The pub loses its pulling power

ArtSmart

yes. there is an implication that if it's cheap people will automatically become alcoholics.

there has been some dubious talk from the anti-drink crowd, that that is exactly the case.

its nonsense. in Sweden etc where drink is very very expensive (bec of govt tax) alcoholism has not fallen.

let me say though under-age purchasing protection must be in place -but in truth, pubs broke those rules themselves until new laws were actually enforced! but such protection is quite possible with supmkts. but the ' low price leads to alcoholism' argument is bogus.

If Heroin was given out free, would we become a nation of junkies?

Dave147

ArtSmart wrote: »

..If Heroin was given out free, would we become a nation of junkies?

Can you imagine what this country would be like if Heroin was free? There are junkies all over the place as it is.

ArtSmart

Dave147 wrote: »

Can you imagine what this country would be like if Heroin was free? There are junkies all over the place as it is.

LOl.

so if your were offered free Heroin you'd take it? Coz it was free?

LOL.

I like you Dave, you're funny.

anyway, work to do

(unless the Heroin starts coming)

tigger123

Dave147 wrote: »

For the record...

With regard to my comment about Supermarkets, the problem there is that drink is becoming too accessible as a daily habit. Whatever about my "agenda" as a publican it's not rocket science to see that binge drinking at home (or in pubs for that matter) is bad for your health and bad for society.

I can't get over this post.

You as a publican are now expressing concern at the amount of alcohol purchased in supermarkets ... because of public health???! While publicans around the country will happily sell it to people day in day out in licensed premises? AND! Lobbied the government (through the IVA) to amend drink driving laws to allow people drive home after a few pints.

So as long as the public buy alcohol in your premises, well that's just dandy, but as soon as it's purchased from a supermarket, then it becomes a public health issue? :pac:

longhalloween

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That doesn't mean that they are selling below cost at all. Below cost means below what it costs them, not what it costs someone else. The big supermarkets probably bypass the wholesalers, buy in bulk and sell cheaper than the wholesalers while still making a profit.

But they do sell below cost. Individual Centra and SuperValu stores sell crates on special offer at below cost price then get reimbursed from Musgraves for their lost earnings.

Overheal

suicide_circus wrote: »

dave147,
The reason people here have a chip on our shoulders about publicans is simple - every single last one of us have been ripped off by publicans time and time and time again. And now that we're finally too broke to fork out the outrageous pub prices and choose to drink at home, publicans lobby for laws forcing their competitors (supermarkets) to increase their prices in order to force people back to pay their bloated prices! It actually ****ing beggars belief!!!!

This. Business law already prevents shops from selling products below cost (god the EU must be lovely!) if im not mistaken. So its not like they are competing unfairly with the pubs.

Its actually infuriating. Oh we can't compete. What do we do? Lets lobby the government to legislate our competitors out of business!

Biggins

Overheal wrote: »

...Its actually infuriating. Oh we can't compete. What do we do? Lets lobby the government to legislate our competitors out of business!

Indeed!

...And if they do go ahead and try that, there is already reports that the big supermarket chains will take the Irish government to court over European Anti-competitiveness laws and the breaking of sections with those laws related to their businesses.

...And who will get the eventual massive bill for that court fiasco as it will drag on for possibly years?
The public once again!

Dave147

tigger123 wrote: »

I can't get over this post.

You as a publican are now expressing concern at the amount of alcohol purchased in supermarkets ... because of public health???! While publicans around the country will happily sell it to people day in day out in licensed premises? AND! Lobbied the government (through the IVA) to amend drink driving laws to allow people drive home after a few pints.

So as long as the public buy alcohol in your premises, well that's just dandy, but as soon as it's purchased from a supermarket, then it becomes a public health issue? :pac:

Don't assume you know the policy of our business, there are alcoholics everywhere, if they don't get it in one pub they'll get it in another. It's simple, however buying 12 cans for a tenner in a supermarket is hardly going to hinder alcoholics in any way. Pubs have opening hours to adhere by, you can drink at home whenever you want. Anyway I'm giving up on this thread, the stereotyping in this thread is mind blowing, some of you just live for arguing on the internet, it's pathetic.

