The pub loses its pulling power

jay-me

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311962363.html?via=mr

THE IRISH PUB, says the Lonely Planet travel guide, is the country’s number-one attraction. Yet it is also doomed, according to leading food writer John McKenna. Health campaigners have its products in their cross-hairs, but the truth is that many of us are increasingly indifferent to its long-standing charms.

It isn’t all that long since the pub held a society in thrall. Birthday, Communion and funeral ceremonies would eventually make their way to its darkened interiors. Family members would be despatched to drag reluctant drinkers out of their locals. Early risers joined all-nighters for a pint on the way to work. People boasted about being locked into small, dank rooms for the night with a set of beer taps.
Now pubs are closing at a rate of one every two days – more than 1,100 since 2005. Their decline has frequently been cited as yet another example of rural decay, but pubs in all areas, and of all types, are calling time.

Only last week, some of Dublin’s trendiest watering-holes – the Odeon, Pod and Crawdaddy on Harcourt Street – closed their doors, as did the downstairs venue at the Lower Deck in Portobello. North of the Liffey, the traditional “12 apostles” pub crawl from DCU to the city centre is now reduced to 10 after a brace of bars on the route – the Red Windmill and the Botanic House – failed to reopen after Christmas.

The capital’s publicans are now begging for business. “Dublin Does Fridays,” runs the promotional slogan on their latest campaign, with more than a touch of desperation in its call for Dubliners to “prove we’re the most sociable city in the world”. Cut-price promotions and other enticements are the norm, and pub quizzes and comedy nights multiply to pad out the week.

Many of the remaining pubs are shut for half the week.

Chains such as Thomas Read and Capital Bars have been hit hard. Though some of their venues are still trading or have been sold, Capital Bars had a receiver appointed in 2009, and Thomas Read went into voluntary liquidation the same year.

“The biggest publicans in the country today are the receivers,” comments barrister and licensing law expert Constance Cassidy.

VARIOUS REASONS have been put forward for the collapse of the sector. For much of the past decade, publicans griped about the smoking ban and changes to drink-driving laws. Yet these changes took place some time ago – the smoking ban was introduced in 2004 and the first changes to drink-driving laws date back to the introduction of random breath testing in 2003.

Others say something wider is happening – a radical change in the way we live and, in particular, how we spend our leisure time. “There seems to be a fundamental lifestyle change going on here,” says Mary Lambkin, professor of marketing at the UCD Quinn school of business and the author of several studies on the drinks industry. “As people got richer and more sophisticated they weren’t prepared to sit in a dirty pub any more. Young people in particular wanted newer, brighter, more modern places to meet in.”

“It’s easy to blame the smoking ban or drink-driving laws, but they’re not the problem,” says Conor Kenny of Conor Kenny Associates, consultants to the pub and hotel trade. “The greatest tragedy about pubs is that they have become irrelevant to a generation.”

Lambkin likens the situation to a shopper returning to the drabness of a local haberdashery after visiting the glitz of a new mall. “Consumers are now well travelled and well educated, and they’re not going to spend their lives watching an auld fella in a cloth cap holding up the bar in a dingy local.”

While recognising the importance of pubs for tourism as well as the existence of good bars, she is unrelenting in her critique. “There are still nondescript pubs with nothing special to recommend them. Many, with their dark, dingy interiors and grubby counters, look like they haven’t been done up since 1954. These places are not going to survive the recession and they probably don’t deserve to survive.”

Publicans see the changes as much cultural as economic. “People were cash-rich and time-poor; now they’re cash-poor and still time-poor,” says Padraig Cribben, chief executive of the Vintners’ Federation of Ireland, which represents 4,500 country publicans.

He says it’s not worth some of his members’ time to open off-peak. “It has gone part-time, a bit like farming 20 years ago. Some pubs are staying closed until eight in the evening, or until Wednesday comes around.”

Geraldine Lynch, a second-generation publican who runs the Cuckoo’s Nest in Tallaght, has seen weekday bar trade fall by two-thirds as a result of the recession and other factors. But at least this was predictable and could be handled through tighter management.

Then something alarming started happening; the weekend started shrinking. “In my day, the weekend started on a Thursday evening, but the recession saw that off,” she says. “Then Friday started to go. People stopped coming in after work, or they’d come in for one and disappear.” It was a case of TGIF, RIP.

