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My unborn child is going to hell
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Unfortunately, I know my father all to well. This wouldn't be dropped.
If I get the child baptised, then they would push communion and confirmation when they come around.
I am strongly against religion and I feel that if I was to allow this to happen, I would be compromising my own (non)beliefs and convictions.
I think this is going to be a case of me setting a precedent, in that not getting your child baptised isn't the end of the world.
It was only a few years ago, my parents thought it was disgraceful for couples to live together before getting married; now they feel the complete opposite.
It's time to make a stand I feel. Becoming an enabler for future generations of my family to be persecuted for not believing in fairy tales needs one person to make a stand.
You could say to him:
"I will not baptism my child into a religion that would send him/her to hell for not being baptised".0 -
Mark Hamill wrote: »You could say to him:
"I will not baptism my child into a religion that would send him/her to hell for not being baptised".
Was thinking the exact same thing at the time as well.
@Robinindch
I understand what you are saying, but it would still be compromising my own convictions. I've grown up with his rules, now he needs to realise that I have my own views. I shouldn't have to haggle with him and I won't. It's our child and we'll do what we feel is right; that is to let the child decide for itself when it's old enough.0 -
The implication of baptizing the child without your permission reminds me of the story of Edgardo Mortara. The child who was stolen from his Jewish parents by the pope because a housemaid gave the child an Emergency baptism when the child was sickly.
Baptism...serious business, back in the day;)
Anyway, best of luck OP0 -
This business of getting the child baptised on the sly.... is it possible to happen?
Would the priest not question where the parents were? Could he find himself in a world of **** for performing the baptism without parental consent?
I'm only wondering cos my own child is not baptised and would be fit to kill if someone took her off and baptised her behind my back
cue poor taste jokes about all sorts of things being performed on children without parental consent.0 -
This business of getting the child baptised on the sly.... is it possible to happen?
Would the priest not question where the parents were? Could he find himself in a world of **** for performing the baptism without parental consent?
I'm only wondering cos my own child is not baptised and would be fit to kill if someone took her off and baptised her behind my back
cue poor taste jokes about all sorts of things being performed on children without parental consent.
My son and myself were talking about this the other night. We agreed that if anyone had taken it upon themselves to baptise him that particular **** storm would still be going on - 27 years later.
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I'm not sure how helpful this will be in making a decision but my GF is catholic (well actually her views are christian but not in line with the RC church but she classes herself catholic). We've talked about what would happen if we had kids alot and it was a big bone of contention between us for a while.
Regarding baptism what we finally decided on was that we wouldn't get a formal baptism (i.e. church) but she could do an informal one herself. This satisifed me because one of my main gripes about it was that I wasn't going to lie to get it done and that I didn't want to give the church another "stat"
Maybe your father would be ok with something like that (if you are). But if you aren't and your father still wants to do a baptism it shows a great lack of respect fou you and your wishes0 -
Actually, is there a baptismal register where you can check if a baptism has been carried out.
All this talk has me concerned, probably unduly, that a baptism "on the sly" might have happened0 -
Yes, but (while I've no time for his convictions) you're also implying that he compromise his convictions -- so you end up with two sides unwilling to compromise and stalemate ensues.[...] it would still be compromising my own convictions.
If you reckon he'll back down peacefully, then do the necessary to help that happen, though he may well be subsequently cheesed off you made him do so and it may flare up again. Alternatively, if you reckon you can deal with stalemate and that he'll never try to baptize on the sly, then do try that, but be prepared for a Cold War which may go on for years. And be prepared for you to be endlessly suspicious of what he's up to anyway.
As above, I think the best way out of this is to negotiate, but as a screaming liberal, I'm bound to say that! Anyhow, you know your dad better than anybody here and if you know with complete confidence that he's not open to negotiation, or if you're not either, then simply drop the topic and do whatever you want. But do bear in mind that the religious have a tendency never to let this drop (see my story above) and you could be putting yourself at the greater risk of having to deal with this crap anyway, for years to come. Hence my recommendation that you compromise on one thing that makes no difference in the long run, in order to secure his compromise on something that does matter (no lecturing, posturing, cold-war, cold-shouldering, baptism-on-the-sly etc).
Of course, you could try going all legalistic and quote the Vatican's canon law at him:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2M.HTM
Specifically, canon 793 which says that "Parents [...] possess the right of educating their offspring" which is the closest I can find to the Vatican saying that right to baptize or not resides firstly with the parents. However, he's likely to get all jesuitical in return so maybe that's not a good idea.
