Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

I would love a lock 'like' McCarthy to replace Cullen.

I would love McCarthy to stay at Connacht and be brought into the central contract system there. I reckon it would start a steady stream of potential central contracts - TOH, Marmion, Griffen, Buckley could all be in the mix within the next 3 years for Ireland caps.

conflicted

I think central contracts are on the way out; I certainly hope they are anyway. I just don't see the benefit of them.

I'd imagine this McCarthy story is a journo putting 1 and 1 together and coming up with 3. Leinster need a lock, McCarthy is one, Leinster are great, Connacht are a bit sh*t; sure that writes itself.

Remember the 'Donnacha Ryan is moving to Leinster' story last year?

Tox56

totallegend wrote: »

I think central contracts are on the way out; I certainly hope they are anyway. I just don't see the benefit of them.

I'd imagine this McCarthy story is a journo putting 1 and 1 together and coming up with 3. Leinster need a lock, McCarthy is one, Leinster are great, Connacht are a bit sh*t; sure that writes itself.

Remember the 'Donnacha Ryan is moving to Leinster' story last year?

:eek: A bit harsh!

I think a big part of it will be if an Irish team win the H Cup (and Connacht qualify as a result). McCarthy has taste for the H Cup now, and someone of his ability probably won't want to keep plugging away in the Amlin.

funtime93

I know we'd never get him but Etzebeth for SA would be some signing,only 21 aswell.

lologram

funtime93 wrote: »

I know we'd never get him but Etzebeth for SA would be some signing,only 21 aswell.

A South African lock? Sure he'd just get injured

ray jay

On the topic of SA locks, Toulon extended Bakkies Botha's contract so he's off the table as an option too.


Regarding McCarthy, Leinster have a project player spot open now that Strauss has qualified and aren't short of money, so I'd hope they'll look abroad for a good tighthead lock rather than cannibalising another province's team.

totallegend

Tox56 wrote: »

:eek: A bit harsh!

I think a big part of it will be if an Irish team win the H Cup (and Connacht qualify as a result). McCarthy has taste for the H Cup now, and someone of his ability probably won't want to keep plugging away in the Amlin.

Sorry, should have made it clearer that I was paraphrasing what might have been going through the journo's head, rather than my own opinion.

justsomebloke

hmmm, Given McCarthy's age I wouldn't be a massive fan of bringing him. Given that he will be nearly 32 I think it's only a bandaid solution to our problem and I'd be worried we would be just robbing someone from another province just to keep on the good side of the new NIQ rules so we can look at a foreign player at a later stage

padser

totallegend wrote: »

I think central contracts are on the way out; I certainly hope they are anyway. I just don't see the benefit of them.

I'd imagine this McCarthy story is a journo putting 1 and 1 together and coming up with 3. Leinster need a lock, McCarthy is one, Leinster are great, Connacht are a bit sh*t; sure that writes itself.

Remember the 'Donnacha Ryan is moving to Leinster' story last year?

If you read the comments from Connacht CEO it's definitely not a made up story. (Unless the direct quotes are made up which is unlikely).

He confirms that Connacht have spoken to McCarthy about it, an approach has obviously been made.

That doesn't mean it will happen obviously, but its not a made up story.

totallegend

padser wrote: »

If you read the comments from Connacht CEO it's definitely not a made up story. (Unless the direct quotes are made up which is unlikely).

He confirms that Connacht have spoken to McCarthy about it, an approach has obviously been made.

That doesn't mean it will happen obviously, but its not a made up story.

Yeah, but the Connacht CEO is reacting to a story in the media. Of course the comments from Sears are accurate, it's the underlying facts that are a bit iffy.

Personally, I wouldn't have any mad desire to see McCarthy coming to Leinster, excellent player as he is.

jamiedav2011

Besides the fact that I wouldn't be happy with taking a front line player for another province, is McCarthy what Leinster need?
To my mind, we should be looking at a really top class 27 year old SH lock, rather than a 32 year old who is good provincial level/ok international level.