Lynch sees customers with ever-busier lives, for whom Saturday is increasingly their single treat of the week. Saturday morning might be allocated to family activities or a run, so Friday is now a stay-at-home night.

EARLIER THIS MONTH , a receiver took control of Colman Byrne’s pub in Ballaghaderreen, Co Roscommon, ending Byrne’s six-year struggle to make the business pay. Byrne built the Lir Cafe Bar on the site of his family’s former pub in 2006, well after the smoking ban and drink-driving laws were implemented.

Business ticked along for a few years before going into a tailspin for a number of reasons. The recession and emigration were factors, but there were also objections to late-night licences from neighbours, killing the crucial Saturday night trade.

But along with the economic factors, Byrne spotted the same cultural shift remarked upon by others. “That element of Irish character – sociability – is slowly dying out. People are not doing that same social thing that they used to.”

In place of regulars communing at the bar about local matters, Byrne says his customers were more likely to be “young people who got hammered at home on cheap vodka and beer”. Some who did make it to the pub would arrive with naggins of spirits taped to their thighs.

Immigration has also had an impact on patterns of alcohol consumption, says Lambkin. “The immigrant community has not embraced Irish pub culture as much as a socialising at home tendency, including a preference for different alcohol products.” She points out that sales of vodka, for example, have risen significantly.

Conor Kenny also queries our self-image as sociable and company-loving. “The generation from 26 down is completely different from what went before.”

The result, he says, is a generation with little appetite for a quiet evening spent sitting in the one place in a quiet pub. They work hard, drink hard and go out at a time when their parents might have been returning home to their beds, according to Kenny.

As a result, the pubs weathering the recession best include late-night venues. In Dublin, Copper Face Jacks nightclub made a profit of €7.5 million last year; the Bailey reopened last October after spending €200,000 on a revamp; and the Pod complex nearby is set to reopen as another nightclub.

Kenny has followed the ups and downs of the trade for several decades, having previously worked for the Irish Pub Company, which was largely responsible for selling an ersatz version of the Irish pub around the world. In his work as a consultant, he delivers home truths that sometimes run counter to received wisdom.

People often think of alcohol as a social drug, but as he points out: “You don’t have to be with people to drink.” Home drinking is as likely to be solitary as much as sociable, says Kenny.

This is the other big change affecting the pub sector. The consumption of alcohol has dropped by about one-fifth in a decade, but it still plays a central part in Irish life. The problem for publicans is that more and more drink is being consumed at home, and not in licensed premises. According to research by DCU economist Tony Foley for the Drinks Industry Group Ireland, a decade ago, up to 80 per cent of drink was sold in the on-trade (pubs and other venues); today, it accounts for less than half of all sales.

Vintners say the abolition of the groceries order in 2006 triggered this change. Freed from the ban on below-cost invoicing, supermarkets turned into drink warehouses, using alcohol as a loss-leader to tempt shoppers through the door. “There was an explosion in availability and a collapse in price,” says Donall O’Keefe, chief executive of the Licensed Vintners’ Association, which represents Dublin publicans.

Constance Cassidy, who has specialised in licensing law for more than 20 years, says: “In the beginning, it was all about pubs; now, my business is mostly about off-licences.”

Irish licensing law is a complex beast but one fundamental rule applies; you have to extinguish an existing licence before you can create a new one. This means that if a convenience store owner in central Dublin wants to sell beer, they have to get hold of an existing licence, mostly likely that of a dying rural pub.

UNLIKE TAXI licences, the market for pub licences hasn’t completely collapsed; a licence still costs €65,000-85,000, because it can be converted into an off-licence. This cost acts as a significant barrier to entry and is another reason why so few new pubs are opening.

The job of a publican has changed greatly from the days when someone could be warming a seat in the Dáil backbenches as well as holding court behind the bar counter. The vast majority of pubs are still family-run, one-bar operations, but the introduction of longer licensing hours forced many owners to employ more staff rather than keeping it in the family.

“I don’t work as hard as Mum and Dad did when they opened this place after getting married,” says Geraldine Lynch, whose parents raised six children in the rooms above the Cuckoo’s Nest.

