leinster are more image conscious.

Really? I find that surprising.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I think the biggest cause, is the increased emphasis on mass in the Leinster Senior Cup when compared to the Munster one.

Sindri

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I think the biggest cause, is the increased emphasis on mass in the Leinster Senior Cup when compared to the Munster one.

There's nothing like a good mass to get you motivated for a match.

Amazotheamazing

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Dave Ryan gets an international cap I'll be in danger of laughing myself into a fit.

What's with the hate? He's a decent player who got ****ed over by Munster's disinterest in scrummaging.

ormond lad

Hagz wrote: »

For sure, but I think that a lot of the weights stuff would be done outside the schools facilities or at least 50/50. That's just from my personal experience though.

Really? I find that surprising.

A good proportion of work would be done outside of school but if the schools have the facilities the kids can do such more than if the majority of the gym work is being done outside of the school.

On the image issue. Rockwell/Cork schools would be as image conscious, dont think its as much an issue in Limerick

Amazotheamazing

ormond lad wrote: »

A good proportion of work would be done outside of school but if the schools have the facilities the kids can do such more than if the majority of the gym work is being done outside of the school.

On the image issue. Rockwell/Cork schools would be as image conscious, dont think its as much an issue in Limerick

I do't know, my nephew was with one of the schools teams in Limerick and there's plenty of big guys knocking around the various squads.

A bigger problem in Limerick particularly is the talent is spread too thinly. Ardscoil and Crescent might have two decent teams but if you combined them you'd have a very good one etc. I think it can be harder for a player to stand out on weaker teams so they are missing the early involvement with Munster that a player from a bigger school might get.

GerM

danthefan wrote: »

I know Limerick is mostly public schools but as far as I know UL has some excellent facilities, if they wanted to do gymwork I would imagine an arrangement could be made.

I'm not sure to what extent or standard but Ard Scoil Rís have a weights room and Castletroy is creating one if it's not there already. Along with Rockwell, PBC and CBC, a good number, probably the majority, of big rugby schools in Munster have weight facilities.

ormond lad

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

A bigger problem in Limerick particularly is the talent is spread too thinly. Ardscoil and Crescent might have two decent teams but if you combined them you'd have a very good one etc. I think it can be harder for a player to stand out on weaker teams so they are missing the early involvement with Munster that a player from a bigger school might get.

It is an issue. The youths structures in the clubs would also be much stronger in Limerick than dublin and kids will play competitions with their clubs much more when they still playing underage rugby.
Like most kids in schools elsewhere will not play with a club at all between finishing mini rugby and the time they leave school while in Limerick and to lesser degree in Cork plenty of the kids will after their junior cup year play a year or two of u17 and maybe u19 youths rugby before going back to play Senior Cup.
It is harder to stand out on a weaker team to a degree but with only 8 A schools and 7 B schools(and the standard of the B schools would only be alright) there should be no excuse for any player being missed out on for provincial teams

phog

danthefan wrote: »

And there are plenty of rugby playing private schools in Munster anyway.

It really depends on how you'd measure "plenty".

danthefan wrote: »

I know Limerick is mostly public schools but as far as I know UL has some excellent facilities, if they wanted to do gymwork I would imagine an arrangement could be made.

Location wise UL is probably only suited to one school in Limerick unless each of them arrange training during school/rugby training time and bus the lads there.

Using UL first thing in the morning or immediately after school would be a nightmare compared to doing gym work at school.

phog

From Munsterrugby.ie

Catching Up With Bryce Cavanagh
6 July 2012, 3:54 pm By The Editor

A notoriously busy time for the strength and conditioning department we talk to Head of Fitness Bryce Cavanagh as he cracks the whip during pre-season training.A year into his role as Head of Fitness we talk to Bryce in a two part series as he gives us an insight into the S&C department.

Starting off.....

"From the other side of the earth Munster have a reputation back in Australia for their culture & their discipline, and the way they play reaches everywhere and it was no different when I rocked up. The culture of the place is exceptional and that makes it easy to work with the players. They are willing to work, they have that work ethic, they are disciplined and they are relentless in what they do and that just makes my job easy.

At the beginning I tried to come in and not go bananas with making changes, but the changes we did try to make took time. It’s a unique environment with Limerick and Cork, everyone keeps talking about it, but it’s not that things can’t happen; things maybe just take a little bit longer.

We’re evolving and that’s the big thing for us as a group and that’s the big thing we’re trying to push, to keep moving forward, keep changing and keep getting better and I think we did take steps last year but I think there’s more to go.

We’re passionate about trying to get better all the time, we won’t stop evolving and it’s all very positive.

I think the players responded to some of the new initiatives we brought in. I think the staff as a whole, all of us, have bought in to certain aspects of the programme that we’re looking to implement and that’s made a big difference.

Room to improve.....

I still think that we as a department (strength and conditioning) could value add to the performance on the field more and I still think we’ve more room for improvement as a group, and that’s the players and the S&C staff included.

We’re looking to progress on things we did last year with regards to our injury prevention. That was well documented last season with a couple of the players, and guys retiring like David Wallace and Denis Leamy, and that’s still a big focus for us and we are trying to link in with the physios a lot more and work on the injury preventers like mobility, stability, and strength work.

We’re also looking at evolving other aspects of the programme, like transference, so taking the gym work and then transferring it into workable strength on the field. For example, for the breakdown, we’re taking the max strength & upper body strength that we do in the gym and we’re trying to transfer that through some wrestling and linking in with some mixed marital arts which finally we can apply to rugby.

There’s a good little melting pot there in the middle between on the pitch and what we do in the gym, bringing in outside voices and ideas and being able to mould that with our rugby specific ideas into hopefully something that will impact on the field.

We’re trying some innovative things like altitude training. There’s a new facility built up in Limerick so we’ll try and get a link in there. We’re looking to use it for injured players more so where load becomes an issue with guys, and how we can train them or optimise their fitness without breaking them by just running them all the time.

Some of the more mature players might drop a session from time to time but rather it being a session with no work we can put them in an altitude chamber on a bike or a rowing machine and there’s no load really going through their legs, but because they are at altitude their lungs and their anaerobic systems have to work a lot harder.

We’re also looking at the nutrition side of things. We’ve had Graeme Close here for the last number of years coming over from Liverpool, and we’ve been fortunate enough to get an assistant dietician Warren Bradley on board that’s going to be here 24/7 now. So we really think that’s an area we can improve on with the players, with Warren who can just knock on a player’s door on any night basically checking out the pantry.

We’re keeping on top of guys and keeping them honest a little bit more, there are guys out there crying out for that help."

flutered

i have not read all of this thread, last year munster had most of the season roughly 16 players injured, how much of this would you guys lay at the door of the strenth and conditioning department, has peter davenport really been replaced, or is it my senility.