beef price tracker

Jjameson

Danzy wrote: »

There is nothing in the factories record to make me certain that the grades are to be trusted, that cuts from one are not labelled or boxed as another.

If it comes off a QA farm it’s sold as bord bia QA beef regardless of grade.
Bord bia have no influence on pricing.

Base price

Just a reminder to those who have eligible animals for the Beef Finisher Payment Scheme that the closing date is tomorrow Wednesday the 9th. The IFA have an easy to follow guide to help people apply.

https://www.ifa.ie/sectors/cattle/beef-finisher-payment-scheme-how-to-apply/

locha

Anyone getting better then 3.60 base for steers?
I got 3.65 last week but it’s not to be got this week- or so they are saying

ruwithme

Not much tracking off beef price here of late.
€3.60 base for inspec heifers in liffey bjd this week.

got €3.65 last week.

Panch18

I see on the auld Facepain there that Beef Plan are going to go into the next Beef Task force meeting and demand €4.50 a kilo as the minimumm price for beef!!

Lots of new tractors will be bought so!!

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

I see on the auld Facepain there that Beef Plan are going to go into the next Beef Task force meeting and demand €4.50 a kilo as the minimumm price for beef!!

Lots of new tractors will be bought so!!

I do not know why you sneer at it. In reality we need to get above 4/kg of a base for lads to make a decent return. A 380 DW R+grading suckler bullock is making 1450 euro, an O+ grading AA/HE bullock 335DW is leaving 1250 euro and a FR bullock killing 350DW at O- is netting About 1170.

There is not much margin on any of them if brought from calves. IMO we need a minimum base of 390 as and work from there but if prices continue as is dairy farmers will need to be throwing lads a few bob to take calves

straight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not know why you sneer at it. In reality we need to get above 4/kg of s base for lads to make a decent return. A 380 DW R+grading Suckler bullock is making 1450 euro, an O+ grading AA/HE bullock 335DW is leaving 1250 we euro and FR bullock killing 350DW at O- is netting About 1170.

There is not much margin on any of them if brought from calves. IMO we need a minimum base of 390 as and work from there but if prices continue as is dairy farmers will need to b throwing lads a few bob to take calves

Dairy farmers are already subsidising the whole thing and I dont know why it should be down to us. A calf a few weeks old, tagged, bvd tested, after drinking at least 40 litres a week, treated for scour, etc. and given away for feck all. Lads can go away then and pay a couple of hundred for weaned calves.

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not know why you sneer at it. In reality we need to get above 4/kg of a base for lads to make a decent return. A 380 DW R+grading suckler bullock is making 1450 euro, an O+ grading AA/HE bullock 335DW is leaving 1250 euro and a FR bullock killing 350DW at O- is netting About 1170.

There is not much margin on any of them if brought from calves. IMO we need a minimum base of 390 as and work from there but if prices continue as is dairy farmers will need to be throwing lads a few bob to take calves

So do you in all honesty Bass think that it is even in the slightest bit realistic to go in an say that the minimum price should be 4.50 when:

a) current prices are in the 3.60 - 3.70 bracket
b) nearly half our beef goes to UK and look at the mess brexit is in right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if prices will be closer to 3 euro this time next year than they will be to 4.50.

4.50 is just pie in the sky to be going in asking for - there is a better chance of winning the lottery.

gerryirl

Panch18 wrote: »

I see on the auld Facepain there that Beef Plan are going to go into the next Beef Task force meeting and demand €4.50 a kilo as the minimumm price for beef!!

Lots of new tractors will be bought so!!

who are beef plan now.. whos going into the meeting on their behalf

SuperTortoise

straight wrote: »

Dairy farmers are already subsidising the whole thing and I dont know why it should be down to us. A calf a few weeks old, tagged, bvd tested, after drinking at least 40 litres a week, treated for scour, etc. and given away for feck all. Lads can go away then and pay a couple of hundred for weaned calves.

