Would you sack Kidney, yay, or nay ?

jm08

WeeBushy wrote: »

Can you imagine Kidney playing 5 new caps against Scotland if he were picking the team then? Not on your nelly.

3 of the 5 were Kidney proteges . good enough to get munster to a heineken cup final that season.

about 3 fity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBN1CO1cbM

dtpc191991

After seeing the team to play France. Yay!!!!

Teferi

Two Irish teams in the final, 3 in the play offs and yet we will play stuttering rubbish against the AB's in the summer. Anyone willing to bet against me?

buyer95

Why the unnecessary bump? What you have just said there is well trodden ground on this forum, the man and his dog knows that our club teams are flourishing at the expense of the national team. Wales have it right

chupacabra

buyer95 wrote: »

Why the unnecessary bump? What you have just said there is well trodden ground on this forum, the man and his dog knows that our club teams are flourishing at the expense of the national team. Wales have it right

Almost everything discussed regularily on this board is well trodden ground that the man and his dog knows. Why the unnecessary reply?

Teferi

buyer95 wrote: »

Why the unnecessary bump?

Unnecessary? I don't think so. I think there is a conversation to be had how yet again the Irish provinces are doing great while Ireland are playing well below the sum of their parts.

buyer95 wrote: »

our club teams are flourishing at the expense of the national team.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Also, what you wrote is utter shite. The clubs are not flourishing at the expense of the national team. The international players are given every opportunity to prepare for every game. No expense spared, the best of everything provided for them in order to for them to perform in every international game. The central contracts allow them to be managed in everything they do in regards to rugby in order to peak at the right time.

So you are saying that the central contract system is failing? I find that hard to believe.

CatFromHue

Teferi wrote: »

Unnecessary? I don't think so. I think there is a conversation to be had how yet again the Irish provinces are doing great while Ireland are playing well below the sum of their parts.

What's there to talk about? They were doing well before the 6N's too.

Ireland don't play the AB's for another 6 weeks or so, I'd imagine the squad won't be picked for another 4. It's currently in hibernation and has been for 6 weeks or so.

my friend

I would sack him.

Look at Munster today and you will see his failings.

His inability to start Trimble at TRWC was the final nail IMO

JustinDee

CatFromHue wrote: »

What's there to talk about? They were doing well before the 6N's too.

Ireland don't play the AB's for another 6 weeks or so, I'd imagine the squad won't be picked for another 4. It's currently in hibernation and has been for 6 weeks or so.

Actually in a short camp this week then another pre-tour version following the ERC final.

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

Two Irish teams in the final, 3 in the play offs and yet we will play stuttering rubbish against the AB's in the summer. Anyone willing to bet against me?

Playing New Zealand in New Zealand on a three-test tour is barely comparable to a home-based play-off match.

danthefan

JustinDee wrote: »

Teferi wrote: »

Two Irish teams in the final, 3 in the play offs and yet we will play stuttering rubbish against the AB's in the summer. Anyone willing to bet against me?

Playing New Zealand in New Zealand on a three-test tour is barely comparable to a home-based play-off match.

Do you really think Kidney is getting the most out of the players he has available?

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

Playing New Zealand in New Zealand on a three-test tour is barely comparable to a home-based play-off match.

... and Gerry Thornley has his excuse prepared already!

sting60

Teferi wrote: »

Two Irish teams in the final, 3 in the play offs and yet we will play stuttering rubbish against the AB's in the summer. Anyone willing to bet against me?

Why are we going in the first place ,we know the test results.Money could be better spent setting up coaching in the vast amount of this Island that the IRFU doesnt know is there.

irishbucsfan

We'll win a test this summer imo.

No way NZ play their strongest team in all 3 games.

I'll be delighted for guys like POC and BOD as they deserve to be on the team that beats them first.

Unfortunately one win in NZ will give the IRFU an excuse to keep Kidney until the end of his agreed contract. Who knows how far we will have slipped in the rankings by then.

bamboozle

we'll have 4 provinces in the HC next season, it will be a great opportunity for 4 squads of irish players to be getting HC exposure and for an open minded coach to pick the best available players. DK will not do that and it will be another season wasted.

clsmooth

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We'll win a test this summer imo.

No way NZ play their strongest team in all 3 games.

I'll be delighted for guys like POC and BOD as they deserve to be on the team that beats them first.

Unfortunately one win in NZ will give the IRFU an excuse to keep Kidney until the end of his agreed contract. Who knows how far we will have slipped in the rankings by then.

Not a chance we'll win one. We might come within a score but thats it. When you hear about Brad Thorn talking about not wanting to be a part of the first AB team to lose to Ireland you can get a snapshot of their mentality-they will feel under pressure to continue this and will be 100% focused even if they do rests a few players. We may have the players to do it, but not the game plan

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We'll win a test this summer imo.

No way NZ play their strongest team in all 3 games.

I'll be delighted for guys like POC and BOD as they deserve to be on the team that beats them first.

Unfortunately one win in NZ will give the IRFU an excuse to keep Kidney until the end of his agreed contract. Who knows how far we will have slipped in the rankings by then.

Don't think he'd get the road bar humiliation this summer tbh

I agree though, knowing Kidney he'll come up with some sort of attrition based game plan, half by accident, that will win us one of the games

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

Playing New Zealand in New Zealand on a three-test tour is barely comparable to a home-based play-off match.

Er...?

You have missed my point. 3 of the provinces got to the knock out stages, 2 have reached the final of the second biggest stage in Northern Hemisphere rugby. Irish rugby has never been stronger yet we are consistently failing to make an impact at international level.

Which brings me to two conclusions: Either we only have really good HC standard players who cannot make the step up or there is something rotten in the international set up. One of these conclusions is definitely incorrect.

