The pub loses its pulling power

Seachmall

Heroditas wrote: »

Reasons I am fed up with most of the pubs here:
1. Loud music.

Definitely loud music.

There's a pub myself and my mates go to every other weekend. It's grand up until 9 when the ****ty DJ starts blaring some generic pop so loud you can't hear anyone within earshot. And given the speakers are everywhere you can't just move to a quieter corner.

Nice pub, great atmosphere until 9 and then everything goes downhill.

Biggins

Seachmall wrote: »

Definitely loud music.

There's a pub myself and my mates go to every other weekend. It's grand up until 9 when the ****ty DJ starts blaring some generic pop so loud you can't hear anyone within earshot. And given the speakers are everywhere you can't just move to a quieter corner.

Nice pub, great atmosphere until 9 and then everything goes downhill.

There was a bar in Duleek, Co Meath that operated the same way - with the same result, a good few left.
Did the owner learn or even see what he was doing? No and it hit him in the tills eventually.

dan1895

In the past I've had no hesitation of walking out of a pub if the music just starts blaring. Odd thing is that usually said pub doesn't have anywhere to dance to the music so whats the point?

TwoShedsJackson

dan1895 wrote: »

In the past I've had no hesitation of walking out of a pub if the music just starts blaring. Odd thing is that usually said pub doesn't have anywhere to dance to the music so whats the point?

The point is to make you drink more, which you will do if you are talking less.

Only way to stop it is to tell the owner or manager why you're leaving when you do go, he may not care right then, but he will when the place is empty on a Friday night and it might get him to stop that crap then.

Mr Benevolent

And those ads - 'Dublin does Fridays like Dollymount does steamed up windows'. What the fuck? What were they thinking?

coffee_cake

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

The point is to make you drink more, which you will do if you are talking less.

Only way to stop it is to tell the owner or manager why you're leaving when you do go, he may not care right then, but he will when the place is empty on a Friday night and it might get him to stop that crap then.

nah he'll just turn around and blame the shops then

Nelbert

They are a bunch of wasters really.

They've 2 associations they can be members of..... They deal with one supplier for the most part.....

The publicans, IMO, are either too stupid or don't trust each other to stick to a POA with Diageo. They all moan about the price they pay but don't use their potentially huge purchasing power to get a better price.
Stupidity, trust and laziness issues would be my opinion.

They tell Diageo they'll get a supplier elsewhere in Europe. They could probably have a staffed and run warehouse for distrubition to all members as required for the price difference between Diageo and foreign suppliers.

If they don't work together they'll end up on the dole together...

My two cents

mjth2004

I'm obviously not the market the pubs want as I'm only out once in a while but for a single measure of bushmills black bush with a baby mixer of soda coming in at €7.25 in Naas - best of luck to you lads as you won't be seeing my custom again!

coffee_cake

mjth2004 wrote: »

I'm obviously not the market the pubs want as I'm only out once in a while but for a single measure of bushmills black bush with a baby mixer of soda coming in at €7.25 in Naas - best of luck to you lads as you won't be seeing my custom again!

3.50 for a diet coke

great craic all right

of course the health risks of diet coke are awful and it's all a concern for my wellbeing

mjth2004

€3.50 for a soft drink.....funk!

The other thing I have seen (Stag in Galway couple of weeks back & Naas this weekend) asked did they have Angostura Bitters behind the bar to make an old fashioned whiskey (p1ss easy to make - sugar, soda, bitters & bourban - job done)! None of them had bitters nor knew what I was talking about - customer service at its best!

My feeling of the majority of pubs in Ireland is they want your custom only if you are willing to stand, order umpteen pints of your choice to be followed but a lot of crazy overpriced shots to end the night then show you the door!

Must add I worked in three bars going through college (1998 - 2002) & bitters was a staple behind the bar!

Paparazzo

Those little bottles of coke that you only see in pubs are specially designed to rip you off. What's even worse, most pubs have them on a shelf, not even in a fridge, so they're warm.
And dont get me started on 25ml plastic shot glasses.

