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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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    #4982
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/dropline-menu-mainmenu-34/5724-ogara-boost-for-munster.html

    Radge to sign a new one year deal with Munster it seems.


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    #4983
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/dropline-menu-mainmenu-34/5724-ogara-boost-for-munster.html

    Radge to sign a new one year deal with Munster it seems.

    The stuff on the coaching roles is a bit "jobs for the boys" no? I know that ROG and Paulie are both legends of the game, but coaching is a different story altogether. Surely they need to earn the positions rather than just get them off the back of their playing careers...


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    #4984
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »
    The stuff on the coaching roles is a bit "jobs for the boys" no? I know that ROG and Paulie are both legends of the game, but coaching is a different story altogether. Surely they need to earn the positions rather than just get them off the back of their playing careers...

    Munster has been like this for years.


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    #4985
    opinionatedfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭opinionatedfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    The stuff on the coaching roles is a bit "jobs for the boys" no?

    are you surprised?

    i'm sure Leo might be offered something similar


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    #4986
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    molloyjh wrote: »
    The stuff on the coaching roles is a bit "jobs for the boys" no? I know that ROG and Paulie are both legends of the game, but coaching is a different story altogether. Surely they need to earn the positions rather than just get them off the back of their playing careers...

    Its fairly usual actually that players get a start in the club they are retiring from. Recent Irish players would be Girvan Dempsey, Simon Easterby, Anthony Foley, Conor O'Shea, Jim Williams, every coach that Leicester have ever had and Stephen Jones last week with Wasps.

    The exception to the rule is probably Bernard Jackman.

    They will more than likely have to work their way up - for instance, Anthony Foley started off with some of the Munster underage teams, then moved onto Assistant with 'Munster A', then head coach of 'A', then Munster Defence Coach and then Forwards coach. Mind you he did it fairly quickly.


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    #4987
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    molloyjh wrote: »
    The stuff on the coaching roles is a bit "jobs for the boys" no? I know that ROG and Paulie are both legends of the game, but coaching is a different story altogether. Surely they need to earn the positions rather than just get them off the back of their playing careers...

    I would have thought that having a player who has travelled on 3 Lions tours and has gone through various different kicking techniques would be an idea guy to have around as a kicking coach if nothing else.


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    #4988
    opinionatedfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭opinionatedfan


    Clareman wrote: »
    I would have thought that having a player who has travelled on 3 Lions tours and has gone through various different kicking techniques would be an idea guy to have around as a kicking coach if nothing else.

    ROG doesn't strike me as a kicking coach, let the man become a pundit. His personality is made for it.


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    #4989
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Munster has been like this for years.

    Ah yeah, but surely it has to change at some stage?
    Clareman wrote: »
    I would have thought that having a player who has travelled on 3 Lions tours and has gone through various different kicking techniques would be an idea guy to have around as a kicking coach if nothing else.

    Kicking coach maybe, but assistant backs coach to one of the biggest sides in Europe with no coaching experience?


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    #4990
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    opinionatedfan wrote: »
    ROG doesn't strike me as a kicking coach, let the man become a pundit. His personality is made for it.

    At least one GAA team (Kildare) had him in as a kicking coach (they ended up beating Cork after it:D)


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    #4991
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    As jm08 has mentioned, RoG has been giving kicking lessons to a lot of teams, not only for rugby teams but also GAA and soccer. He has also dealt with a lot of pressure during his career, that type of experience is invaluable to be able to pass on to a young player.

    I would say that if he wasn't offering anything or didn't have the personality for it, he'd be cut lose by the branch, but if he fits in he'll be kept on, there hasn't been many "jobs for the boys" in the professional era that I can think of, Payne and Foley off the top of my head, both of which seemed to be a great success, no harm to see if it'll work with RoG


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    #4992
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    jm08 wrote: »
    At least one GAA team (Kildare) had him in as a kicking coach (they ended up beating Cork after it:D)

    Really? Never heard about that, any link?


