My unborn child is going to hell

Nodin

Ye get the vibe better if this is playing as ye look at the pic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsSGY22n8ZY

sbsquarepants

All unbaptized children go to Heaven when they die, Pope Benedict had finally declared

What about the millions that had already been sent to hell - do they get paroled?

Liamario

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What about the millions that had already been sent to hell - do they get paroled?

They're fooked. The devil won't give them back. So they're doomed to an eternity of punishing bad people for their crimes while also doing whatever the hell they want (like looking at hot naked women in showers).

Bare in mind as well that the new pope can re open the gates of purgatory on a whim!

Kidchameleon

The people here suggesting that the grandad should not be able to see the child for holding a religious belief are seriously taking the p*ss. That's just a savage thing to suggest.

(The grandad is being a tosser for being pushy though but he'll get over it)

Liamario

I suppose I should update as to the situation of things since my original post.

Fionn is perfectly healthy and loved by everyone. Typical mischievous boy and very happy.

Baptism was brought up a few times in the last 9 months, but at this point they've accepted that he isn't getting baptised.

I'm constantly finding that I'm the one who had the set the precedent in family with similar issues. In a lot of ways, my stance on things has opened up the table for debate and even my parents have accepted on some level that their position is maybe a little rocky and at the very least has some logical gaps.

So things have returned to a level of sanity and acceptance that it's 2013.

TwoShedsJackson

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The people here suggesting that the grandad should not be able to see the child for holding a religious belief are seriously taking the p*ss. That's just a savage thing to suggest.

(The grandad is being a tosser for being pushy though but he'll get over it)

You don't think what the granddad suggested in the OP is savage?

Kidchameleon

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

You don't think what the granddad suggested in the OP is savage?

Nope.

Its a completely meaningless ceremony to the OP and child. OP knows there is no such thing as hell. If someone told me I was going to hell I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I assume the OP would feel the same. So no, not a bit savage.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nope.

Its a completely meaningless ceremony to the OP and child. OP knows there is no such thing as hell. If someone told me I was going to hell I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I assume the OP would feel the same. So no, not a bit savage.

Have you considered that although the OP may find the ceremony meaningless to go through with it just cos 'ah sure, what's the harm..' is to perpetuate the cycle?

I think telling someone their child is going to spent eternity in torment is pretty savage - I'd have shown him the door personally and urged his quick exit through it.

And no - I did not baptise my son and as this did not happen in the early 80s I got a lot of the same crap, the same arguments, the same outrageous emotional blackmail - some 20 odd years later I got thanked by my son for standing firm.

Penn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nope.

Its a completely meaningless ceremony to the OP and child. OP knows there is no such thing as hell. If someone told me I was going to hell I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I assume the OP would feel the same. So no, not a bit savage.

Even when it was completely against the wishes of the parents? Meaningless ceremony or not, if I explicitly said I didn't want my parents to do something to my child and they did it anyway knowing how I felt, I'd have a serious problem with that, regardless of what it was. It would display a huge lack of respect towards my wishes as the parent, and would damage any trust I had in them for the future.

Meaningless ceremony? Agreed. Purposefully going against the wishes of the parent? That's something which has a significant meaning in the relationships between grandparents, parents and child.

Aquarius34

Liamario wrote: »

At least according to my tolerant, non-judgemental, catholic father.

All will be ok, as long as I get the child baptised (which is not going to happen).

But he said it to me like it was nothing; like it was a given or something.

I think he also implied that the child would get baptised whether I liked it or not.

I wanted to break his f**king jaw.

lmfao!!!! I am not laughing at you, I am laughing at the religious belief system. Oh that is hella funny. It just goes to show what fear can do to someone's mind.

professore

I don't see the issue, if that's what he believes, then that doesn't affect you. Since you don't believe in heaven or hell, so what?

He just has to get used to the idea.

sbsquarepants

Liamario wrote: »

They're fooked. The devil won't give them back. So they're doomed to an eternity of punishing bad people for their crimes while also doing whatever the hell they want (like looking at hot naked women in showers).

Sounds rough!

I'm a devout atheist, my missus wouldn't call herself an atheist but she also doesn't have any religious beliefs (fúcking women, always complicating shít!). My parents aren't in any way religious, her's are only short of whipping themselves daily to prove their devotion. The missus is due in roughly a week.
I'll most likely end up getting the kid christened - i don't see the point in stressing out and worrying the grand parents over something i consider to be meaningless. Why would i?
I know the "ceremony" does jack shít, ceremony, no ceremony - same thing. So why upset the granparents? They get peace of mind, and i get peace of ear, doesn't make any difference to the kid one way or the other. Everyones a winner.