The recession has seen many pubs cut back their opening hours and reduce staff. “As business has contracted, we’re more hands-on again. We’re constantly minding costs, and the family is picking up the slack,” says Lynch.

So while the pub was once a well-defined institution, with a central place in the community, today its purpose has been lost. Kenny says the challenge for publicans is to make themselves relevant again. “It’s all about reinvention, about looking after the basics. Pubs have become poor at creating a market, about emphasising points of difference. During the Celtic Tiger, money was easy, and they forgot how to go out and sell to their customers.”

“Blaming the Government won’t do. Governments don’t run pubs; publicans do,” he adds. “Price isn’t a factor. It was always dearer to buy drink in a pub. People will go there if it’s relevant to them.”

Lambkin foresees further closures and a wave of consolidation as an economic version of “survival of the fittest” plays itself out. “Every town has well-known pubs that stand out. It’s still a viable business for the good ones and they will survive.”

They're having a laugh! The cheek of the over priced ass hats giving out that people are drinking at home more is unbelievable!

If you can't afford to have a few pints, and factor in all the other over priced crap in Ireland of course you are going to head to the off license...

And even if you can afford to drink in a pub all the time it doen't mean your friends can..

Paying nearly a fiver for a pint is ludicrous and unsustainable no advertisement or gimmick is going to change that.. The only way they will get people back to the pubs is to lower the price of drink!

jay-me

For the tl;dr's Boo Hoo us poor publicans have to shut up shop because people are drinking at home more...

And Enda says shur its how you sell to them nothing to do with the price.. Shur aren't they all loaded!

Vahevala

I haven't been to a pub in yonks.. I can't afford to. If you can afford to get a few cans in the supermarket at a fraction of the price, that is what I will continue to do.

Much more comfortable too

guitarzero

Could this be seen a potentially a good thing? Look at the amount of **** alcohol causes in peoples lives. Yes, the warmth, the cosiness, etc but essentially it distributes alcohol which is a cause of so much crap in peoples lives. I personally couldnt give a sh*t, lets see if this trend continues and perhaps something positive might come of it.

later12

“I don’t work as hard as Mum and Dad did when they opened this place after getting married,” says Geraldine Lynch, whose parents raised six children in the rooms above the Cuckoo’s Nest.

Children have been raised in rooms above TCN:eek:

I knew FlirTar would end in this sort of thing.

StupidLikeAFox

They have to innovate and adapt if they wanna get people in the door. At the moment they are on the defensive and crying out for help but in the words of Bulmers, they have to "embrace the change"

Adolf Hipster

Bring the prices down and I'll start going back to the pubs.

As for now, it's cheap cans in the offy and having the craic at home with the lads.

Davidius

Just as well I suppose. It's probably not a good thing that one of the biggest tourist attractions is a place where people hang out and do drugs.

Atomicjuicer

Always hated pubs.

Good riddance!

man.about.town

love irelands pub culture, ill be a die hard pub drinker till i die... sitting at home having cans just does not cut it for me

TwoShedsJackson

Cannot believe they managed to get through that article without referring directly to the main problem - the prices in pubs as opposed to drinking at home, and it's attendant problem, the unwillingness of publicans to lower prices to compete.

They act like they're some sort of special group that have a right to keep their prices twice that of the competitor yet still expect the business.

later12

Indeed. In fact, this part screams wtf

“Blaming the Government won’t do. Governments don’t run pubs; publicans do,” he adds. “Price isn’t a factor. It was always dearer to buy drink in a pub. People will go there if it’s relevant to them.”

What he seems to be forgetting is that most people's economic circumstances have changed dramatically. There was a time that people could broadly tolerate expensive alcohol prices in pubs relative to off licenses, but that is changing. How on Earth anyone could come out with the statement that "price isn't a factor" and call himself a pub consultant is beyond me.

Seomra Mushie

“Price isn’t a factor. It was always dearer to buy drink in a pub. People will go there if it’s relevant to them.”

Oh, but that's where you're wrong, my dearie. For this person, price most definitely is a factor. I like pubs, can't afford to drink in them.

Seriously, all I was thinking when reading that article was: "reducethepricesreducethepricesreducethepricesreducethepricesreducetheprices"

Talk about publicans blaming everyone but themselves!

