France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

fitz

walshb wrote: »

Glad someone mentinoed this ridiculous mistake. Thos tv pundits never even touched on it. Useless ****es. I mean, at that point in the game, and in such a threatening position, to go for that long risky throw defies belief.

JustinDee wrote: »

Was a perfect opportunity for a "split 'n' through" or at least a maul from a throw to the front.

Careful now fellas, dangerously close to criticising Paulie and his calling of the lineout...we can't be having that!
Criticism BAD!! :rolleyes::p

Webbs

As a neutral I thought that Ireland in the first half played with so much more pace in defence than previous weeks, France whose back-play seems really turgid at the moment mainly through Rougerie who had a shocker couldn't cope with the rush defence.

However Ireland are still too predictable when running plays off setpieces or second, third phases the back-line is so deep that they really struggle to get over the gain-line.

The second half was the equivalent of a soccer team sitting on a lead, the defensive line speed was gone and it was a passive defence, whether this was deliberate or not who knows.

Ireland still dont create enough opportunities considering the class in the backline, it seemed that the Kearney up and under was the only real attacking option. The backlines for all the Irish provinces appear to sit far flatter than Ireland do, something I just dont understand.
Similarly where was O'Brien, Heaslip, Ferris running consistently 2 passes off the rucks at the French midfield. Couple of times Ferris was in this position and they made good gains. likewise the use of Bowe and Trimble of the wings is criminally under used.

So despite the draw Ireland still are not coming close to their potential which to me comes down to a coaching team failure, and a poor French performance should have been put away by Ireland

durkadurka

Have to say that line out and darcy's bizarre fumble were the moments when we knew it wasn't going to happen.

JustinDee

fitz wrote: »

Careful now fellas, dangerously close to criticising Paulie and his calling of the lineout...we can't be having that!
Criticism BAD!! :rolleyes::p

Not a critique per se as its all very easy from the armchair to point out. Having never been on the field in front of 80,000-odd spectators with a chance to beat France in their own backyard, I'd be the last to make a call on a call like that. Big difference to playing CRL in NSW and playing for Ireland in the Six Nations at Stade de France!

walshb

Wasn't the lineout weak yesterday throughout? Wit that in mind it makes that throw even more silly. Keep freaking possession at least. Make sure of that.

Leinster7

Webbs wrote: »

As a neutral I thought that Ireland in the first half played with so much more pace in defence than previous weeks, France whose back-play seems really turgid at the moment mainly through Rougerie who had a shocker couldn't cope with the rush defence.

However Ireland are still too predictable when running plays off setpieces or second, third phases the back-line is so deep that they really struggle to get over the gain-line.

The second half was the equivalent of a soccer team sitting on a lead, the defensive line speed was gone and it was a passive defence, whether this was deliberate or not who knows.

Ireland still dont create enough opportunities considering the class in the backline, it seemed that the Kearney up and under was the only real attacking option. The backlines for all the Irish provinces appear to sit far flatter than Ireland do, something I just dont understand.
Similarly where was O'Brien, Heaslip, Ferris running consistently 2 passes off the rucks at the French midfield. Couple of times Ferris was in this position and they made good gains. likewise the use of Bowe and Trimble of the wings is criminally under used.

So despite the draw Ireland still are not coming close to their potential which to me comes down to a coaching team failure, and a poor French performance should have been put away by Ireland

Spot on.

teednab-el

fitz wrote: »

d-gal wrote: »

At the end of it we could of won the game bar a few simple errors. That throw in on their 5metre line, our refusal to take a DG and the tiny game of inches that got their try. They were zero to do with management .
We did play brilliantly and can't really criticise anyone.
People have took the easy option tho...blame kidney, blame DOC (who was savage) and Sexton (who played his best game in ages)

I'm fed up with this team snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and people saying that if a couple of small things happened, we could have won. If we play with the right gameplan, we can consistently win without these "rub of the green" situations being what decides the match.

And that has everything to do with coaching.

Yeah but you have people on here saying that Ireland were brillant yesterday despite the fact that they handed the game to France. This Irish team have no heart when its a must win situation. When Ireland were 17-6 ahead i was still afraid of them loosing. I wouldn't feel the same if it was Wales or England that had that lead.

JRant

My tupence worth on what was an equally exciting and infuriating day.