Zebra3

Biggins wrote: »

This one?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311962363.html?via=mr

or

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311952256.html?via=mr

This piece of Goebbelsesque bs.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052106.html

dan1895

Zebra3 wrote: »

This piece of Goebbelsesque bs.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052106.html

I'm not even going to read that but I refer to an earlier poster who said that they've never drank too much at home only in pubs or clubs. The fact that your racing the clock in a pub is, in my opinion, people come staggering out absolutely sh*tfaced.
I've had many house parties or bbqs where I'd be drinking for 12+ hours but I remember almost everything the next day, I remember going to bed, I don't have a raging hangover and most importantly i don't have the fear. 3 hours in a pub at the end of the night drinking bland mass marketed pints of pish can be a different story though.

mikemac1

It's long but it's relevant, more propaganda

Todays Irish Times

STRANGE AS it may seem, the growing clamour for action over the abuse of alcohol could yet prove the saviour of the Irish pub.

While Government action to tackle alcohol abuse seems closer than ever, the form this action is likely to take will probably favour pubs over other parts of the drink sector. For the first time, there is some common ground between health advocates and publicans, who both want to see curbs on the way drink is sold, often at bargain prices, in supermarkets, convenience shops and other off-licences.

The National Substance Misuse Strategy , published this month, recognised the “important role” the pub plays in community life and as an attraction for tourists. Never before have the devastating effects of alcohol misuse in Ireland been laid out so comprehensively in an official document, yet the report is noticeably softer on pubs than it is on other parts of the drinks industry.

Pubs “may” provide a more controlled environment for the consumption of alcohol, the report states, before going on to focus on “particular concerns” over the increased availability in supermarkets and other mixed-trade outlets.

This message is music to the ears of publicans, who claim there are solid health arguments for favouring their premises over other environments where alcohol is sold.

“The report is not saying the same things about pubs as similar reports were 10 years ago,” says Padraig Cribben, chief executive of the Vintners’ Federation of Ireland. He says his 4,500 members in country pubs fully support the report’s recommendations on minimum pricing for alcohol, the segregation of drink from other products in supermarkets and new rules against irresponsible promotions.

“The report recognises, as publicans do, that alcohol is not a product like cornflakes. It can have a negative effect on society but the pub is still the safest and most regulated place in which to consume it,” says Cribben.

“The vintners should be happy with many of the recommendations we’ve made, because their effect, if implemented, will be to push people back into pubs,” Tony Geoghegan, chief executive of Merchant’s Quay Ireland and a member of the steering group, says.

“In trying to regulate alcohol more, pubs do have a role to play. It’s about responsible serving and responsible attitudes to drink.”

“The real difficulty,” says Dr Joe Barry, head of the department of public health at Trinity College Centre for Health Sciences and another member of the steering group, “is cheap drink in supermarkets. It appeals particularly to young people and those dependent on alcohol. Because drink in a pub is dearer, you’ll do yourself less damage there for the same amount of money spent.”

There is a limit to this common ground between publicans and the health lobby. Other recommendations in the report, such as a ban on drinks sponsorship and the introduction of a social responsibility levy, are anathema to publicans, just as they are to the rest of the drinks industry.

The report sets out the dark side of Ireland’s relationship with drink in gory detail. Consumption increased three-fold between 1960 and 2001, although it has dropped slightly since then. We drink an average of 14.3 litres of alcohol a year, equivalent to 125 bottles of wine each or 482 pints of beer. Since one in five people abstain, the rest of us are drinking even greater amounts.

In international terms, Ireland ranks 10th out of 40 western countries but we top the tables for heavy drinking. One in seven 14-year-olds drink on a weekly basis and one in three have been drunk at some stage in their short lives.

In 2007, the overall cost of alcohol-related harm – from health costs, crime, road incidents, work absence and accidents, suicides and premature death – was estimated at €3.7 billion.

Alcohol is responsible for about 90 deaths a month, is a contributory factor in half of all suicides and increases the risk of more than 60 medical conditions. Each night, it is associated with 2,000 beds being occupied in the health system, one-quarter of injuries presenting to emergency departments and half of attendances to addiction treatment centres.

The trend towards home drinking is linked to the increase in consumption because the alcohol is cheaper, says Barry, and also because we tend to pay less attention to the quantity consumed when we’re doing the pouring ourselves.

It took the steering group, chaired by chief medical officer Tony Holohan, more than two years to complete the report. That period was marked by heavy lobbying of the group and disagreements that resulted in the two drinks industry members filing dissenting reports.

The political reception accorded the report has been cooler than might have been expected, given the evidence presented, with four Government ministers expressing concerns about the possible effect on employment of sponsorship and advertising restrictions. At this stage, it seems likely these restrictions are beyond the pale for the Government, although there is a far greater probability that the sale of alcohol in off-licences will be limited.