Either way, best of luck. Hope it all pans out ok!0 -
Yes, but (while I've no time for his convictions) you're also implying that he compromise his convictions -- so you end up with two sides unwilling to compromise and stalemate ensues.
If you reckon he'll back down peacefully, then do the necessary to help that happen, though he may well be subsequently cheesed off you made him do so and it may flare up again. Alternatively, if you reckon you can deal with stalemate and that he'll never try to baptize on the sly, then do try that, but be prepared for a Cold War which may go on for years. And be prepared for you to be endlessly suspicious of what he's up to anyway.
As above, I think the best way out of this is to negotiate, but as a screaming liberal, I'm bound to say that! Anyhow, you know your dad better than anybody here and if you know with complete confidence that he's not open to negotiation, or if you're not either, then simply drop the topic and do whatever you want. But do bear in mind that the religious have a tendency never to let this drop (see my story above) and you could be putting yourself at the greater risk of having to deal with this crap anyway, for years to come. Hence my recommendation that you compromise on one thing that makes no difference in the long run, in order to secure his compromise on something that does matter (no lecturing, posturing, cold-war, cold-shouldering, baptism-on-the-sly etc).
Of course, you could try going all legalistic and quote the Vatican's canon law at him:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2M.HTM
Specifically, canon 793 which says that "Parents [...] possess the right of educating their offspring" which is the closest I can find to the Vatican saying that right to baptize or not resides firstly with the parents. However, he's likely to get all jesuitical in return so maybe that's not a good idea.
Either way, best of luck. Hope it all pans out ok!
I get where you are coming from - you ol liberal you! - but personally I would see it as an issue where compromise just isn't possible. It's an either the child is baptised (Grandfather's wishes being paramount) or child is not baptised (parent's wished being paramount).
Plus - Granddad, should his views be seen as taking precedence over those of Liamario and his wife, would probably view this as a complete victory - not a compromise. And sure as God did not make little green apples there would be another battle over communion..then confirmation... After all, he'd have won the first 'battle' and imposed his will - why would he not continue to believe his will should be obeyed in the future?0 -
Yes, but (while I've no time for his convictions) you're also implying that he compromise his convictions -- so you end up with two sides unwilling to compromise and stalemate ensues.
Another way of looking at this is that the grandfather showed his convictions by baptising his child (i.e. the OP), while the OP is showing their convictions by not baptising their child. So therefore nobody is compromising anything as the grandfather has had his say and it's now the OP's convictions on show.
To the OP you could also quote the recent article by one of the bishops about not going through with religious ceremonies if you aren't religious.0 -
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Yes, but as above, the dad has to compromise on his probable wishes to interfere continually on the topic. Now, perhaps he'll never compromise on this, or if he says he will, perhaps he'll ignore his promise. Who knows? But a solemn word, an eye-to-eye handshake from both parties might help. If no compromise is reached, then it's possible that the dad will take it personally and go into a years-long sulk. Heaven knows, it's happened in my family and it's miserable (the religious idiot concerned was unwilling to compromise on anything; hence the parents were, hence cold-war ensued).Bannasidhe wrote: »It's an either the child is baptised (Grandfather's wishes being paramount) or child is not baptised (parent's wished being paramount).
All I'm saying is, from a cold, cynical political perspective, the dad's damnable requirement that the child is baptized can be use against him for what might be the long-term benefit of all -- ie, no long-term religious interference, no cold-shouldering etc.
Would any religious who are reading this care to comment?0 -
Yes, but despite that, the dad might still choose to spend the rest of his life moaning about it and that's not being taken into account by anybody at this point.[...] it's now the OP's convictions on show.
Good thinking -- certainly worth a shot!To the OP you could also quote the recent article by one of the bishops about not going through with religious ceremonies if you aren't religious.0 -
Yes, but despite that, the dad might still choose to spend the rest of his life moaning about it and that's not being taken into account by anybody at this point
I see what you're saying but should 1 persons moaning be taken into account over 2 peoples convictions (assuming the OPs partner is the same).
You've acknowledged it yourself but if the OP's father gets his way on this he might see it as a way to get his way on communion, confirmation or even other things that will effect the OP.0 -
Yes, but (while I've no time for his convictions) you're also implying that he compromise his convictions -- so you end up with two sides unwilling to compromise and stalemate ensues.
