Would you sack Kidney, yay, or nay ?

flyswatter

I'd like to see him go.

Too inconsistent and is squandering the talents of some great players.

corny

I'm amazed 30% of the vote is in favour of retaining his services. I don't know what justifies the confidence but each to their own i suppose.

CIARAN_BOYLE

corny wrote: »

I'm amazed 30% of the vote is in favour of retaining his services. I don't know what justifies the confidence but each to their own i suppose.

this thread was started after the Wales match with the question would you sack Kindey now. It wasn't time to change management in the middle of a tournament so people voted no. Most of those people would vote to sack Kidney now if asked today.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

fitz wrote: »

The two are linked though Justin.
The few big results we've had in the last three years have been when the team played closest to the fast, aggressive, modern rugby that these players are capable of

It wasn't the poster's point in the first place and thats why I'm pointing that out.
Ireland have had some close called wins in some pretty ordinary performances where nobody gave two shinies how the team played.
Once the result happens, people tend not to look any further back. Thats how it goes in any sport. There have also been hard-fought performances unrewarded by result not going their way. Do the performances get lauded above all else? Nope.

Example of such games just this weekend? Would you hail the two provincial wins as classic great performances? From a purely rugby perspective, I wouldn't. Plenty wrong with yesterday for example. Discipline was poor. Kicking from hand and tactical generally woeful, cynicism at breakdown was just buttnuggetry. Why was it memorable so? A result against a fancied side in the penultimate stage of the tournament.

Leinster were playing one of the the best club teams in the world yesterday and still managed to pose more of an attacking threat than Ireland do against tier 2 nations like Italy. Scored a great try and could have had two more. Very unlike the games Ireland squeaked out against Australia etc. Especially impressive given the fact Clermont sacrifice the breakdown to give themselves more width in defense.

Cynicism at the breakdown is completely irrelevant to me. Discipline wasn't poor, at all. It's very hard to not concede penalties against a team with that intensity. I can think of two very silly penalties. It's a merit if anything. Kicking from hand wasn't woeful. There were two bad kicks, and a couple of excellent ones, like the one down into their corner in the second half. And one of those bad kicks won us a penalty.

I have to wonder which game you were watching tbh! That period of possession Leinster had following the change of half back was excellent. To do that against Clermont in France is simply superb. That was a top class performance. Only issue I'd have would be the set piece.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have to wonder which game you were watching tbh! That period of possession Leinster had following the change of half back was excellent. To do that against Clermont in France is simply superb. That was a top class performance. Only issue I'd have would be the set piece.

Just from a rugby perspective and no emotional aspect on board, it was a great effort. Not a great performance. Nice handling in first half but it was nuts and bolts in the second half. Breakdowns as well the set-pieces once in defending team's own third of the field were nightmares.

CatFromHue

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

this thread was started after the Wales match with the question would you sack Kindey now. It wasn't time to change management in the middle of a tournament so people voted no. Most of those people would vote to sack Kidney now if asked today.

My preference is to make decisions at the end of the tournament/seasons than in them. We're still not finished the international season but when we do we can have a proper review of how it's gone.

I would have defended Kidney up to the RWC but after the 6 Nations I think we could do with a change.

thebaz

kidney taking Ireland down under after the weekend, is bordering on the stupid

Schmnidt could lead Ireland in to becoming a serious international team

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have to wonder which game you were watching tbh! That period of possession Leinster had following the change of half back was excellent. To do that against Clermont in France is simply superb. That was a top class performance. Only issue I'd have would be the set piece.

Just from a rugby perspective and no emotional aspect on board, it was a great effort. Not a great performance. Nice handling in first half but it was nuts and bolts in the second half. Breakdowns as well the set-pieces once in defending team's own third of the field were nightmares.

Best attacking phases were in the second half. Scored our try in the second half. Had our best spell of attacking dominance in the second half as well.

sting60

JustinDee wrote: »

Not the point you were making. You were insisting that the "performance" was the issue. If they did win in New Zealand, would you still complain about the style of doing so?

If and when they get Mauled in NZ will this add fuel to an already raging furnace.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Best attacking phases were in the second half. Scored our try in the second half. Had our best spell of attacking dominance in the second half as well.

Best attacking gains were actually in first half where there were more offloads in contact and more line breaks.

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

Not the point you were making. You were insisting that the "performance" was the issue. If they did win in New Zealand, would you still complain about the style of doing so?

:rolleyes:

I didn't insist anything. It's also a little rich to be so condescending considering you didn't understand my point in the first place and are now misrepresenting it to suit yourself.

I don't care if we play ugly rugby as long as it is effective. We play some ugly rugby under Kidney but it isn't effective.

I think at this point that decent and consistent results are beyond Kidney so I could at least take some positives from a good performance.

Given a choice between beautiful and effective rugby or ugly and effective rugby which would you take?

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Best attacking phases were in the second half. Scored our try in the second half. Had our best spell of attacking dominance in the second half as well.

JustinDee wrote: »

Best attacking gains were actually in first half where there were more offloads in contact and more line breaks.

There were impressive spells in both halves imo; Leinster rode there luck at the end like all great teams in that position do. the hard bit is getting to that position.

