Would you sack Kidney, yay, or nay ?

Almaviva

Forget the practicalities of contracts, what it would cost, whether the IRFU will or wont: if you could, would you sack him now ?

Superbus

Now? As in, this very evening? No.

After the 6N, maybe.


Rather knee jerk, but what'd you expect.

danthefan

He has to go.

Almaviva

Superbus wrote: »

Now? As in, this very evening? No.
After the 6N, maybe.
Rather knee jerk, but what'd you expect.

No time like the present.

But leave till the morning if you have to. As long as it before a team is selected for the French game would be good enough for me.

cgpg5

If we win the next 4 games, no. But if we lose to France (as expected) and are unconvincing in the rest (which could easily result in a loss to Twickenham) he should go, I feel. However unless we get the wooden spoon I can't see him being sacked.

The only reason I'm not a fan of him is because of his conservatism and his inabilty to reward form and give lads a chance rather than sticking with players based solely on reputation. However if we can get results I have no problem.

Chucky the tree

I'd love to see reasons why people think he should stay. I honestly can't think of anything positive he brings to the table.

Superbus

Well sacking your coach half way through a tournament would be like something England would do.

yeraulone

The provincial teams are doing so well at the moment. The Ireland team is not progressing at all.

Why?

cabrwab

This daja vu Wales beating us at home after a world cup, after a manager is rewarded with a new contract before a world cup!

Kicked out now no, base it on the tournament as a hole, I can see us being wooden spoon contenders very disappointing display with no changes or heart, it ha to be the coaching staff's fault!
But after the six nations I think it should be time alright.

cgpg5

yeraulone wrote: »

The provincial teams are doing so well at the moment. The Ireland team is not progressing at all.

Why?

Wales have one HC quarter finalist that qualified as a best runner up. We have 3. All 3 of our teams would prob beat all of the Welsh teams. Yet they outplayed us today and beat us in the last 3 encounters. Its very disappointing to see

S. Goodspeed

Grand slam gone, triple crown gone, championship to be gone by cob Saturday. Probably no point in changing things now, its too late.

I still can't believe the IRFU made the same mistake as with EOS by offering a new contract before the WC. Regardless of how things panned out it was senseless.

Sindri

Yes.

Some of the things the man does is baffling, I'm bewildered by some of his decisions. I would love to be clued in to his reasoning and logic but I just don't know what goes on in his head.

maddragon

Winning Eddie O'Sullivan's grand slam apart in 2009, kidneys results have been very mediocre. 2011 6 nations we beat Scotland, England and Italy and Scotland were only beaten by 3 points and Italy by 2. In 2010 we beat England, Italy and Wales.

The win against Australia in the rwc is the only shining light.

conno16

what would be the point in sacking him during the 6N?
other than to satisfy a minority of dimwits

Lapin

I hate this trend of looking for the manager/coach's head after one game.

It stems from a culture in British tabloid newspapers of calling for the resignation of various England soccer managers over the last 30 years, and has since crept into all other sports.

Wales deserved their win today, but it was only a late kick of the ball that ultimately decided the game. Had that ball not gone over the bar would this thread exist?

I doubt it.

Interestingly - Not one one person above calling for Kidney's head has suggested anyone to replace him.

FFS, there are four games left in this tournament. :mad:

Cpt_Blackbeard

Kidney is only part of the problem. The whole coaching staff flatter to deceive. You'd obviously wait until the 6N has played its part but, if the abject performances continue, only Smal and Feek have any claim to retaining their jobs.

I'd shovel a majority of the blame of today's performance on Kiss but, Kidney would have to follow him out the door.

cgpg5

Lapin wrote: »

I hate this trend of looking for the manager/coach's head after one game.

It stems from a culture in British tabloid newspapers of calling for the resignation of various England soccer managers over the last 30 years, and has since crept into all other sports.

Wales deserved their win today, but it was only a late kick of the ball that ultimately decided the game. Had that ball not gone over the bar would this thread exist?

I doubt it.

Interestingly - Not one one person above calling for Kidney's head has suggested anyone to replace him.

FFS, there are four games left in this tournament. :mad:

There still would've been a great level of disappointment in the Irish performance. Make no mistake Wales were the better team and it would've been very harsh on them to have lost.

And it isn't just after one game. We bowed out of the RWC in a very disappointing manner and played well in one game in the 2011 6n. We could easily have lost 4 games. The lack of faith in Kidney has been stemming for a while. He was always far too conservative for most peoples liking

Fight_Night

Lapin wrote: »

I hate this trend of looking for the manager/coach's head after one game.

It stems from a culture in British tabloid newspapers of calling for the resignation of various England soccer managers over the last 30 years, and has since crept into all other sports.

Wales deserved their win today, but it was only a late kick of the ball that ultimately decided the game. Had that ball not gone over the bar would this thread exist?

I doubt it.

Interestingly - Not one one person above calling for Kidney's head has suggested anyone to replace him.

FFS, there are four games left in this tournament. :mad:

Threads like this have been made for at least a year now, with good reason too, Kidney is just too conservative for international rugby.

danthefan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Kidney is only part of the problem. The whole coaching staff flatter to deceive. You'd obviously wait until the 6N has played its part but, if the abject performances continue, only Smal and Feek have any claim to retaining their jobs.

I'd shovel a majority of the blame of today's performance on Kiss but, Kidney would have to follow him out the door.

Because of attack or defense?

I don't think it's fair to blame him for the attack, he's not an attack coach and shouldn't be in that position.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd wait till after the 6 nations, if someone new came in he would take a few weeks to get the team playing whatever new style he tried to apply and I wouldn't surrender an entire six nations to that.

