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Shannon airport
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Deleted User wrote: »Yes but how long do you think taxpayers will continue to bail out the small regional airport that is SNN for their customers convenience.
Small regional airport????? SMALL REGIONAL AIRPORT??????
Longest runway in the country, large modern terminal, capable of handling millions of passengers in the year, transatlantic flights, large number of European destinations, 40 check in desks, and just under 40 aircraft parking stands, car parks that can accommodate over 5000 vehicles, site of national air traffic control service. Cargo and maintenance services available.
Shannon is an international airport, which yes, has seen better days, but it is still an international airport, Waterford, Knock and Galway are regional airports, Dublin, Cork and Shannon are international airports.
If varadker allows Shannon to split from the DAA which is what is being pushed forward at the moment then there will be massive changes, and with the autonomy will come increased services, and some new life in the airport.0 -
Small regional airport????? SMALL REGIONAL AIRPORT??????
Longest runway in the country, large modern terminal, capable of handling millions of passengers in the year, transatlantic flights, large number of European destinations, 40 check in desks, and just under 40 aircraft parking stands, car parks that can accommodate over 5000 vehicles, site of national air traffic control service. Cargo and maintenance services available.
Shannon is an international airport, which yes, has seen better days, but it is still an international airport, Waterford, Knock and Galway are regional airports, Dublin, Cork and Shannon are international airports.
If varadker allows Shannon to split from the DAA which is what is being pushed forward at the moment then there will be massive changes, and with the autonomy will come increased services, and some new life in the airport.
It has less routes than Knock airport which is another small regional airport, it has a mere 1.6 million passengers, Its now a small regional airport serving Limerick with lots of underused buildings and spare check in desks. Live with it.... Maybe if the population of Limerick doubled it could be more, population simply isn't there for it to be anything else:D
Anyway Source your only 2 hrs from DUB the only true international airport in the country. And if you want a good selection of UK or european regional flights Knock is just up the road...0 -
Deleted User wrote: »It has less routes than Knock airport which is another small regional airport, it has a mere 1.6 million passengers, Its now a small regional airport serving Limerick with lots of underused buildings. Live with it.... Maybe if the population of Limerick increased by a few million it could be more, population simply isn't there for it to be anything else:D
Hmmmmm lets see,
Your beloved Knock's passenger numbers in 2011: 654,533
Shannon Passenger Numbers 2011: 1,655,885
Shannnon Routes: Pax 39, Cargo 5
Knock Routes: Pax 22 Cargo 0
As I've already said in this thread, Shannon has a large catchment area with a population of approximately 700,00. The population is there in the immediate area, and it also caters for a large tourism area, It's perfectly located in the middle of the MidWest area for the west Clare coast, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, North Cork, and North and West Kerry. (no more than an hour and a half from any of these)
Also it's worth noting that the term international airport does not refer to the population it serves, rather the ability of the airport to handle international and inter-continental flights. They usually have larger terminals than regional airports and longer runways. Both of which Shannon has.0 -
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Hmmmmm lets see,
Your beloved Knock's passenger numbers in 2011: 654,533
Shannon Passenger Numbers 2011: 1,655,885
Shannnon Routes: Pax 39, Cargo 5
Knock Routes: Pax 22 Cargo 0
As I've already said in this thread, Shannon has a large catchment area with a population of approximately 700,00. The population is there in the immediate area, and it also caters for a large tourism area, It's perfectly located in the middle of the MidWest area for the west Clare coast, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, North Cork, and North and West Kerry. (no more than an hour and a half from any of these)
Also it's worth noting that the term international airport does not refer to the population it serves, rather the ability of the airport to handle international and inter-continental flights. They usually have larger terminals than regional airports and longer runways. Both of which Shannon has.
Your figures are a complete joke, even on SNN owns website they only have 20 passenger destinations and 10 in the winter the rest are charter. Knock has alot more than that, if you are adding charter flights you could also do the same to knock.
http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/plan-your-trip/book-a-flight.aspx
You may say that SNN has a 700K catchment area, except Knock takes Galway customers and Kerry and Cork airports are also taking SNN customers from Limerick, Tipp, Kerry and Cork.
