The pub loses its pulling power

KKkitty

Pubs are a casualty of the recession. People can't afford to drink like they did years ago. Booze from supermarkets is cheaper so many are getting it from there and staying in. Throw in people emigrating and that's another cause. The youth of today may have 1 or 2 drinks in their local and then head to a club but because they've had a few drinks at home beforehand to start the night will not buy a whole lot in the club and some bring a small bottle of vodka in their bags. Pubs need to put down the price of alcohol and even soft drinks to stay open.

Paparazzo

mikemac1 wrote: »

Mad logic
If people are dependent on alcohol they'll still find the money to get it

All the Vintners Federation of Ireland care about is that the people dependent on alcohol spend their money in a pub. Have you ever seen an alco being refused a pint?

They were against the smoking ban, they were against drink driving limit lowered and now they're worried about our health.

Nothingbetter2d

Barna77 wrote: »

Bought six cans last Thursday. Four of them are still in the fridge. Yeah, I binge drink at home. Someone take care of me!

i think you might have a serious drink problem :rolleyes:

zenno

Paparazzo wrote: »

All the Vintners Federation of Ireland care about is that the people dependent on alcohol spend their money in a pub. Have you ever seen an alco being refused a pint?

They were against the smoking ban, they were against drink driving limit lowered and now they're worried about our health.

Jeez well i'm an alcoholic and I had to stop going to the pub many years ago because of the price and was asked many a time lately to go in and have a few pints but no way with that price was I going in. The reason I am so arrogant now towards publicans/pub owners is the fact that they never lowered the prices when we all deflated into this situation we are in now. they should have lowered the price for a pint accordingly to suit the downfall and they bloody well knew this but still refused and greed has now creeped up on them and is sucking their life away. so no thanks vampires I and many of peoples here in Ireland will relax and enjoy a few pints or shorts with the lads and gals at the house party, enjoy your decline unless you want to entice us all back in by lowering the good stuff and with clean glasses as well.

ArtSmart

Ghandee wrote: »

I was up home in the North for the weekend, picked up the Sunday World, to read on the way home.

I'm unsure if the Norths SW differs to the Souths, anyway, they had an article in it about Diageo threatening to cut supplies to pubs in the North who were bypassing them for kegs of beer, and importing kegs from UK suppliers at up to £50 cheaper a keg!

The article made it very clear that the beer in question, Carlsberg, etc wasnt similar/nearly the same as Diageo's. It was the exact same stuff!


Diageo hit back by basically telling the pubs in question, that unless they bought all their kegs from them, they could no longer use Diageos equipment (pipes, gas etc).

They also have ammended the procedure in place to ensure the pubs cpuldnt tamper with the lines/gas etc when the technicians left (by means of sealing the equipment so it couldnt be re-opened and kegs changed to the cheaper stuff)

Seems to me, that while our publicans are guilty of price gouging, we have heard all the excuses to the price of a pint due to overheads such as rent etc... (dunno if that justifies charging €3 for a coke though:rolleyes:)
BUT Diageo certainly seem to be playing a huge role here in the extortiante pricing in place by the pub trade.

and there it is. (an element at least) What i was hoping Dave would come back with.

the enemy is not the public, its not the supermkts, its not the govt, its lack of business balls. either the VFI heads are taking dollars or they have no balls to take on Diageo

they VFI members should be price givers, not price takers.

all well and fine in the good times, but now?

yes cultural change is there etc, but if pints were reasonable, people would buy. to me 2.50e a pint is the winner )

as for soft drinks and mineral water i dont know what 's going on there. i suspect greed.

eta, lines and gas can be bought separately - the VFI should underwrite purchase of same and lease to members.