Liamario

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Sounds rough!

I'm a devout atheist, my missus wouldn't call herself an atheist but she also doesn't have any religious beliefs (fúcking women, always complicating shít!). My parents aren't in any way religious, her's are only short of whipping themselves daily to prove their devotion. The missus is due in roughly a week.
I'll most likely end up getting the kid christened - i don't see the point in stressing out and worrying the grand parents over something i consider to be meaningless. Why would i?
I know the "ceremony" does jack shít, ceremony, no ceremony - same thing. So why upset the granparents? They get peace of mind, and i get peace of ear, doesn't make any difference to the kid one way or the other. Everyones a winner.

I understand your point of view. If I got him christened, I'd be a hypocrite. I'd have to make him have his communion and his confirmation. I'd be enabling the catholic church to have more influence on Irish society; and I'd expose Fionn to more religious indoctrination from the people around him.
Sure, he could go through all that and come out an atheist (and probably would); but there are bigger issues involved here. I have to make a stand for my son and not take the easy way out by keeping the indoctrination and threat of eternal damnation going.

sbsquarepants

I do agree with you, and i have made it clear that there will be absolutely no indoctrination permiitted at any stage. It's just a man in a nice frock splashing a bit of water around, that's as far as it goes!
Also i don't mean to worry you, but if you zoom in really close on that photo - i think you can see horns starting to grow!:D

Edit: But for the sake of the day, i get years of peace. Lazy way out? Absolutely. But i don't see any real harm to any party, especially the child.

Bannasidhe

Liamario wrote: »

I understand your point of view. If I got him christened, I'd be a hypocrite. I'd have to make him have his communion and his confirmation. I'd be enabling the catholic church to have more influence on Irish society; and I'd expose Fionn to more religious indoctrination from the people around him.
Sure, he could go through all that and come out an atheist (and probably would); but there are bigger issues involved here. I have to make a stand for my son and not take the easy way out by keeping the indoctrination and threat of eternal damnation going.

This ^^ is exactly how I felt nearly 30 years ago. It saddens me that we are in exactly the same 'ah sure' place now as were were then.

When all is said and done it was more important to me for my son to see me stand up for what I believe and thereby teach him to do likewise than to teach him to just accept 'that's the way things are' status quo.

It was quite simple as far as I was concerned - teach my son by example to stick by what one believes or to bend the knee and conform to what others believe for a quiet life. A no-brainer.

Liamario

Bannasidhe wrote: »

This ^^ is exactly how I felt nearly 30 years ago. It saddens me that we are in exactly the same 'ah sure' place now as were were then.

When all is said and done it was more important to me for my son to see me stand up for what I believe and thereby teach him to do likewise than to teach him to just accept 'that's the way things are' status quo.

It was quite simple as far as I was concerned - teach my son by example to stick by what one believes or to bend the knee and conform to what others believe for a quiet life. A no-brainer.

Exactly. Nice to know that I'm not alone

Liamario

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's just a man in a nice frock splashing a bit of water around, that's as far as it goes!

I hope you're right and that you follow through with it. Time will tell I guess.


Re: Horns
I only filed them down last week!!!! :mad:

robindch

professore wrote: »

Since you don't believe in heaven or hell, so what?

Not sure how bad Liamario has it, but extended family has Popette. During the christmas holidays, the following conversation took place one evening over dinner with my six-year old daughter:

Popette: If you don't make the right choices in this life, you will Burn.In.Hell in the next life.
Snowflake(looks at me, quizzically, shakes head, motions thumbs down): No?
Popette: Yes, you will.
Me, to snowflake: No, snowflake, you won't. Don't worry about what Popette is saying. It's not true.
Me, to Popette: That's not a very nice thing to say to my daughter. Please stop this line of conversation.
Popette: No, I want to tell her the Truth.
Me: That's your opinion and it's neither pleasant and it's certainly not true.
Popette: Now snowflake, your daddy is very stupid sometimes.
Me: You will be asked to leave the room if you don't stop this line of conversation immediately.
Popette: I refuse to be muzzled!

professore wrote: »

[...] that doesn't affect you.

The above certainly does :mad:

Bannasidhe

Liamario wrote: »

Re: Horns
I only filed them down last week!!!! :mad:

Introduce him to the world of beanie hats - it's the only way.