Pitting dairy lads against the beef lads plays into the hands of larry and co.
Divide and conquer?

straight

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Pitting dairy lads against the beef lads plays into the hands of larry and co.
Divide and conquer?

My point exactly. Sick of reading that the dairy farmer should pay people to take calves especially when the reality is that we already are.

Jjameson

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b2aJjjz5t80UJ_gT3z8aGjHA

I screen shot this last year from face book. The ifa payed Jim power for page upon page of nothing when the truth can be established so easily with a bit of effort.

This is where it should start. A 3 mont Uk and European pricewatch of retail/wholesale catering value of Irish beef.

Jjameson

Panch18 wrote: »

So do you in all honesty Bass this that it is even in the slightest bit realistic to go in an say that the minimum price should be 4.50 when:

a) current prices are in the 3.60 - 3.70 bracket
b) nearly half our beef goes to UK and look at the mess brexit is in right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if prices will be closer to 3 euro this time next year than they will be to 4.50.

4.50 is just pie in the sky to be going in asking for - there is a better chance of winning the lottery.

Brexit the gift that keeps on giving to the cartel. And while the cartel is the tail wagging the dog in the Irish and uk beef industry I agree €4.50 is pie in the sky but it is realistic. The horsemeat saga showed us without a shadow of doubt it is.

Panch18

gerryirl wrote: »

who are beef plan now.. whos going into the meeting on their behalf

Who knows!!!

ruwithme

As ever far to much attention on larry and co. They will do what ever it is they do. Seems they do it well.

How about what could we do?i certainly don't have maybe any answers. Collectively we the farmers have let our own selves down for years gone by.

Yes others have failed us too.
Could i suggest we calve more cows down in the autumn so as to have somewhat less cattle approach 30 months of age in late summer/early autumn

Could government support the suckler farmer prepared to do this with a subsidy for the autumn calf??

This is just one suggestion. Maybe it wouldn't change anything?others will know better.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b2aJjjz5t80UJ_gT3z8aGjHA

I screen shot this last year from face book. The ifa payed Jim power for page upon page of nothing when the truth can be established so easily with a bit of effort.

This is where it should start. A 3 mont Uk and European pricewatch of retail/wholesale catering value of Irish beef.

What is the advantage of that information, I questioned the same when Jim Power was doing it too. Unless you're going to build a factory it's a pointless exercise.
Processors will still buy as cheap as they can and sell as dear as they can, same as everyone else

Water John

ruwithme wrote: »

As ever far to much attention on larry and co. They will do what ever it is they do. Seems they do it well.

How about what could we do?i certainly don't have maybe any answers. Collectively we the farmers have let our own selves down for years gone by.

Yes others have failed us too.
Could i suggest we calve more cows down in the autumn so as to have somewhat less cattle approach 30 months of age in late summer/early autumn

Could government support the suckler farmer prepared to do this with a subsidy for the autumn calf??

This is just one suggestion. Maybe it wouldn't change anything?others will know better.

Maybe we should ask what is the sacredness of the 30 month arbitrary date?

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

What is the advantage of that information, I questioned the same when Jim Power was doing it too. Unless you're going to build a factory it's a pointless exercise.
Processors will still buy as cheap as they can and sell as dear as they can, same as everyone else

It would at least disarm the industry claim of high volume low margin. Back of fag box figures indicate a 100% gross margin.

Taking a plants net taxable profit and dividing it by animal throughput is ridiculous when every family baron member is a paid director or executive, every wage has been paid, every whimsical expense used. Jim power had absolutely nothing to go on. No information.
Eg. A beef baron family had a horse with a local trainer a couple of years back. After a grade2 win a restaurant in Dublin benefitted to the tune of 5 to 6 k in a splurge for all involved. Corporate expenses. This is not uncommon.


So it’s a consumer issue as much as as a producer issue. Particularly when the consumers tax is “subsidising” the producer in time’s of particular industry profiteering.