Zebra3

It's not just about prices.

Most pubs offer little choice just the same crap like Bud, Heino, Carlsberg. Stuff you wouldn't wash your windows with.

There's about six pubs within a ten minute walk of my house. One sells wheat beer, none sell any Irish craft beers. They don't get much of my business.

grizzly

It's just the tide going out, survival of the fittest. The good pubs are still packing them in.

Tomk1

What an odd article, which skims past the real reason. Nexted they'll be saying people don't go to pubs anymore because of television, all those great 'reallity shows' are keeping people out of the pub and the Friday falloff after work is because people wanna get home to watch the LLS.

I've been in a pub about 5 times in the last 5 years, one or two drinks. Anytime anyone asks if I'm going to a pub, I just say I can't afford it, to which they reply, they really can't afford it either.

I gave up pubs 10 years ago, because overpriced and overcrowded, paying good money to be treated like cattle in a stall, then kicked out due to archaic licenceing laws, that forbids you drinking past a certain time, unless you got some takeaways (which is now outlawed), might as well stay in the comfort of your own home, consuming a few bottles at a leisurely rate.

Last time I had a pint in the pub accross the road (so driving aurgument doesn't work here) I thought, I can have two perfect pints of Guinness at home for the price of this... not so great pint.

I would love to head over to the pub met a few neighbours, even for a coffee or a glass of coke on a sunny day, but the prices are a complete rip-off.

Another problem for pubs, are too many laws, which are killing them off, no under 18's in the local where everyone knows everyone else, parents can't bring they're children into a pub even if they could afford it. Last orders = giving 10 mins to sink two pints, then thanks for your money get out, unless your a regular and can sip on those pints maybe one more behind locked doors.

Rather than giving the pub-market a bit a freedom, we'll see yet more laws/taxs, these to try to get people into the pub, like the one that closed off licences at 10pm so if you want a drink, you're forced to go to a pub.

Nexted, off licences will be in trouble, due to people growing apples to make homebrew, to which the solution could only be a tax on growing fruit n' veg.

[strike]We live in a free-market[/strike]

Rabidlamb

In fairness to publicans they only control part of the price.
Diageo are to blame as anyone here, kept increasing their prices during the start of the downturn & only frozen prices for the past few years.
€3 pint will bring many back.

Gary4279

The only local that does an busisness has 3.40 pint all night every night and 5 euro for a 500ml bottle of wheat/craft beer. Free sandwiches Launched around at every table, although they do be going in sixty seconds and has free pool and darts ect. Thats a pub. My arse am I paying 5.50 for a pint of piss to be treated like a sheep.

Ghandee

If that lot want me back in a pub, they can start charging me a reasonable and fair price for a drink.
€2.90-€3.10 max for a pint, and just cut out the shameless and disgusting practice of charging over five euro for a pint of coke ffs!

Stop being greedy hoors and I'll come back.

Not until.

stovelid

It's another business in Ireland that runs along the curious logic of sectors like taxis. In normal businesses, you react to falling custom by changing your business and adapting; in this country, you go run whinging to your TD and your friends in the media to shore up a monopoly.

Not once in that propaganda piece does it address the price of drink in pubs and how it compares to off-sales.

HalloweenJack

Reading that article made my blood boil.

Not once did they mention anything about prices, yet several times, they mentioned that the recession had affected business. People have less money, they are aware of that, so why don't you drop the prices?

The article also points out that the consumption of alcohol in Ireland has GONE DOWN 20% in the last decade yet the vintners are making the younger generation of drinkers out to be some sort of anti-social alcoholics, which isn't the case. Loads of people nowadays go pre-drinking in a freind's gaff beforehand to save money, what's anti-social about that? If anything, the vintners could learn from them as these people are learning to adapt and get more value for their money in this climate.

The people in that article were incredibly insulting to the punters out there. They're all lovey-dovey when you get sloshed in their place but if, God forbid, you want to save a bit of money, they won't think twice to insult you in one of the country's biggest papers.

The thing about people not wanting to go into dingy bars is also a load of nonsense. I live in the Czech Republic and bars that look far worse than ones I've been in back home are doing well so it's nothing to do with the atmosphere.