Regarding cargo, maybe you fly by cargo but i dont know of any other passengers that do!!
Regarding "international airports" Knock also did flights to the USA but flyglobespan went bust, does that make it an international airport, NO. An international airport is one that has regular routes worldwide not 3 transatlantic flights like SNN. Like it or not SNN is now a regional airport, call it a big massive international airport if it makes you feel better. Once you start to run it like the regional airport it is you can start reducing costs and maybe get Ryanair to start using it again.
You Limerick people really are precious about SNN, why d'ont ye just support it more. It may stand a chance then. Or will you will have no problems with SNN customers covering the 100 million debt and the yearly deficits that SNN has ??0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Your figures are a complete joke, even on SNN owns website they only have 25 passenger destinations. Knock has more than that, if you are adding charter flights you could also do the same to knock.
You may say that SNN has a 700K catchment area, except Knock takes Galway customers and Kerry and Cork airports are also taking SNN customers from Limerick, Tipp, Kerry and Cork.
Regarding cargo, maybe you fly by cargo but i dont know of any other passengers that do!!
Regarding "international airports" Knock also did flights to the USA but flyglobespan went bust, does that make it an international airport, NO. An international airport is one that has regular routes worldwide not 3 transatlantic flights like SNN. Like it or not SNN is now a regional airport, call it a big massive international airport if it makes you feel better. Once you start to run it like the regional airport it is you can start reducing costs and maybe get Ryanair to start using it again.
You Limerick people really are precious about SNN, why d'ont ye just support it more. It may stand a chance then. Or will you will have no problems with SNN customers covering the 100 million debt and the yearly deficits that SNN has ??
To be as pedantic as you are, international is defined as "Existing, occurring, or carried on between two or more nations"- Ireland and the USA are two different nations, so yes that is International travel. You are incorrect.0 -
highlydebased wrote: »To be as pedantic as you are, international is defined as "Existing, occurring, or carried on between two or more nations"- Ireland and the USA are two different nations, so yes that is International travel. You are incorrect.
I think you are purposely missing the point. A country this size and with such a small population the government should be concentrating their efforts on DUB airport to provide a good quality of service for the whole country for global travel from that airport.
If the regions have a customer base large enough to run an airport then let it be, but not at taxpayer cost. Trying by some here to lump SNN into the same category as DUB is a joke. SNN is in the same category as KNock and Cork and if trends continue Knock will surpass SNN passenger numbers within 5 years. They all have similar route amounts as well. SNN Cork and Kerry in the one region will along with good road links from Limerick to DUB will continue to cause problems for SNN.
Just because it has an new empty terminal or loads of spare check in desks does not put it in the same category as DUB, its expansion was obviously another waste of money. SNN's time as an important airport has come and gone. Unfortunately the "locals" and workers think that SNN should have the same level of service as DUB so instead of running the airport like a small airport they continue to run it as a big airport with small airport passenger levels. This does not effect them as the taxpayer continues to make up the shortfall. Calling SNN an international airport does not make this financial shortfall any smaller
If the Airport looked at itself and realised it is no way close the size or customer base of DUB then with adequate restructuring it maybe able to run itself on budget. Knock can only run on budget because it realises its
place as a small regional airport by charging a development fee for each passenger and remaining closed for 12 hrs a day, therefore reducing wages and consumption costs.This makes it a low cost sustainable airport and obviously increasingly attractive to airlines. SNN cannot on an ever decreasing 1.6 million passengers remain all things to all people. Some here need to come of their high parochial high horse and realise that.0 -
yawn yawn wait till ryanair shaft knock when its no longer getting a deal when knock get greedy.under new management shannon will wipe the floor with knock0
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Deleted User wrote: »I think you are purposely missing the point. A country this size and with such a small population the government should be concentrating their efforts on DUB airport to provide a good quality of service for the whole country for global travel from that airport.