Jjameson

Water John wrote: »

Maybe we should ask what is the sacredness of the 30 month arbitrary date?

Lidl answered but none of the rest. I send repeated emails to each one and never got an answer. Bord bia label on beef does not mean under any age.

Cut size is what matters and there is a link in fairness but it contradicts the grass fed slogan.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

It would at least disarm the industry claim of high volume low margin. Back of fag box figures indicate a 100% gross margin.

Taking a plants net taxable profit and dividing it by animal throughput is ridiculous when every family baron member is a paid director or executive, every wage has been paid, every whimsical expense used. Jim power had absolutely nothing to go on. No information.
Eg. A beef baron family had a horse with a local trainer a couple of years back. After a grade2 win a restaurant in Dublin benefitted to the tune of 5 to 6 k in a splurge for all involved. Corporate expenses. This is not uncommon.


So it’s a consumer issue as much as as a producer issue. Particularly when the consumers tax is “subsidising” the producer in time’s of particular industry profiteering.

To be honest, the badgering of meat plants that's going on would make me less likely to increase price if I owned one.
Look at the lamb factories, no protests yet no worse than beef factories. Would beef factories kill all our cattle if it wasn't so attractive, it could be another case of farmers shooting themselves in the foot, They nearly ****ed up the beef trade last years.
I spend foolishly now,, does that mean I profiteer on taxpayers money,

Danzy

wrangler wrote: »

I spend foolishly now,, does that mean I profiteer on taxpayers money,

The last 40 years have repeatedly shown yes you will profit off the taxpayer to make good mistakes or practices of a very dubious nature if you are a beef processing business.

Bass Reeves

Paunch
No I do not think 4.5 is realistic, but present prices are not sustainable either. We need a minimum base if 3.9/kg. And the price to vary from there up. That is where it was 4-5 years ago and there was less messing with weights and bulls than now. However suckling is not viable much below 4.5/kg. But lads BSing about 3/kg next year is not helpful either and negotiation has to start somewhere.

Straight
I do not think that dairy farmers should have to subsidize beef but a situation has been created where we have 1.5 million dairy cattle to be put through the system every year. Exports are only go to take so many. Panch has a dairy farm as well as beef. He has never answered what amount of calves he rests for his beef enterprise. There is only a minimal margin in beef at present prices it is not sustainable in present format.


Runwithme
If we have learned anything it's that more subsidizing is not the answer. Autumn born calving adds too much cost into the system and is not viable. As well it will only happen on the Suckler side and numbers would be limited. With carbon footprint it downsizing the Suckler herd we need.

Wrangler
The badgering of factories as you call it only started after the processor's started to drive price down last year and talked about 3.2-3.3/kg. Farmers drew a line in the sand. at 3.5. If processor's hat there way it would have been a lot worse. For all the BSing about market forces we are 150-200/head behind the UK all summer long this year. Processor and retailing interests will once again use Irish beef to pull price down

Jam
You are right Brexit is the great gift to retailers and processor's. 4-5 years ago beef was above 4/kg for half the year and was only at 3.7/kg for a few months in the autumn. Now it never hits 4/kg. The retailer/processor cartel has extracted 40-50c/kg out of the price for themselves.

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Paunch
No I do not think 4.5 is realistic, but present prices are not sustainable either. We need a minimum base if 3.9/kg. And the price to vary from there up. That is where it was 4-5 years ago and there was less messing with weights and bulls than now. However suckling is not viable much below 4.5/kg. But lads BSing about 3/kg next year is not helpful either and negotiation has to start somewhere.

Straight
I do not think that dairy farmers should have to subsidize beef but a situation has been created where we have 1.5 million dairy cattle to be put through the system every year. Exports are only go to take so many. Panch has a dairy farm as well as beef. He has never answered what amount of calves he rests for his beef enterprise. There is only a minimal margin in beef at present prices it is not sustainable in present format.


