beef price tracker

leoch

Well if them thugs u keeptalking about had the gardi the ag dept and all the ministers, rte ,mii the revenue etc behind them backing them to the hilt then it would be very different indeed and they wouldnt need to be betrayed like thugs as u call them it would be the factories then getting frustrated do u not think???

wrangler

leoch wrote: »

Well if them thugs u keeptalking about had the gardi the ag dept and all the ministers, rte ,mii the revenue etc behind them backing them to the hilt then it would be very different indeed and they wouldnt need to be betrayed like thugs as u call them it would be the factories then getting frustrated do u not think???

Factories won't give in. They'd never stay in business if farmers thought they could block the gates if some farmer dreamt he got a wrong grade or price.
Beef plan better get cute or they'll **** it up for everyone. They're so abusive now they're winding each other up.
The level of subsidies won't continue if farmers keep abusing the government, plenty of hospitals, nursing homes, schools,etc need money worse than farmers at the moment

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Why do you think that, is it because they don't abuse government departments or tell lies about them or even tell lies to them like Beef Plan do.
Do IFA look soft because they're not thugs

The waters are fairly murky and far from black and white regarding the IFA. Wrangler is a antagonist and definitely not representative of local ifa here anyway.
We were glad of the ifa last year during the high court injunction cases. They were probably the best, and most coherent speakers at the table as well.
I concur with paunch on his commentary of the breakaway groups, some right head the balls with soapboxes and I think most of us that were at the gates don’t subscribe to any of them at this stage.
The ifa would have the lions share of the protest I was involved in.
It was a massive mistake that they hadn’t the leadership to step up officially when the momentum was there.
They haven’t been able to muster such support in over 20 years and they’ll never manage it again I fear.

Base price

Jjameson wrote: »

The waters are fairly murky and far from black and white regarding the IFA. Wrangler is a antagonist and definitely not representative of local ifa here anyway.
We were glad of the ifa last year during the high court injunction cases. They were probably the best, and most coherent speakers at the table as well.
I concur with paunch on his commentary of the breakaway groups, some right head the balls with soapboxes and I think most of us that were at the gates don’t subscribe to any of them at this stage.
The ifa would have the lions share of the protest I was involved in.
It was a massive mistake that they hadn’t the leadership to step up officially when the momentum was there.
They haven’t been able to muster such support in over 20 years and they’ll never manage it again I fear.

They have never managed to muster support for a factory blockade in over 20 years and it is entirely understandable - https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0117/5153-farmers/

Jjameson

Base price wrote: »

They have never managed to muster support for a factory blockade in over 20 years and it is entirely understandable - https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0117/5153-farmers/

I’m aware of that and I do and did understand it but there’s always a way of boxing cleverly.
The injunction served on an individual with no proven affiliation to any group is untouchable as long as he abides by the said injunction. It was a costly process for the cartel. Leave the banners at home, stand as an individual.

But after all that as I have said here numerous times I will never bother myself with such things again.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

The waters are fairly murky and far from black and white regarding the IFA. Wrangler is a antagonist and definitely not representative of local ifa here anyway.
We were glad of the ifa last year during the high court injunction cases. They were probably the best, and most coherent speakers at the table as well.
I concur with paunch on his commentary of the breakaway groups, some right head the balls with soapboxes and I think most of us that were at the gates don’t subscribe to any of them at this stage.
The ifa would have the lions share of the protest I was involved in.
It was a massive mistake that they hadn’t the leadership to step up officially when the momentum was there.
They haven’t been able to muster such support in over 20 years and they’ll never manage it again I fear.