Ghandee

ArtSmart wrote: »

and there it is. (an element at least) What i was hoping Dave would come back with.

the enemy is not the public, its not the supermkts, its not the govt, its lack of business balls. either the VFI heads are taking dollars or they have no balls to take on Diageo

they VFI members should be price givers, not price takers.

all well and fine in the good times, but now?

yes cultural change is there etc, but if pints were reasonable, people would buy. to me 2.50e a pint is the winner )

as for soft drinks and mineral water i dont know what 's going on there. i suspect greed.

eta, lines and gas can be bought separately - the VFI should underwrite purchase of same and lease to members.

Agree 110%

I wonder if any one from the VFI/Diageo are reading this thread, and if so will they actually take on board the overwhelming response from us, that they are simply chariging too much!

A Coke in the pub should be no more than a euro, and a pint 2.50 - 3 euro.

Better to make a small sum of money from a lot of people, than to hammer a huge sum from a select few who still are silly enough to spend the wages in the pubs and bars!

Overheal

I really do hope the publicans have not vacated the thread.

Just because you don't like the feedback you are getting from the drinking public doesn't mean it isn't on the mind of your customers, and would-be customers.

This is a free focus group. Take advantage.

zenno

Well if they lowered the price to 2.50 a pint then they would have my custom back. time to wise-up folks in the business. if I could go in and have a pint for 2.50 then I would be willing to stay a while and i'm damn sure that would entice a lot of people and your pub would be so over-crowded you would have to shake your head in disbelief. these are the facts so bring it on and gain back your punters. nothing wrong with a bit of competition as well.

Ghandee

zenno wrote: »

Well if they lowered the price to 2.50 a pint then they would have my custom back. time to wise-up folks in the business. if I could go in and have a pint for 2.50 then I would be willing to stay a while and i'm damn sure that would intice a lot of people and your pub would be so over-crowded you would have to shake your head in disbelief. these are the facts so bring it on and gain back your punters. nothing wrong with a bit of competition as well.

We need Wetherspoons in Ireland!

Nothingbetter2d

tescos should open up pubs.

we could get cheap low cost draft beer and drive out the vfi, and their cronies

Biggins

Overheal wrote: »

I really do hope the publicans have not vacated the thread.

Just because you don't like the feedback you are getting from the drinking public doesn't mean it isn't on the mind of your customers, and would-be customers.

This is a free focus group. Take advantage.

Indeed.
They might not like the comments but if they have any sense, they will at least take note of some points made and quietly with good sense, use some of them to their advantage.
If they don't - their opposition near them (in the same business) might!
They might not like particular posters and disagree with views shared, but if they ignore all of what is what being said, despite they even disagreeing with a lot (as is their right), they would be only a fool to themselves - and to their own detriment.

Overheal

zenno wrote: »

Well if they lowered the price to 2.50 a pint then they would have my custom back. time to wise-up folks in the business. if I could go in and have a pint for 2.50 then I would be willing to stay a while and i'm damn sure that would entice a lot of people and your pub would be so over-crowded you would have to shake your head in disbelief. these are the facts so bring it on and gain back your punters. nothing wrong with a bit of competition as well.

I wouldnt even think it is all about the prices. Or at least it wouldnt be, if pubs changed the reasons people want to go to the pub:

People are done going to the pub for the sake of the drink.

Last place I spent $5 per bottle on beer - it was Heinekken, been a while that - was at a concert in Charleston in this place called the Music Farm (if you wish to google that) Me living in Summerville and it being a 30 minute drive, you know I didn't go for the beer.

Pubs have got to make their existence more than about the alcohol. If I recall correctly, a pub is a public house, not a contest to see how many people you can shove in? Try working on the homeliness a bit with events. Karaoke, Pool, Snooker, Poker, Hell when a pub opens up supporting a warhammer table I'll be on the first flight back. I'm sure people could think of plenty of activities they'd love to try down at the local, and yes these are typically things that are awkward or difficult to host in most peoples homes for want of being to small etc.

saywhatyousee

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

you can also do the same for the soft drinks.... find cheaper alternatives.

a soft drink should cost no more then €2 in a pub

A bottle of coke cost the pub about 35c that is some mark up they have going on.

Eire sun

Publicans can feel hard done by these days with their declining trade, but they only have themselves to blame. They milked it while the going was good bouncing the prices up, but when it comes to pulling back a bit Noooo. The town nearest me has a great system NOT! Each publican monitors what the others are doing and only if one of them makes a move on price will the others follow suit. I really miss the craic of old and to honest i am a little resentful to have lost that but we just can not afford our pubs anymore. 2.50 euro pints....bring it on

2ndcoming

I find if I buy 6 cans for home consumption I might have one or two then the rest might sit a week easy, but the main reason for that is that it's just no craic! The drinking itself isn't what I find enjoyable, without the socialising aspect it loses it's appeal, but that's just me.

Agree with many of the sentiments here re pricing, especially on soft-drinks and especially on dash mixers, if you're going to charge anything it should be 50c max for a dash. Some pubs, particularly those aimed at younger punters, seem to be stocking cans of Coke and the other big minerals and selling them for a euro or so which makes tons of sense as not only does it offer better value to the customer they don't have to return the cans as they do with bottles.

As for people saying the VFI should organise some sort of mass campaign against Diageo, I just couldn't see this happening as like it or not Guinness is the biggest selling drink in Ireland by a long way so they have something of a monopoly over the pubs. Most pubs have tried several times over the last few years to flog Beamish at as little as €3 a pint but it just isn't gonna fly!

What are essentially niche pubs selling craft beers are grand in the major cities but there would be space for 1 of these max in even large towns around the country, and as someone noted earlier, the vast majority of publicans realised early on that they make more off someone who drinks 10 pints of commercial stuff than 4 bottles of Erdinger so they are unlikely to really be interested in going down that road.

The new Dublin does Fridays ads are a bit shít but there is still a lot of truth in the fact that no one ever met Mr. or Mrs. Right in their sitting room clutching a bottle of Young's Double Chocolate Stout or Banana Bread Beer.

saywhatyousee

What publicans should do is
Price bottles of beer at 2 euro(Even at that there making a 100% profit)
Soft drinks at no more than 1.50
All spirits at 2.50(Again a spirit measure cost the publican about a euro)
All pints at 3 euro
Sit back and watch your business boom

mikemac1

And hand out some baskets of cocktail sausages and chips during the night

Costs pretty much nothing to buy, fry and serve but keeps the customers in your pub

Nothingbetter2d

2ndcoming wrote: »

I find if I buy 6 cans for home consumption I might have one or two then the rest might sit a week easy, but the main reason for that is that it's just no craic! The drinking itself isn't what I find enjoyable, without the socialising aspect it loses it's appeal, but that's just me.

Agree with many of the sentiments here re pricing, especially on soft-drinks and especially on dash mixers, if you're going to charge anything it should be 50c max for a dash. Some pubs, particularly those aimed at younger punters, seem to be stocking cans of Coke and the other big minerals and selling them for a euro or so which makes tons of sense as not only does it offer better value to the customer they don't have to return the cans as they do with bottles.

As for people saying the VFI should organise some sort of mass campaign against Diageo, I just couldn't see this happening as like it or not Guinness is the biggest selling drink in Ireland by a long way so they have something of a monopoly over the pubs. Most pubs have tried several times over the last few years to flog Beamish at as little as €3 a pint but it just isn't gonna fly!

What are essentially niche pubs selling craft beers are grand in the major cities but there would be space for 1 of these max in even large towns around the country, and as someone noted earlier, the vast majority of publicans realised early on that they make more off someone who drinks 10 pints of commercial stuff than 4 bottles of Erdinger so they are unlikely to really be interested in going down that road.

