Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

Options
  • 14-08-2013 3:50pm
    #1
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭


    Other thread getting too big

    ...continued from here


«134567…325

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Rightwing wrote: »
    No, we need variety, our backline isn't good enough to forget about the corners.


    What sort of a gameplan would you employ? Specifically now, not just kick it to the corner and use our backs


  • Options
    #3
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    who_me wrote: »
    It's kind of bizarre that you highlight how weak Munster's pool was, neglect to mention Saracens were in the same pool, and use that as proof that Saracens are ahead of Munster?

    Did I say Saracens were ahead of Munster, or did I say there wasn't much between them? Clue: The answer is in the post you quoted.
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I wasn't taking one game out of isolation, just how the campaign ended.

    The pool was hardly easy and certainly not the easiest in the comp. we won 4/6 and racked up enough tries to see us through. I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that Munster got out of their group due to it being "easy". I would certainly give them more credit than that.

    And while one player can make an impact in a game, they can't win it single handily . Munster always had a couple of big games in them from their showing in the pool games.

    The pool was easy. To say it wasn't is simply untrue. Edinburgh would have had a hard time scoring in a brothel they were so bad. They didn't score a single point in the first 2 rounds. Their points difference was only marginally better than Zebre, they scored less tries (and points overall) than Zebre and their tries scored:conceded ratio was actually worse than Zebre. They scored a pathetic 36 points in total in the pool stages. At least Zebre came away with 1 LBP, Edinburgh got literally nothing. Both Saracens and Munster had bonus point wins home and away against them.

    Racing in the final round didn't give a fiddlers, sent over a weakened side and didn't bother really. So between those 2 sides there were 3 BP wins served up on a platter. Any pool where you can get those 15 points as easily as Munster did has to qualify as an easy pool.


  • Options
    #4
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    What sort of a gameplan would you employ? Specifically now, not just kick it to the corner and use our backs

    I'll trust Penney, the man knows a lot more than I do. I was critical of him at the start, but he really came into his own towards the end of last season.


  • Options
    #5
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I'll trust Penney, the man knows a lot more than I do. I was critical of him at the start, but he really came into his own towards the end of last season.

    What do you think he started doing to get it right?


  • Options
    #6
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    What do you think he started doing to get it right?

    Maybe he just needed time, a bit like Rodgers at Liverpool, both seemed to struggle at first... but definitely improved as the season went on.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    @ Buer.

    I suppose it will come down to consistency all right. All the good players have it. I can only hope that will come when he is playing a lot. I can only assume he has been chomping at the bit to get the 10 shirt for himself.

    I just pray he stays as injury free as ROG managed to.


  • Options
    #8
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Maybe he just needed time, a bit like Rodgers at Liverpool, both seemed to struggle at first... but definitely improved as the season went on.

    ya but you said Munster improved toward the end of the season. I don't really think that improvement was Penny, more so POC coming back into the side and a number of players (TOD,POM, LLL, Downey) playing and being available

    You seem to be implying it was down to changes Penny made, just wondering if you could explain what those are?


  • Options
    #9
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    ya but you said Munster improved toward the end of the season. I don't really think that improvement was Penny, more so POC coming back into the side and a number of players (TOD,POM, LLL, Downey) playing and being available

    You seem to be implying it was down to changes Penny made, just wondering if you could explain what those are?


    Ah here, Playing the locks on the wings was a stroke of genius in fairness.


  • Options
    #10
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    ya but you said Munster improved toward the end of the season. I don't really think that improvement was Penny, more so POC coming back into the side and a number of players (TOD,POM, LLL, Downey) playing and being available

    You seem to be implying it was down to changes Penny made, just wondering if you could explain what those are?

    Absolutely, things like POC coming back helped him hugely, as Tescos say ,,'every little helps'.


  • Options
    #11
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    What do you think he started doing to get it right?

    +1 on that (if it's possible to agree with a question...)
    Rightwing wrote: »
    Maybe he just needed time, a bit like Rodgers at Liverpool, both seemed to struggle at first... but definitely improved as the season went on.

    Munster were horrendous towards the end of last season. The away game to Glasgow? A 34-10 defeat in Treviso? Scraping home against Zebre on the last day?

    I'm sorry to be so negative but the HC performances against Clermont and especially against Quins papered over some pretty large cracks, IMO.

    Is it too simplistic to say that POC was the difference?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Ah here, Playing the locks on the wings was a stroke of genius in fairness.

    Didn't stop in the knockout stages.

    Munster played slightly differently in terms of gameplan in those games, ROG played more territory and our forwards were more direct for example


  • Options
    #13
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Maybe he just needed time, a bit like Rodgers at Liverpool, both seemed to struggle at first... but definitely improved as the season went on.

    Did he really improve as the season went on? The week before the Quins game ye were beaten badly by a Glasgow side than put over 50 points on the board. Between the HEC QF and SF you lost to Leinster and Dragons. It seems to me that the difference between Munster in the Quins and Clermont games compared to all other games was POC, and nothing that Penney was bringing to the table.


  • Options
    #14
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Absolutely, things like POC coming back helped him hugely, as Tescos say ,,'every little helps'.

    Ya but you're just ignoring my question. What did Penny get right at the end of the season?>


  • Options
    #15
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Ya but you're just ignoring my question. What did Penny get right at the end of the season?>

    His interviews?