Liamario

robindch wrote: »

Not sure how bad Liamario has it, but extended family has Popette. During the christmas holidays, the following conversation took place one evening over dinner with my six-year old daughter:

Popette: If you don't make the right choices in this life, you will Burn.In.Hell in the next life.
Snowflake(looks at me, quizzically, shakes head, motions thumbs down): No?
Popette: Yes, you will.
Me, to snowflake: No, snowflake, you won't. Don't worry about what Popette is saying. It's not true.
Me, to Popette: That's not a very nice thing to say to my daughter. Please stop this line of conversation.
Popette: No, I want to tell her the Truth.
Me: That's your opinion and it's neither pleasant and it's certainly not true.
Popette: Now snowflake, your daddy is very stupid sometimes.
Me: You will be asked to leave the room if you don't stop this line of conversation immediately.
Popette: I refuse to be muzzled!
The above certainly does :mad:

That's ****. Luckily at this point at least, my parents know not to have that conversation with Fionn EVER. If they do, it will be nipped in the bud rapidly.

Tim Robbins

Liamario wrote: »

At least according to my tolerant, non-judgemental, catholic father.

All will be ok, as long as I get the child baptised (which is not going to happen).

But he said it to me like it was nothing; like it was a given or something.

I think he also implied that the child would get baptised whether I liked it or not.

I wanted to break his f**king jaw.

I would immediately point say something like the only people who believe such things are scientifically ignorant.

Liamario

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I would immediately point say something like the only people who believe such things are scientifically ignorant.

The man had a triple bypass about a decade ago. He thinks scientists know nothing. :rolleyes:

sbsquarepants

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It was quite simple as far as I was concerned - teach my son by example to stick by what one believes or to bend the knee and conform to what others believe for a quiet life. A no-brainer.

I agree with this also. I just feel the real battle is in the day to day rearing, not in vodoo rituals that the kid won't even remember. I could dig my heals in and cause a fuss - but it wouldn't benefit either me or the kid and would only worry the grandparents. I'm all for standing up for your beliefs - but what i believe is that this "ceremony" is completely irrelevant, so why bother fighting over an irrelevance? I personally wouldn't be bothered.

Dades

Liamario wrote: »

I understand your point of view. If I got him christened, I'd be a hypocrite. I'd have to make him have his communion and his confirmation. I'd be enabling the catholic church to have more influence on Irish society; and I'd expose Fionn to more religious indoctrination from the people around him.

That's not quite the case. He could be baptized and never again see the inside of a church. It's totally up to you how to raise and educate him after any head-wetting.

Just saying that baptism isn't necessarily the beginning of an inevitable journey.

robindch

Liamario wrote: »

Luckily at this point at least, my parents know not to have that conversation with Fionn EVER.

Lucky you

Liamario

Dades wrote: »

That's not quite the case. He could be baptized and never again see the inside of a church. It's totally up to you how to raise and educate him after any head-wetting.

Just saying that baptism isn't necessarily the beginning of an inevitable journey.

Of course not. That would be very dogmatic thinking.

It was important for me to make a stand now, than be pressurised at every religious event going forward.

PopePalpatine

kylith wrote: »

Well, isn't he just lovely?

I don't want to stir anything, but you might want to keep an eye out for him baptising the child on the sly.

Reminds me of an episode of Family Guy, where Peter's dad tries to baptise Stewie. :pac:

TwoShedsJackson

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nope.

Its a completely meaningless ceremony to the OP and child. OP knows there is no such thing as hell. If someone told me I was going to hell I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I assume the OP would feel the same. So no, not a bit savage.

You assume wrongly then, because she obviously did find it hurtful. And it was totally unnecessary - her Dad knows she isn't religious, she knows he is, so he should leave it at that, instead of saying something offensively judgmental.

And there lies a lot of the problem with the religious: it isn't enough for them to be religious and live their own lives, they have to try and tell others how wrong they are.

Bannasidhe

Well, if I had followed the path laid out for me by my parents I would be a heterosexual, married, secondary school teacher and a good Irish Catlick who uses contraception and only sets foot in a church when someone dies or is getting married (not so much the latter as all recent family weddings have been civil)...

Funnily enough they seem quite pleased with the way myself (who has officially defected from the RCC ) and unbaptised son have turned out - now they boast at family occasions about how much they admire they way we stand up for our principles...

Robin - how do you put up with Popette?

intellectual dosser

Wasnt this in an episode of Family Guy about Stewie.

I say everyone sit down, watch it, see the conclusions they come to......and forget this whole thing and have a laugh.