Healy: excellent in the scrum and loose, should have been given a yellow for lazy running but them's the breaks.
Best: excellent in the scrum and loose, however he seems to be back to his bad old ways at lineout time. He's just becoming a liability at this stage with his throwing, especially if it's in our own or the oppositions 22. How many clutch throws do we see him make a complete mess of!
Ross: Was rock solid in the scrum and more than held his own elsewhere.
POC: Fantastic performance again from the big man. Loved the look he gave Pearson in the second half, just stood staring at him after another peno call against us. Mr Pearson is lucky looks can't kill.
DOC: Solid enough performance but ran out of steam long before he was taken off, not sure if he has the gas for international rugby any more.
Ferris: Immense again, was noticeable that both him and sexton were our main shooters in defense.
SOB: One of the best performance at 7 I've seen from an Irish player in quite some time, he was literally everywhere, slowing down ball and stealing his fair share as well (one lead directly to Bowe's second). Looked gutted coming off and I can't say I blame him. we struggled to disrupt the French once he came off. Knowing the way DK operates he must feel he wont get many more starts for Ireland if he's kept on as manager seeing as POM is the flavour of the month right now.
Heaslip: Had a terrific game today, not sure why so many people are calling for him to dropped.
Murray: Big improvement from last week. Could still do with being a bit quicker but with a player with so little experience thats to be expected.
Sexton: One poor kick and he gets both barrels off some the red brigade. Another assured performance and was immense in defense. Seems to be growing into the role nicely. I do wish DK would leave him at 10 to finish out games though.
Trimble: Not his best day at the office today but still got stuck in around the park, can't fault his work rate.
Darcy: Good defensively but he doesn't offer a whole lot going forward these days.
Earls: Quiet enough game from him and that's no bad thing. Lovely offload for Bowe's second but does he have the skill to play 13? Looks a winger all day long in my book.
Bowe: His tackling is a little suspect as of late but he's getting the tries and long may it continue
Kearney: Playing like a beast these days. Great under the high ball and countered well all day long. If he can keep this form going I'll be more than a little happy.

DK: Performances like the first half are what this team should aspire to, performances like the second half are why we need to get rid of him at the end of the season. He takes off SOB, who's playing well at 7, for an unknown quantity in POM. Couldn't believe it at the time and I still can't understand the logic behind it. Then he rejigs the backline to accommodate ROG at 10, he should have never moved Sexton to 12.

rrpc

teednab-el wrote: »

Yeah but you have people on here saying that Ireland were brillant yesterday despite the fact that they handed the game to France. This Irish coaching team have no heart balls when its a must win situation. When we were 17-6 ahead i was they were still afraid of loosing...

Fixed that for you

iroced

cgpg5 wrote: »

iroced wrote: »

It's gonna be very very tough for us to win the tournament this year as, not only we need to beat Ireland & England at home (and well Scotland tomorrow) but we'll need to beat the Welsh at the Millenium and I just don't see how...

What's with the pessimism? Ye are streets ahead of the other 6n teams on ye're day I've no doubt ye'll beat us next week, Wales is ye're big test but if ye perform ye can beat them no bother

Well I guess I was more realistic than pessimistic …
Saint-Andre seems to have transmitted his lack of enthusiasm and his apparent (and hopefully fake) defeatism to the team (I' referring to his "strange" Press Conferences). Considering he’s only starting I feel that’s worrying for us to say the least… I don’t quite understand the preparation and the gameplan we had in our last 2 games. His communication let us understand that he got really worked about the Scotland game beforehand (no offense to the Scots but where’s that coming from?) while everything was quiet and peaceful both times before the Ireland one. I know we have a great record against you but if you look closely, bar 2 years ago there are only close victories for the last 4-5 years.

And the gameplan :rolleyes: … :eek: ..., at some point yesterday, no offense lads but I felt Ireland was playing in Blue and France in Green. We did most of what you’re complaining about Kidney (e.g. so many useless kicks back to the Irish backs while Kearney and Bowe were being immense) and we decided to play on your strongest point: competing at the rucks. WTF? We tried to play Munster-style, progressing with a series of pick and go and try getting a drop goal. But we’re no Munster. It’s not what we are best at. We should have played like the Welsh. Carry the ball, pass the ball, use the backs (we saw none of them for the whole game bar this great opportunism from Fofana). Also we should know that Ireland speciality is to defend at the very limit of being offside and yesterday not only you were very “high” on the pitch but also very flat and we NEVER tried to kick the ball behind you. WTF? With the pace of our back line we would have gotten a couple of try opportunites for sure and at leat would have cast doubt on your way of defending… We played with no imagination nor cleverness yesterday. We just showed a little pride to come back in the game in the second half. But overall that was a poor performance and that’s 3 in a row now… :rolleyes:

Tox56 wrote: »

I've always wondered about this. What do French people think of the inconsistency of the team?