The debate around the report also shows how far things have moved on since the introduction of the smoking ban and drink-driving laws almost a decade ago.

Vintners sought a long battle against the smoking ban but Cribben says 98 per cent of his members in country pubs now don’t want it reversed. However, he pleads for a commonsense application of the rules on smoking areas, claiming the interpretation of HSE inspectors of what constitutes a smoking area is often “crazy”.

Dublin publicans in the Licensed Vintners’ Association have also put the smoking ban behind them. “This has been history for us for years. We ran a hard-out campaign against the ban before it was introduced but disengaged immediately after,” says chief executive Donall O’Keefe.

Whereas the smoking ban had a “big bang” effect on the trade, changes to the drink-driving laws have slowly tightened the screw on publicans. Road deaths have fallen over the decade as penalty points were introduced, then random breath-testing, as well as reductions in the limit of drink allowed.

It’s hard to deny the evidence of the steepest decline in road traffic deaths in the State’s history, but Padraig Cribben, chief executive of the Vintners’ Federation of Ireland, claims, “The main reason fewer people are dying in traffic accidents is because we have safer roads. You’d have to be a fool now to crash on the motorway from Dublin to Cork or Galway or Waterford.”

While acknowledging drink-driving laws played a part in reducing fatalities, he claims the most recent legislative changes, reducing the limit from 80mg per 100ml to 50mg per 100ml last year, will save no lives on the roads.

He says it will, however, have a significant deterrent effect on low-level drinkers who would have been happy, up to now, to drink one or two pints and drive home. Others may be worried about having alcohol in their system the morning after a night in the pub.

But while tougher laws may be saving lives on the road, rural coroners have said they could be to blame for other social problems. Last year, for example, south Kerry coroner Terence Casey said the laws were creating further isolation and increasing suicide rates.

Publicans are now re-emphasising their community credentials with progressive traders helping to organise local festivals, hosting community meetings and other events and building local networks online.

Cribben says what his members most want now is a reason to be confident about the future of his pubs. That comes down to political will and leadership, he says, along with a commonsense approach to regulation.

gurramok

Heroditas wrote: »

...the Exchequer are doing well.

Thats a dear hole! http://www.theexchequer.ie/menu.php?menu_id=5

mikemac1

cheap drink in supermarkets. It appeals particularly to young people and those dependent on alcohol. Because drink in a pub is dearer, you’ll do yourself less damage there for the same amount of money spent.”

Mad logic
If people are dependent on alcohol they'll still find the money to get it


And I'm still waiting for a publican to explain why I'm paying over a fiver for a rock shandy and where is the value for money
The whole debate is about alcohol but publicans are not talking about their minerals at all

Nothingbetter2d

ive read some posts in this thread by pub owners complaining that Diageo is charging them high wholesale prices...... well fight back...... stop selling diageo based products.... look for cheaper alternatives... there is many irish micro brewerys and european/american brewerys not tied to diageo....... once diageo see a massive drop in wholesale orders it will force them to drop their prices.

you can also do the same for the soft drinks.... find cheaper alternatives.

a soft drink should cost no more then €2 in a pub

Chairman Meow

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's long but it's relevant, more propaganda

Todays Irish Times

How is that even news? Everyone knows the minimum alcohol price gig the govt are trying to bring in is basically a bill to protect publicans from supermarkets and cheap booze deals. Its obvious to anyone with a lick of sense.

cheap drink in supermarkets. It appeals particularly to young people and those dependent on alcohol. Because drink in a pub is dearer, you’ll do yourself less damage there for the same amount of money spent.”

That is so god damn retarded. Yeah cause ive never ever seen people so sloshed they could barely stand still get served in pubs. Do yourself less damage my arse, there was a drink problem int his country long before tesco ever opened their doors.

gurramok

Same paper a couple of days ago, at last a hint that price is the problem.http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311962313.html

IT wrote:

THE NOTICE IN the window of The Last Water Hole on King Street North, Dublin could be a mantra for every struggling pub across the land. “We are currently recruiting customers,” it reads. Once inside this delightfully grungy bar, there are other signs of a pub desperate to drag in the punters: free nibbles – forlorn wooden dishes of peanuts and dried banana slices – grace th0e tables of a pub that at 9pm on a Friday night is playing host to a grand total of five customers.