Also, there was another point where one of the people interviewed was saying that people were only coming in for one or two then heading off, when they used to stay longer. WTF? To me, they are actually trying to encourage people to drink more!

Finally, the person who wrote this article is pathetic. He didn't press the price issue enough. Even the dogs in the street know that's the real problem with pubs but he doesn't even bother mentioning it. He's all for researching facts like the cost of licenses and the fall in trade but skips over any comparative research on the price of drinks. I'd be fairly certain he has some sort of interest in this area, why else would he write such a pro-vintner article.

I cannot believe the arrogance of the gob****es in that article. I'm also very disappointed that a reputable paper would print such manipulated****e.

mikemac1

Cafe bars was a good idea and the publican lobby got it shut down, McDowell left looking like a failure after he pushed for it.

And some of them could have expanded into this but instead they only saw it as a threat

A shame

“The immigrant community has not embraced Irish pub culture as much as a socialising at home tendency

Just this morning I was reading a Daily Mail article about resevoirs in the south of England running low and the most popular comments were about immigration. Always about the immigrants in that paper. Terrible paper, great website.

This article worked it in too, the quote might be true but it's distracting as the real issue is price and they don't talk about price at all. Immigration takes people off the main point

Over five euro for a rock shandy? fook off

ART6

Sure price is an issue, but as far as I am concerned it is not the only one. In the village where I live the nearest pub is a couple of miles away, and wife and I used to meet up there with friends once or twice a week. We might enjoy a meal there, and maybe a game of cards with others from the village, or a game of darts. I would limit myself to a couple of pints as I would be driving home, along a country road that was always deserted in late evenings.

Then St. Michail, following in the footsteps of St. Patrick, kicked the smokers out of the bar and into a three-walled garden shed outside, where the winds from the estuary in winter created serious anatomical issues for brass monkeys. The women, all non-smokers, would stay inside while the men tried to indulge their habit with fingers that were too cold to hold a fag properly. So the bar became female territory and the shed, male. No longer a social meeting point. Now we have new drink driving laws that make it possible to exceed the limit by simply looking at a glass of stout. Driving down to the pub is no longer an option, and neither is walking -- it's too far and too hilly for us older folks. Anyway, the pub closed last year.

So now it's carry outs from Tesco and a few drinks at home, where the men can smoke by the warm fire and the women can enjoy a glass or three of vodka each. Unfortunately that is about the be classed by the political missionaries as "binge drinking" and will be priced out of our reach. Ireland is being turned into a closed order monastery but, no doubt, our entry into Heaven will now be guaranteed by the government.

Zebra3

Rabidlamb wrote: »

In fairness to publicans they only control part of the price.
Diageo are to blame as anyone here, kept increasing their prices during the start of the downturn & only frozen prices for the past few years.
€3 pint will bring many back.

And pubs that don't deal with Diageo are doing all right.

The Scientician

HalloweenJack wrote: »

The thing about people not wanting to go into dingy bars is also a load of nonsense.

I agree. Any bar that looks like it has decor from 1953 would do a roaring trade. I love old looking pub interiors.

Several bars I know of in Dublin are still pretty busy regularly because they're either good value or they offer something other pubs don't. I won't name names but there are several between South William St. and Dame St. that have a great atmosphere, nice staff, and a good, interesting crowd. I do notice though that there doesn't seem to be as many younger people in bars around town as there would have been when I was say under 25.

hmmm

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's not just about prices.

Most pubs offer little choice just the same crap like Bud, Heino, Carlsberg. Stuff you wouldn't wash your windows with.

I stopped going as frequently because of prices, nowadays its because I'm more travelled and no longer want to drink Bud and Co. A Leffe or Chimay or two available in a fridge and I'd be back.

cloud493

Last time I was in a pub, I paid 5.10 for a J20. My friends who were drinking alcohol, paid 5.70 a pint. So pubs can **** off.

Freddie59

I had to go to a do in a Dublin City Centre Hotel recently. Bottle of Corrs €6.52.
Bacardi €5.05. €Mixer €3.70.:eek: Pint €6.50.

While the Westbury is not a pub, it's easy to see why people vote with their feet. 20 Corrs around €15 in Tesco. Litre of bacardi on special in Tesco €20.