No you don't. You end up with the only side exercising it's right to make a decision about how to raise it's child and a man with his nose out of joint for trying to stick it somewhere it had no right to be. The child is Liamario's, his father has no right whatsoever to have any involvement in this decision.0 -
Yes, but despite that, the dad might still choose to spend the rest of his life moaning about it and that's not being taken into account by anybody at this point.Good thinking -- certainly worth a shot!
Let's change the scenario a bit for the sake of argument - were Liamario gay, his Dad could consider that to be a 'sin' for which Liamario would go to hell. Should Liamario therefore compromise by hiding out in the closet or going the 'love the sinner/hate the sin' celibacy route to stop his Dad moaning and getting upset?0 -
That's for the OP + SO to figure out; if the OP's dad lives in the next street, then it's worth considering; if he's in a distant country, then less so.I see what you're saying but should 1 persons moaning be taken into account over 2 peoples convictions (assuming the OPs partner is the same).
But having seen the effect first-hand of 30-odd years of guilt-tripping, cold-shouldering and other antisocial carry-on, I can tell you that the chances that the moaning will never stop should be taken into account and so far, they doesn't seem to be.
You're missing that I suggested that the deal is that the OP concedes on the baptism in return for the dad conceding on everything religious after the baptism. See this post.You've acknowledged it yourself but if the OP's father gets his way on this he might see it as a way to get his way on communion, confirmation or even other things that will effect the OP.
Nope, the father certainly doesn't. However, as above many times, the father is within his perceived rights to make a pain in the ass of himself, possibly for years to come. Is that worth twenty minutes in a church to carry out some banal, meaningless religious ritual? I think the offer should at least be debated between the OP and his missus.You end up with the only side exercising it's right to make a decision about how to raise it's child and a man with his nose out of joint for trying to stick it somewhere it had no right to be. The child is Liamario's, his father has no right whatsoever to have any involvement in this decision.
The same goes for access to schools -- I'd have no hesitation in having my kid baptized if it were necessary for her education. Yes, the system is corrupt and rotten, and if I'd had to do it, I'd have done it with gritted teeth, then at some safe distance, made my views publicly, and very loudly, clear. Is that sacrificing my principles? Not really, since the greater principle for me is that I should ensure my kid gets an education.
In general no, but one (magnificently) gay friend of mine did choose not to tell his sole surviving parent, his dad, since his dad was elderly, my friend lived in different country from his dad, and his dad would have been terribly unhappy, since he was quite homophobic. His dad went to his grave without ever finding out. Sad, but it probably made things less troublesome than they probably would have been. As for your Liamario hypothetical, I'd say mention it in passing if the parents are receptive, and don't arrive home with the bf unless invited. But if they're raving principle-glued homophobes, then just don't bother.Bannasidhe wrote: »Let's change the scenario a bit for the sake of argument - were Liamario gay, his Dad could consider that to be a 'sin' for which Liamario would go to hell. Should Liamario therefore compromise by hiding out in the closet or going the 'love the sinner/hate the sin' celibacy route to stop his Dad moaning and getting upset?
And, well, here's an example from my own extended family -- hey, things are fun chez nous when immediate family, first and second cousins get together! -- following on from the story earlier on in this post, Mary's mum has a strict rule that unmarried couples can't share a bed in the mum's house. No exceptions, at least for people younger than her. So Mary's younger sister, Lena, turns up at home a few years back with her bf at the time, hoping to kip together in the same room. Parents say no; Lena is unhappy; parents stick to their guns; Lena goes ballistic; parents go ballistic; words are exchanged; Lena's bf no doubt facepalms; Lena and bf spend the night in a guesthouse. Years later, even without a bf, Lena won't stay at her parents house and so far as I can figure out from a distance, her parents don't seem to want her to. Are things as good as they could be, or would they be better if everybody was prepared to compromise a little? I would say they could be better, but I do accept that others will disagree, claiming that principles are more important than the society they produce.0 -
My sister and her friend decided to 'baptise' my children on the quiet and told me after a few drinks one night. They are dying to get their hands on son no 2. I just laughed it off, let them mumble their mumbo jumbo over the children's heads and splash the magic water on. As long as they did not sign them up officially I am fine with it.
I told them they can work away, and I will ask my pentecostal christian, Hindu, Jewish and Muslim friends to have a go too, why not? good wishes from all comers are welcome, as far as i am concerned.
