Would you sack Kidney, yay, or nay ?

RMD

What the IRFU need to do is grow a pair of balls and offer him an ultimatum, walk in a respectful manner or have his contract terminated. It's amazed me it's taken people this long to realise how piss poor he is, I've wanted him gone for the last 2 seasons.

We need a young coach who plays attacking rugby, none of this defensive shíte. He hasn't changed his game plan since 09, any Northern hemisphere team we play knows straight away what type of game they're up against and you can see how uncomfortable some of the players are with the game plan.

TomLamp

Show him the door. Irish rugby is going backwards.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Am I the only one who thinks today's game is a terrible reason to sack Kidney? Yes there were problems with the squad chosen to tour, but we have so far seen improvements in both our play and team selections. The scoreline didn't do the game justice. We fronted up well today, but every mistake we made was exploited by an excellent All Black team/performance - No team in the world would have been within touching distance Kiwi's today.

CatFromHue

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks today's game is a terrible reason to sack Kidney?

Yeah I do too.

At the end of the tour we can look back and judge it properly, it'll also be the end of the season we can do a proper review then.

There is still a long way to go before this tour ends.

.ak

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks today's game is a terrible reason to sack Kidney? Yes there were problems with the squad chosen to tour, but we have so far seen improvements in both our play and team selections. The scoreline didn't do the game justice. We fronted up well today, but every mistake we made was exploited by an excellent All Black team/performance - No team in the world would have been within touching distance Kiwi's today.

Captain, I'm gonna break this to you as gently as I can... but, you're delusional. I'm sorry, thems the breaks.


Are you telling me any of the following teams would've lost by 32 points today: France, Wales, Australia, South Africa, England? Not a chance. We are in the worst state Ireland have been since the game went professional, and since the IRB introduced the ranking system. How can you confuse that with 'improvements in both our play and team selections'? The team selection was completely forced by hand and the tactics on display today were some of the worst I've ever seen from an international setup.

Yes, the 'All Blacks' were on singing form today. But we were awful, truly awful. The worst 'top 8' side I've seen in a long time. Our defensive structure was beyond a joke - we defended in one channel; the midfield, and that wasn't even defended well. Our wings were constantly exposed because our gameplan was clearly to dominate the breakdown and try and recycle ball in the midfield, we had no game plan for them running at us on the wings, we were constantly caught dog-legged and our attack had absolutely no structure to it whatsoever. We bossed the breakdown, fantastic thing to do against a top tier team, and yet we couldn't do feck all with the ball.

Honestly, I know you get some grief on these forums Cpt. But I honestly think you have a good understanding of the game - but what I don't understand is how you can think we've made ANY progress under Kidney since 2009, nevermind this year.

.ak

CatFromHue wrote: »

Yeah I do too.

At the end of the tour we can look back and judge it properly, it'll also be the end of the season we can do a proper review then.

There is still a long way to go before this tour ends.

Well I suppose if the question is exactly phrases 'Is today a good reason to sack Kidney?' Well then no, it's not....



....2010 6N, 2010 AI, 2011 6N, 2011 RWC, 2012 6N are all better reasons to sack him.

Shelflife

Nothing good would come from sacking him now, but it should be done immediately after this ill thought out tour.

with a bit of luck we will avoid injuries but all that we will learn is how far off the pace we really are.

when you consider that the ABs were "ring rusty" then we are in for a torrid 2nd and 3rd tests.

profitius

We all said that picking Zebo and McFadden on the wings could turn out to be a disaster. It was confirmed today. You didn't need to be psychic to predict what would happen.

CatFromHue

.ak wrote: »

Well I suppose if the question is exactly phrases 'Is today a good reason to sack Kidney?' Well then no, it's not....



....2010 6N, 2010 AI, 2011 6N, 2011 RWC, 2012 6N are all better reasons to sack him.

Pretty much.

I personally would have given him the benefit of the doubt until the RWC but changed my mind during it and wasn't too impressed during the 6 Nations.

Bizarrely enough I was more excited about todays game then I have been for an Irish game in a long time.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Rather than veering off tangent on a rant, do you disagree that our performance today, and the team selected has been a step up from the 6N?

Cpt_Blackbeard

profitius wrote: »

We all said that picking Zebo and McFadden on the wings could turn out to be a disaster. It was confirmed today. You didn't need to be psychic to predict what would happen.