If the regions have a customer base large enough to run an airport then let it be, but not at taxpayer cost. Trying by some here to lump SNN into the same category as DUB is a joke. SNN is in the same category as KNock and Cork and if trends continue Knock will surpass SNN passenger numbers within 5 years. They all have similar route amounts as well. SNN Cork and Kerry in the one region will along with good road links from Limerick to DUB will continue to cause problems for SNN.
Just because it has an new empty terminal or loads of spare check in desks does not put it in the same category as DUB, its expansion was obviously another waste of money. SNN's time as an important airport has come and gone. Unfortunately the "locals" and workers think that SNN should have the same level of service as DUB so instead of running the airport like a small airport they continue to run it as a big airport with small airport passenger levels. This does not effect them as the taxpayer continues to make up the shortfall. Calling SNN an international airport does not make this financial shortfall any smaller
If the Airport looked at itself and realised it is no way close the size or customer base of DUB then with adequate restructuring it maybe able to run itself on budget. Knock can only run on budget because it realises its
place as a small regional airport by charging a development fee for each passenger and remaining closed for 12 hrs a day, therefore reducing wages and consumption costs.This makes it a low cost sustainable airport and obviously increasingly attractive to airlines. SNN cannot on an ever decreasing 1.6 million passengers remain all things to all people. Some here need to come of their high parochial high horse and realise that.
I think that is the most condescending line Ive ever seen wrote on Boards
I think Shannon needs to split from the DAA to utilise the facilities it has for SHANNON itself. Shannon has in the past been a good airport and I believe it can again in the future under the right managment.
If Shannon sometime in the future regains passenger numbers at the expense of Knock then TOUGH. Thats business. Some goes vice versa.0 -
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Undercover FBI Agent wrote: »
I think Shannon needs to split from the DAA to utilise the facilities it has for SHANNON itself. Shannon has in the past been a good airport and I believe it can again in the future under the right managment.
If Shannon sometime in the future regains passenger numbers at the expense of Knock then TOUGH. Thats business. Some goes vice versa.
I agree totally with you here, the sooner the better. These regional airports should be all fighting for business with the customers paying the cost not the taxpayer. Regional airports still have a role, they just need to be efficient to stay alive.
For some of the SNN blinkered posters here, what i said couldn't be more true. There nonsensical attacks on boards to those with opposing views and sense of entitlement at tax payer expense is shocking. They think having an airport on their doorstep is something everyone is born with, when in reality its a luxury that has to be paid for especially in a bankrupt country like this.Undercover FBI Agent wrote: »I think that is the most condescending line Ive ever seen wrote on Boards0 -
yawn yawn wait till ryanair shaft knock when its no longer getting a deal when knock get greedy.under new management shannon will wipe the floor with knock
If it happens so be it and with their resources it should of already happened, but even if the levy was doubled to 20 euros to keep Ryanair it would be still worthwhile for most of their customers. It costs 50 euro in petrol to travel return to shannon from here and more to Dublin, obviously its much higher the further North you go.
Thats why i don't get why the SNN posters here get so Aggrieved with the thought of a passenger levy to keep the airport operational. 10 euro's in petrol will get you no where. If they had already introduced that in SNN Ryanair would likely still be there and passenger numbers much higher. With SNN in private hands and the taxpayer no longer subsidising flights i can see it introduced with Maybe Easyjet introducing new routes subsidised by this levy. At least that way the person who uses the airport pays for the airport, not the person at home who is scraping by to pay a mortgage and can't afford to fly.0 -
Ireland West are projecting 725,000 this year, and with the most obvious UK and European destinations now served, it's not clear how some are predicting they will suddenly double numbers to pass Shannon unless they have new hub connections and US routes waiting in the wings. I'm sure they can pass the 1m mark in the coming years if Ryanair and FlyBe continue to grow routes and the economy continues to recover.
But Varadkars comments on Knock surpassing Shannon may just aimed at focusing minds as he approached the decision on it's future plan. Shannon's traffic decline should stabilised this year around 1.5m mark with Aer Lingus Regional established on lost UK routes (at lower capacity) and some new charter business. The US network remains mostly the same. The loss of 250000+ troops would be the biggest threat to numbers and income at the moment I'd imagine along with the general debt / cost base.0 -
Deleted User wrote:I think you are purposely missing the point.