  • Options
    #16
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    But the league was lost cause, I wouldn't read too much into those performances,,,like against Leinster, we lost it, but it was a very competitive game.


  • Options
    #17
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    .ak wrote: »
    His interviews?

    His interviews were good, no question about that.


  • Options
    #18
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    former legend wrote: »
    +1 on that (if it's possible to agree with a question...)



    Munster were horrendous towards the end of last season. The away game to Glasgow? A 34-10 defeat in Treviso? Scraping home against Zebre on the last day?

    I'm sorry to be so negative but the HC performances against Clermont and especially against Quins papered over some pretty large cracks, IMO.

    Is it too simplistic to say that POC was the difference?


    What away game to Glasgow?

    Not get the memo about never mentioning that ever again? :p


  • Options
    #19
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Rightwing wrote: »
    But the league was lost cause, I wouldn't read too much into those performances,,,like against Leinster, we lost it, but it was a very competitive game.

    Again, you said Penny improved Munster by the end of the season, how? What exactly did he do

    I don't think the league being over is any excuse for nearly losing to the worst side in it by a country mile


  • Options
    #20
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    I'm not overly worried about our performances at the end of the season, when compared with the Heineken Cup ones. Last season was a disappointing league season, but I have faith we'll be improved this year.


    In fairness to ROG, he wasn't great for most of last season but he really upped it towards the end..... and did actually get our backline moving eventually. I don't think he'll be as big a loss as some people were saying earlier.


  • Options
    #21
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    What sort of a gameplan would you employ? Specifically now, not just kick it to the corner and use our backs

    Isn't the gameplan that the backs handle the ball as much as the forwards?

    How the backs have faired:

    Zebo 40+8 starts - 20 tries
    Doug Howlett 111+3 - 35 tries

    Luke Fitz 93+15 - 26 tries
    Nacewa 120+6 - 24 tries.

    Trimble 158+4 - 54 tries
    Bowe 99+6 - 40 tries

    Zebo was doing well outside ROG alright - a try every second game!

    I hear Sexton was practising his grubber shots into the corner for a back to fall onto it against Toulon!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Again, you said Penny improved Munster by the end of the season, how? What exactly did he do

    I don't think the league being over is any excuse for nearly losing to the worst side in it by a country mile

    It's no escuse, but it's all about prioritising.

    Penney adopted a more forward orientated game, just as I was hoping he would.


  • Options
    #23
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    The season can't start soon enough.


  • Options
    #24
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Again, you said Penny improved Munster by the end of the season, how? What exactly did he do

    I don't think the league being over is any excuse for nearly losing to the worst side in it by a country mile

    Not to mention actually losing to the second worst side... :P

    It certainly seemed to me that the return of POC was the catalyst for the improved performances. Whether that's because he took charge of what was happening on the pitch when that sort of leadership had been missing (doubtful), or whether he for all intents and purposes overrode the game plan that had not been working and got Munster back playing a far more direct game I'm not sure.


  • Options
    #25
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Munster played a pretty direct and forward orientated game for most of the HC. Both Saracens games and Edinburgh away for example.


  • Options
    #26
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Not to mention actually losing to the second worst side... :P

    It certainly seemed to me that the return of POC was the catalyst for the improved performances. Whether that's because he took charge of what was happening on the pitch when that sort of leadership had been missing (doubtful), or whether he for all intents and purposes overrode the game plan that had not been working and got Munster back playing a far more direct game I'm not sure.


    You seem to be forgetting the game that I won't mention. POC, while he is important, Munster rugby is bigger than any player or even a hub of players.

    Also, Munster isn't the only team to be beaten by "the second worst side....:p"


  • Options
    #27
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Ya but you're just ignoring my question. What did Penny get right at the end of the season?>

    I would think he has to be admired for keeping his head when all about him were losing it. He remained positive all along and built a very young and confident team. Look at how Killer, Murray, TOD, Sherry, POM have all blossomed in the last year.

    Penney deserves a lot of credit for that.


  • Options
    #28
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    His interviews were good, no question about that.

    Well not really, but they certainly got better! ;)


  • Options
    #29
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    Rightwing wrote: »
    But the league was lost cause, I wouldn't read too much into those performances,,,like against Leinster, we lost it, but it was a very competitive game.

    But they lost. At home. To Leinster. Again.

    Is it enough to be "competitive" against your arch rival in what used to be the most impenetrable home ground in Europe?

    The league was a lost cause because they were so poor. Munster played 10 league games after Christmas; won three, drew one, lost six.

    So I'd question whether there was any improvement at all, that's all I'm saying


  • Options
    #30
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    You seem to be forgetting the game that I won't mention. POC, while he is important, Munster rugby is bigger than any player or even a hub of players.

    Also, Munster isn't the only team to be beaten by "the second worst side....:p"

    Well if that is the case then maybe you could actually articulate exactly what it was the Penney did differently at the latter part of the season that was so improved (despite the results in the Pro12 games in the second half of the season). You know, the question Ugo has been trying to get an answer to for the best part of the afternoon.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    former legend wrote: »
    But they lost. At home. To Leinster. Again.

    Is it enough to be "competitive" against your arch rival in what used to be the most impenetrable home ground in Europe?

    The league was a lost cause because they were so poor. Munster played 10 league games after Christmas; won three, drew one, lost six.

    So I'd question whether there was any improvement at all, that's all I'm saying

    The performances were there against the big teams. That's the main thing for me. But to answer your question, time will tell I suppose.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement