The pub loses its pulling power

Solair

The Publicans would be up in arms claiming it was worse than the Act of Union.

There's a good opportunity for UK chain pubs to enter this market though, there'll be a lot of good empty pubs going cheap soon!

jack presley

Ghandee wrote: »

Maybe we should organise a campaign to lobby Wetherspoons to set up over here?

Just so long as they dont follow Tesco's trend of charging the Irish public more than the UK for same stuff.

If they did set up here the price of a pint in euro is never going to be the same as the sterling equivalent. Different minimum wage, different excuse duty, different VAT etc

Paparazzo

Ghandee wrote: »

Maybe we should organise a campaign to lobby Wetherspoons to set up over here?

Just so long as they dont follow Tesco's trend of charging the Irish public more than the UK for same stuff.

I'd guess they'd charge more here, but still less than the local pubs.
At least when you ask for coke, you get a large glass for fúck all. And they have a few different types of ales on draught.

theteal

Did they not try to open a weatherspoons before in dublin and the move was blocked by vested interests?

i had a grand night with herself here in a weatherspoons-esque place on friday. draught selection wasn't great, similar to home (becks was probably the most exotic) but when you can get a pint and a vodka w/diet coke for ~£4.50, i'll overlook my taste for premium beer. there was music playing but it was not loud by any means. the place was busy and the crowd had an indie/studenty feel to it. i can see it being my new local

Biggins

Paparazzo wrote: »

Why did Wetherspoons never make it to ireland? There was talk of them coming here about 10 years ago. I'm guessing the LVA/IVA were something to do with it.

This might help in answer to that question:

Wetherspoon looked at setting up in the Republic, even buying a premises in Temple Bar: “I never went over there to have a look, but it was bought for a vast amount and it was to be a vast amount to do it up.

“Then, property prices started doubling, or tripling, or whatever they did and we thought that we were going to end up with having just one pub, so we retreated. We sold the place we had before we opened it. Quite wise, really, it could have been a life-saver.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0603/1224298315918.html

Zebra3

2ndcoming wrote: »

The new Dublin does Fridays ads are a bit shít but there is still a lot of truth in the fact that no one ever met Mr. or Mrs. Right in their sitting room clutching a bottle of Young's Double Chocolate Stout or Banana Bread Beer.

You sound like a publican pushing the "pub is the centre of the universe" line.

There are other places to meet people than a pub. :rolleyes:

Nothingbetter2d

Zebra3 wrote: »

You sound like a publican pushing the "pub is the centre of the universe" line.

There are other places to meet people than a pub. :rolleyes:

yeah the dole queue seems to have plenty of people & its growing in numbers, plenty of people to meet there.

Barna77

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

tescos should open up pubs.

All those card points would finally have a good use

Ghandee wrote: »

We need Wetherspoons in Ireland!

As long as they don't sell San Miguel here as they do in the UK :eek:

2ndcoming

Zebra3 wrote: »

You sound like a publican pushing the "pub is the centre of the universe" line.

There are other places to meet people than a pub. :rolleyes:

Re-reading it I suppose I do, but I'm not. To be honest, for all the whingeing they do I reckon I'd be a lot better off if I was one though. Like the bookie, are there many poor ones?

You're quite right too, and for some people a trip to the museum is ideal for a hunt for love, but I'd say the vast majority of Irish people, if they didn't actually meet in a pub or niteclub or at some function, they would have "hooked up" for the first time in one.

I'm all for cheaper nights out, I'd be happy if you could even just get bottles of Corona or the like for €2 as you can in many places across the pond, but to all the people saying "pah, good riddance to pubs they made their money now I've got my 6 pack of Tyskie I don't need ya anymore", I think there's more to going out than just how much it costs you to get wasted, a good pub is an important part of any community.

This downturn has affected pubs no doubt but hopefully only the bad / lazy ones that don't focus on trying to give good deals, keeping a clean house, providing decent food and making a genuine effort to get a good reputation, and keeping it.

jackal

They could not have got it more wrong. I love pubs with character, some of the best pubs in dublin are like something from well before the 50's. Thank god for them too, they usually know how to look after their lines and pour a good pint, and are generally efficient when its busy and friendly when its quiet.

Used to love meeting up with mates in a pub in town, say 8 of ya, 3 couples and a few singles or whatever.

Now, consider when its your round, for example a fairly typical round:

4 330 ml bottled beers (heinken/carlsberg/bud/miller - choose one!) @ 5.50 = €22
1 wine €6
2 spirits and a large mixer to share @ 4/3 = €11
a ballygowan or a soft drink for the non drinker. €3

Im having a guess at some of the prices, as its never something I consider, you just get the round in.
Total per round: €40 quid or thereabouts.

Now, get more than one round in and you are spending as much as you would on your weeks shopping. And god forbid you start hitting the jaegerbombs or other stuff later.

Alternatively, meet up in someone's place and drink your beer/wine of choice all night for 10/15 euro, smoke/smoke away (if its allowed) and drink as late as you are let stay. Oh and there won't be a lad in the jacks handing you towels and aftershave, nor will the price of things go up as the night goes on. There may be a slight queue at the fridge.

There are downsides of course. You are unlikely to meet strangers, potential romance, etc, and you may not be close enough to a take away to get a kebab on the way home.

ScumLord

Here's the reason people don't go to pubs any more. They're boring.

When I was a young lad pubs where great craic, they'd have pool tables and gaming machines and a play area, there was a whole lot more to do than today. even pubs I know with a pool table move the thing every Saturday night and when it's moved back there's a roll on the table. Not a bread roll.

It's not like the pre-boom times when people had no choice but the pub, pubs are in direct competition with a lot of different establishments and they're not even bothering to compete.

zenno

This man know's his sh1t ^^^ the truth.

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

In the last year or so (and I mentioned this previously then at the time on boards.ie) there was pub in the west who was serving cheaper drink than the rest of his competitors in his local village - and they for obvious reason, didn't like it.
(The matter itself was reported in a paper which I read at the time)
The opposition in the small town/village got on to the VFI who sent down a two man delegation from Dublin to have a 'quiet word' in the bar owners ear.
Basically they told him to stop selling cheaper drink than his competition in the area or he might start having problems/delays with keg deliveries from certain breweries. The hints were to the effect that he might have problems running his business further!


My point is that I know of some rural publican places (around Louth and Meath) that would love to introduce cheaper drink - but others in the same business, in the same area, is trying to convince (one way or another) such publicans that a quiet unofficial local cartel on approx same prices in their area, was the only way to go.

i've known similar in the east as well.

the unofficial cartel? ha. Wasnt there an official one some years ago?

The law needs to change.

the law of licence* access, on supplier* access the whole shebang.

but ye have the anti-drink crowd (i forget their name) saying 'publicans understand alcohol is not sweets and so behave responsibly'.


maybe some do, but that's no guarantee all will. The only time i saw a refusal was to the publicans benefit (avoiding hassle of one kind or another - not for the customers welfare, that's for sure)

but this idea that alcohol is some crazy lunatic weapon which cannot be served by any but the 'professionals' is nonsense.

Why. because the publicans are not 'professionals'. they are not scientist, doctors or anything like that. they're in the business of selling product to make money - that's all. To suggest its safer to leave alcohol sales in their hands is laughable.

in Oz anyone can open a bar - anyone (long as they've no criminal record) the result, nice unusual bars ran by young people, chilled out spots.

* licence - there is a limit of licences issued. the publicans have been using it as security, similar to the taxi crowd. but a retail business should be valued the same as any retail business by reputation/ good name, quality, location, foot fall etc.

* suppliers - the restrictions are crazy. this is a big, big problem and flies in the face of standard competition law. it's lunacy and it's making change almost impossible

yes el Paddy was a psycho, but that's changing and the law should change with it.

texidub

They ARE boring now that's for sure.. and having halved my time between the US and Ireland for the past decade or more the differences are really brought home.

One contrast: if you've been drinking all night at a bar Stateside (at least in my city) chances are the bartender will give you a few drinks free whether it's sharing in a round of shots or whatever. That's almost unheard of in Ireland!

Of course, the free pool and dollar specials --not the best beer, but there's a decent sized can of beer available for a dollar most nights somewhere in the city-- also help to keep the pubs alive.

The publicans here seem to suffer from a bad dose of inflexibility. But to be honest, they are not alone in this. It's the same inflexibility that infects and paralyzes a lot of Irish endevaours.

Times change. You can change with them and move into a different business or adjust your business model, or you can beg for legislation as a vested interest to try and stem the tide of change.

It seems to me that the Irish 'business' mentality is always to aim for the latter, instead of making the necessary adjustments.

Big Nasty

Why would you want to go to a pub nowadays in fairness?

My idea of a perfect night out is good beer, good food, good music and good company. In most pubs the only one of these I can get is the company while at home I can get all of the above at a fraction of the price.

To be fair to pubs they can't really lower their prices as most of them don't have a huge amount of business bar Friday and Saturday night and this has to carry the rest of the week. They also have staff costs, public liability, and everything else that goes with running a pub. Yes, many pubs could do with providing better entertainment but to justify even a small three piece band costing maybe €400 they have to take in an extra €1200 to break even on the band.

Publicans had it good for a long time. Having a pub, even in the assholes of nowhere, was a licence to print money. Different story today. Most pubs you go in to have the same selection of beer, i.e. Guinness, Smithwicks, Carlsberg, Heineken, etc., all of which you can buy a case of for €15 in Tesco. They also have practically the same menus, e.g. Steak, burgers, breaded chicken, salmon and a veggie stir fry and most of the time I would cook better myself for a fraction of the price.

What publicans need to do now is diversify. I.e., have a different food offering than any other pub in your area, have a different beer menu than any other pub in your area, serve wine by the glass at a reasonable price (€4-€7) and have a selection of well mixed cocktails at €5 each. As well as having an exceptional menu they need to have exceptional staff, not just someone paying their way through college but people who have a genuine interest in the trade, are well educated on the products they serve and know that giving that little bit extra will keep your customers coming back.

Serving crap beer at €3 a pint is not the answer. Providing an interesting alternative to sitting at home on the couch with a cheap beer in your hand is.

Ghandee

MCMLXXV wrote: »

.

What publicans need to do now is diversify. I.e., have a different food offering than any other pub in your area, have a different beer menu than any other pub in your area, serve wine by the glass at a reasonable price (€4-€7) and have a selection of well mixed cocktails at €5 each. As well as having an exceptional menu they need to have exceptional staff, not just someone paying their way through college but people who have a genuine interest in the trade, are well educated on the products they serve and know that giving that little bit extra will keep your customers coming back.

.

That is not a reasonable price for a glass of wine :eek:

Maybe that price for a half bottle or something tops.

Big Nasty

Ghandee wrote: »

That is not a reasonable price for a glass of wine :eek:

Maybe that price for a half bottle or something tops.

Most pubs charge €5 for a sh1tty qtr bottle of wine. I'm talking about a range of wines starting at €4 per glass for a house wine to €7 per glass for an exceptional one.

Ghandee

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Most pubs charge €5 for a sh1tty qtr bottle of wine. I'm talking about a range of wines starting at €4 per glass for a house wine to €7 per glass for an exceptional one.

Ok, makes a bit more sense when you explain it like that.

I thought you were suggesting the price of 4-7€ for a glass of Jacobs Creek, or Wallys hut or something that can be bought by the bottle for 5-7€

bleg

Bierhaus in Cork and the Franciscan Well are two examples of great pubs that have diversified and they're very busy any time I'm in there.

jluv

I'm all for the cheaper option of getting drink in supermarket and staying home as I cannot afford/justify the money i spend if I were to go out. The downside is it has made me "lazy" about going out. have to get dressed up,spend €50 and not get anything really for my money OR pj's,fire, food and wine for €10-€15 I find myself more and more going for the second option. But I also feel I'm losing the social part of me...:(

Buceph

bleg wrote: »

Bierhaus in Cork and the Franciscan Well are two examples of great pubs that have diversified and they're very busy any time I'm in there.

Don't forget The Abbott's Ale House, get's very busy on some nights.

dan1895

I'm having an engagement party this weekend. After calculating the cost of food, a few bottles of sparkly, a couple of bottles of spirits and a few communal beers, its still coming in cheaper than going to the pub. And everyone can relax and take their time and there will be no one trying to beat the clock meaning that come 4 am whoever is still there will more than likely be having a bit of craic and/or engaging in conversation rather than out on the street somewhere puking their ring up.

wandatowell

Paid 4 quid for a pint of smithwicks in the local at Christmas and the price has stayed the same since.

Happy days,

Nothingbetter2d

how many pubs will be cooking pancakes today?

Nothingbetter2d

to any pub owners complaining about lack of customers here is a thread summary

1. Prices - Lower the cost of the drink, including soft drinks. Add more variety to cater for the now abundant members of non nationals that now live in Ireland

2. Music - Its too loud turn it down so people don't have to shout at each other to have a conversation

3. Food - the menus in most irish pubs is too bland these days. add more variety to cater for the many non nationals as well as nationals living in Ireland these days.

4. Hygiene - Clean the toilets for gods sake. Most of the staff are standing around doing feck all anyways have them scrub the toilets a few times a day.

5. Decor - make sure your pub looks good... dingy run down pubs wont attract customers.

6. Smoking area - make sure its clean, dry, and sheltered from the wind & rain.

Zebra3

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Add more variety to cater for the now abundant members of non nationals that now live in Ireland

And for Irish people who will no longer drink the bland mass-marketed p*ss that you think passes as beer.

ScumLord

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

3. Food - the menus in most irish pubs is too bland these days. add more variety to cater for the many non nationals as well as nationals living in Ireland these days.

Not every place can do food, I asked one bar owner why don't you serve food or even get a coffee machine in? They said a coffee machine costs a fortune to run and if your not getting people drinking out of it every day it's just going to suck the money out of your pockets. Most small pubs don't have the room for a kitchen to prepare food so they're kind of restricted to sandwich and chicken nuggets type affair.


Personally I want to see gaming back in the pub, driving games, air hockey, fuzz ball, the works. When I was growing up pubs survived on the kids coming out from school playing video games and selling the odd soft drink and pack of crisps, then when the adults come in later your told to feck off home.

I'm in my 30s now, the gaming generation has grown up and the pubs are still living in the 70s with regard new technology.

gurramok

More in the IT today, food and craft beers are mentioned. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2012/0221/1224312113128.html

And price!

Price remains a major issue for the public and complaints about “greedy publicans” are frequently heard. It’s a label Counihan refuses to accept: “We’re definitely not greedy and we can’t afford to be because our customers will walk if we are.”

The vintners’ groups argue that costs are driven up by over-regulation of the sector. There is no point in comparing prices in off-licences and pubs because the overall products, and the costs involved in providing them, are so different. Lynch’s rates bill is €65,000 a year.

The VFI admits that tourists sometimes comment that drink is expensive in Ireland but says publicans should point out that excise is higher here than in other countries.

Further contraction in the pub sector is inevitable, but a combination of specialisation, an increase in tourist numbers and restrictions on the off-licence trade offers grounds for hope for an eventual improvement in the fortunes of the Irish pub.

kfallon

Love the pub, a Saturday without the pub and the banter is like a day without breathing

Paparazzo

gurramok wrote: »

More in the IT today, food and craft beers are mentioned. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2012/0221/1224312113128.html

And price!

The VFI admits that tourists sometimes comment that drink is expensive in Ireland but says publicans should point out that excise is higher here than in other countries.

Massive excise on soft drinks, water and other non alcoholic drinks :rolleyes: . They still have their fingers in their ears when it comes down to price. They can continue to pretend it's nothing to do with price, and pubs will continue to close.