The new Dublin does Fridays ads are a bit shít but there is still a lot of truth in the fact that no one ever met Mr. or Mrs. Right in their sitting room clutching a bottle of Young's Double Chocolate Stout or Banana Bread Beer.

its exactly that kind of thinking that keeps companies like Diageo in control.

there is many more people from other countries in ireland that don't drink guinness, or other diageo based beers, most Polish/Czech people wouldn't touch any of the crap beers diageo produce. As many of us Irish have Polish friends we have begun to see why they don't like our Diageo brand beers. They taste like watered down pints if crap.

For pubs to stand up against Diageo and supply other brands of beer would likely bring in more of our fellow eu citizens that live in ireland to their pubs.

More choice more customers.

Biggins

Eire sun wrote: »

...I really miss the craic of old and to honest I am a little resentful to have lost that but we just can not afford our pubs any more. €2.50 euro pints... bring it on!

In the last year or so (and I mentioned this previously then at the time on boards.ie) there was pub in the west who was serving cheaper drink than the rest of his competitors in his local village - and they for obvious reason, didn't like it.
(The matter itself was reported in a paper which I read at the time)
The opposition in the small town/village got on to the VFI who sent down a two man delegation from Dublin to have a 'quiet word' in the bar owners ear.
Basically they told him to stop selling cheaper drink than his competition in the area or he might start having problems/delays with keg deliveries from certain breweries. The hints were to the effect that he might have problems running his business further!

The bar owner at the time, the day before (he stated this himself in the paper at the time) had been making out a cheque for the renewal of his membership for the VFI and was about to send it off the next day when the rep's from the very organisation turned up.
According to his then own words in the newspaper article, after hearing them out, he went to his office, took the cheque and its envelope back out to the reps, told them what it was and proceeded to rip it up in front of them.
He then told the reps to get the hell off his property - and all this was done in front of customers in the bar who corroborated the event for the paper.
I was in Galway for a few days visiting a friend at the time and remember reading the article.
It stuck in my mind as it wasn't the first time I'd heard about the 'power' of the VFI from heads in Dublin.
My only regret is that I didn't keep a copy of the article.

My point is that I know of some rural publican places (around Louth and Meath) that would love to introduce cheaper drink - but others in the same business, in the same area, is trying to convince (one way or another) such publicans that a quiet unofficial local cartel on approx same prices in their area, was the only way to go.

Solair

It very much depends on where you are, but some pubs really don't make any effort at all. There's nothing charming or quaint about a run-down dive with a weird smell (something between toilets and over-cooked carvery), dull lighting, stained furniture and grumpy staff.

Some pubs in both urban and rural areas make a huge effort though and it generally pays off as they have customers and busy businesses!

There are a lot of pubs that seem to be doing nothing to innovate and just moaning about the downturn.

Also, I don't mean to stereotype, but the people who have suffered the biggest reduction in disposable income in Ireland are also the same profile of people who would probably have spent a lot of money in pubs.

i.e. young-ish males in the trades/construction sector at one end and bankers / speculators at the other end.

Then there are rural pubs in areas where the population has shrunk rapidly or where there's been a much deeper impact on incomes e.g. parts of places like Leitrim have gone from relatively booming to back to how they were in the early 90s because their entire economy was based on building houses for mythical buyers who never existed. It was nice while it lasted, but they've a lot of empty and unnecessary houses and armature developers in heaps of debt as a result.

Seomra Mushie

"Consumption increased three-fold between 1960 and 2001......The trend towards home drinking is linked to the increase in consumption"

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Completely ignoring that (i) alcohol consumption has significantly decreased in the last decade, (ii). The 'home drinking' trend (and cheap supermarket prices) is very much a phenomenon of the last 5 years or less.

Looking at the actual facts tells us that (i) the previous rise in alcohol consumption was mostly pub-based drinking, (ii) people drinking at home drink less than in the pub.

Yep, if I'm correct, the major surge in drinking came during the boom years, when people had way more disposable income.

Publicans took advantage of this very booming economy by raising prices to extortionate levels. Well sorry, publicans, the boom is long gone, time to adjust prices again!