And while some pubs do the whole "three for a tenner" gig it's still scandalous money to pay. No thanks.

AngryBollix

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's not just about prices.

Most pubs offer little choice just the same crap like Bud, Heino, Carlsberg. Stuff you wouldn't wash your windows with.

There's about six pubs within a ten minute walk of my house. One sells wheat beer, none sell any Irish craft beers. They don't get much of my business.

Its all about the guinness

mikemac1

AngryBollix wrote: »

Its all about the guinness

Murphys down South boi

AngryBollix

The Scientician wrote: »

I agree. Any bar that looks like it has decor from 1953 would do a roaring trade. I love old looking pub interiors.

Several bars I know of in Dublin are still pretty busy regularly because they're either good value or they offer something other pubs don't. I won't name names but there are several between South William St. and Dame St. that have a great atmosphere, nice staff, and a good, interesting crowd. I do notice though that there doesn't seem to be as many younger people in bars around town as there would have been when I was say under 25.

Go on Grogans.

The stags head perhaps

Auvers

Tomk1 wrote: »

Another problem for pubs, are too many laws, which are killing them off, no under 18's in the local where everyone knows everyone else, parents can't bring they're children into a pub even if they could afford it.

I agree with most of your post except with children in pubs, a pub is no place for a child

Barna77

As said above, not mentioning the price is just insulting. Just look at the promo nights when bars or pubs are packed. I was out last Thursday night (cheaper drinks) and I haven't seen the pub that busy in ages.

Come Tuesday and you'll see hordes of people walking up Grafton St and you know they are heading to Harcourt St....

hate that place ....

AngryBollix

Barna77 wrote: »

As said above, not mentioning the price is just insulting. Just look at the promo nights when bars or pubs are packed. I was out last Thursday night (cheaper drinks) and I haven't seen the pub that busy in ages.

Come Tuesday and you'll see hordes of people walking up Grafton St and you know they are heading to Harcourt St....

hate that place ....

Plentyof easy fanny though

Paparazzo

"Price isn't a factor" lol!
People are finally copping on that going to the pub thursday, friday and saturday night and spending the guts of €200 isn't the best way to spend your pay cheque

they can fcuk right off with their stupid propaganda pieces tbh

if "price isnt a factor" why have you been lobbying the govt to raise supermarket prices?
lying fcukers

Richard Hillman

2 bowling alleys close to me charge 10 quid in and BYOB. Its a great night out for less than €20. Apart from Spanish football what does the pub offer that's superior to that?

Fluorescence

Plenty of bars do €3 pint deals, and you never see those ones empty . Dying trade definitely has nothing to do with price [/sarcasm]

Even if you're not drinking alcohol pubs can still be expensive - over €3 frequently for a mineral drink. That's just robbery.

thomasj

AngryBollix wrote: »

The Scientician wrote: »

I agree. Any bar that looks like it has decor from 1953 would do a roaring trade. I love old looking pub interiors.

Several bars I know of in Dublin are still pretty busy regularly because they're either good value or they offer something other pubs don't. I won't name names but there are several between South William St. and Dame St. that have a great atmosphere, nice staff, and a good, interesting crowd. I do notice though that there doesn't seem to be as many younger people in bars around town as there would have been when I was say under 25.

The stags head perhaps

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Was jammers last night!

Dyr

HalloweenJack wrote: »

The thing about people not wanting to go into dingy bars is also a load of nonsense. I live in the Czech Republic and bars that look far worse than ones I've been in back home are doing well so it's nothing to do with the atmosphere.

Yer wan who gave that quote actually sounds like some hilarious send up of the wanna be big shot modernist in ballgyobackwards. Funny how most of the closed dublin bars that are named in that article are all trendy watering holes. The little old man pub abides still

flutered

Vahevala wrote: »

I haven't been to a pub in yonks.. I can't afford to. If you can afford to get a few cans in the supermarket at a fraction of the price, as is happening around here, meeting the publican coming out against you with a full trolly for resale, have they no respect for the intelligence of the punters, this schit is making nothing of us.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I don't frequent them as much as I once did which is a shame. There's nothing quite like having a stirring intellectual debate among friends at Mulligans or hearing Paddy Kavanagh stories from some aul drayhorse in McDaids, while all the while nursing pints of smooth black porter.