McCarthy isn't too much further up the scale than Browne and Toner imo, though he does lead Connacht's pack well.

durkadurka

Lock is a clear problem going forward, but anyone think we're going to start looking very thin in the backs too?
Possibly BOD and Darcy no longer front line this time next year, questions marks surrounding Lukey...

We're talking a back line (11-15) of

Nacewa, Ferg, EOM,D Kearney, R Kearney

Back up:

Carr, Goodman/Reid, Macken, conway,Madigan.

Its not exactly world beating is it?
I can see Niall Morris returning. And we might need to sign a centre from somewhere too.

yimrsg

McCarthy could play at a similar standard as he is now for another 3-4 years, plenty of other enforcer style locks have had very long careers. It's the locks who are athletic and lithe who seem to deteriorate and retire quicker. If McCarthy wants to sign for Leinster I'd welcome him with open arms, if he stays with Connacht then my respect for him would only grow.

ssaye

durkadurka wrote: »

Lock is a clear problem going forward, but anyone think we're going to start looking very thin in the backs too?
Possibly BOD and Darcy no longer front line this time next year, questions marks surrounding Lukey...

We're talking a back line (11-15) of

Nacewa, Ferg, EOM,D Kearney, R Kearney

Back up:

Carr, Goodman/Reid, Macken, conway,Madigan.

Its not exactly world beating is it?
I can see Niall Morris returning. And we might need to sign a centre from somewhere too.

Sign Gilroy if Ulster keep playing Trimble:D IQ
Sign Nonu NIQ :pac:

Sign Caldwell IQ
I hope we develop as much Irish as possible

ray jay

durkadurka wrote: »

Lock is a clear problem going forward, but anyone think we're going to start looking very thin in the backs too?
Possibly BOD and Darcy no longer front line this time next year, questions marks surrounding Lukey...

Yeah I'd be a little worried that Leinster are sleepwalking towards having big holes in their squad. There were relatively few injuries last year (certainly compared to this season) which disguised the problem, but with the imminent likely retirement or decline of several key players, Leinster are going to have to make changes soon if they want to avoid the problem Munster ran into when they lost many of their big names in a short period.

.ak

SBW for $$$? :P

ssaye

ray jay wrote: »

Yeah I'd be a little worried that Leinster are sleepwalking towards having big holes in their squad. There were relatively few injuries last year (certainly compared to this season) which disguised the problem, but with the imminent likely retirement or decline of several key players, Leinster are going to have to make changes soon if they want to avoid the problem Munster ran into when they lost many of their big names in a short period.

From 2013/2014
1-3 ok Bent + Ross 33 next month this + 1/2 seasons left
locks as above only need 1 imo
6-8 fine
9 Cooney + AN when Reddan/Boss both 32 now 1/2 seasons left
10 ok
11-15 Need a new HEC class centre Combo if EOM/Luke/Macken/Goodman/McFadden dont fit together and someone who averages 10 tries a season ALA Visser type

5 Players apx to maintain a very high standard

justsomebloke

.ak wrote: »

SBW for $$$? :P

ah here even my trolling isn't that bad

Quint2010

https://www.bluemagic.ie/the-hub/item/616/leinster-rugby-supporters-calendar-2013

Anyone seen this? You can vote for your favourite image for the Leinster 2013 calander. 3 options for each month. Features poor ROG being run over. Twice. I reckon he'll top the poll!:D

GerM

People need to keep in mind that it's very likely Roux, Goodman and VDM will all be hitting the road next summer and Leinster already have a spare NIQ spot to fill. There is plenty of scope to fill any gaps that may emerge in the next two seasons.

The succession planning at Leinster is very much underway also. I expect next season's academy intake to be heavily geared towards the back line now that they've spent a couple of years addressing the forward issues. Occurrences such as the conversion of Coghlan to centre and the Route 6'6" initiative would indicate that Leinster are more conscious of the areas they need to address than anyone.