Runwithme
If we have learned anything it's that more subsidizing is not the answer. Autumn born calving adds too much cost into the system and is not viable. As well it will only happen on the Suckler side and numbers would be limited. With carbon footprint it downsizing the Suckler herd we need.

Wrangler
The badgering of factories as you call it only started after the processor's started to drive price down last year and talked about 3.2-3.3/kg. Farmers drew a line in the sand. at 3.5. If processor's hat there way it would have been a lot worse. For all the BSing about market forces we are 150-200/head behind the UK all summer long this year. Processor and retailing interests will once again use Irish beef to pull price down

Jam
You are right Brexit is the great gift to retailers and processor's. 4-5 years ago beef was above 4/kg for half the year and was only at 3.7/kg for a few months in the autumn. Now it never hits 4/kg. The retailer/processor cartel has extracted 40-50c/kg out of the price for themselves.

What question have i never answered?

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Paunch
No I do not think 4.5 is realistic, but present prices are not sustainable either. We need a minimum base if 3.9/kg. And the price to vary from there up. That is where it was 4-5 years ago and there was less messing with weights and bulls than now. However suckling is not viable much below 4.5/kg. But lads BSing about 3/kg next year is not helpful either and negotiation has to start somewhere.

Straight
I do not think that dairy farmers should have to subsidize beef but a situation has been created where we have 1.5 million dairy cattle to be put through the system every year. Exports are only go to take so many. Panch has a dairy farm as well as beef. He has never answered what amount of calves he rests for his beef enterprise. There is only a minimal margin in beef at present prices it is not sustainable in present format.


Runwithme
If we have learned anything it's that more subsidizing is not the answer. Autumn born calving adds too much cost into the system and is not viable. As well it will only happen on the Suckler side and numbers would be limited. With carbon footprint it downsizing the Suckler herd we need.

Wrangler
The badgering of factories as you call it only started after the processor's started to drive price down last year and talked about 3.2-3.3/kg. Farmers drew a line in the sand. at 3.5. If processor's hat there way it would have been a lot worse. For all the BSing about market forces we are 150-200/head behind the UK all summer long this year. Processor and retailing interests will once again use Irish beef to pull price down

Jam
You are right Brexit is the great gift to retailers and processor's. 4-5 years ago beef was above 4/kg for half the year and was only at 3.7/kg for a few months in the autumn. Now it never hits 4/kg. The retailer/processor cartel has extracted 40-50c/kg out of the price for themselves.

Do you not think its better to go into the meeting with realistic exceptions rather than telling/persuading people your going to get 4.50 and then even if you got 4 it would be seen as a defeat and probably rejected?

Look i agree that beef prices are too low and we should be getting 4 a kg, but what i want to get and the price that the market is willing to pay are 2 totally different things. Lets say factories paid a minimum of 4.50 kg - would we still be able to compete with Argentina or Uruguay on the world market? do we have reliable evidence that the global markets we are selling our beef into will pay 80 cent bonus for Irish meat?

There is no point in bringing up the Irish market - because it's irrelevant in the scheme of irish beef production

Panch18

One thing i will say is that there is a certain "fundamentalist" type of attitude with certain people in these organisations (this is from what i see on facepain as opposed to on here so not aimed at anybody here) - the Beef Plan, IFOI and whatever spawns that have come out of them.

From what i can see they are intent on getting their own agenda through to suit there own needs under the guise of helping all. They are like a communist party or something like that, not there to discuss or debate with any reason - god forbid if you disagree with them, there is no debate only mudslinging with "jibes" of being IFA man or Larry puppet or the likes. They have a huge disdain/hatred for dairy farmers as if the calves that dairy farmers produce don't make great beef, they are willing to write/tell absolute rubbish regarding Irish beef just to promote their own agenda or their own little "niche" product, even though what they are selling is exactly the same as nearly every other beef farmer in the country. They would say anything to run down someone else's product - be it from Ireland or anywhere else in the world.

a dangerous self serving crowd if ever i saw 1

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Paunch
No I do not think 4.5 is realistic, but present prices are not sustainable either. We need a minimum base if 3.9/kg. And the price to vary from there up. That is where it was 4-5 years ago and there was less messing with weights and bulls than now. However suckling is not viable much below 4.5/kg. But lads BSing about 3/kg next year is not helpful either and negotiation has to start somewhere.