Ah yes the Dublin pub is dead and gone, Its with O'Leary in the grave.:pac:

panda100

guitarzero wrote: »

Could this be seen a potentially a good thing? Look at the amount of **** alcohol causes in peoples lives. Yes, the warmth, the cosiness, etc but essentially it distributes alcohol which is a cause of so much crap in peoples lives. I personally couldnt give a sh*t, lets see if this trend continues and perhaps something positive might come of it.

Alcohol abuse has nothing to do with Irish pubs. If you abuse alcohol to the extent that it causes a lot of **** in your life, then you obviously have underlying mental health issues. Pubs can be a positive focus for community life, especially in rural Ireland. You don't have to go to the pub to drink alcohol.Most places do meals,lunches etc as well.

ART6 wrote: »

Then St. Michail, following in the footsteps of St. Patrick, kicked the smokers out of the bar and into a three-walled garden shed outside, where the winds from the estuary in winter created serious anatomical issues for brass monkeys. The women, all non-smokers, would stay inside while the men tried to indulge their habit with fingers that were too cold to hold a fag properly. So the bar became female territory and the shed, male. No longer a social meeting point.

Smoking ban was the best thing to ever happen to Irish pubs! I realy hated the stink of pubs before , and would never go into them during the day as I would be reeking for the rest of the day. I often go into my local now for a bit of lunch during the day, and sometimes a nice glass of wine and a read of the paper in the evening. Would never have done that before with people smoking in me face.

I agree that its prices thats keeping people away. Cant say Im sad to see the likes of the Odeon,Pod and the likes go. Pretentious,overpriced placs that symbolised everything that was wrong with how business was done during the boom. Its the smaller,family run pubs that Im sad to see go.

flutered

a few pubs around here have trhee euro a drink on sunday until eight then all day monday, this has backfired because the guy that comes in after eight is saying he is entitled to the same price as the guy that was there all day, so the sunday one has failed, now it seems that the monday gig is not so well supported.

Seomra Mushie

The article is curiously foot-stampy.

"Wah, wah, people are drinking less, it's terrible, Joe, it's terrible, won't somebody please think of the children!"

Very strange, the more I think about it.

Casillas

Ive cut way back on my going out. Having a few pints with friends isnt worth being 50quid down the next day. Now we meet up for coffee, food, bowling, day trips etc. To be honest its a lot more fun and its healthier. Paying a fiver a pint is an utter joke, a lot more pubs will close.

Tom Dunne

I live in a Muslim country. A pint of Heineken is 4.80 Euro equivalent, as is a pint of Stella, Carlsberg, Guinness and on.

Think about that for a minute - drink is one of the few things I pay tax on, plus I am paying a premium because of the distance the booze has to travel.

And still, the price I pay is comparable (or cheaper than, in some cases) a Dublin pub.

To me, that says a lot about prices in Irish pubs.

murpho999

ART6 wrote: »

Sure price is an issue, but as far as I am concerned it is not the only one. In the village where I live the nearest pub is a couple of miles away, and wife and I used to meet up there with friends once or twice a week. We might enjoy a meal there, and maybe a game of cards with others from the village, or a game of darts. I would limit myself to a couple of pints as I would be driving home, along a country road that was always deserted in late evenings.

Then St. Michail, following in the footsteps of St. Patrick, kicked the smokers out of the bar and into a three-walled garden shed outside, where the winds from the estuary in winter created serious anatomical issues for brass monkeys. The women, all non-smokers, would stay inside while the men tried to indulge their habit with fingers that were too cold to hold a fag properly. So the bar became female territory and the shed, male. No longer a social meeting point. Now we have new drink driving laws that make it possible to exceed the limit by simply looking at a glass of stout. Driving down to the pub is no longer an option, and neither is walking -- it's too far and too hilly for us older folks. Anyway, the pub closed last year.

So now it's carry outs from Tesco and a few drinks at home, where the men can smoke by the warm fire and the women can enjoy a glass or three of vodka each. Unfortunately that is about the be classed by the political missionaries as "binge drinking" and will be priced out of our reach. Ireland is being turned into a closed order monastery but, no doubt, our entry into Heaven will now be guaranteed by the government.