Quite interesting, as you are quite clearly missing the point by denying the truth and posting a load of crap.Deleted User wrote: »I agree totally with you here, the sooner the better. These regional airports should be all fighting for business with the customers paying the cost not the taxpayer. Regional airports still have a role, they just need to be efficient to stay alive.
For some of the SNN blinkered posters here, what i said couldn't be more true. There nonsensical attacks on boards to those with opposing views and sense of entitlement at tax payer expense is shocking. They think having an airport on their doorstep is something everyone is born with, when in reality its a luxury that has to be paid for especially in a bankrupt country like this.
YOU good sir are the one launching nonsensical attacks on Boards.
YOU are the one who has labelled anybody who does not agree with your crackpot point of view as "blinkered" and "parochial".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a Mayo brigade harp on for years and years on how the "west needs" a railway running from a one horse town to another. Now they have a few routes from an airport on a hill and apparently they are reveling in the chance for Knock to become the next Heathrow.
I have absolutely no interest in "standing up for" any airport against any misinformed individuals on the internet. I don't give a hoot about any passenger levy at any airport. Whether this be at Dublin (on my doorstep), driving to Shannon or Cork, I don't care.
Nobody here has said we are "entitled" to taxpayer expense. Is somebody bitter?0 -
highlydebased wrote: »Quite interesting, as you are quite clearly missing the point by denying the truth and posting a load of crap.
YOU good sir are the one launching nonsensical attacks on Boards.
YOU are the one who has labelled anybody who does not agree with your crackpot point of view as "blinkered" and "parochial".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a Mayo brigade harp on for years and years on how the "west needs" a railway running from a one horse town to another. Now they have a few routes from an airport on a hill and apparently they are reveling in the chance for Knock to become the next Heathrow.
I have absolutely no interest in "standing up for" any airport against any misinformed individuals on the internet. I don't give a hoot about any passenger levy at any airport. Whether this be at Dublin (on my doorstep), driving to Shannon or Cork, I don't care.
Nobody here has said we are "entitled" to taxpayer expense. Is somebody bitter?
Western rail corridor was and will always be a waste of time as the population is not there. One point to note is that the western rail corridor does not go any further North than Galway city so i dont see any "Mayo Brigade" using it!!!. The rail corridor is actually going from Limerick to Athenry with apparently just pensioners on a free pass using it.
From the sounds of it its not me thats bitter. Why would i be, we realise how lucky we are to have an airport so close with so many routes and we don't have to travel all the way to SNN or DUB. Most are delighted even if it never expanded another bit, it is after-all a regional airport that covers the west and North west region, for that convenience we are willing to pay to keep it open.
For somebody who does like to travel it great to see more routes to Germany Italy France and Spain open up at the end of the month from the "airport on a hill".0 -
Ok this thead is becoming insane. People are taking great personal offence and throwing personal attacks around based on a discussion about airports. Come on guys is it really that worth getting worked up about?
Lets have a 24hr cooldown and I'll reopon it.
Next person to attack the poster and not the post can take a month long break from this forum.0 -
I think the point has been missed here, people are talking about trains, roads, populations bases etc.
If you say as a starting point that nobody leaves the airport, you only have people flying in and flying out. Heathrow has over 30% of its traffic as transfers, Gatwick almost 13%, Paris, Amsterdam etc, thats tens of millions of people transiting, all people spending money and requiring services. If Shannon or Knock were to be used as an international Hub serving, the USA, South America, Middle East, Russia this would have huge benefits to Ireland.
The core purpose of doing this has to be to focus Ireland as a hub for international travel. Dublin would not suit this as sooner or later it would be restricted by traffic. Plus night flights would be an issue. There would need to be significant land available for expansion. Let road an rail invest ment to get to the airport follow the demand once its built but the immediate focus should be on getting external funding on building the infrastructure. The Chinese, middle eastern funds or the large infrastructure companies like Macquarie or Ferroval may be interested.
If London is looking to build a new 4 runway airport so not to loose out as being an international hub then surely there must be an opportunity to focus entirely on transit traffic and then benefit from the spill offs.