Straight
I do not think that dairy farmers should have to subsidize beef but a situation has been created where we have 1.5 million dairy cattle to be put through the system every year. Exports are only go to take so many. Panch has a dairy farm as well as beef. He has never answered what amount of calves he rests for his beef enterprise. There is only a minimal margin in beef at present prices it is not sustainable in present format.


Runwithme
If we have learned anything it's that more subsidizing is not the answer. Autumn born calving adds too much cost into the system and is not viable. As well it will only happen on the Suckler side and numbers would be limited. With carbon footprint it downsizing the Suckler herd we need.

Wrangler
The badgering of factories as you call it only started after the processor's started to drive price down last year and talked about 3.2-3.3/kg. Farmers drew a line in the sand. at 3.5. If processor's hat there way it would have been a lot worse. For all the BSing about market forces we are 150-200/head behind the UK all summer long this year. Processor and retailing interests will once again use Irish beef to pull price down

Jam
You are right Brexit is the great gift to retailers and processor's. 4-5 years ago beef was above 4/kg for half the year and was only at 3.7/kg for a few months in the autumn. Now it never hits 4/kg. The retailer/processor cartel has extracted 40-50c/kg out of the price for themselves.

Subsidies isn't the right answer to the problem but unfortunately it's the only answer at the moment.
Talk of anything else is up there with the 4.50/kg. criticising IFA is alright but no organisation has done anything else worthwhile in all the kerfuffle

leoch

Yea wrangler but all other organisations dont have the factory government backing

jaymla627

Panch18 wrote: »

Do you not think its better to go into the meeting with realistic exceptions rather than telling/persuading people your going to get 4.50 and then even if you got 4 it would be seen as a defeat and probably rejected?

Look i agree that beef prices are too low and we should be getting 4 a kg, but what i want to get and the price that the market is willing to pay are 2 totally different things. Lets say factories paid a minimum of 4.50 kg - would we still be able to compete with Argentina or Uruguay on the world market? do we have reliable evidence that the global markets we are selling our beef into will pay 80 cent bonus for Irish meat?

There is no point in bringing up the Irish market - because it's irrelevant in the scheme of irish beef production

The biggest issue is in 2014 as a example brazilain beef price to the farmer was 8.0 Brazil real kgs (2.40 euro a kilo) today Brazil beef price is 20.49 real kgs (3.20 euro a kilo), they have experienced huge currency losses to the dollar and euro over 50% of a devaluation but farmers are receiving over double the price they where getting in 2014 while we are getting 20% less, been part of a 1st world economy as a primary food producer is a bad place to be at the moment as our governments actively encourage zero inflation while they hammer third world countries and make their currencies worthless

Danzy

jaymla627 wrote: »

The biggest issue is in 2014 as a example brazilain beef price to the farmer was 8.0 Brazil real kgs (2.40 euro a kilo) today Brazil beef price is 20.49 real kgs (3.20 euro a kilo), they have experienced huge currency losses to the dollar and euro over 50% of a devaluation but farmers are receiving over double the price they where getting in 2014 while we are getting 20% less, been part of a 1st world economy as a primary food producer is a bad place to be at the moment as our governments actively encourage zero inflation while they hammer third world countries and make their currencies worthless

It was Brazil's Brazil's Gov't who hammered their own currency.

wrangler

leoch wrote: »

Yea wrangler but all other organisations dont have the factory government backing

Why do you think that, is it because they don't abuse government departments or tell lies about them or even tell lies to them like Beef Plan do.
Do IFA look soft because they're not thugs