I'm not expecting miracles in New Zealand, stringing 3 good performances together for the calibre of player available to our team isn't much to ask though.

Look, if Kidney isn't the reason we look aimless and many players look uncomfortable then as soon as we get a new coach in and the new coach produces failure then I will be first to stick my hand up and say I was wrong. I'm betting I won't have to though.

sting60 wrote: »

Why are we going in the first place ,we know the test results.Money could be better spent setting up coaching in the vast amount of this Island that the IRFU doesnt know is there.

Absolutely nothing wrong with some ambition and it's a great statement on intent to go on a 3 test tour of New Zealand. I'd absolutely love to see us do one over on them tbh.

Macy0161

buyer95 wrote: »

Why the unnecessary bump? What you have just said there is well trodden ground on this forum, the man and his dog knows that our club teams are flourishing at the expense of the national team. Wales have it right

What is it that provinces are doing, that is at the expense of the national team? I don't see how they are mutually exclusive, especially given the IRFU player management regime. Unless you're suggesting that we're failing because the international team has too much control of players?

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

Er...?

You have missed my point. 3 of the provinces got to the knock out stages, 2 have reached the final of the second biggest stage in Northern Hemisphere rugby. Irish rugby has never been stronger yet we are consistently failing to make an impact at international level

I didn't miss your point. I was pointing out that you are comparing provinces doing well in an ERC comp with a pre-emptive conclusion that the national team will not be able to win against New Zealand in New Zealand.
Didn't even touch on the fact that ERC and international level are two entirely kettles of fish.

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

I didn't miss your point. I was pointing out that you are comparing provinces doing well in an ERC comp with a pre-emptive conclusion that the national team will not be able to win against New Zealand in New Zealand.

My stuttering rubbish comment was to do with the performance not the result. These things are different.

JustinDee wrote: »

Didn't even touch on the fact that ERC and international level are two entirely kettles of fish.

Teferi wrote: »

Which brings me to two conclusions: Either we only have really good HC standard players who cannot make the step up or there is something rotten in the international set up. One of these conclusions is definitely incorrect.

I am pie

Macy0161 wrote: »

What is it that provinces are doing, that is at the expense of the national team? I don't see how they are mutually exclusive, especially given the IRFU player management regime. Unless you're suggesting that we're failing because the international team has too much control of players?

I hear this all the time, and for the life of me I cannot understand it either ! How are successful clubs hindering the national team? It's beyond bizarre.

Will Wales still be developing great players for the national team in 5 to 10 years with struggling clubs?

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

My stuttering rubbish comment was to do with the performance not the result. These things are different.

It is all about results.
If you win in New Zealand against their national side, the performance is irrelevant to what follows.

sting60

Teferi wrote: »

Er...?

You have missed my point. 3 of the provinces got to the knock out stages, 2 have reached the final of the second biggest stage in Northern Hemisphere rugby. Irish rugby has never been stronger yet we are consistently failing to make an impact at international level.

Which brings me to two conclusions: Either we only have really good HC standard players who cannot make the step up or there is something rotten in the international set up. One of these conclusions is definitely incorrect.

I'm not expecting miracles in New Zealand, stringing 3 good performances together for the calibre of player available to our team isn't much to ask though.

Look, if Kidney isn't the reason we look aimless and many players look uncomfortable then as soon as we get a new coach in and the new coach produces failure then I will be first to stick my hand up and say I was wrong. I'm betting I won't have to though.




Absolutely nothing wrong with some ambition and it's a great statement on intent to go on a 3 test tour of New Zealand. I'd absolutely love to see us do one over on them tbh.

Statement of intent should be made in games of consequence not friendlies.Kidney will have to play the old guard in NZ but if we played in a tour against same/lesser quality he could play up and comming players.Me thinks this and manyother tours are about money.

Teferi

JustinDee wrote: »

It is all about results.

Which Kidney has consistently failed to provide.

JustinDee

Teferi wrote: »

Which Kidney has consistently failed to provide.

Not the point you were making. You were insisting that the "performance" was the issue. If they did win in New Zealand, would you still complain about the style of doing so?

lologram

JustinDee wrote: »

It is all about results.

Then you must agree that the results are not good enough, I guess.

Since Nov '10: P23 W11 L11 D1

Against Tier 1 teams: P20 W8 L11 D1

The performances have been awful too, mind you.

fitz

JustinDee wrote: »

Not the point you were making. You were insisting that the "performance" was the issue. If they did win in New Zealand, would you still complain about the style of doing so?

The two are linked though Justin.
The few big results we've had in the last three years have been when the team played closest to the fast, aggressive, modern rugby that these players are capable of.

If the team were coached differently, in a way that suits the modern game, the performances we all crave would deliver the results that the suits obviously believe can be delivered by a coach doing his best do defend his way to wins.
It's arse about face.

We're chasing results, regardless of performance. The last three years have shown that doesn't work.
Get the performance right, and the results will follow.

JustinDee

fitz wrote: »

The two are linked though Justin.
The few big results we've had in the last three years have been when the team played closest to the fast, aggressive, modern rugby that these players are capable of

It wasn't the poster's point in the first place and thats why I'm pointing that out.
Ireland have had some close called wins in some pretty ordinary performances where nobody gave two shinies how the team played.
Once the result happens, people tend not to look any further back. Thats how it goes in any sport. There have also been hard-fought performances unrewarded by result not going their way. Do the performances get lauded above all else? Nope.

Example of such games just this weekend? Would you hail the two provincial wins as classic great performances? From a purely rugby perspective, I wouldn't. Plenty wrong with yesterday for example. Discipline was poor. Kicking from hand and tactical generally woeful, cynicism at breakdown was just buttnuggetry. Why was it memorable so? A result against a fancied side in the penultimate stage of the tournament.