Regardless of BOD and Darce departing in the next 18 months a back line made up from Fitz, EOM, Macken, DK, RK, McFadden, Nacewa and probably another NIQ player is plenty capable of competing to HEC standard.

Quint2010

.ak wrote: »

SBW for $$$? :P

Money Bill Williams?

clsmooth

durkadurka wrote: »

Lock is a clear problem going forward, but anyone think we're going to start looking very thin in the backs too?
Possibly BOD and Darcy no longer front line this time next year, questions marks surrounding Lukey...

We're talking a back line (11-15) of

Nacewa, Ferg, EOM,D Kearney, R Kearney

Back up:

Carr, Goodman/Reid, Macken, conway,Madigan.

Its not exactly world beating is it?
I can see Niall Morris returning. And we might need to sign a centre from somewhere too.

I think any team would struggle to lose 3 players of that calibre. Teams go through cycles and its highly likely Leinster will have a season or 2 where results will dip but the fact that BOD has been out pretty much since the WC and Luke since last Xmas , players have been getting experience and hopefully will step up when BOD and D'Arcy hang up their boots.

In the last 3 years we've lost Contempomi, Dempsey and Shaggy and managed to bring players in such as Jonnie, McFadden and Rob Kearney so hopefully we can continue this. I think McFadden can make his name when he nails down his position (hopefully IC when D'Arcy goes) in much the same way Shaggy seemed to get better towards the end of his career when he nailed down the wing position rather than IC and OC.

Looking at the players we have coming through, Dave Kearney looks a very good player in particular. Solid, eye for the line and strong as an ox. I'd be happy with EOM at 13. Hopefully he can come back from his injury well. I'm not sure about Conway, great pace, but really needs to be getting a run of games and with the injuries we've had, I would have hoped it would have happened this year. Unfortunately, he seems to pick up a lot of knocks. When Luke comes back (positive thinking folks!) I would like to see him get a run at 12 too. Between him and McFadden we should have decent cover on the wing and at 12. Scrum half would be a concern, but Ireland do seem to struggle to produce top quality scrum halfs. Its too early to comment on Luke McGrath.

You could argue for any team, a strong pack is more important and we have a lot of players coming through there although we probably will require a signing in the second row in the mould of Hines or Thron but these types of players dont grow on trees. I'd be happy with Jack McGrath, and hopefully Bent can build on his promising Irish cameos. I'd let Hagan go, he's not solid enough in the scrum unfortunately. Back row cover looks good as well so plenty to be optimistic about.

Bottom line, I'd be more concerned about who will come in to coach once Joe leaves! Kidney might be free at that stage :eek:

.ak

Reading that article by the demented mole, he raises the point that if Sheridan's awful run with injuries is put behind him he might fulfill his potential from underage level. If he returned to Leinster in a couple of seasons after playing in the RFU championship we might end up with a massive centre pairing of Coughlan and Sheridan.

It'd be weird seeing 32+stone in midfield for Leinster....

ssaye

.ak wrote: »

Reading that article by the demented mole, he raises the point that if Sheridan's awful run with injuries is put behind him he might fulfill his potential from underage level. If he returned to Leinster in a couple of seasons after playing in the RFU championship we might end up with a massive centre pairing of Coughlan and Sheridan.

It'd be weird seeing 32+stone in midfield for Leinster....

Great article

ray jay

GerM wrote: »

Regardless of BOD and Darce departing in the next 18 months a back line made up from Fitz, EOM, Macken, DK, RK, McFadden, Nacewa and probably another NIQ player is plenty capable of competing to HEC standard.

But look at that back line as it currently stands, 3 of them are injured leaving only McFadden, Macken, DK, and Isa - i.e. no fullback or bench options. Expecting enough academy guys can step up to HEC standard in 18 months is a little risky. Leinster aren't completely free to sign whoever they want to plug the gaps either, remember that Laulala and Howlett are taking up two back positions already.

