Ian Paisley is in hospital...

Chuck Stone

Although Paisley has never endorsed killing, and therefore was not as bad as the IRA, he spread paranoia and hatred - and then washed his hands when some of his audience became over-excited.

If anything that makes him worse than those who he riled up to act against innocent Catholics.

Paisley is a duplicitous charlatan who I doubt believed anything he preached about God.

Doc Ruby

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Doc, your concept of racism is as accurate as your concept of irony.

Oh I'm sorry, did you think I was speaking metaphorically?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Worst thing about it was the reference about joining the Republic. I don't think too many people are in any rush to join what is described all the time on here as a dump or a banana Republic.

You should be aware that most people in the Republic are in no hurry to have a shower of miserable racist quims join us either.

Stinicker

I think some of the stuff spouted off here about Paisley are downright disgusting and wrong. Here you have an old man in Hospital and very ill, I may not agree with some of his politics but I bear no ill will against him and wish him well. He invited Sinn Fein in out of the cold albeit with lots of encouragement and pressure from outsiders, he may have been a hardlining bible thumper once upon a time however I do believe like him or not that he made a positive contribution towards peace specifically in his last years in politics.

He met Ahern back a few years ago and ultimately at that meeting there was one evil traitorous corrupt coward and one man who stood up for what he beleived and what he believed was right. I never remember Paisley bankrupting NI and he was a good man to his community, the same cannot be said about Ahern.

If he does pass away I will remember him as ultimately an old timer but a man who came in from the cold and ultimately as a man who helped make peace after many years of division.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, did you think I was speaking metaphorically?


You should be aware that most people in the Republic are in no hurry to have a shower of miserable racist quims join us either.

Ok. You are entitled to that view. I just don't think too many people are in any rush about joining.

Doc Ruby

Stinicker wrote: »

I never remember Paisley bankrupting NI

He'd have to work pretty hard at that, the whole of NI is bankrolled by the UK.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ok. You are entitled to that view. I just don't think too many people are in any rush about joining.

You got that right. Have you any idea how many generations its going to take to iron out the ingrained racism that prick legitimised? Its a job o work laddie, and no mistake.

later12

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ok. You are entitled to that view. I just don't think too many people are in any rush about joining.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You should be aware that most people in the Republic are in no hurry to have a shower of miserable racist quims join us either.

Ahh. I am sure that Dr Paisley, even if he is breathing his last, can die happy in the knowledge that the fruit of his works survives.

marcsignal

NEVER !

SafeSurfer

I am afraid bigotry and racism will thrive on this island long after Ian Paisley.

Morlar

Stinicker wrote: »

... I may not agree with some of his politics but I bear no ill will against him and wish him well..

"They breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin."

""Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners"

3 guesses who said that.

Doc Ruby

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am afraid bigotry and racism will thrive on this island long after Ian Paisley.

Did he ever get round to writing his mein kampf by the way.

SafeSurfer

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Did he ever get round to writing his mein kampf by the way.

Did you?

SafeSurfer

Morlar wrote: »

"They breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin."

""Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners"

3 guesses who said that.

Walt Disney?

John Charles Mc Quaid?

Ian Paisley?

John Doe1

Doc Ruby wrote: »

But sure what, gigino, Lord Sot, Keith, bwatson and the rest of the crew show up in every one of these threads mumbling their usual sectarian drivel. The kind of people that helped make Norn iron the most racist place on earth, literally.

I've news for ye laddies, you'll be treated fair, but when you join the Republic you'll have to wrap that shite up fairly sharpish.

So deny free speech? There are 1 million unionists in the north, there is absolutely no way there will be a united ireland without there being an bloodbath

John Doe1

Morlar wrote: »

"They breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin."

""Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners"

3 guesses who said that.

They do

Thats classic paisley humour

Noreen1

gigino wrote: »

plus he believed in supporting the government / the law. He kept the 10 commandments. If everyone supported the law in N. I., it would have been a better place in the 70's and 80's.

Eh, you know the one that says "Love thy neighbour as thyself"?...:eek:

Ian Paisley seems to have been a massive contradiction, in many ways.
I personally knew someone,(RIP) Irish and Catholic, who wrote to him, explaining who they were, including religion, and asking his help in tracing PRSI payments made in the UK.
Not only did he trace the payments, but he also sent a very charming hand written note, expressing his good wishes....