We're all money hungry greedy bastard publicans who want all your loved ones to drink themselves to death just so we can make the extra couple of euro to pay for my lovely rims and BMW's etc. blah blah blah, give it a fcuking rest. I hate using rolleyes, but my god do some of you deserve it. :rolleyes:

Dave147

ArtSmart wrote: »

LOl.

so if your were offered free Heroin you'd take it? Coz it was free?

LOL.

I like you Dave, you're funny.

anyway, work to do

(unless the Heroin starts coming)

Don't be stupid, are you living in the real world? If Heroin was free you don't think there would be more people addicted? Wow.

tigger123

Dave147 wrote: »

Don't assume you know the policy of our business, there are alcoholics everywhere, if they don't get it in one pub they'll get it in another. It's simple, however buying 12 cans for a tenner in a supermarket is hardly going to hinder alcoholics in any way. Pubs have opening hours to adhere by, you can drink at home whenever you want. Anyway I'm giving up on this thread, the stereotyping in this thread is mind blowing, some of you just live for arguing on the internet, it's pathetic.

We're all money hungry greedy bastard publicans who want all your loved ones to drink themselves to death just so we can make the extra couple of euro to pay for my lovely rims and BMW's etc. blah blah blah, give it a fcuking rest. I hate using rolleyes, but my god do some of you deserve it. :rolleyes:

Since when have publicans ever expressed concern about public health and alcohol? Since supermarkets and home drinking started to compete with them, that's when.

arse..biscuits

Dave147 wrote: »

Can you imagine what this country would be like if Heroin was free? There are junkies all over the place as it is.

At least there would be less crime.

Biggins

tigger123 wrote: »

Since when have publicans ever expressed concern about public health and alcohol? Since supermarkets and home drinking started to compete with them, that's when.

Spot on!

Prior to that they weren't so worried or said anything - O' no!
They just quietly just took the customers money when the times was good and they could get away with as much as they could!

...But heaven forbid a bit of real competition should creep in? O' no, we must stamp that out! Lets change the laws to make this so!
What excuse can we use? O' lets say its for health reasons alone! The public will swallow that - hopefully like our more expensive drink as we try to cut off their other avenues to cheaper drink!

If your in the current bar business and you can't make a profit, change, adapt or get the hell out of the business!
The public is sick and tired of having to prop up businesses and being made to do so by sly acts of ever changing government laws!

suicide_circus

Dave147 wrote: »

Don't assume you know the policy of our business, there are alcoholics everywhere, if they don't get it in one pub they'll get it in another. It's simple, however buying 12 cans for a tenner in a supermarket is hardly going to hinder alcoholics in any way. Pubs have opening hours to adhere by, you can drink at home whenever you want. Anyway I'm giving up on this thread, the stereotyping in this thread is mind blowing, some of you just live for arguing on the internet, it's pathetic.

We're all money hungry greedy bastard publicans who want all your loved ones to drink themselves to death just so we can make the extra couple of euro to pay for my lovely rims and BMW's etc. blah blah blah, give it a fcuking rest. I hate using rolleyes, but my god do some of you deserve it. :rolleyes:

Laughable. Nobody believes for one second that publicans are opposed to cheap supermarket drink on the grounds of public health, you must think we are absolute idiots. Quit talking bollix.

Sonnenblumen

Bottle of Guninness in a bar in Barbados cost B$ 2.00 (which is approx US € 1.00). Cost of same product in Irish Bar ?

Big proportion of the decline must be price related. Yeah little sympathy for another previously protected cartel.

Let the open market decide price and buying pattern.

Suck it up babies.

Stavro Mueller

Apart from the price issue which has been discussed here, what puts me off is the deafeningly loud music in so many places. You're in the pub, having the craic, chatting away to people when next thing someone pumps up the volume. End of conversation unless you fancy roaring in the ear of the person standing next to you for the rest of the night.