Tox56

Leinster backs with senior experience under the age of 24:

Cooney, McGrath, Madigan, Conway, Macken, O'Malley, Dave Kearney, Reid, O'Shea, Hudson

There are several talented players there. One thing that does strike me is that a lot of those players have a lot of flair, but can be hit and miss. McGrath/Madigan/Macken/Reid can have moments of genius, but also moments of madness. I don't know if that's a good thing or not to be honest.

There are plenty of more senior players like Sexton, Fitzgerald, Kearney etc. that will also be around for a long time, so I don't think we're in bad shape. They might not be as good as the current generation, but it could be a lot worse.

thomond2006

Quint2010 wrote: »

Money Bill Williams?

If he was all about money he would still be at Toulon.

Tox56

Tox56 wrote: »

Leinster backs with senior experience under the age of 24:

Cooney, McGrath, Madigan, Conway, Macken, O'Malley, Dave Kearney, Reid, O'Shea, Hudson

There are several talented players there. One thing that does strike me is that a lot of those players have a lot of flair, but can be hit and miss. McGrath/Madigan/Macken/Reid can have moments of genius, but also moments of madness. I don't know if that's a good thing or not to be honest.

There are plenty of more senior players like Sexton, Fitzgerald, Kearney etc. that will also be around for a long time, so I don't think we're in bad shape. They might not be as good as the current generation, but it could be a lot worse.

It's a good thing. You can coach the roundedness into a game, stop the errors etc. It's so so so much harder to turn a player that's solid into someone capable of producing magic.

Look at guys like Earls, Healy, P.Marshall. These are all guys that were absolutely full of beans, bursting to do things etc. They are all becoming far more rounded year on year, without taking away elements of their game that make them electric. Just learning the times when to revert to type and do the 'percentage' gain.

Australia have tonnes of these type of players. QC (lost cause though I think) and Beale being prime examples. Capable of the fantastique, but prone to make a basic error.

Coaches will sand the rough edges down in some of those players, a lot easier to do than to create a spark in a 'solid' player.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

Cooney, McGrath, Madigan, Conway, Macken, O'Malley, Dave Kearney, Reid, O'Shea, Hudson

That's a very good list of young guys. The one thing that strikes me about it is that all of them (apart from maybe the last two) are probably at the stage now where they're only going to be benefit so much from A and AIL level rugby. We might have to start investigating looking at sending some guys to the Premiership on loan (like Munster with props) at certain points of the season. We may not have the depth to allow that though.

GerM

ray jay wrote: »

But look at that back line as it currently stands, 3 of them are injured leaving only McFadden, Macken, DK, and Isa - i.e. no fullback or bench options. Expecting enough academy guys can step up to HEC standard in 18 months is a little risky. Leinster aren't completely free to sign whoever they want to plug the gaps either, remember that Laulala and Howlett are taking up two back positions already.

You can't legislate for injuries. We could have the NZ back line at Leinster and several of them could wind up injured. I'm not considering academy players to step into the breach in the next 18 months at least not to HEC level. There's plenty to cover the Pro12 level. The aforementioned players are more than enough to cover HEC level.

The proposed NIQ ruling by the IRFU will never go through in its original format. Leinster already have a spot available to sign another NIQ player regardless given Goodman is there.

BOD and D'Arcy weren't on the field last year when Leinster took apart Bath in the Aviva. They're great players but no longer are they the key to Leinster. I'd put SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Healy and Kearney as more influential players overall for the side now and it's these players that the next Leinster side will be built around.

.ak

Funny how one injury can totally change the dynamic of game time though. If Fitz doesn't make a recover then Hudson must be next in line as FB cover with Isa to become a permanent feature on the wing. I really rate Hudson though. Had a bit of a horror show on the wing this season but on previous games he's been immense in the tackle and reads the game well.

If Fitz does make a recovery where will he be though? He'll be way down the pecking order I think.