Yet, this same man publicly went off on some of the most bigoted, hate-filled, sectarian rants ever to spew out of any mans mouth - ever!:eek:

There is no doubt, imo, that many of his rants led to violence and intimidation of Catholics by his supporters.:mad:
On the other hand - he did (eventually, and making a very good show of being dragged kicking and screaming) contribute significantly to the peace process.

Just as he deserves condemnation for his bigoted actions, he also deserves praise for his part in the peace process imo.

I may have despised the rants - but I would never wish anyone ill, or spew hatred at an old man.
I wish him a speedy recovery, or, failing that, I hope he makes his peace with God.

later12

I think that those are nice sentiments Noreen, but do you not agree that there is a moral hazard in allowing someone's last, hurried actions to mitigate against years of incitement to hatred, and wrongdoing?

I'm uncomfortable with the mindset that would see a man cause misery and destruction, and generally engage in reckless and cut-throat policies against his fellow man, and then make a sudden show of humanity before the curtain comes down on his life, just so that he might please his critics for the morning reviews.

Why don't we all just do what we want, regardless of who we damage, and then make up for it during our final years? How ethical is it to accept that sort of counterbalance?

It strikes me as quite slippery actually, almost like the ultimate cruelty to some of the victims of the troubles, that he has managed to generate (or dictate?) a more mixed reconsideration of his life and times.

What I would like to know, and maybe what we shall never know, is would he do it all again? Does he regret what he did? Was it really worthwhile, after all? I'm not quite sure that Paisley regrets the problems he caused for Northern Ireland. I'm not convinced that if he could go back he would be an agitator for peace... which is something that makes his 'Chuckle brother' sketch with Martin McGuinness all the more jaw dropping, in a way.

Noreen1

later10 wrote: »

I think that those are nice sentiments Noreen, but do you not agree that there is a moral hazard in allowing someone's last, hurried actions to mitigate against years of incitement to hatred, and wrongdoing?

I'm uncomfortable with the mindset that would see a man cause misery and destruction, and generally engage in reckless and cut-throat policies against his fellow man, and then make a sudden show of humanity before the curtain comes down on his life, just so that he might please his critics for the morning reviews.

Yes, and no. I think there is a duty to recognise both the rights and the wrongs of someones actions. I've tried to do that, without resorting to the even greater (imo) moral hazard of contributing to the type of hate-filled rhetoric that Paisley excelled at at one point.
I despise a great deal of what he said - I despise even more the reactions of his "supporters" when they formed sectarian mobs, to put it delicately.

The tragedy of what innocent people suffered makes my blood boil.
That is why I will not sink to his level. I'm a mature adult, therefore I must take responsibility for what I say - so, I choose not to personally go down the path of sectarian hatred, or to knowingly say anything that would cause others to do so. I try to be a better person than that.

later10 wrote: »

It strikes me as quite slippery actually, almost like the ultimate cruelty to some of the victims of the troubles, that he has managed to generate (or dictate?) a more mixed reconsideration of his life and times.

What I would like to know, and maybe what we shall never know, is would he do it all again? Does he regret what he did? Was it really worthwhile, after all? I'm not quite sure that Paisley regrets the problems he caused for Northern Ireland. I'm not convinced that if he could go back he would be an agitator for peace... which is something that makes his 'Chuckle brother' sketch with Martin McGuinness all the more jaw dropping, in a way.

It is slippery, and is certainly not intended to be cruel to the victims of the troubles. The victims have my sincere and very genuine sympathy.
I would never either deny, or condone, their suffering.
Having said that - I would never wish for anything I say to incite the kind of hatred that leads to violence against innocents, so I try to be as balanced as possible, while never forgetting, and always abhorring, the wrongs that were done.

I, too, would like to know whether he has regrets.
He seems to have spouted some truly awful anti-Catholic, anti-Irish bile in his public speeches - yet, apparently, treated at least some Catholics/Irish very differently, in private.
It's very hard to reconcile the two.

Personally, I hope he has regrets, and that he acknowledges those regrets publicly in his autobiography - not out of any vindictiveness, but in the hope that it might help heal some of the hurt that his speeches undoubtedly caused.
If he does express regret - I hope that it will be graciously accepted.
(Yeah, I know - I'm a dreamer!)

Dyr

we should name something after him..preferably a park

gurramok

Bambi wrote: »

we should name something after him..preferably a park

Perhaps a town in Scotland?:D

Seachmall

Bambi wrote: »

we should name something after him..preferably a park

We could always etch his name into a urinal.