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I didn't insist anything. It's also a little rich to be so condescending considering you didn't understand my point in the first place and are now misrepresenting it to suit yourself

I'm not being condescending or misrepresenting what you post. I'm replying to what I read.

Teferi wrote: »

I don't care if we play ugly rugby as long as it is effective. We play some ugly rugby under Kidney but it isn't effective.

I think at this point that decent and consistent results are beyond Kidney so I could at least take some positives from a good performance.

Given a choice between beautiful and effective rugby or ugly and effective rugby which would you take?

Anything that wins. I don't care. I want a winning team. If I want style I'll watch Olympic diving or Mark Occhilupo surf Burleigh Heads.

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

I'm not being condescending or misrepresenting what you post. I'm replying to what I read so relax with that, thanks.

I'm not sure you understand what condescending means because somehow you managed to be condescending again...

Edit: You edited out what I bolded above after I quoted it.

JustinDee wrote: »

I want a winning team.

I'm going to ignore the rest of that obtuse answer and simply point out that we are currently not a winning team and haven't been since 2009.

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand what condescending means because somehow you managed to be condescending again...

Edit: You edited out what I bolded above after I quoted it

That is not condescension. It is being a little annoyed at your post then editing because arguing a toss over it is not worth the fuss.

Teferi wrote: »

I'm going to ignore the rest of that obtuse answer and simply point out that we are currently not a winning team and haven't been since 2009.

Of course you will.

fitz

Justin, as I've said to you before, you're arguing the semantics and ignoring the main point.
We're not seeing good performances or results.
So the argument for results above appealing performance doesn't cut it.

I 100% believe that if we had a coach who knew how to get this group of players to perform to their strengths, and to their potential, that the results would follow.

It's simple. There's a difference between playing ugly rugby, and playing rugby that doesn't work. We're playing the latter in the vain attempt to secure results. If your views on the national side are in line with the consensus in the IRFU, then I despair tbh. It shows a staggering disconnect between perception and reality, and a complete lack of ambition in the use of the talent we have at our disposal. Frankly, that talent, and the fans, deserve more imo.

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

Of course you will.

Ah why bother, talking to you is like hitting your head against a wall.

Note however that you are being condescending yet again here.

Hopefully we can have another fruitful debate again.

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

Ah why bother, talking to you is like hitting your head against a wall.
Note however that you are being condescending yet again here.
Hopefully we can have another fruitful debate again.

That was sarcasm. Not condescension.

You're welcome. (that was just smugness )

TonyTonga

I really think he should go!

Not only for his tactics, but his his selections alone

How long did he persist with Buckley,Hayes,Horan,O'Callaghan,Leamy,O'Leary,O'Gara when everyone could see they were off the pace?

How long is he going to continue to persist with Connor Murray? Hes probably worse than O'Leary!

thebaz

Schmidt needs to be next Irish coach , the sooner the better - Kidney reign reminds me of the last days of Steve Stauntons charge of the football - Kidney like Stan is just way out of his depth -

TonyTonga

his interviews are similar too

irishbucsfan

Tony you did well to remember this thread from April, given you just joined. Fair play.



I'm looking forward to a new coaching staff. I'm dreading a potential poor hire though.

TonyTonga

type into search Kidney sack. There were a few threads actually which is pleasing. Obviously im not alone in feeling this way.

bilston

Kidney may well have taken us as far as he can but that's not based on today.

Some questions though have to be asked about today.

Murray over Reddan? This is a weak point for Kidney
McFadden over Trimble? Was this down to rotation? Trimble hasn't been setting the world alight but he's still a better winger than McFadden IMO, if you don't want to play Trimble then bring Gilroy or D.Kearney.


Subbing Fitzpatrick who had scrummaged well and held his own all day when we have a scrum on our 5 metre line?
Not taking Healy off much earlier when he looked fooked?

bossa_nova

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Tony you did well to remember this thread from April, given you just joined. Fair play.



I'm looking forward to a new coaching staff. I'm dreading a potential poor hire though.

I'm really worried about tbh, I said this in the other thread

This is one thing i'm worried about when looking for a new coach, i really doubt kidney will find a top job after Ireland, and the prospect on managing a team that left its two previous coaches in the dregs of rugby teams will turn alot of top coaches away

Worst that could happen is that we look for an irish coach thats not there to take

TonyTonga

Is there anyway Kidney would have the decency to walk away?

Maybe then we could see the form players being picked to tour/start instead of O'Gara,O'Callaghan,Murray,Zebo,POM

Madigan,Toner/McCarthy,Reddan,Gilroy,Henry/McLaughlin all deserved to tour/start over those players today.

kilns

Kidney should walk with honour, everything is stale, he is a dinosaur in rugby philosophy terms

IRFU should be turning their attentions to Ewen McKenzie

danthefan

kilns wrote: »

Kidney should walk with honour, everything is stale, he is a dinosaur in rugby philosophy terms

IRFU should be turning their attentions to Ewen McKenzie

What honour?

tolosenc

danthefan wrote: »

What honour?

The grand slam! And 2 Heineken Cups! And 3 As in his leaving cert!

RandolphEsq

tolosenc wrote: »

The grand slam! And 2 Heineken Cups! And 3 As in his leaving cert!

The time to walk has passed, he has pissed away all that and is an embarrassment.