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    #4993
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Ah yeah, but surely it has to change at some stage?

    I think this is exaggerated somewhat.

    Everyone has to start somewhere on the coaching trail if that is what they are interested in.

    Axel is obviously going down that road and seems to have a future

    Jim Williams similarly had a role and has gone on to bigger things

    but there is hardly a huge number of ex-Munster pros in the coaching team

    given that people like Quinlan, Flannery, Leamy etc all recently retired, if Munster was really like what you suggest, would they not be involved?

    I think most teams would have some ex-Pros involved - e.g. Girvan Dempsey at leinster


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    #4994
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Really? Never heard about that, any link?

    Here you go http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/ireland-star-ogara-puts-kildare-duo-through-paces-26755759.html


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    #4995
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Kicking coach maybe, but assistant backs coach to one of the biggest sides in Europe with no coaching experience?

    A different question could be; do Munster actually need an assistant backs coach?

    I'd say this is just idle speculation more than anything but I think Munster didn't help their cause in recent years by keeping on the likes of Holland and Payne. What was Mick Galwey's job again?


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    #4996
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Clareman wrote: »
    As jm08 has mentioned, RoG has been giving kicking lessons to a lot of teams, not only for rugby teams but also GAA and soccer. He has also dealt with a lot of pressure during his career, that type of experience is invaluable to be able to pass on to a young player.

    I would say that if he wasn't offering anything or didn't have the personality for it, he'd be cut lose by the branch, but if he fits in he'll be kept on, there hasn't been many "jobs for the boys" in the professional era that I can think of, Payne and Foley off the top of my head, both of which seemed to be a great success, no harm to see if it'll work with RoG

    That strikes me as crazy that a rugby kicker would be giving tips to a soccer team!

    I never heard about any of this, any links for it?!


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    #4997
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Ah yeah, but surely it has to change at some stage?

    Kicking coach maybe, but assistant backs coach to one of the biggest sides in Europe with no coaching experience?

    It depends on the player (and outhalfs usually make good backs coaches). Pat Howard took over Leicester with very little experience - in fact at one stage he was the backs coach when he was still playing for Leicester.

    Leicester offered Daryl Gibson the head coaching job after a year after he stopped playing but he went back to NZ as Crusaders Backs Coach instead.

    Conor O'Shea was a player/coach for LI as well.


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    #4998
    opinionatedfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭opinionatedfan


    Clareman wrote: »
    Here you go http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/ireland-star-ogara-puts-kildare-duo-through-paces-26755759.html

    missed the major point here, Mark Tainton was in charge.


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    #4999
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Clareman wrote: »
    Here you go http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/ireland-star-ogara-puts-kildare-duo-through-paces-26755759.html

    Interesting, would love to know how the actual mechanics of rugby kicking transfers to football, particularly for guys who would be free taking from the hand.

    Perhaps it's more a psychological thing of going through the process.


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    #5000
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Some great coaches start with their ex clubs. It's only a problem if they're not up to it. I'd say ROG and POC are.


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    #5001
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    opinionatedfan wrote: »
    missed the major point here, Mark Tainton was in charge.

    Thats the only one that made the headlines. Kildare were shocking at the time.

    Quinlan mentions in the Times yesterday of him always willing to give kicking coaching sessions to the Tipperary Clubs.

    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Interesting, would love to know how the actual mechanics of rugby kicking transfers to football, particularly for guys who would be free taking from the hand.

    Perhaps it's more a psychological thing of going through the process.

    It is more a psychological thing - Dave Alred (the kicking coach guru - Wilko, ROG, Sexton have used him) is also big into golf coaching.


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    #5002
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I think this is exaggerated somewhat.

    Everyone has to start somewhere on the coaching trail if that is what they are interested in.

    Axel is obviously going down that road and seems to have a future

    Jim Williams similarly had a role and has gone on to bigger things

    but there is hardly a huge number of ex-Munster pros in the coaching team

    given that people like Quinlan, Flannery, Leamy etc all recently retired, if Munster was really like what you suggest, would they not be involved?