No one has asked us more then once about baptising as they know where we stand.0 -
Are you really suggesting that the OP actually give in to an unjustified tantrum. That sort of behaviour would set him up to be a right rotten parent.But having seen the effect first-hand of 30-odd years of guilt-tripping, cold-shouldering and other antisocial carry-on, I can tell you that the chances that the moaning will never stop should be taken into account and so far, they doesn't seem to be.You're missing that I suggested that the deal is that the OP concedes on the baptism in return for the dad conceding on everything religious after the baptism.
No I'm not, I just don't think it's something that the OP should ever, ever negotiate on with anybody other than the child's mother. The parenting of child is 100% their domain (within the law). Anyone who thinks otherwise need a swift reality check, not pandering to.0 -
Nope. As above, I'm suggesting that the the OP and his missus debate whether they're prepared to cut a deal in order to prevent what could be twenty year's worth of something that's anywhere from benign or feigned indifference, to cold-shouldering, through to petulant, red-faced foot-stamping.Are you really suggesting that the OP actually give in to an unjustified tantrum.
I've seen all of these happen; religious people are prepared to do it; it's exacerbated by equally principled, but opposite, stances; the firmer the principled stance, the more shrill the opposing whine; it ain't pretty and it sure as hell ain't fun for anybody concerned. And these things need to be weighed.
Are religious people on a mission, in your experience, open to reality checks?Anyone who thinks otherwise need a swift reality check, not pandering to.0 -
Nope. As above, I'm suggesting that the the OP and his missus debate whether they're prepared to cut a deal in order to prevent what could be twenty year's worth of something that's anywhere from benign or feigned indifference, to cold-shouldering, through to petulant, red-faced foot-stamping.
Exactly a tantrum, which should be ignored, otherwise you are just teaching people that unacceptable behaviour will be rewarded.Are religious people on a mission, in your experience, open to reality checks?
While I do know a small amount of fundamentalists who are, as you say, on a mission. The vast amount of religious people I've encountered are mostly doing what they grew up thinking was the done thing. I remember my grandmother practically in tears at the thought that my uncle and his girlfriend were having premarital sex back in the 80s, she was so worried about his soul. But when I moved in with my boyfriend 11 years later I got no more from her than a happy send off. Not baptising your child is still so unusual an idea to people of a certain generation that it's almost unthinkable and can be very scary. As more and more people refuse to baptise their children it will become more common and 10-20 years from now most of the same people who are throwing tantrums about it will just accept it.0 -
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does anyone know if it is possible for a child to be 'officially baptised' without their parents consent?
my next door neighbour is going to lie to get her son into the local school, not only say she is catholic but also say he is baptised. the community creche leader told her to do it, but she comes from a 'god is good' pov and delights in teaching prayers to the pre-school children in a community creche, with no religious ethos explicitly listed, grrrr.
anyway back on topic, as i find most catholics, no matter how a-la-carte, dont believe in atheists or that an atheist pov is really real, perhaps your dad thinks you will come around to his way of thinking?
Catholics generally have no concept of what would jesus do, irish ones anyway, he is not really the driver. IMHO
the driver for most of them is the day out and then the rest of them, as the op says, and the keeping face etc.
perhaps a naming ceremony, where the grandad can give his little prayer and sprinkle, thereby fulfilling his spiritual need but not the official one, would suffice for him? if not then it really is the days out he is after and i thank all the gods i dont believe in that i did not have one of those parents.0 -
does anyone know if it is possible for a child to be 'officially baptised' without their parents consent?
Well, of course, anybody who can get close enough to the child can pour water over its head, and say whatever they like when they are doing so.
But “officially” baptized as in church, priest, certificates, the works? Generally not. The Catholic church will generally only baptize a child on the request of the parents/guardians, and even then only if they are satisfied that they intend to raise the child in the Catholic faith.
my next door neighbour is going to lie to get her son into the local school, not only say she is catholic but also say he is baptised.
She may have a problem. The school may expect her to produce a certificate of baptism from the church which baptized the child.
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Considering that you are signing your child up (without their permission) to a cult that will never let you leave, it will make a difference to your child.
Stick to your guns Liamario, you're father will get over it.
Bit overly dramatic don't you think?
I don't know your circumstances, but i was baptised into this cult and i left with out any problem whatsoever. You just stop showing up and no one comes looking for you (just like Sean Gallagher did with Fianna Fail:D)
A lot of people here seem to be imbuing baptism with some sort of magical powers, surely to an atheist it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether someone is baptised or not. A man in a nice frock says a few words and splashes a bit of water - nothing happens, the world goes on.