Antagonist..... because I tell you the way it is, a bit of reality.
I foretold the way it was all going to go last year because we've all been there done that and know the outcome.
The fact that you supported them last year, they still think they have that support, they'll get nowhere with their abusive carry on.
Thinking they have that support they have done their best to undermine Irish beef across the Internet even directly writing to English supermarkets.
If it's antagonistic not to agree with all that's going on and if it's antagonistic not to accept the criticism of hard working farmers in IFA (that are elected by farmers) , then I hold my hands up.
With the off farm income and subs coming into beef farmers now I'd venture to say the farmers that are worried about the price of beef are in the minority, most have moved on to other enterprises that would be concerned

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Antagonist..... because I tell you the way it is, a bit of reality.
I foretold the way it was all going to go last year because we've all been there done that and know the outcome.
The fact that you supported them last year, they still think they have that support, they'll get nowhere with their abusive carry on.
Thinking they have that support they have done their best to undermine Irish beef across the Internet even directly writing to English supermarkets.
If it's antagonistic not to agree with all that's going on and if it's antagonistic not to accept the criticism of hard working farmers in IFA (that are elected by farmers) , then I hold my hands up.
With the off farm income and subs coming into beef farmers now I'd venture to say the farmers that are worried about the price of beef are in the minority, most have moved on to other enterprises that would be concerned

I didn’t go out in support of a new group. I went with my neighbours and family because 3.45 a kg and a belligerent factory procurement manager put his chest out a promised 3.00 a kg by Christmas. And because I’m in the have not category of beef farmers.

The problem I suppose is that the “haves” in beef farming(who are the minority). dominate the industry.

Last year your endless tirade of antagonist nonsense would indicate my farm would be gone and the uk retail market would risk Brazilian beef and the inevitability of food scares, public vitriol.
And of course the insurmountable Glut.

You do the IFA a lot of harm on this they should find a new hobby for you.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

I didn’t go out in support of a new group. I went with my neighbours and family because 3.45 a kg and a belligerent factory procurement manager put his chest out a promised 3.00 a kg by Christmas. And because I’m in the have not category of beef farmers.

The problem I suppose is that the “haves” in beef farming(who are the minority). dominate the industry.

Last year your endless tirade of antagonist nonsense would indicate my farm would be gone and the uk retail market would risk Brazilian beef and the inevitability of food scares, public vitriol.
And of course the insurmountable Glut.

You do the IFA a lot of harm on this they should find a new hobby for you.

That's all lies for a start, I told you the way you'd be treated at the gates, My exact words on what the negotiations would achieve were 'not a lot' The whole thing did nothing only harm I tried to stop you making fools of yourselves.
As for the glut you obviously weren't trying to sell cattle during the autumn.
The 'haves' are the majority, even Corley has a massive SFP, If your farm is in beef a while I'd guess you have a good one yourself too as do a lot here that don't admit to it.

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

That's all lies for a start, I told you the way you'd be treated at the gates, My exact words on what the negotiations would achieve were 'not a lot' The whole thing did nothing only harm I tried to stop you making fools of yourselves.
As for the glut you obviously weren't trying to sell cattle during the autumn.
The 'haves' are the majority, even Corley has a massive SFP, If your farm is in beef a while I'd guess you have a good one yourself too as do a lot here that don't admit to it.

No lies. You write so much ****e there’s just too many pages to scroll back to bring the real nonsense really it to the Fore. But I will dig it up tonight because of that that slur. I am that “SAD”!
The only ifa presidential candidate in favour of the protest won the election. The guys that look stupid are those that backed the wrong horse. Adam Woods!!!

The stats on Irish beef farming and sfp payments are widely known and your belligerent arrogance to acknowledge them doesn’t surprise me. You are with the “haves” and that’s your narrative.

I had 68 cattle fit or close to fit last October 1st. I didn’t buy into industry propoganda or that of a contingent of disgruntled ifa/ifj and sold from 1st week of January to 3rd week of feb at flat rates in excess of 40cent a kg had I given them away.
Thanks taxpayer for the top up as well...
But still f all made from them.