The Kiwi's singling out our wingers' defense as a huge weakness and exploiting it is one thing, our coaching staff (Kiss) being unable to near rectify it is another.

Shelflife

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Rather than veering off tangent on a rant, do you disagree that our performance today, and the team selected has been a step up from the 6N?

Being honest there was no performance today, we were totally outplayed, yes there were some areas where we competed well but the facts remain that we could easily have been beaten by another 2 scores.

Kidney still plays players out of position and it comes back to haunt us.

No forward planning, no clear strategy (NZ no place to experiment) then plays zebo and mcfadden on the wings .

There just seems to be no plan in place long term or short term

RMD

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks today's game is a terrible reason to sack Kidney? Yes there were problems with the squad chosen to tour, but we have so far seen improvements in both our play and team selections. The scoreline didn't do the game justice. We fronted up well today, but every mistake we made was exploited by an excellent All Black team/performance - No team in the world would have been within touching distance Kiwi's today.

It's not just todays game. It's repeatedly underachieving with the talent pool he has. Today wasn't some shock one off poor performance, Kidney has been piss poor in utilising the resources available to him and needs to go. He was good with Munster I have no problem admitting that but IMO he has been an utter failure with Ireland. He inherited EOS's overdue grandslam and has done nothing with the team since.

He's too old and conservative for modern rugby.

vkid

For the lack of something better to do, I am just reading some old threads from 2007 after the world cup, and calling for EOS's head. It is truly amazing how similar to the Kidney threads. Same hyperbole, same one eyed provincial views, same player bashing..

funny stuff in a way

Fishooks12

vkid wrote: »

For the lack of something better to do, I am just reading some old threads from 2007 after the world cup, and calling for EOS's head. It is truly amazing how similar to the Kidney threads. Same hyperbole, same one eyed provincial views, same player bashing..

funny stuff in a way

EOS deserved to go too. Problem is we got a ****e replacement

Tox56

vkid wrote: »

For the lack of something better to do, I am just reading some old threads from 2007 after the world cup, and calling for EOS's head. It is truly amazing how similar to the Kidney threads. Same hyperbole, same one eyed provincial views, same player bashing..

funny stuff in a way

You get people who will do that stuff at any given opportunity, but there are plenty of genuine, reasoned arguments from knowledgeable posters against Kidney.

RMD

The provincial horseshíte will always occur in an Irish Rugby related topic but the above poll indicating 71% in favour of sacking Kidney is a lot more than some provincial bias.

As said, there is plenty of good arguments here in favour of sacking Kidney and a majority desire to back it up.

vkid

Tox56 wrote: »

You get people who will do that stuff at any given opportunity, but there are plenty of genuine, reasoned arguments from knowledgeable posters against Kidney.

i'm not defending kidney..but it is uncanny how similar some of the arguments are.. Change a few names here and there and you're back in 2007.

"We need a new manager with new ideas to get the best out of this team."

"he has to go. We need a new coach who doesn't have favourites, has new ideas and doesn't pick a team that's more difficult to get out of then onto.
A few triple crowns and some wins against SH teams don't mask the fact that he's pissed away our most talented generation ever."

"O'Sullivan must go because he has squeezed every ounce of creativity and confidence out of a brilliant squad of players and the sooner he goes, the sooner the squad can get back to playing the sort of rugby that we know they are all capable of."

"Reddan was very good. If you think Stringer would have made any difference you're dreaming."

"No scrap the EOS gameplan and play like Cheika lets them play for Leinster. Its the only way we can score the tries needed."

"Subs are for injuries, right?"

Tox56

The complaints are extremely similar because the problems are extremely similar, or what are you implying, I'm not sure what side you're on

Almaviva

Tox56 wrote: »

The complaints are extremely similar because the problems are extremely similar

Indeed they are. But the IRFU agreed with the complaints and moved swiftly after a terrible world cup and sacked EOS in the middle of the six nations. The Kid is now 3 6 nations, a world cup, Autumn and Summer friendlies, without the slightest hint that he is taking the team anywhere. So why have they not acted this time. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Hagz

Can someone tell me whether the Kidney Clock is exact? It's painful to open up my homepage to 346 days. I dream of a 2013 6N where we have a coach who get's this side playing some expansive rugby, and rewards form. It feels like the coaching staff are just playing to grind out results, and failing miserably in doing so. It's like they genuinely live by the mission of 'one game at a time'. We should have a coach that is more ambitious, that want these players to play an expansive brand rugby and looks towards the future.

profitius

I was defending Kidney for 2 seasons. Actually I said last year I'll judge him on the world cup performance. A great opportunity was blown in the world cup and since then its been all downhill. What really annoyed me was him picking the same players and using the same tactics in this seasons 6 nations. Then he makes changes for the NZ game and makes some strange calls.