Here and in the UK media it's almost a running joke about "which French team turn up", is it the same attitude in France?

I can only imagine it must be incredibly annoying to support them.

I already answered on the original thread but yeah that’s definitely frustrating to support France …

Mr.Crinklewood at 14:58 wrote: »

17-17 draw.

Wow :eek: ! Did you bet on that ?!

walshb

fitz wrote: »

I'm fed up with this team snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and people saying that if a couple of small things happened, we could have won..

But rugby a lot of the time is won and lost due to an error her, a bit of luck there.

justsomebloke

walshb wrote: »

But rugby a lot of the time is won and lost due to an error her, a bit of luck there.

Hell the only reason we were in the game yesterday was due to an error here (the bad pass) and a bit of luck there (the bounce of the ball not going into touch)

fitz

walshb wrote: »

But rugby a lot of the time is won and lost due to an error her, a bit of luck there.

We played one gameplan in the first half, didn't let France into the game, and were 10 points ahead.

We abandoned that gameplan in the second half, and let them close the gap unanswered.

A bit of luck here or there has had nothing to do with the poor standard of our performances for two years. Our players who have shown against England last year, Australia at the WC, and during the first half at the weekend, that they are capable of so much more than our current coach is able to get out of them.

totallegend

justsomebloke wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

But rugby a lot of the time is won and lost due to an error her, a bit of luck there.

Hell the only reason we were in the game yesterday was due to an error here (the bad pass) and a bit of luck there (the bounce of the ball not going into touch)

Correct, we were gifted seven points and didn't score at all in the second half. If the game had gone on another ten minutes, we'd have lost.

Ardillaun

Re: the second half performance, the pack were up against probably the best technical scrummagers in the world who are also nearly ten pounds lighter a man which must begin to tell after 50 minutes running around the field. In addition to that, they can bring on the likes of Picamoles and Servat as subs. Usually, the French pull up in the second half against us because they have already won the game but, in Paris and with their levels of fitness, they must be among the top three teams in the world for being able to go the full 80 when they have to.

I think both halves were extraordinary. With that sort of performance, we could beat any other 6N team.

RoundBox11

justsomebloke wrote: »

Hell the only reason we were in the game yesterday was due to an error here (the bad pass) and a bit of luck there (the bounce of the ball not going into touch)

Thats sport tho so you can't honestly believe thats true.

You could just as easily say the only reason why France came back is because of silly lineout mistakes and D'Arcy's fumble.

Thats as stupid as saying that a team only wins/loses because their OH kicked well/poor, when in reality theres so much more in the game to create those oppourtunities.


It's far too simplistic a view.

Moflojo

justsomebloke wrote: »

Hell the only reason we were in the game yesterday was due to an error here (the bad pass) and a bit of luck there (the bounce of the ball not going into touch)

That's a twisted perspective, the intercept try came about as a result of Ireland's defensive pressure while Tommy Bowe deserved to get the bounce of the ball after Ireland did everything right to create the space for him to kick into.

There is so much negativity on this forum it's unbelievable. I can't understand how Ireland "supporters" will even chip away at the positive aspects of yesterday's performance to try to maintain this anti-Kidney vendetta, which is getting tiresome.

iroced

Just a little comment "from inside" about this

4PP wrote: »

This is very true, Ireland first, then your province. Only idiots put provincial rivalries above national interests.
Speaking of which, when england play what do you see, White & St George cross, scots in Navy(ish) & st andrews, the Welsh in red & their dragons & leeks, Italians in blue & the irish in green.