I would sack Kidney after the six nations. There is very little that he can do to convince me that it is right to keep him beyond the end the tournament. It would take four wins (ie win every game left) and to come first of second in the championship.

That said I would sack him now because I think its the play style not the players that is causing most of the problems. Surely it will take weeks to get the players used to a new style. Sure I would have played Ryan and benched Tuohy ahead of DOC but DOC is still a very good player and had a good game today. Sure I would have played Redden ahead of Murray and Murray's game was spoiled today not because of his own quality but because he kicked too much which I don't think was his decision but rather orders.

maddragon

Lapin wrote: »

I hate this trend of looking for the manager/coach's head after one game.

It stems from a culture in British tabloid newspapers of calling for the resignation of various England soccer managers over the last 30 years, and has since crept into all other sports.

Wales deserved their win today, but it was only a late kick of the ball that ultimately decided the game. Had that ball not gone over the bar would this thread exist?

I doubt it.

Interestingly - Not one one person above calling for Kidney's head has suggested anyone to replace him.

FFS, there are four games left in this tournament. :mad:

Sad thing is we all pretty much know how the 4 games will pan out. We lose heroically in France to the world cup finalists. Struggle against Italy and Scotland (2 teams with no backline) and round off the season by beating England in Twickers thus saving Kidneys head for another year. Mind you, I can see us losing in Twickenham.

fitz

maddragon wrote: »

Lapin wrote: »

I hate this trend of looking for the manager/coach's head after one game.

It stems from a culture in British tabloid newspapers of calling for the resignation of various England soccer managers over the last 30 years, and has since crept into all other sports.

Wales deserved their win today, but it was only a late kick of the ball that ultimately decided the game. Had that ball not gone over the bar would this thread exist?

I doubt it.

Interestingly - Not one one person above calling for Kidney's head has suggested anyone to replace him.

FFS, there are four games left in this tournament. :mad:

Sad thing is we all pretty much know how the 4 games will pan out. We lose heroically in France to the world cup finalists. Struggle against Italy and Scotland (2 teams with no backline) and round off the season by beating England in Twickers thus saving Kidneys head for another year. Mind you, I can see us losing in Twickenham.

I can see us losing to Scotland or Italy with our current game plan.

Tim Robbins

yeraulone wrote: »

The provincial teams are doing so well at the moment. The Ireland team is not progressing at all.

Why?

Because Isa Nacewa, Ruan Pienar, John Afoa, BJ Botha, Richard Strauus, would walk into the Irish team. Also our two main teams play different styles of Rugby. Kidney plays one style of Rugby. It was a disaster at Leinster and worked a dream at Munster.

Teferi

I'd love to see him gone at the end of the 6 Nations. Not going to happen though.

Cpt_Blackbeard

danthefan wrote: »

Because of attack or defense?

I don't think it's fair to blame him for the attack, he's not an attack coach and shouldn't be in that position.

Defense. The passive drift system we applied was a huge reason as to why we lost our last two games against Wales. Allowing such a huge backline to run the ball at us is just asking for trouble.

Had Wales wanted to, I'd say they could put a healthy score at us. All they had to do is get their big runners going straight at us and we've no answer to that. Regardless of their offload game, we should have sought to hit them low and behind the gainline. That's one thing that Murray did incredibly effectively and it essentially stopped Wales at source.

His attack coaching looks to be along the lines of:

"Kick the ball to the Welsh. Rely on our defense to regain possession. Repeat"

marco_polo

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Defense. The passive drift system we applied was a huge reason as to why we lost our last two games against Wales. Allowing such a huge backline to run the ball at us is just asking for trouble.

Had Wales wanted to, I'd say they could put a healthy score at us. All they had to do is get their big runners going straight at us and we've no answer to that. Regardless of their offload game, we should have sought to hit them low and behind the gainline. That's one thing that Murray did incredibly effectively and it essentially stopped Wales at source.

His attack coaching looks to be along the lines of:

"Kick the ball to the Welsh. Rely on our defense to regain possession. Repeat"

Agree 100% It is absolutley suicidal allowing players like north to build up momentum before they get to our defensive line.

fitz wrote: »

I can see us losing to Scotland or Italy with our current game plan.

It is only two short years ago that we managed to drag ourselves down to Scotlands level and lose at home.

BarackPyjama

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

I still can't believe the IRFU made the same mistake as with EOS by offering a new contract before the WC.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. You know the old saying "thick paddies"? This is what they mean by that.

bm1993

I think it's definitely time for him to go at the end of the 6 nations unless we win our remaining matches (which we won't).

Who would people like to see replace him? I'd have the follwing on a shortlist.

Joe Schmidt
Nick Mallett
John Kirwan
Conor O'Shea
Graham Henry

gcgirl

It's a bit knee jerk bit I'd would eventually like to see Conor o Shea or Joe Schmidt

skregs

When Eddie O Sullivan was turfed out, a lot of big names immediately ruled themselves out. Ireland just isn't an attractive option to coaches.

I wouldn't have Joe because I wouldn't want someone with such a large provincial bias coaching the national team.
Personally I'd throw money at Nick Mallett, but we'll be directing competing with England for coaching contracts after the 6N

EmeraldNK

Just out of interest, did anyone else notice Declan Kidney a little more put off and nervy in his post match interview than usual? He's usually very calm, even after our loss in the world cup... today his voice shook and he looked 'flustered', for lack of a better word...