The man is clearly out of his depth since the ELV's came. He is still playing rugby that he knows best.

Theres also the Munster bias issue hanging over his head. I can understand non Munster fans questioning some of his selections. Zebo was outplayed by Dave Kearney and Gilroy and is far from the finished product yet Kidney starts him against the best team in the world. Kidney also said Zebos performance against the Barbarians was part of the reason for his selection. By reading most reports from that match it seems Gilroy was MOTM.

Fishooks12

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055514575

Halcyon days

irishbucsfan

Ah man I miss juvenals match threads

vkid

Tox56 wrote: »

The complaints are extremely similar because the problems are extremely similar, or what are you implying, I'm not sure what side you're on

I just dont know if the solution is as easy as sacking Kiddnme and getting a new coach. And as I said in the post above, I'm not defending Kidney... I just think there is a bigger picture to be looked at here.

We're pretty much where we were in 2007..golden generation, loads of potential, HC winners,world class, playing his favourites, x is crap, y should have got a go, disgraceful selections etc etc

Who do you replace Kidney with, right now to deliver the success people seem to think we should be getting.Joe Schmidt is not an option right now, he's contracted to Leinster is he not? Who are the options?

I do also think people have unrealistic expectations based on provincial success, the all blacks and the like are a completely different level, but most don't even want to hear that so whatever

Fishooks12

vkid wrote: »

I just dont know if the solution is as easy as sacking Kiddnme and getting a new coach. And as I said in the post above, I'm not defending Kidney... I just think there is a bigger picture to be looked at here.

We're pretty much where we were in 2007..golden generation, loads of potential, HC winners,world class, playing his favourites, x is crap, y should have got a go, disgraceful selections etc etc

Who do you replace Kidney with, right now to deliver the success people seem to think we should be getting.Joe Schmidt is not an option right now, he's contracted to Leinster is he not? Who are the options?

I do also think people have unrealistic expectations based on provincial success, the all blacks and the like are a completely different level, but most don't even want to hear that so whatever

Most people know that even if we had the best coach in the world we'd still struggle against the AB's. But we should be more competitive than we are right now under Kindey, who has failed to adapt to the ELV's and can't pick the right players

Just because we've had two bad coaches doesn't mean we're just not good enough

Tox56

The All Blacks ain't the issue, it's been the last 2/3 years and all the usual problems that we all know by now.

I get the point about the coach (anything would be an improvement really), but if Munster can get someone like Rob Penney, surely Ireland can unearth someone from somewhere. I'll admit to not knowing who Joe Schmidt was, but look how that turned out.

Hagz

vkid wrote: »

I do also think people have unrealistic expectations based on provincial success, the all blacks and the like are a completely different level, but most don't even want to hear that so whatever

I don't see what the All Blacks have to do with the argument of sacking Kidney. A change has been needed for a while now.

vkid

Fair enough if ye believe everything will be ok by getting a new coach, I'm not so sure..and especially if we just get someone as a reaction to getting rid of Kidney. Who is to say in 2017 we won't be back here with the same old complaints as now and in 2007. Its not just the last 2/3 years either. There is no point in a knee jerk reaction either..as much as the team isnt working under the current structure. Maybe there are other problems apart from Kidney?

Penney has done nothing yet really either...so as of now unproven.

Hagz

vkid wrote: »

Fair enough if ye believe everything will be ok by getting a new coach, I'm not so sure..and especially if we just get someone as a reaction to getting rid of Kidney. Who is to say in 2017 we won't be back here with the same old complaints as now and in 2007. Its not just the last 2/3 years either. There is no point in a knee jerk reaction either..as much as the team isnt working under the current structure. Maybe there are other problems apart from Kidney?

Penney has done nothing yet really either...so as of now unproven.

It's not a knee jerk reaction though, a lot of people have wanted the guy gone since before the world cup.

I agree with you that it goes deeper than Kidney and his coaching staff. But all people can do is criticize what they can see. To me, Kidney just reeks of a man who's set in his ways. He comes across as so backward in his thinking. I'd prefer someone more ruthless, innovative, and honest. People are saying Schmidt but I don't think he even wants it.