I would imagine the locations to focus on would not be the main airports in America but rather tourist destinations or low cost hub airports such as Atlanta, Florida, Denver, Fort Worth, Chicago etc0 -
Londoncalling wrote: »I think the point has been missed here, people are talking about trains, roads, populations bases etc.
If you say as a starting point that nobody leaves the airport, you only have people flying in and flying out. Heathrow has over 30% of its traffic as transfers, Gatwick almost 13%, Paris, Amsterdam etc, thats tens of millions of people transiting, all people spending money and requiring services. If Shannon or Knock were to be used as an international Hub serving, the USA, South America, Middle East, Russia this would have huge benefits to Ireland.
The core purpose of doing this has to be to focus Ireland as a hub for international travel. Dublin would not suit this as sooner or later it would be restricted by traffic. Plus night flights would be an issue. There would need to be significant land available for expansion. Let road an rail invest ment to get to the airport follow the demand once its built but the immediate focus should be on getting external funding on building the infrastructure. The Chinese, middle eastern funds or the large infrastructure companies like Macquarie or Ferroval may be interested.
If London is looking to build a new 4 runway airport so not to loose out as being an international hub then surely there must be an opportunity to focus entirely on transit traffic and then benefit from the spill offs.
I would imagine the locations to focus on would not be the main airports in America but rather tourist destinations or low cost hub airports such as Atlanta, Florida, Denver, Fort Worth, Chicago etc
Would an airport on the continent not be more suitable as it would also have international train and freight connections ? Its not much further to go from Ireland to Northern France.
It Would at least create some jobs if it ever did.0 -
I still don't see how people think that when the strings are cut from Dublin that Shannon will suddenly just BOOM and expand. Surely any expansion is down to the locals ACTUALLY using the airport and flights, the very reason why most airlines have stopped using Shannon or closed routes is because less people have money to fly therefore the routes lose passenger numbers and routes are chopped.
Whatever Shannon's future is its like the country at the moment its bleak.0 -
Point still being missed. Heathrow has 70m visitors per annum. 33% of these fly into Heathrow and get connecting flights to other airports.
These transit passengers are the ones that should be targeted, thats 20m passengers in Heathrow but also CDG and Skipol do the same. So forget about locals, forget about freight, forget about trains. Picture Shannon as being on an isolated island, and planes fly in, passengers move to other terminals and fly back out again. This is the essence of what a hub is. It is not dependant on rail connections, number of people living locally etc.
The positives Shannon has going for it in comparison to Heathrow:
- lower landing charges - cheaper flights
- not required to circle for 45 minutes to land - therefore cheaper
- a more direct flight path from the USA - therefore cheaper
- lower labour costs - Heathrow employs 76k people directly
- Heathrow is antiquated, compare to Hong Kong or any modern airport it is not fit for purpose
- Shannon could allow for night flights as no major urban area affected
- more green space available for expansion
The effect of having a major international airport hub in Ireland would be greater than any impact lower taxation rates will ever have, it will create huge spin off jobs.
The west coast of Ireland is ideally located for such a hub as all flight paths to the East coast fly north over the country. Air traffic is also expected to double in the next 10 years, there doesnt seem to be a strategy to get some of that action. Transit traffic is ideally suited.0 -
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Londoncalling wrote: »Point still being missed. Heathrow has 70m visitors per annum. 33% of these fly into Heathrow and get connecting flights to other airports.
These transit passengers are the ones that should be targeted, thats 20m passengers in Heathrow but also CDG and Skipol do the same. So forget about locals, forget about freight, forget about trains. Picture Shannon as being on an isolated island, and planes fly in, passengers move to other terminals and fly back out again. This is the essence of what a hub is. It is not dependant on rail connections, number of people living locally etc.
The positives Shannon has going for it in comparison to Heathrow:
- lower landing charges - cheaper flights
- not required to circle for 45 minutes to land - therefore cheaper
- a more direct flight path from the USA - therefore cheaper
- lower labour costs - Heathrow employs 76k people directly
- Heathrow is antiquated, compare to Hong Kong or any modern airport it is not fit for purpose
- Shannon could allow for night flights as no major urban area affected
- more green space available for expansion
The effect of having a major international airport hub in Ireland would be greater than any impact lower taxation rates will ever have, it will create huge spin off jobs.