Now the french, what do they show up in???
Catalan, basque, breton, corse, midi pyreenees, alsacien & I could go on. french flags? well they are waved by the non rugby fans, the "tourists" if you like.
its not for nothing that in the French language they say
"on a gagne" ou "ils ont perdu" when talking about the FFR XV

Ils retourne leur veste, toujours du bon cote a bon entendreeur

No offense mate but you’re using wrong shortcuts here .…

Unlike many countries in Europe (Spain, Italy, Germany, Ireland…) France is a very “united” country centralized on Paris. So not only the Provinces don’t have such a huge weight compared with the nation itself but the provincial pride is not that present bar some people in Brittany and Basque Country. Corsica is an exception. I will not go into the details but e.g. it’s a different administrative system and most of the radical nationalism there is linked with how France dealt with the post Algeria war situation in the early 60ies (they gave land in Corsica to a lot of pied-noir (Algerian-born Frenchman or woman)).
Of course there is some banter around sport events. But outside local derbies it’s never a provincial issue. The only one would be Paris against Provinces e.g. PSG (Paris) and OM (Marseille) in soccer which is some kind of a fake rivalry (made up by presidents of both clubs in the late 80ies / early 90ies to make business out of it).

Regarding the French flag, it’s more complex. The explanation lies with how we are educated in France. I’d say we don’t feel the need of displaying the tricolour flag as it’s intrinsically normal/logical for us to support France. And more importantly the passion around sports is not something we grow up with. There is this famous Pierre de Coubertin sentence "the important thing is to participate" which is some kind of a French motto regarding sport.
There’s also an inconscious but everpresent link with a huge taboo in France regarding the France dark side during the Second World War (the Vichy regime, Collaboration with the Nazis) which gave an awful reputation to nationalism and nationalistic pride. So waving the French flag (outside sport events I mean) would almost appear as an act of extremism. So then even in a stadium it feels weird to show the French flag and most people prefer their regional flag (as there’s also a historico-political meaning referring to WWII as this regionalism was the primary feed of the Resistance).

Well you might think I'm taking things way too far but if you ask French people why they generally don't show their flag at sport events as much as foreigners do, they probably won't have an answer and just say "I never thought about it". And IMO that's because of the reasons I explained above .



And the "On a gagné" / "Ils ont perdu" ("We won / They lost") ... well that is latin versatility :pac:. We seem to love to hate what we hate to love :rolleyes: :P.

Junior

Dunno if this was posted earlier.. l'equipe's cover today ..

Tox56

What does that say?

danthefan

Tox56 wrote: »

What does that say?

The headline is "back/return to earth"

Annabella1

Lads...been to Paris six times...and we got the bejaysus beaten out of us every time.
At least the Parisians werent looking down their nose at us last night!

heybaby

A vastly improved performance in the first half showing a level of intensity not seen since the australia game. Why oh why cant we see this intensity in every game? Again however though, we saw the mental fragility of this team in the second half, giving away stupid penalties time and time again. Three times we were in the french 22 and we somehow cough up possession , twice through knocking on!! its as if we were getting a nosebleed, subconsciously these players didnt believe they deserved to beat the french in paris. At this level you simply cannot leave the opposition without some kind of reward.

Our lineout was awful and scrum was so so and the penalty count was very much in the french's favour. Kearney back to his world class best and bowe is a very special player. My fear is that later this week we will see an irish performance more akin to the one we saw in the wales match, this is where kidney really has to deliver. Yesterday was a missed opportunity, kidney has 2 more chances to prove he should remain on in the job. Personally i believe with a different manager we would have won that game yesterday.

Quint2010

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

KERSPLAT!

On SSN that POC and Murray will miss last 2 games

Chucky Norris

Quint2010 wrote: »

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

No rumour o connell and murray out for rest of championship maccarthy and TOL in the squad

uriah

Quint2010 wrote: »

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

Yes, O'Connell and Murray both out for rest of six nations.
Both with knee injuries

questforfit

Chucky Norris wrote: »

No rumour o connell and murray out for rest of championship maccarthy and TOL in the squad

What a complete ****ing joke.

O'Connell out and instead of Touhy we get McCarthy.

Murray out and instead of Boss OR Marshall we get Tomas 'so favoured by Kidney he gets two years to play himself into form' O'Leary.


Just go away Kidney, please.

phog

How did O'Connell play the and wlak off the field without knowing there was something wrong with his ligaments, I hope by playing on he didn't do more damage.

Fireball07

Seems a bit odd calling up McCarthy ahead of Tuohy, but to be fair, at least he's in form. My only problem would be he's a bit older and is a short-term solution at best. Still, I have no doubt he'll perform admirably.

But the loss of POC is more than just a personnel issue, his inspirational and leadership qualities cannot be underestimated.


Has a new captain been chosen? Best or Heaslip, I suppose.