Happyman42

Noreen1 wrote: »

Personally, I hope he has regrets, and that he acknowledges those regrets publicly in his autobiography - not out of any vindictiveness, but in the hope that it might help heal some of the hurt that his speeches undoubtedly caused.
If he does express regret - I hope that it will be graciously accepted.
(Yeah, I know - I'm a dreamer!)

You have to draw comparisons to racism here. If Paisley had been a Texan and had spent his life spewing hate about blacks his career would not have advanced beyond some hick town council.
His bogus religion is an ala Carte rant and a call to an archaic enslavment for his people. It is worse than the more fundamentalist born again bolloxology, people are still sarcrificing their lives to this nonsense all over the North and beyond. What he should have done if it was based in any moral code or had any integrity and to achieve any kind of respect is withdraw from politics and apologise abjectly for his behaviour yet he spouts on about others having the need to have road to Damacus moments.
He has done none of that so you have to assume he has no regrets for that. If KeithAFC and his ilk want any respect they have to disassociate themselves from this man's history. It is the sight of his supporters queing up to re-invent this bigot at the hour of his death that is particularily galling if not a chilling reminder that they have a long ways to go to become normal people.
Somebody posted this earlier, this is some of the chilling behaviour of this so called 'leader'........ behaviour he has not apologised for or has any discernible regrets for;
'And i witnessed the man himself leading masked men through the streets of a northern town during the infamous strikes were protestants took over the streets and closed down large parts of nothern ireland stopping milk / bread any other basic items being delivered to shops and were mr paisley a god fearing man of god then made personal deliveries in lorries of food / water parcels to protestant familys only while passing the same doors of their catholic neighbours our family included ..'

It is hugely important that he addresses that behaviour, there is a reason that 'apologies' are important .....an abject apology takes away the legitimacy of the behaviour and it lessens the chances of it happening again. Be careful in what you say because exalting this 'old' man, legitimises him.

Dyr

gurramok wrote: »

Perhaps a town in Scotland?:D

Rename Paisley to Dunroarin

problemchimp

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A hater of Catholics and an inciter of the degenerate loyalist death squads that targeted Catholics for nothing other than they happened to be baptised in that faith.

A man with a phony doctorate and the head of a religious sect he spawned himself. Paisley appealed to the most primal feelings of baseless fear and paranoia among the fools who listened to him. Continuously denouncing the Pope but acting as if he himself were infallible.

In the end he became involved in a peace process that was already a storm born wave about to break on a beach - he just surfed it to the sand to collect the trophy in the sun.

That sums Paisley up for me, well said!

swimming in a sea

I've always wondered what made him go into government with the IRA, was it all his choice or pressure from the young DUP members who fancied having all the trappings of being a government minister.

Time i suppose will tell if it was worth it,

swimming in a sea

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A hater of Catholics and an inciter of the degenerate loyalist death squads that targeted Catholics for nothing other than they happened to be baptised in that faith.

A man with a phony doctorate and the head of a religious sect he spawned himself. Paisley appealed to the most primal feelings of baseless fear and paranoia among the fools who listened to him. Continuously denouncing the Pope but acting as if he himself were infallible.

In the end he became involved in a peace process that was already a storm born wave about to break on a beach - he just surfed it to the sand to collect the trophy in the sun.

what makes his religious sect any more more ridiculous than the popes religious sect which has a 2000 year history of murder, rape and thievery. The Free Presbyterian church has a long way to go to match the Vatican.

Happyman42

swimming in a sea full of trout wrote: »

what makes his religious sect any more more ridiculous than the popes religious sect which has a 2000 year history of murder, rape and thievery. The Free Presbyterian church has a long way to go to match the Vatican.

Nothing, the pope isn't the subject of this thread as far as I can see. But just for the craic, can you point me to a catholic collared comparsion in Ireland? Who spouted hate for protestantism and is being sanctified and cleansed retrospectively? Free Presbyterianism has hate and fear enshrined in their bull**** doctrine.