Sorry but this is all a load of ****e.

In my opinion, the smoking ban has been good for pubs and people are totally used to them.
Certainly seems more appealing to me than sitting a smoke filled, smelly living room.
Also, there is absolutely no justification for Drink Driving. It's not political correctness gone mad.
People were being killed, and since introduction of Drink Driving laws, there has been a rapid fall in road deaths.

I don't believe you that you said you limit yourself to a couple of pints! That's when you think 'Sure I'm grand I'll have another one'.

Also, if drink wasn't the issue for you then why did you stop going to the pub?

mikemac1

ART6 wrote: »

In the village where I live the nearest pub is a couple of miles away, and wife and I used to meet up there with friends once or twice a week.

Now we have new drink driving laws that make it possible to exceed the limit by simply looking at a glass of stout. Driving down to the pub is no longer an option, and neither is walking -- it's too far and too hilly for us older folks. Anyway, the pub closed last year.

Could have been a business opportunity there for you to setup a hackney service

Biggins

Human by their nature are social creatures.
They will gather around any number of spots or places to chat within an atmosphere of warmth and friendliness.

In the last few years however that situation had become curtained to a great extent by economic factors.
Be we taxed to the hilt by every possible excuse a government cash come up with monthly or we are hit time after time by mortgage hikes and ever more expensive heating and food bills - the eventual outcome is the same - the money is not there to further facilitate social gathering around 'pubs' as such, as much as we generally like to previously.

Some of what the writer of the article strikes home but the bit...

...“Price isn’t a factor. It was always dearer to buy drink in a pub.

...is just pure cobblers to a good extent!

Price is always a factor to many!
Yes, drink has always been dearer in a bar but thats because people are paying for the staff, the heating, the surroundings in which they socialise, the usual standard reasons and the paying public understand this to a good extent.
...But just saying "price isn't a factor" is totally wrong I feel.

There comes a point where even the keenest of drinkers in every town, anywhere, will say or think to themselves "Hang on, I'm not paying that price! Thats taking the piss!"

---

The fact is that pubs and their owners have failed to adjust not only to the current economic factors but have previously failed to use their head and see what was possibly coming down the road and planned for it!
Like those (including the previous Irish governments) that placed too much of their economic 'eggs in too small a number of baskets' (property and land), the publicans of Ireland took, and took and took, and continued to do so with the thought that they could do this forever and not have to adjust their business strategy or their ability to resource further revenue streams further than the bar counter they were busy grabbing the money acoss at various good times!
They failed to see the future, they failed to prepare for it and now they are crying 'foul'.
Now like the bankers of this world - they yet again expect the public to bail them out too!
Well the public in their masses and irateness (at been still over-charged and bullied) have said overall a massive "Fcuk you!" to the Irish drinks industry and especially to the bullies of the VFI and related business drinks associations.

If the VFI (etc) wants people back into their pubs, instead of (via lobbying governments and probably a few under the counter envelopes too?) trying to stop supermarkets from selling drink and ending the sale of cheaper drink, they should lobby the hell out of governments so that people are given the ability to relax a bit and fell comfortable to be able to actually spent their money on drink - instead of having to fear the worst and keep what little job earned wage they have, for the next latest tax, levy or dreamt up charge a government can invent so that more bankers can get their blood money!

Pub owners - you want us back, lower your prices and/or adapt - and tell your drinks organisations to lay off the bullying! The more you irritate the people, the people will protest back with their feet into other directions and methods of socialising!
Tell them instead to apply pressure on those that are also taking what little money is left, out of peoples pockets daily and then when we feel we can relax a bit more - in more ways than one, we should feel more comfortable in returning to better run 'watering holes'.

Till the attitude and current methods of operation of the drinks industry changes, I expect the bar business to continue downward in a death spiral and frankly with their stubbornness and unwillingness to change, I say "fcuk them!" - they deserve what they get and they are reaping from what they have previously sowed!

Will they listen and learn to what the public is telling them? Will they hell!
...So "fcuk them" in the meanwhile till they do eventually (hopefully!) kop-on and learn!
Till then, they bring about their own continuing doom!

amacachi

**** them. I'm still yet to see evidence that supermarkets are selling below cost either so that excuse is out.