A gig later in the evening is expected to draw a crowd but, for the moment, the bar’s customers include a woman with a dog at her feet and two Lithuanians who come here for the Svyturys beer. On busier evenings the clientele is bolstered by students from nearby Bolton Street along with regulars at the bar’s comedy and music nights.

Sitting at a table is John Geraghty, the creator of the new website publin.ie, which lists the best pub deals on alcohol in more than 200 Dublin pubs. 0“It’s basically a site that tells you where the cheap drinks are. I’ve spent the past year doing the legwork finding out about special deals, which most of the pubs now do,” he says.

Geraghty was a pub-crawl guide for a couple of years and tonight he is taking The Irish Times on a brief tour of Dublin bars.

Dublin Does Fridays is the slogan of the initiative currently being run by the Licensed Vintners Association to attract the after-work crowd back into the capital’s hostelries. Geraghty thinks they’d be better off spending the campaign money on subsidising pubs on Friday nights so that prices could be temporarily lowered.

“From talking to people and from my own experience the price of drink is crucial. Pre-drinking, where people drink cheap supermarket-bought alcohol at home for hours before going out, has become huge,” he says. Robbie, the manager of tThe Last Water Hole, joins the conversation, confirming that things are difficult in the trade. “You do whatever you can to get the customers in the door,” he says.

We move down the road to one of the newest pubs to open in the city, The Black Sheep Inn on Capel Street. This is the sister pub of Against The Grain on Wexford Street, a place where craft beers reign supreme. There are net curtains on the windows, horsey pictures in gilt frames on the walls and no TV. The pub doesn’t serve Guinness or Budweiser but a range of beers with names such as Trouble Brewing, Metalman and Galway Hooker. You can get food here with gastropub touches.

It’s busy tonight and the conversation is loud, apart from two men with heads bent over a game of chess. A young woman called Holly is ordering a drink. She says she actively seeks out venues like this that are catering to a crowd that want more from their pub than a pint of the obvious and a packet of crisps.

Across the river, despite the band playing Galway Girl , the atmosphere in Farrington’s in Temple Bar at around 10pm is more lowkey and the bar man confirms it’s quieter than usual. It’s mostly tourists but in one corner a man with a plastic bag of beer bottles stands surreptitiously opening them with his teeth.

Three 20-something women from Tallaght are sitting at a table “trying something different”. It’s the first night in a long time they haven’t been “pre-drinking” at home before heading into town for a club where they buy one or, at a push, two drinks.

“It’s very unusual for us to be out in a pub this early,” says one. “We probably drink more at home and are a bit more sensible coming out like this. We’ve realised that even though the drinks are cheaper from the supermarket we probably spend the same money as we would on a proper night out because at home we drink far more.”

Next stop is O’Reilly’s Sub Lounge on Tara Street, which Geraghty has chosen because, with pints at €3.30, it’s the cheapest place for drink in Dublin. It’s 11pm but the afterwork crowd haven’t gone home yet.

When we sit down we talk to a student from the National College of Ireland who just got his exam results and has been out drinking since 1pm. “You definitely come out looking for the cheapest drinks or you drink at home. My sister brings her friends over before they go out to nightclubs and you can’t see the table for the bottles of vodka and cartons of cranberry juice,” he says.

Incredibly we get a seat in the snug in Kehoe’s off Grafton Street, where two female friends from the midlands get chatting to a group of tourists from Finland. The place is buzzing.

The barman here says they are in a better position than most Dublin pubs.

“We are a brand. People want to come here because of the name. We are involved in the Dublin Does Fridays campaign, giving out free food in the after-work hours, but to be honest we don’t need to do things like that to attract people,” he says.

Our final destination is McGrattan’s Café Bar off Baggot Street. It’s around midnight but some of the after-work crowd are still here, playing pool in their suits alongside students engaged in a barmat flicking contest. A DJ plays 1980s tunes and there is an afterwork party in full swing. This bar offers something for everyone and crucially has a late licence.

“I think what we’re kind of seeing is that people are becoming more choosy in where they drink and aren’t just turning up to any pub any more,” says Geraghty, assessing the night. “They’re going to places for craft beers, for cheap prices and for pubs with a reputation. If a pub has one or more of those things I think they’ll do well. If they don’t, they are probably going to struggle.”