Niall0001

cymbaline wrote: »

Apart from the price issue which has been discussed here, what puts me off is the deafeningly loud music in so many places. You're in the pub, having the craic, chatting away to people when next thing someone pumps up the volume. End of conversation unless you fancy roaring in the ear of the person standing next to you for the rest of the night.

What do you do more of in pubs when the music's too loud to talk? More overpriced píss please, Mr. Barman.

Also: I find it rich that publicans are now whinging about health effects of drinking cheaper at home when said music in pubs often reaches 115 decibels. The safe noise level for the human ear is generally regarded as 90 decibels &, even in that instance, only for 2 hours.

Cherrycola

cymbaline wrote: »

Apart from the price issue which has been discussed here, what puts me off is the deafeningly loud music in so many places. You're in the pub, having the craic, chatting away to people when next thing someone pumps up the volume. End of conversation unless you fancy roaring in the ear of the person standing next to you for the rest of the night.

Didnt read the whole thread, but was just going to post the exact same comment!
This is the another reason i have stopped going to my local pub, which ive been going to for almost 20years now since i was a teen. It was seen as an old mans pub back then, we went there for family nights out, had great craic.
But it had a make over a few years ago and has since become THE place to go in town for all 'the young crowd', but what has happened is the older regulars have been forgotten about.
Yes they have to move with the times to make money, but there is now not one area in this pub that you can have a quiet drink and a chat, as all you can hear is the DJ blaring his music from 9.30pm 'til late!'
And i wouldnt mind but this place has a separate disco bar area, thats closed off from the main pub, but accessible all night long for whoever wants a boogie, so why they feel the need to blast the front bar with music all night long is beyond me.

And im not an ancient cronie i swear, i love a bit of music, but jaysus, not every night from Thurs-Sun, and not so frikkin loud!
The last time i was there i left with a sore throat from shouting to be heard all night. It was hell! And we have vowed never to go again as long as this DJ trend continues.

Ronan cork

I think a lot of it boils down to choice. Do you see any off licence that only sells Heineken, carlsberg, bud, Coors light, miller, Guinness, murphys and corona? Yet a lot of pubs do...
I like my beer and often pay 4-5 euro for a bottle in an offie instead of having a pint of piss for the same money. I run a small bar that offers around 75 beers and none of the above that is doing just fine!
The problem with Dublin pubs in general is that the rent and overheads are massive and they are run by accountants not publicans who are behind the bar and are capable of spotting trends. These big bars have owners that are there once a year and gm's that sit in offices. The best bars have owners or people that give a **** behind the counter not surly teenagers who care more about how their hair looks than what's in your glass

I'm going to end this rant now and go for a pint because I feel like getting out of the house for a bit which I think is as good a reason as any!

I do agree that the dj killed the social scene

dan1895

Was just coming in to comment on the choice of beers. Whats available in most pubs is the big, heavily advertised bland beers like bud, carlsberg etc. Four pints of these chemical monstrosities will have my head thumping the next day. But something from the porter house's range of own beers, a german beer or an english ale usually has me fresh as a daisy the next morning regardless of how much I drink the previous night.

Seomra Mushie

Dave147 wrote: »

With regard to my comment about Supermarkets, the problem there is that drink is becoming too accessible as a daily habit.

This is such horseshít. Dave, even if I was able to buy a naggin of vodka for 50c, I wouldn't, couldn't, become an alcoholic, it's just not in me. I drink mostly at home now, two, maybe three nights a month, then head out to a late bar with friends. I drink less than I did ten years ago when I went to pubs, then onto late bars/nightclubs, despite it being cheaper to drink now. If someone wants to drink round the clock, they don't care what the price is.

Also, as if publicans give a shít about the health of the public. In the linked article in the OP, one publican whined that people were only having one or two drinks, then heading home, as if that was a terrible thing. Tell me, does that publican care how much her customers drink?

saywhatyousee

The Pub must the only business in the world that can charge a 200%-500% mark up on items and still claim not to be able to make a profit.

