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Ian Paisley is in hospital...

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    #242
    Irish Wolf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭Irish Wolf


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Perhaps not. He did make a valid contribution though. He does a certain amount of credit for this.

    Not in my eyes. He opposed Sunningdale/Anglo-Irish Agreement/GFA, and when the DUP were left out in the cold, he jumped on the bandwagon of those who did the real work, to glorify himself.


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    #243
    narddog
    Site Banned Posts: 165 ✭✭narddog


    They found a heart?


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    #244
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,146 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    in all honesty, i wish nothing for him except death


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    #245
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Irish Wolf wrote: »
    If he had his way there would have been no GFA.

    If he had his way Catholics would still be being burned out of their houses. A despicable man.


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    #246
    Explosions in the Sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭Explosions in the Sky


    People seem to think he stood for what he believed in, fair play to him he did. He had a strong view on his beliefs etc but we should not forget there is having a strong view and believing in something 100 % and having an actual hatred for something in which he did, big difference. For the majority of his career he wasn't a politician more so a trouble maker and loud mouth. All politics and crap aside best to him and his family who I'm sure are upset


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    #247
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,218 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    As a Northern nationalist I did have very strong feelings about him in the past, growing up in the 80s and 90s. Now I feel more, 'meh' about him.

    I think he was a world champion bigot once* and then something changed. Don't know if he realised that he would be forever remembered as such and decided to change for the better so that he would be remembered as a great man in NI history, especially if peace caught on. Or maybe he just got old and mellowed?

    * I did hear in the past that he did a lot of good work for his constituents over the years, irrespective of their religion.


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    #248
    memecece
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭memecece


    I understand that the man is old and pretty much on his death bed but you cannot forgive him for the death and destruction he brought about. Ian Paisley may not have pulled a trigger in the 40 years of bloodshed but he is responsible for every death and is seeped not only in Nationalist blood but Unionist too. Yes there was trouble before Paisley but from what the history books tell us the IRA had disbanded and in August 1969 Paisley started his reign of terror with Catholics being burned out of their homes on the Falls road due to Paisleys fear mongering. Has no one ever heard the saying "Out of the ashes of '69 arose the Provos"?

    His bigotry and hatred killed innocent men and women. He may have mellowed in recent years but his actions in the last few years cannot and shouldn't dismish his wrong doings. I do not wish him any harm but will I be saddened by his death? or remember him for the good he has done? I can't say that I will because the wrong he did vastly outweighs the good.


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    #249
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    narddog wrote: »
    They found a heart?

    I'm amazed too.


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    #250
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    i just wonder will all the hand wringing that's going on over the deaths and mayhem that Paisley's attitude caused, be revisited when an actual terrorist like McGuinness, or Adams are staring at deaths bony hand and scythe?

    Or will it be a case of looking through shamrock tinted lenses....


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    #251
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gatecrash wrote: »
    i just wonder will all the hand wringing that's going on over the deaths and mayhem that Paisley's attitude caused, be revisited when an actual terrorist like McGuinness, or Adams are staring at deaths bony hand and scythe?

    Or will it be a case of looking through shamrock tinted lenses....

    You realise that paisley was involved in founding 3 "terrorist" groups?


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    #252
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    gatecrash wrote: »
    actual terrorist

    Just because he used the blood of other men to fulfill his agenda doesn't mean he's not a terrorist.

    He intentionally inspired hate in a place where that had very real consequences and never attempted to reform when others, on both sides of the conflict, had.


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    #253
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    Amazing how some people seem to think RIP (Rev Ian Paisley) was involved in the Peace Process, in some way? The man opposed every initiative for peace over the past 40 years and only came in from the cold when an agreement was signed sealed and delivered.

    Trimble and Hume did most of the running for Peace, they were soon cast aside as the voters from both sides went to their extremes for solace/protection.


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    #254
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    Did i say his attitudes DIDN'T cause deaths and Mayhem?

    Read my post properly, i freely acknowledge that his actions and deeds and words and speeches and attitudes have caused mayhem.

    I suppose it's a bit of an unanswerable question until Messrs Adams and McGuinness are at deaths door.

    Will they be regarded as among the good and the great for turning their backs on violence, or will they be regarded with much the same level as Paisley is being regarded here?


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    #255
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gatecrash wrote: »
    Did i say his attitudes DIDN'T cause deaths and Mayhem?

    Read my post properly, i freely acknowledge that his actions and deeds and words and speeches and attitudes have caused mayhem.
    i just wonder will all the hand wringing that's going on over the deaths and mayhem that Paisley's attitude caused, be revisited when an actual terrorist like McGuinness, or Adams are staring at deaths bony hand and scythe?

    My bold. As Paisley was involved with 3 such organisations, your 'acknowledgement' fell a bit short. There is also a difference between those seeking political goals, and a man who discriminated against a minority because he 'rejects the Pope as the Antichrist'.

    Doubtless Gerry and Marty will receive short shrift from the usual suspects.


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    #256
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    gatecrash wrote: »
    Did i say his attitudes DIDN'T cause deaths and Mayhem?

    No, you implied he wasn't an actual terrorist.

    He may never have planted a bomb but he inspired others to. That's far more dangerous and definitely deserving of the title "Terrorist".