ArtSmart

Dave147 wrote: »

Don't be stupid, are you living in the real world? If Heroin was free you don't think there would be more people addicted? Wow.

yeah. that's what you pick up on.

you want to address the micro brewery bit?

mikemac1

Chairman Meow wrote: »

How is that even news?

Just adding todays article to the thread

That's all

Chairman Meow

mikemac1 wrote: »

Just adding todays article to the thread

That's all

I wasnt blaming you, just incredulous that the IT thinks its newsworthy to doctor up some pro-publican propaganda like we all didnt know this move to bring in a minimum price for booze was to try and save the publicans from doom.

Padraig Mor

Zebra3 wrote: »

This piece of Goebbelsesque bs.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052106.html

What a pile of crap!

"Consumption increased three-fold between 1960 and 2001......The trend towards home drinking is linked to the increase in consumption"

Completely ignoring that (i) alcohol consumption has significantly decreased in the last decade, (ii). The 'home drinking' trend (and cheap supermarket prices) is very much a phenomenon of the last 5 years or less.

Looking at the actual facts tells us that (i) the previous rise in alcohol consumption was mostly pub-based drinking, (ii) people drinking at home drink less than in the pub.

zenno

It's short but it's relevant...

what a bunch of publican bullsh1t. lower your prices' are you deaf ? and clean up your pub as well as some pubs i walked into are like bagdad. i'm sick to fcuking death of the publicans crying about their sales when it's them that are ripping us all off. do yourselves a favour and fcukoff or lower your prices. sick of this whinging and disrupting the sale of alcohol in supermarkets and off- licenses that better the less wealthy. get your act together and snap out of this over-charging or you will eventually be closed down.

if you think for one second that by forcing the government to take action on bringing up the price of alcohol in supermarkets and off-licenses will accomplish your goal of receiving more custom you are wrong as you will just make people more disgusted with your actions.

Nothingbetter2d

zenno wrote: »

It's short but it's relevant...

what a bunch of publican bullsh1t. lower your prices' are you deaf?.

they are deaf...it must have been all that loud music during the boom years that made them go deaf.

GowlBag

Didn't read through all of the thread cos it's quite long. So I don't know if anyone mentioned dirty glasses. Sick of ****in dirty glasses in pubs. Sometimes filthy would be a better way to describe them. All of my glasses at home are spotless!! Yummy.

zenno

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

they are deaf...it must have been all that loud music during the boom years that made them go deaf.

it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Barna77

Because drink in a pub is dearer, you’ll do yourself less damage there for the same amount of money spent

Bought six cans last Thursday. Four of them are still in the fridge. Yeah, I binge drink at home. Someone take care of me!

Ghandee

I was up home in the North for the weekend, picked up the Sunday World, to read on the way home.

I'm unsure if the Norths SW differs to the Souths, anyway, they had an article in it about Diageo threatening to cut supplies to pubs in the North who were bypassing them for kegs of beer, and importing kegs from UK suppliers at up to £50 cheaper a keg!

The article made it very clear that the beer in question, Carlsberg, etc wasnt similar/nearly the same as Diageo's. It was the exact same stuff!


Diageo hit back by basically telling the pubs in question, that unless they bought all their kegs from them, they could no longer use Diageos equipment (pipes, gas etc).

They also have ammended the procedure in place to ensure the pubs cpuldnt tamper with the lines/gas etc when the technicians left (by means of sealing the equipment so it couldnt be re-opened and kegs changed to the cheaper stuff)

Seems to me, that while our publicans are guilty of price gouging, we have heard all the excuses to the price of a pint due to overheads such as rent etc... (dunno if that justifies charging €3 for a coke though:rolleyes:)
BUT Diageo certainly seem to be playing a huge role here in the extortiante pricing in place by the pub trade.

Perhaps Diageo need to be boycotted in some form for the next few weeks/months by the Irish public, in hope of some sort of price reductions being introduced in the pub trade? (Stop buying Guinness/Carlsberg etc)

zenno

Ghandee wrote: »

Seems to me, that while our publicans are guilty of price gouging, we have heard all the excuses to the price of a pint due to overheads such as rent etc... (dunno if that justifies charging 4 for a coke though

No it doesn't justify charging 4 for a coke it is plain and simple the publicans need to sort this out and deal with their importers and the middle men, there is no excuse for charging this price end of.