If you don't want to get it done, then by all means don't - I just personaly think it's a ridiculous thing to fall out with your family over. Some battles are worth the effort to fight, some just aren't. This is trivial and will have zero negative impact on your kid in the long run, in fact it may even make things easier as has been noted (schools and so on) You are absolutely not locked into some cult with no hope of escape, if your name pops up on a list somewhere, so what? I'm sure your name is on a thousand lists. It only has the importance you ascribe it, and i think you're giving it a lot more importance than it deserves. I can write in my diary here that you're a hindu, it doesnt make you one!0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Bit overly dramatic don't you think?
I don't know your circumstances, but i was baptised into this cult and i left with out any problem whatsoever. You just stop showing up and no one comes looking for you (just like Sean Gallagher did with Fianna Fail:D)
A lot of people here seem to be imbuing baptism with some sort of magical powers, surely to an atheist it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether someone is baptised or not. A man in a nice frock says a few words and splashes a bit of water - nothing happens, the world goes on.
If you don't want to get it done, then by all means don't - I just personaly think it's a ridiculous thing to fall out with your family over. Some battles are worth the effort to fight, some just aren't. This is trivial and will have zero negative impact on your kid in the long run, in fact it may even make things easier as has been noted (schools and so on) You are absolutely not locked into some cult with no hope of escape, if your name pops up on a list somewhere, so what? I'm sure your name is on a thousand lists. It only has the importance you ascribe it, and i think you're giving it a lot more importance than it deserves. I can write in my diary here that you're a hindu, it doesnt make you one!
So basically, you think it's ok to lie to your parents, lie to the Catholic church, then lie to the school?
Not a great start to a kids life.0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Bit overly dramatic don't you think?
I don't know your circumstances, but i was baptised into this cult and i left with out any problem whatsoever.
You haven't left though.
You are still counted in their stats.
As far as they are concerned, you are one of theirs until the day you die.
As for the OP's father, he will get over it.
There have been some things that my parents would have had near heart attacks about 25 years ago with regards to their daughters. (eg-living in sin and having babies outside wedlock).
But each of us just went ahead and did what they disproved of anyway.
Eventually the parents would come around. Now a days they hardly bat an eyelid and keep their opinions to themselves.
It is possible to teach your parents to be more accepting and that's not a bad thing.0 -
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Doctor DooM wrote: »So basically, you think it's ok to lie to your parents, lie to the Catholic church, then lie to the school?
Not a great start to a kids life.
I'm not suggesting the kid be raised as a devout fundamentalist christian, i'm just saying a splash of water is just splash of water. Whatever significance the op's father, the op herself, or the church places in it, is not one i share. Being baptised does not make you a catholic anymore than buying an internet degree makes you a doctor. If it takes a little white lie or a bit of compromise to grease the wheels of family life, then so be it. What's the harm?You haven't left though.
You are still counted in their stats.
As far as they are concerned, you are one of theirs until the day you die.
As for the OP's father, he will get over it.
There have been some things that my parents would have had near heart attacks about 25 years ago with regards to their daughters. (eg-living in sin and having babies outside wedlock).
But each of us just went ahead and did what they disproved of anyway.
Eventually the parents would come around. Now a days they hardly bat an eyelid and keep their opinions to themselves.
It is possible to teach your parents to be more accepting and that's not a bad thing.
I don't care about their stats. I know who and what i am, i don't particularly care about what others think. It's like people putting jedi or pastafarian on the census form. It doesn't matter what the stats say, you aren't a jedi!
Maybe i'm just lucky enough to come from a family where we don't fight, my parents know i'm an atheist, they don't care - they aren't religious themselves. My girlfriends parents are devout catholics, they know i'm an atheist - they don't care either, well - they probably say a few prayers for me and so on but they don't try to convert me, i don't try to convert them. If we were to have a child, it would be a cause of untold worry and heartache to them, if the kid wasn't christened. I don't care either way, so why worry them is the way i look at it. They get to do their voodoo and sleep soundly at night, safe in the knowledge they're going upstairs to party with the big man when the time comes, and i get to live in a conflict free environment, they kid doesn't even know whats happening. Everyones a winner.
No?0 -
1. you may be happy to life like that, and you are not alone, but thankfully the op and many others, like me, are not. Why thankfully? because without people to stand up to the status quo in this country there would not be an educate together option in schooling, there would still be Magdalene laundries and all sorts of other crap happening here.sbsquarepants wrote: »I don't care about their stats. I know who and what i am, i don't particularly care about what others think. It's like people putting jedi or pastafarian on the census form. It doesn't matter what the stats say, you aren't a jedi!
