Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

I received a 2 week ban for that and won't be getting discussing it again.

I said that were better than Toulouse in relation to a 1 off knockout game V Clermont. And as results showed, I was proven entirely correct.

What results?

Rightwing

thomond2006 wrote: »

What results?

Clermont thrashed Toulouse just before they played us. I said to people they won't thrash Munster....that Munster are better than toulouse in a 1 off knock out game.

They didn't thrash us, and in fact Clermont could easily have lost the game.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

Clermont thrashed Toulouse just before they played us. I said to people they won't thrash Munster....that Munster are better than toulouse in a 1 off knock out game.

They didn't thrash us, and in fact Clermont could easily have lost the game.

So why did you put Toulouse in your top 4 teams in Europe and not Munster?


You also said Munster were superior to Toulouse in "every department". Surely if that's true they have a better squad/team and are thus a better team

.ak

Rightwing wrote: »

i don't intend to be getting involved in little petty sniping.

Hope this helps.

If you have a problem with another posters post then use the report button.

who_me

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Saracens did top the pool in fairness. Although I don't think there is much between the sides

True, and Munster performed better in the knockouts in spite of a more difficult route; I'd agree they're probably close. I just found it odd noting the weakness of Munster's group without mentioning the same for Saracens given the comparison was between those two sides.

All that said, I've no idea where Munster will be this year. Not a clue. I think we've a fast, mobile backrow and a much more exciting and pacy backline this year along with a key change at 10. But we've not been able to play to Penney's gameplan yet, so who knows how that side will perform.

I think it's wrong to suggest POC was the only reason for the late-season turnaround, it seemed to me we just ignored the go-wide-early gameplan and reverted to type. And it worked pretty well, not because it's a better gameplan, but because it's one the players know well and can play much more naturally.

Rightwing

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So why did you put Toulouse in your top 4 teams in Europe and not Munster?


You also said Munster were superior to Toulouse in "every department". Surely if that's true they have a better squad/team and are thus a better team

A one off game is entirely different to being a better team over the course of a season.

Buer

But Clermont played Toulouse in a league game, not a one off. That goes completely against what you're trying to say. Toulouse also beat Clermont in the same fixture earlier in the season.

In fact, the only time the sides have met in a one off, knock out game in recent times, Toulouse obliterated Clermont.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

who_me wrote: »

True, and Munster performed better in the knockouts in spite of a more difficult route; I'd agree they're probably close. I just found it odd noting the weakness of Munster's group without mentioning the same for Saracens given the comparison was between those two sides.

All that said, I've no idea where Munster will be this year. Not a clue. I think we've a fast, mobile backrow and a much more exciting and pacy backline this year along with a key change at 10. But we've not been able to play to Penney's gameplan yet, so who knows how that side will perform.

I think it's wrong to suggest POC was the only reason for the late-season turnaround, it seemed to me we just ignored the go-wide-early gameplan and reverted to type. And it worked pretty well, not because it's a better gameplan, but because it's one the players know well and can play much more naturally.

I'm very optimistic about this year. We've a number of younger guys really stepping up in POM,TOD,Murray and Zebo, a relatively easy HC group and should be aiming for a semi again

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

A one off game is entirely different to being a better team over the course of a season.

Basically this:

Buer wrote: »

But Clermont played Toulouse in a league game, not a one off. That goes completely against what you're trying to say.

In fact, the only time the sides have met in a one off, knock out game in recent times, Toulouse obliterated Clermont.

irishbucsfan

Rightwing wrote: »

A one off game is entirely different to being a better team over the course of a season.

What about being better in every department?

Rightwing

So Toulouse deserve to be in the top 4,,,,just where I had them. And Munster proved that they were well up to give Clermont a match last season.

And hopefully this season too.