Heroditas

Reasons I am fed up with most of the pubs here:
1. Loud music
2. TVs hanging off every square inch of wall showing either Sky News or Sky Sports News
3. Bland booze at high prices
4. Woeful food

It's no coincidence that places like the Bull and Castle, Porterhouse, L. Mulligan Grocer, Against the Grain or the Exchequer are doing well.

Apart from those, I only really ever go to the Stag's Head ... mainly because it has no TVs and no music (unless you go down to the basement) and I can hold a conversation with my mates.

Owldshtok

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

This is such horseshít. Dave, even if I was able to buy a naggin of vodka for 50c, I wouldn't, couldn't, become an alcoholic, it's just not in me. I drink mostly at home now, two, maybe three nights a month, then head out to a late bar with friends. I drink less than I did ten years ago when I went to pubs, then onto late bars/nightclubs, despite it being cheaper to drink now. If someone wants to drink round the clock, they don't care what the price is.

Also, as if publicans give a shít about the health of the public. In the linked article in the OP, one publican whined that people were only having one or two drinks, then heading home, as if that was a terrible thing. Tell me, does that publican care how much her customers drink?

That's true.Heavy drinkers or young first timers experimenting will always find a way to afford booze,so the price argument is weak.Accessibility might be the key if the gov./publicans want to nanny us.Think of Father Jack drinkin Toilet Duck.Back to the days of home-brew!

ShooterSF

As someone who works in the trade. The first thing the pubs need to do is do anything they can to get some people in the doors. Pool tournament, cheap drink or such. Midweek where I am is a ghost town. No one goes to the pub because everyone knows they'll just be empty.
Get an atmosphere going and word of mouth will do you a tonne of favours. For me its the lack of nice beers like others have mentioned or no effort to promote them when a place gets one in, resulting in it disappearing soon after. Guess what? These beers don't have massive marketing budgets but if you do the work for them you could have something different and possibly cheaper. Something that gets people in a group saying "Hey can we meet in X's they have that nice beer"
Next, quit charging for dashes. Better still carry a larger selection of dashes and sell non-drinkers cheap minerals from these bottles. They are people you want to attract, they're potentially free taxis at the end of the night for your paying punters (something that can bring both groups back).
Third, something the place I work for does well, if you don't sell food throw out some finger food around 9 or 10 midweek and on quiet weekends. People get hungry and that gives your main rival for a punter sitting at your bar, the dreaded takeaway, a good chance of drawing your customer away early. Don't let them win.
Fourth, provide something to do, especially midweek. Be it a deck of cards, a game console, board games, free pool, darts etc. have it available for those that want it. The more the better. I like to unwind and share some small talk from time to time but **** me there's only so much before I need an outlet, I'm sure many others feel the same.
Fifth, even if it costs me a job, perhaps get a nice pair of tits behind the bar

Overheal

Dave147 wrote: »

Don't assume you know the policy of our business, there are alcoholics everywhere, if they don't get it in one pub they'll get it in another. It's simple, however buying 12 cans for a tenner in a supermarket is hardly going to hinder alcoholics in any way. Pubs have opening hours to adhere by, you can drink at home whenever you want. Anyway I'm giving up on this thread, the stereotyping in this thread is mind blowing, some of you just live for arguing on the internet, it's pathetic.

We're all money hungry greedy bastard publicans who want all your loved ones to drink themselves to death just so we can make the extra couple of euro to pay for my lovely rims and BMW's etc. blah blah blah, give it a fcuking rest. I hate using rolleyes, but my god do some of you deserve it. :rolleyes:

Now now, there is no need to invoke the almighty. Though I do have a soft spot for him :rolleyes:

The point of the matter is it seems terribly disingenuous of a publican to proclaim the criticism of package stores is down to health concerns. Indeed, the package store has always been there. Nothing has stopped that before. The pub trade never worried about people having cans in their living rooms or downing two wine bottles to themselves every night before. It's only when the pub trade's business started drying up that the pub trade came out and started scapegoating the package stores :rolleyes:

Its also not as if Publicans were supportive of promoting public health when the smoking ban happened. Oh no. Don't even get me started on that. The pub industry had conniptions about the smoking ban :rolleyes:

Also it's not as if Publicans are part of a trade, in the traditional sense. There's no 'code'. As if publicans never serve someone who is already intoxicated, which is on paper what is suppose to happen. Publicans will not shoo away the bar fly who sits there from 4 in the afternoon until closing, in the corner with his pints. They aren't worried about his health. As if you ever worried if your regulars were ever alcoholics?

Cop on :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with your car and everything to do with the disingenuous nature of your argument and that of your industry. Why don't publicans everywhere grow a pair and find better ways to attract business?

I mean just as an example there is this standalone pizza place within walking distance of my technical college. I tried to go there for lunch once, the place was empty. Ended up paying $13 between the drink, 2 slices and a tip. When I asked them if they did any student specials, they scoffed at me. Sh*t you not. They'd rather leave the place empty during the day than thin the profit margin a little bit to fill the place up with students. There is a business that is missing out on a huge revenue opportunity 5 days a week because it doesn't promote to the next door college. I can only imagine what the owner is thinking about when he is trying to figure out how he can grow his business. Think. Critically Think!

iregk

Ah yes. The publican comes on here, gets some home truths and then leaves in a huff complaining about stereotypes. I've not read the entire thread, only bit and pieces but here is my two cents, which most likely has been covered by others.

As someone who used to be a bar man I've seen it from the inside (so to speak). Saturday night there used to be a Q to get into our pub. It was just a pub! The manager got rid of the pool tables and dart boards when he realised he could squeeze another 20 people in in those spaces. Add to this the completely random price increases almost weekly.

We used to serve some good quality German beer on draught but then they realised people who drink that have 3 or 4 pints as opposed to the lads that drink the dour Carlsberg at 8-9 pints a night.

Anyway skip forward 15 years and society and people have changed. People perception and ideas have changed and the pub has sleep walked it way out of existence. What reason do we have to go to pubs now? What does the product offer? Crap generic bland beers at outrageous prices that you drink while sitting at a table. Now I can do exactly that at home but while drinking cheaper much nicer wheat beers or other world beers.

When your customer base changes you have two choices, change to adapt or complain and go out of business. Currently the pubs are stuck in option 2. They need to actually listen to people and change to adapt, but they won't because that means 1. spending money and 2. changing their mindset. They won't do either as they feel if they lobby the government then they won't have to do either they will simply force people to do what they want. If the pubs really want to survive and make a good profit they need to entice people back in, give us a reason to go back to the pub. Serve up some nice interesting beers, give us entertainment and not in the way of a "dj" who is actually just someone who can use media player on a laptop that blasts the ears off people. Poker nights, race nights, pool tables, dart boards, themed nights etc... but as I said, all that takes time, effort and imagination. Why do that when you can complain to the media and bar dunnes from selling cheaper crap carlsberg!

mikemac1

Dave147 the publican on this thread complaining about people drinking cans at home and drink being so accessible, the unsupervised alcoholic

Well there's no off-licence in my village
But the pubs will sell you take out, just tell them what you want and it's yours in a plastic bag to take home

Prices are reasonable, ok not as cheap as Tesco but no small business can match them. But if you want to take fifteen cans home the publican is happy for your business.

I'm no legal eagle, not sure how the license works for this, I worked in another bar once and we were not allowed to do this. Maybe some places have an additional license

So realy, what's the publicans point? Many of them sell for people to drink at home yet then complain about it

mikemac1

I'm getting mixed up with this thread and the pub trade is dying thread

Time for a merge mods?

Zebra3

More whinging in the Times today.

Why are they so supportive of the publicans?

Biggins

Zebra3 wrote: »

More whinging in the Times today.

Why are they so supportive of the publicans?

This one?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311962363.html?via=mr

or

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311952256.html?via=mr