Maybe i'm just lucky enough to come from a family where we don't fight, my parents know i'm an atheist, they don't care - they aren't religious themselves. My girlfriends parents are devout catholics, they know i'm an atheist - they don't care either, well - they probably say a few prayers for me and so on but they don't try to convert me, i don't try to convert them. If we were to have a child, it would be a cause of untold worry and heartache to them, if the kid wasn't christened. I don't care either way, so why worry them is the way i look at it. They get to do their voodoo and sleep soundly at night, safe in the knowledge they're going upstairs to party with the big man when the time comes, and i get to live in a conflict free environment, they kid doesn't even know whats happening. Everyones a winner.
No?
2. family harmony at the price of one family member's conscience is not harmony, it is bullying.
3. thankfully we are all different as the world would be a boring place if we were all the same.
4. kid does not know now, but will know in the future and no matter what you say being counted in their stats grates at me.
Finally, if their stats did not matter so much then count me out would still be operational and opting out would be no harder then getting in (sprinkle of magic water, and are you sure? sign here and good bye). they want their numbers and they want to trade on your name, if you are happy for them to do that then good for you, I am not and my opinion is as valid as yours.0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »I'm not suggesting the kid be raised as a devout fundamentalist christian, i'm just saying a splash of water is just splash of water. Whatever significance the op's father, the op herself, or the church places in it, is not one i share. Being baptised does not make you a catholic anymore than buying an internet degree makes you a doctor. If it takes a little white lie or a bit of compromise to grease the wheels of family life, then so be it. What's the harm?
I don't care about their stats. I know who and what i am, i don't particularly care about what others think. It's like people putting jedi or pastafarian on the census form. It doesn't matter what the stats say, you aren't a jedi!
Maybe i'm just lucky enough to come from a family where we don't fight, my parents know i'm an atheist, they don't care - they aren't religious themselves. My girlfriends parents are devout catholics, they know i'm an atheist - they don't care either, well - they probably say a few prayers for me and so on but they don't try to convert me, i don't try to convert them. If we were to have a child, it would be a cause of untold worry and heartache to them, if the kid wasn't christened. I don't care either way, so why worry them is the way i look at it. They get to do their voodoo and sleep soundly at night, safe in the knowledge they're going upstairs to party with the big man when the time comes, and i get to live in a conflict free environment, they kid doesn't even know whats happening. Everyones a winner.
No?
Well- no.
The Catholic church in Ireland often attempt to use the number of people baptised in order to influence official matters.
People argue they don't sometimes, but I've read them claiming 85% of Ireland is Catholic, so I don't see how they're not. To be honest, they're delibrately nebulous in general about admitting either way.
You don't care about statistics, but the government does, and what they do affects me and you. Our children have historically had time in school wasted on religion they don't care about or worse, they become indoctrinated because they don't hear of the alternatives. So everyone- except the Catholic church and its devout followers- are hurt.
I also find it quite astounding that you consider it perfectly fine to tell all those little white lies about something as precious as the raising of your child. Surely not a good starting point.0 -
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Does it mean that the Church "Heaven claims" all the children in the world who have not been baptised (Muslim, Hindu, atheist, Jedi etc) or just unbaptised children of Catholic parents?
Yes, as far as they are concerned thier god created the planet and all the humans on it and gave them all thier soul and those who do not become christian are ungrateful and wrong.It's not that he has put doubt to my conviction, it's that he would say that to me about a grandchild. I am disgusted and angry at the hypocracy and venom from a so called christian.
I had that said to me by my parents at the time, by the father's parents, I had grand parents on both sides, I even had an aunt say that I should be shunned from the family until the children were baptised. There was the you are upsetting people, there are novenas being said for the sake of the kids and that I would be denying family the comforts of a 'proper' funeral if my kids were to die.
And then how I would be bring my kids up to be 'strange' and 'different' as they would not be making communion and confirmation and that I would be denying them the chance to 'fit in' properly and make friends.
I get that it came as a shock but it's not likely to be the last conversation you will have about this, at least now you can steel yourself against it.
Oh and according to doctrine anyone who has been confirmed can in extenuating circumstances baptise so be wary also, may be no harm to let the parish that he is a member of know you do not want under any circumstance want the child baptised.
I know someone who went away for the weekend and left the 6 month old with the grand parents to be told some weeks later by a neighbour that the christening was a lovely affair and it was a shame her and her husband had been sick with a vomiting bug but that the grandparents managed well with out them.0
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