My sfp is around the national average and I can’t make any more of it but there’s a huge contingent of have nots with a an awful lot less.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

No lies. You write so much ****e there’s just too many pages to scroll back to bring the real nonsense really it to the Fore. But I will dig it up tonight because of that that slur. I am that “SAD”!
The only ifa presidential candidate in favour of the protest won the election. The guys that look stupid are those that backed the wrong horse. Adam Woods!!!

The stats on Irish beef farming and sfp payments are widely known and your belligerent arrogance to acknowledge them doesn’t surprise me. You are with the “haves” and that’s your narrative.

I had 68 cattle fit or close to fit last October 1st. I didn’t buy into industry propoganda or that of a contingent of disgruntled ifa/ifj and sold from 1st week of January to 3rd week of feb at flat rates in excess of 40cent a kg had I given them away.
Thanks taxpayer for the top up as well...
But still f all made from them.

My sfp is around the national average and I can’t make any more of it but there’s a huge contingent of have nots with a an awful lot less.

I won't quote you my subs on eleven acres but my neighbour, a builder, with fifteen acres that used to rear a few calves to beef in the reference years gets 2400 euros and would've got another €800 on his beef cattle had he went for a bord Bia inspection, so excuse me if I don't see it difficult to get good subs.

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

I won't quote you my subs on eleven acres but my neighbour, a builder, with fifteen acres that used to rear a few calves to beef in the reference years gets 2400 euros and would've got another €800 on his beef cattle had he went for a bord Bia inspection, so excuse me if I don't see it difficult to get good subs.

Have you the benefit of a time machine? Ffs.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Have you the benefit of a time machine? Ffs.

Sure that's why I pray to brussels everyday and say an odd one for Ray Mc Sharry too

mallethead2

This attitude annoys the f. K out me I have great subs and your a thick because you don’t
Why should subs be based on what you did nearly 20 years ago system just looks after the big fellow
Doesn’t do anything for people starting out or the lost generation
And what about the people who farm with out
Subs

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Sure that's why I pray to brussels everyday and say an odd one for Ray Mc Sharry too

Try the devil!

wrangler

mallethead2 wrote: »

This attitude annoys the f. K out me I have great subs and your a thick because you don’t
Why should subs be based on what you did nearly 20 years ago system just looks after the big fellow
Doesn’t do anything for people starting out or the lost generation
And what about the people who farm with out
Subs

I don't think I said that, but the effort to take our income from us isn't going to do anything to improve our opinion of yous.
20 years is nothing, milk quota lasted over 30 years and we just had to suck it up, it's certainly not looking after the big fellow, mine is down about 30% + in the last 8 year. That money must be going somewhere, is it not new entrants.
At the time I was setting my land young farmers were getting up to 300/ha entitlements just by renting land and they could sell the entitlements after one year. All those concessions to young farmers are being abused all over.

mallethead2

I won't quote you my subs on eleven acres but my neighbour, a builder, with fifteen acres that used to rear a few calves to beef in the reference years gets 2400 euros and would've got another €800 on his beef cattle had he went for a bord Bia inspection, so excuse me if I don't see it difficult to get good subs.

If you farmed without subs what would you think of this statement




I don't care what you have in subs stop blowing
as for an income I always thought you earned it
system is very unfair if its based on what you did 20 years ago

new entrants.
Not too many of them around average age is well over fifty
I m considered young at 40


At the time I was setting my land young farmers were getting up to 300/ha entitlements just by renting land and they could sell the entitlements after one year. All those concessions to young farmers are being abused all over.

Is this not an example of how wrong this system is

patsy_mccabe

Isn't it a great day today. 😎

ruwithme

https://www.donedeal.ie/farmersnoticeboard-for-sale/cattle-price-forecasting-expert-for-hire/25733675?campaign=3

At last a expert

Mooooo

ruwithme wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/farmersnoticeboard-for-sale/cattle-price-forecasting-expert-for-hire/25733675?campaign=3

At last a expert

Lol

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

With the off farm income and subs coming into beef farmers now I'd venture to say the farmers that are worried about the price of beef are in the minority, most have moved on to other enterprises that would be concerned

wrangler wrote: »

I don't think I said that, but the effort to take our income from us isn't going to do anything to improve our opinion of yous.
20 years is nothing, milk quota lasted over 30 years and we just had to suck it up, it's certainly not looking after the big fellow, mine is down about 30% + in the last 8 year. That money must be going somewhere, is it not new entrants.
At the time I was setting my land young farmers were getting up to 300/ha entitlements just by renting land and they could sell the entitlements after one year. All those concessions to young farmers are being abused all over.

Concessions to young farmers has very little to do with reduction in payments. National reserves are limited. Most reductions are due to reduction in CAP budget. This has been the main influence in reduction in payments. I say payments have reduced by nearer 40% than 30% since 2002.

This is where many fail to see the issue. there is no point in looking to the EU for payments to solve farm incomes. Any upturn has to come from the market. But as long as the imbalance in power stays there we will struggle to improve farm profitability.

Off farm income is a red herring used to blame profitability in the beef sector. Nobody will run an enterprise at a loss if it can be avoided. Neither are the large SFP around that were there that were there previously. Your builder neighbour with 2400 on 15 acres is getting 400/HA, that will be whittled away. Part of that payment may or may not have been stacked from rented or if a builder build on land. Over the next period all payments will be reduced to the national average.

I presume the 800 extra was from the slaughter schemes. These are useless they are one off payments to winter finishers keeping some of them in the game.

As for your attitude that Beef plans actions were a failure, they did steady the beef price last year and stop the slide. You belief that the processors won is deluded. They have been on the back foot since and political opinion now sees that there is an issue there. And as Gerry Adams once said ''they have not gone away''. There is a struggle with some infighting but they may emerge stronger or be moved into a radical younger organisation.

leoch

Maybe when sinn Fein take over next time they will shake up the cartels hopefully

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Concessions to young farmers has very little to do with reduction in payments. National reserves are limited. Most reductions are due to reduction in CAP budget. This has been the main influence in reduction in payments. I say payments have reduced by nearer 40% than 30% since 2002.

This is where many fail to see the issue. there is no point in looking to the EU for payments to solve farm incomes. Any upturn has to come from the market. But as long as the imbalance in power stays there we will struggle to improve farm profitability.

Off farm income is a red herring used to blame profitability in the beef sector. Nobody will run an enterprise at a loss if it can be avoided. Neither are the large SFP around that were there that were there previously. Your builder neighbour with 2400 on 15 acres is getting 400/HA, that will be whittled away. Part of that payment may or may not have been stacked from rented or if a builder build on land. Over the next period all payments will be reduced to the national average.

I presume the 800 extra was from the slaughter schemes. These are useless they are one off payments to winter finishers keeping some of them in the game.

As for your attitude that Beef plans actions were a failure, they did steady the beef price last year and stop the slide. You belief that the processors won is deluded. They have been on the back foot since and political opinion now sees that there is an issue there. And as Gerry Adams once said ''they have not gone away''. There is a struggle with some infighting but they may emerge stronger or be moved into a radical younger organisation.

That builder didn't stack anything and I'd say that disadvantage payment would account for €600 of it.,
I wonder at what price demand and abuse from farmers will processors say feck this and close down, I think you've said that they are making too much to walk away.

Panch18

leoch wrote: »

Maybe when sinn Fein take over next time they will shake up the cartels hopefully

IF SF get into power then Larry will be the least of our problems

Danzy

wrangler wrote: »

I wonder at what price demand and abuse from farmers will processors say feck this and close down, I think you've said that they are making too much to walk away.

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ€£

They cry themselves to sleep at night.

All the scandals, tribunals, regulations ignored, laws flouted and all they wanted was farmers to be friends with them.

wrangler

Danzy wrote: »

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜��

They cry themselves to sleep at night.