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    #257
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    Nodin wrote: »
    My bold. As Paisley was involved with 3 such organisations, your 'acknowledgement' fell a bit short. There is also a difference between those seeking political goals, and a man who discriminated against a minority because he 'rejects the Pope as the Antichrist'.

    Doubtless Gerry and Marty will receive short shrift from the usual suspects.

    I have to admit that i wouldn't have much time for any of the 3 of them to be honest.

    Even though i would have the teensiest bit more time for McGuinness. At least he HAS acknowledged his past.
    Adams, i have no time at all for.


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    #258
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Obviously a lot of young people here who don't know any other Paisley the that of his latter years. Paisley did more than any other man to start the troubles. His sheer bigotry (catholics/nationalists are 'spawns of satan') illustrated by his words (encouraging pogroms and violence) and actions (for example leading a crowd into the falls road to tear down a tricolor, that was a young Gerry Adams' political awakining).

    Before Paisley catholics would regularily drink in bars on the shankhill. Even work in those pubs. Paisley brought the sectarian,anti catholic feeling in the state front and centre.

    Paisley through his fearmongering did more than anyone else to breed bigotry and hate and build the foundations for the troubles. He was preaching his evil when the other protaganists in the troubles were in nappies.

    People bash the RCC for being backward, Paisley is worse, or have we all forgotton his 'save Ulster from sodomy' campaign?

    He is a hate figure, a hateful figure. He mellowed in recent years for two reasons. Number one, the DUP and everyone else were prepared to move on without him, he was holding everything back, dragging his feet. Number two, if he didnt become a 'peacemaker' he had zero chance of getting a statue like his hero Carson otherwise.

    Paisley was a powerful, charasmatic man with huge influence. He used his powers for bad, not good, hate, not peace.

    Am I glad he is dying? Not really, he has done so much damage already his death is like closing the stable door 60 years after the horse bolted. I wish he died 60 years ago and we were spared from his bigotry.


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    #259
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Seachmall wrote: »
    No, you implied he wasn't an actual terrorist.

    He may never have planted a bomb but he inspired others to. That's far more dangerous and definitely deserving of the title "Terrorist".

    Adams & McGuinness were far closer to being Terrorists than big Ian ever was, come to think of it Adams & McGuinness were in the PIRA, which is/was a prescribed Terrorist outfit, ergo "Adams & McGuinness were real Terrorists" if they were in the Provo's. Paisley on the other hand is/was a big mouthed Free Presbyterian ejit, who should have made his points, but without resorting to shouting all the bloody time.


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    #260
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    gatecrash wrote: »
    Did i say his attitudes DIDN'T cause deaths and Mayhem?

    Read my post properly, i freely acknowledge that his actions and deeds and words and speeches and attitudes have caused mayhem.

    I suppose it's a bit of an unanswerable question until Messrs Adams and McGuinness are at deaths door.

    Will they be regarded as among the good and the great for turning their backs on violence, or will they be regarded with much the same level as Paisley is being regarded here?
    In the Republic? Most likely seen in a negative light. The people in the Republic are more partitionist than Unionists. We all seen that in the Irish presidential election.


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    #261
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Paisley on the other hand is/was a big mouthed Free Presbyterian ejit, who should have made his points, but without resorting to shouting all the bloody time.

    He preached hatred and knowingly inspired murders.

    He wasn't some fool who occasionally let his mouth get the run of him, his words directly motivated people to murder others. He had influence over some of the most desperate people in the most dangerous areas in Europe and he used that power to spread his bigoted agenda.

    A terrorist he was.


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    #262
    the_djoker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 110 ✭✭the_djoker


    ULSTER SAYS NO !!!


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    #263
    yourpics
    Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    the_djoker wrote: »
    ULSTER SAYS NO !!!

    Surely this should be the six counties says no!


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    #264
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Seachmall wrote: »
    A terrorist he was.

    He most certainly was not.


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    #265
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    LordSutch wrote: »
    He most certainly was not.

    He was worse than the people he riled up and who then went out and targeted innocent Catholics; at least they were taking a chance of ending up in jail or being killed themselves.

    A coward, a bigot, an inciter of hatred and an all round scourge of the north.


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    #266
    problemchimp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭problemchimp


    LordSutch wrote: »
    He most certainly was not.
    He was in my opinion.


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    #267
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    LordSutch wrote: »
    He most certainly was not.
    We know that but some people need to convince themselves mate. Comparing Ian Paisley to bomb making experts is not a good comparison.


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    #268
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    We know that but some people need to convince themselves mate. Comparing Ian Paisley to bomb making experts is not a good comparison.

    He may never have gotten his hands dirty but they're certainly not clean.

    He may have been too cowardice to act on his convictions but he knew there were plenty of men who would do it for him.


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    #269
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Seachmall wrote: »
    He may never have gotten his hands dirty but they're certainly not clean.

    He may have been too cowardice to act on his convictions but he knew there were plenty of men who would do it for him.
    Ian Paisley had no say over the UVF or any operations. Everyone made decisions by themselves and they have to stick by them.


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    #270
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Ian Paisley had no say over the UVF or any operations.

    I never suggested otherwise.


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    #271
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Ian Paisley had no say over the UVF or any operations. Everyone made decisions by themselves and they have to stick by them.

    But he was happy enough to egg them on, telling them they were fighting a war against subhumans.


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