Ghandee

Biggins wrote: »

In the last year or so (and I mentioned this previously then at the time on boards.ie) there was pub in the west who was serving cheaper drink than the rest of his competitors in his local village - and they for obvious reason, didn't like it.
(The matter itself was reported in a paper which I read at the time)
The opposition in the small town/village got on to the VFI who sent down a two man delegation from Dublin to have a 'quiet word' in the bar owners ear.
Basically they told him to stop selling cheaper drink than his competition in the area or he might start having problems/delays with keg deliveries from certain breweries. The hints were to the effect that he might have problems running his business further!

The bar owner at the time, the day before (he stated this himself in the paper at the time) had been making out a cheque for the renewal of his membership for the VFI and was about to send it off the next day when the rep's from the very organisation turned up.
According to his then own words in the newspaper article, after hearing them out, he went to his office, took the cheque and its envelope back out to the reps, told them what it was and proceeded to rip it up in front of them.
He then told the reps to get the hell off his property - and all this was done in front of customers in the bar who corroborated the event for the paper.
I was in Galway for a few days visiting a friend at the time and remember reading the article.
It stuck in my mind as it wasn't the first time I'd heard about the 'power' of the VFI from heads in Dublin.
My only regret is that I didn't keep a copy of the article.

My point is that I know of some rural publican places (around Louth and Meath) that would love to introduce cheaper drink - but others in the same business, in the same area, is trying to convince (one way or another) such publicans that a quiet unofficial local cartel on approx same prices in their area, was the only way to go.

Sounds like something from the Sopranos Biggins!

I do not doubt it for one second though!

zenno

everyone wants to socialize out and away from their homes but it's not really an experience when you can only afford 4 pints and down almost 20 smackers as anyone could get 20 cans of the stuff for that and have a good house party if you have a group involved. I agree that out in a nice pub with friends and meeting strangers that can be sound is great but like I said the price needs to come down and also for a topping of coke on your jack Daniels is insanely priced.

game of pool and the sounds going and all that is bang on and when you leave for home after a good night it's just the business but it would feel more fulfilling if we all didn't have to worry about the damn overpriced drinks. having a few beers at home with a few people over i will admit after this happening quite a few times it can get boring as well and i'd love to get out there and enjoy the nightlife but it's out of my reach regarding cash especially on a budget. I really can't see the publicans lowering their prices to 2.50 because from the day i remember they are too greedy and will not do so and never will that's just the way they are, hard necked people.

Seomra Mushie

Ghandee wrote: »

We need Wetherspoons in Ireland!

*falls to knees*

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Ghandee

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

*falls to knees drunk as a skunk on less than €20*

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Sounds alright to me!

Bottles of Tyskie for 2.50 each :pac:

mikemac1

They have a grand Wetherspoons in Enniskillen, good barfood and a great selection of wine

The one in Belfast is busy too

Come south of the border please
I remember they were going to open on Capel St in Dublin but nothing happened in the end

Biggins

Ghandee wrote: »

Sounds like something from the Sopranos Biggins!

I do not doubt it for one second though!

A few HAVE decidedly kopped on and are following the http://www.beoir.org/ route.

Beoir is an independent group of consumers with a primary goal of supporting and raising awareness of Ireland's native independent microbreweries.

More power to them! I wish them luck.

Seomra Mushie

Ghandee wrote: »

Sounds alright to me!

Bottles of Tyskie for 2.50 each :pac:

Sorry, lived in the UK for a while, Wetherspoons feckin' everywhere!

Paparazzo

Why did Wetherspoons never make it to ireland? There was talk of them coming here about 10 years ago. I'm guessing the LVA/IVA were something to do with it.

Ghandee

Maybe we should organise a campaign to lobby Wetherspoons to set up over here?

Just so long as they dont follow Tesco's trend of charging the Irish public more than the UK for same stuff.