All the scandals, tribunals, regulations ignored, laws flouted and all they wanted was farmers to be friends with them.

They ignore all of that, but if they can't work at their price they'd be fools to stay around

Jjameson

There is a large contingent running beef enterprises at a loss at face value Bass.
Taxation is some of the reason, but independent income is why the big exodus from winter finishing, or beef in general is not happening.

Jjameson

leoch wrote: »

Maybe when sinn Fein take over next time they will shake up the cartels hopefully

No fan of the party but I think Pearse Doherty is great in opposition and it pains me to say it. Just as Gilmore was back in the Bertie era but let em in and they will flop.

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Concessions to young farmers has very little to do with reduction in payments. National reserves are limited. Most reductions are due to reduction in CAP budget. This has been the main influence in reduction in payments. I say payments have reduced by nearer 40% than 30% since 2002.

This is where many fail to see the issue. there is no point in looking to the EU for payments to solve farm incomes. Any upturn has to come from the market. But as long as the imbalance in power stays there we will struggle to improve farm profitability.

Off farm income is a red herring used to blame profitability in the beef sector. Nobody will run an enterprise at a loss if it can be avoided. Neither are the large SFP around that were there that were there previously. Your builder neighbour with 2400 on 15 acres is getting 400/HA, that will be whittled away. Part of that payment may or may not have been stacked from rented or if a builder build on land. Over the next period all payments will be reduced to the national average.

I presume the 800 extra was from the slaughter schemes. These are useless they are one off payments to winter finishers keeping some of them in the game.

As for your attitude that Beef plans actions were a failure, they did steady the beef price last year and stop the slide. You belief that the processors won is deluded. They have been on the back foot since and political opinion now sees that there is an issue there. And as Gerry Adams once said ''they have not gone away''. There is a struggle with some infighting but they may emerge stronger or be moved into a radical younger organisation.

Unfortunately off farm income isn't a red herring - but an actual reality

you only have to look at the buildings section of the journal - a fella with 25 sucklers dropping 150k on a shed for them, whilst having a nice 3 year old JD 100hp tractor to feed them, and your telling me they're losing money and the off farm income is a red herring. if logic and money came into it fellas would never see sheds like that - and its not just the odd shed either.

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

There is a large contingent running beef enterprises at a loss at face value Bass.
Taxation is some of the reason, but independent income is why the big exodus from winter finishing, or beef in general is not happening.

The reason there is no exodus from WF is that it is too easy to do and the government bails them out every time. Winter finisher's, Suckler farmers and tillage are a protected species in the IFA and FJ eyes. Look at this year except for the good weather at the moment we would have all the cenarshauling and crying for the tillage farmers and a push for a bail out.

Look at the furore over suckling farming and winter finishing is the same. There are already lads planning to fill sheds by the way store prices are going know that another beam scheme will partially insulate them. It too easy to fill the yard of bread meal and other by products to load into a diet feeder. It the small lad finishing 20-30bullocks that is at that crack. The longer the protection racket continues the longer lads will do it.

Most of the lads at it are contractors or tillage farmers afraid of not having an excuse to start the tractor Christmas morning

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

Unfortunately off farm income isn't a red herring - but an actual reality

you only have to look at the buildings section of the journal - a fella with 25 sucklers dropping 150k on a shed for them, whilst having a nice 3 year old JD 100hp tractor to feed them, and your telling me they're losing money and the off farm income is a red herring. if logic and money came into it fellas would never see sheds like that - and its not just the odd shed either.

Lads spending that money on a shed for suckler's is an outlier. Most Suckler sheds I see for that amount of cows are 40-50k max before vat and grant maybe 21-27k net of vat and grant and 14-18k net of tax.

Ya I see lads at that crack with tractors but second hand is not easy to come by any longer in a smaller stick tractor. However again I see few enough around me at that unless tractor is used for contracting on the side