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

You have to draw comparisons to racism here. If Paisley had been a Texan and had spent his life spewing hate about blacks his career would not have advanced beyond some hick town council.
His bogus religion is an ala Carte rant and a call to an archaic enslavment for his people. It is worse than the more fundamentalist born again bolloxology, people are still sarcrificing their lives to this nonsense all over the North and beyond. What he should have done if it was based in any moral code or had any integrity and to achieve any kind of respect is withdraw from politics and apologise abjectly for his behaviour yet he spouts on about others having the need to have road to Damacus moments.
He has done none of that so you have to assume he has no regrets for that. If KeithAFC and his ilk want any respect they have to disassociate themselves from this man's history. It is the sight of his supporters queing up to re-invent this bigot at the hour of his death that is particularily galling if not a chilling reminder that they have a long ways to go to become normal people.
Somebody posted this earlier, this is some of the chilling behaviour of this so called 'leader'........ behaviour he has not apologised for or has any discernible regrets for;
'And i witnessed the man himself leading masked men through the streets of a northern town during the infamous strikes were protestants took over the streets and closed down large parts of nothern ireland stopping milk / bread any other basic items being delivered to shops and were mr paisley a god fearing man of god then made personal deliveries in lorries of food / water parcels to protestant familys only while passing the same doors of their catholic neighbours our family included ..'

It is hugely important that he addresses that behaviour, there is a reason that 'apologies' are important .....an abject apology takes away the legitimacy of the behaviour and it lessens the chances of it happening again. Be careful in what you say because exalting this 'old' man, legitimises him.

I don't need to disassociate myself with any one. Like you have seen, there is plenty of people in this thread who wish Ian Paisley to recover from this.

Noreen1

Happyman42 wrote: »

You have to draw comparisons to racism here. If Paisley had been a Texan and had spent his life spewing hate about blacks his career would not have advanced beyond some hick town council.
His bogus religion is an ala Carte rant and a call to an archaic enslavment for his people. It is worse than the more fundamentalist born again bolloxology, people are still sarcrificing their lives to this nonsense all over the North and beyond. What he should have done if it was based in any moral code or had any integrity and to achieve any kind of respect is withdraw from politics and apologise abjectly for his behaviour yet he spouts on about others having the need to have road to Damacus moments. .

True. Though I wouldn't exactly use the term "bogus religion" - more like an absolute failure to live up to the teachings of the Religion he professed to believe in. It's that "Love your neighbour" bit again!

Happyman42 wrote: »

He has done none of that so you have to assume he has no regrets for that. If KeithAFC and his ilk want any respect they have to disassociate themselves from this man's history. It is the sight of his supporters queing up to re-invent this bigot at the hour of his death that is particularily galling if not a chilling reminder that they have a long ways to go to become normal people.
Somebody posted this earlier, this is some of the chilling behaviour of this so called 'leader'........ behaviour he has not apologised for or has any discernible regrets for;
'And i witnessed the man himself leading masked men through the streets of a northern town during the infamous strikes were protestants took over the streets and closed down large parts of nothern ireland stopping milk / bread any other basic items being delivered to shops and were mr paisley a god fearing man of god then made personal deliveries in lorries of food / water parcels to protestant familys only while passing the same doors of their catholic neighbours our family included ..'

It is hugely important that he addresses that behaviour, there is a reason that 'apologies' are important .....an abject apology takes away the legitimacy of the behaviour and it lessens the chances of it happening again. Be careful in what you say because exalting this 'old' man, legitimises him.

It is indeed hugely important that he addresses that behaviour.
However, it is equally important that both his supporters, and the victims of those "supporters" accept any apology that he might make - otherwise it will have been entirely pointless, and just become a cause of even more hatred.



Finally, where on earth did I exalt him? Much less make any attempt whatsoever to legitimise him? I acknowledged that in his later years he joined the peace process (albeit, apparently, kicking and screaming!).
That was a good thing. It doesn't cancel out the harm he did before that, but at least it meant he was stirring less sh*t! So, imo, it would be both inaccurate and morally wrong to deny the benefits that those actions helped bring about.

I spent my teenage years despising every word that came out of his mouth. Then I saw his "Never, Never, Never" rant on TV - and I honestly wondered if the man was anywhere near sane! After that, it was much easier for me to ignore his meanderings, and regard them as being beneath contempt tbh.

If any of that means that I've either legitimised, much less exalted him - then I'd honestly love to know How?

pragmatic1

Bambi wrote: »

we should name something after him..preferably a park

How about a sewage treatment plant in memory of the shyte that came out of his mouth?

later12

pragmatic1 wrote: »

How about a sewage treatment plant in memory of the shyte that came out of his mouth?

How about naming the septic tank legislation after him?

The Ian Paisley Memorial Levy?

I'm not quite sure this septic tank tax has reached its full hatred potential yet:)