    I think most teams would have some ex-Pros involved - e.g. Girvan Dempsey at leinster

    There are lots of ex-Munster players coaching AIL Munster clubs, so it looks like Munster are fairly choosy about who they keep for the province.

    Someone like Payne is ideal as team manager - he knows whats involved (he had a similar role to what Guy Easterbay has for Leinster).

    I've heard that Flannery has been coaching Varley recently and if the improvement in Varley's throwing is anything to go on, Ireland could do a lot worse than making Fla national hooker coach.


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    #5003
    eire_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭eire_lad


    So has anyone got tickets for teh Harlequins sorted?? Dunno if theres another thread...


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    #5004
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    totallegend wrote: »
    A different question could be; do Munster actually need an assistant backs coach?

    I'd say this is just idle speculation more than anything but I think Munster didn't help their cause in recent years by keeping on the likes of Holland and Payne. What was Mick Galwey's job again?

    No, not now, but they will want a backs coach in a couple of years time, unless we are going to continue importing all coaches.

    Holland has just been appointed Canterbury's Back's coach.
    I don't think anyone has any beef with Payne as Team Manager - he talked CJ Stander in coming to Munster.
    Galwey was involved for about year with Munster when going through a huge tranission (he was also Team Manager to Munster A). It obviously wasn't working out, so he is gone.

    Proof of the pudding that if you are not contributing, your out.


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    #5005
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Some great coaches start with their ex clubs. It's only a problem if they're not up to it. I'd say ROG and POC are.

    But see that's the problem, you don't know if a guy is up to it or not until he's in the job. If he is up to it, great. If not, you're in trouble halfway through a season.

    Jason Holland is a good case in point; never the fastest, strongest or most naturally gifted player but he knew how to get the best out of himself on the field. You'd think that he would transfer to coaching reasonably well, but ask any of the Munster fans on here what they think about Holland's tenure as backs coach...

    [but if Rob Penney is serious about reforming the way Munster play, bringing ROG into the coaching team would not be the way to go about it...]


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    #5006
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    totallegend wrote: »
    [but if Rob Penney is serious about reforming the way Munster play, bringing ROG into the coaching team would not be the way to go about it...]

    there is nothing to suggest that ROG (or anyone else) could not be a different coach to how they themselves played or the system they played in


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    #5007
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    totallegend wrote: »
    But see that's the problem, you don't know if a guy is up to it or not until he's in the job. If he is up to it, great. If not, you're in trouble halfway through a season.

    That would only be a problem if he is the head coach.
    Jason Holland is a good case in point; never the fastest, strongest or most naturally gifted player but he knew how to get the best out of himself on the field. You'd think that he would transfer to coaching reasonably well, but ask any of the Munster fans on here what they think about Holland's tenure as backs coach...

    Canterbury obviously take a different view on him. He must be rated by them considering the number of coaches that NZ produce and the prestige that Canterbury/Crusaders have to now being Canterbury's Back's Coach.


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    #5008
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,664 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    eire_lad wrote: »
    So has anyone got tickets for teh Harlequins sorted?? Dunno if theres another thread...

    Think they're all gone at this stage unfortunately!

    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/11670.php

    O'Connell due to play in the Munster A game.


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    #5009
    eire_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭eire_lad


    I know the supporters clib tickets are gone..

    I know that touring operators somehow got tickets.

    Just wondering have the clubs given tickets out to their members..


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    #5010
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Riskymove wrote: »
    there is nothing to suggest that ROG (or anyone else) could not be a different coach to how they themselves played or the system they played in

    Yep, agree, but there's even less to suggest that being a great player translates into being a great coach yet that seems to be the assumption here.

    But listen, I don't mind, not a Munster fan so I'll just butt out.


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    #5011
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    Eod100 wrote: »
    O'Connell due to play in the Munster A game.

    Best news for Munster in ages. We badly need his leadership.....


This discussion has been closed.
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