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'm very optimistic about this year. We've a number of younger guys really stepping up in POM,TOD,Murray and Zebo, a relatively easy HC group and should be aiming for a semi again

Agreed, but two things really have to happen:
1) Keatley steps up to the plate
2) More inventiveness from the backline

The two are probably co-dependent. Munster have some serious gas in their back three options but it will be useless if they're just shovelling it left to right, right to left like they were last year. As much as people might not like to hear it, the presence of ROG was holding them back.

Micky Dolenz

molloyjh wrote: »

That's it. Take one game in isolation and ignore the rest of the season. That'll paint an accurate picture.

My point was a poor Munster side did not make the SF. A poor Munster side made a QF because of an easy pool. When POC arrived back (it seems) he transformed Munster from a poor side to a good side. That good side made the SF and were narrowly beaten. The Munster we saw in the QF and SF last season was a totally different beast to the one we saw in the pool stages.

I wasn't taking one game out of isolation, just how the campaign ended.

The pool was hardly easy and certainly not the easiest in the comp. we won 4/6 and racked up enough tries to see us through. I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that Munster got out of their group due to it being "easy". I would certainly give them more credit than that.

And while one player can make an impact in a game, they can't win it single handily . Munster always had a couple of big games in them from their showing in the pool games.

Rightwing

former legend wrote: »

Agreed, but two things really have to happen:
1) Keatley steps up to the plate
2) More inventiveness from the backline

The two are probably co-dependent. Munster have some serious gas in their back three options but it will be useless if they're just shovelling it left to right, right to left like they were last year. As much as people might not like to hear it, the presence of ROG was holding them back.

But ROG proved he could do it on the big day away in Clermont.

Rightwing

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I wasn't taking one game out of isolation, just how the campaign ended.

The pool was hardly easy and certainly not the easiest in the comp. we won 4/6 and racked up enough tries to see us through. I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that Munster got out of their group due to it being "easy". I would certainly give them more credit than that.

And while one player can make an impact in a game, they can't win it single handily . Munster always had a couple of big games in them from their showing in the pool games.

I agree, we didn't play well in all the games, but did enough to get out. I don't see much difference between group last year and this year...Perpignan away will be very difficult, and Glaws away won't be easy either.

former legend

Rightwing wrote: »

But ROG proved he could do it on the big day away in Clermont.

Kicking for territory, "probing" the corners? Yes.

Getting the most out of his backline? No.

Micky Dolenz

I think life post ROG won't be a bad thing. Keatley is good enough and has shown he can do the business.

Rightwing

former legend wrote: »

Kicking for territory, "probing" the corners? Yes.

Getting the most out of his backline? No.

I agree, we need a bit of both. Will Keatley be able to find the corners?

Micky Dolenz

Feck the corners. Fire up that back line and play.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree, we didn't play well in all the games, but did enough to get out. I don't see much difference between group last year and this year...Perpignan away will be very difficult, and Glaws away won't be easy either.

Who?

jm08

former legend wrote: »

Agreed, but two things really have to happen:
1) Keatley steps up to the plate
2) More inventiveness from the backline

The two are probably co-dependent. Munster have some serious gas in their back three options but it will be useless if they're just shovelling it left to right, right to left like they were last year. As much as people might not like to hear it, the presence of ROG was holding them back.

Quick check shows that in 18 games, O'Gara took 22 conversions.
In 27 games, Keatley took 25 conversions. Nothing much in the difference - O'Gara has a slightly better ratio.

Rightwing

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Who?

Gloucester.

Buer

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I think life post ROG won't be a bad thing. Keatley is good enough and has shown he can do the business.

It will be interesting to see. Can Keatley deliver? Absolutely. Will he? Hmmm. His consistency has been the real issue with his play throughout his career even when he was getting games every week in Connacht. If he can play to his potential each week, he'll be a very good HEC outhalf.

Rightwing

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Feck the corners. Fire up that back line and play.

No, we need variety, our backline isn't good enough to forget about the corners.

RuggieBear

Start posting over here please

Buer

IBTL!

RuggieBear

continued here