The west coast of Ireland is ideally located for such a hub as all flight paths to the East coast fly north over the country. Air traffic is also expected to double in the next 10 years, there doesnt seem to be a strategy to get some of that action. Transit traffic is ideally suited.
Its not possible to make a hub solely based on people passing through.The place has to have enough interest to attract enough traffic first which is looking like that wont happen soon.
But at least some of the worlds most wealthiest will be using it as a hub,mostly biz jets using pre-clearence,think the new facility will be built within a year.0 -
Londoncalling wrote: »Point still being missed. Heathrow has 70m visitors per annum. 33% of these fly into Heathrow and get connecting flights to other airports.
These transit passengers are the ones that should be targeted, thats 20m passengers in Heathrow but also CDG and Skipol do the same. So forget about locals, forget about freight, forget about trains. Picture Shannon as being on an isolated island, and planes fly in, passengers move to other terminals and fly back out again. This is the essence of what a hub is. It is not dependant on rail connections, number of people living locally etc.
The positives Shannon has going for it in comparison to Heathrow:
- lower landing charges - cheaper flights
- not required to circle for 45 minutes to land - therefore cheaper
- a more direct flight path from the USA - therefore cheaper
- lower labour costs - Heathrow employs 76k people directly
- Heathrow is antiquated, compare to Hong Kong or any modern airport it is not fit for purpose
- Shannon could allow for night flights as no major urban area affected
- more green space available for expansion
The effect of having a major international airport hub in Ireland would be greater than any impact lower taxation rates will ever have, it will create huge spin off jobs.
The west coast of Ireland is ideally located for such a hub as all flight paths to the East coast fly north over the country. Air traffic is also expected to double in the next 10 years, there doesnt seem to be a strategy to get some of that action. Transit traffic is ideally suited.
I admire your vision for Shannon greatly but I simply could not see it happening, at all.
while I agree some sort of low cost hub for long haul travel to North America may make sense, I really don;t think it would be at an airport like Shannon at all. It would be at an airport like Stansted. Quite simply, what major passenger hub (Like you might vision for Shannon) do you know that is not near a major regional city, anywhere, worldwide? I can't think of any to be honest..0 -
Isn't that what EI is doing at Dublin, regional flights all over UK feeding into their US hub, and wide range of connections all over Europe onward from Dublin? Shannon can't really compete with that and EI aren't likely to want a second hub. It has very little connectivity or frequency beyond a few UK and holiday routes to offer a hub connections compared to Dublin.0
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The idea of a hub there is based on
- cost efficiency in terms of fuel
- cost efficiency in terms of landing charges
- cost effiency in terms of development costs in comparison to building in central london or in the Thames Estuary
- location suitability in terms of geographical periphery of Europe
- clearing US customs before landing therefore time saving
- availability of night flight option
- reduced flight path traffic
- lower ground staff labour costs
- creating jobs
- there is a need for transit traffic, not all airports are served, Heathrow is a hub but an expensive, inefficient, operating at capactity airport
Dubai, Hong Kong, Frankfurt, Mumbai all operate at rates around 33% for transfers. Im not saying it will take over Heathrow but im saying there is a need for transit and I believe it is possible to focus 80%+ of traffic on it, if all of the above benefits stand true.
Dublin doesnt have the capacity to grow, nor does it have all of the benefits above. It would require building a virtual new airport that has a capacity to take 20m passangers (ie taking those 20+m transit travellers from Heathrow) but scope to grow to 60m. Heathrow has plans to grow from its current 69m to 120m in 20 years.0 -
If it were viable it would be a reality.0
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Hate to reopen an old wound, BUT, is Aer lingus getting rid of the Shannon-heathrow route again next summer? The site shows flights from LHR to Dublin, cork and Belfast, but no Shannon. Heard they had a tender in to operate heathrow-Edinburgh, could they be waiting to see if they can operate this route using the Shannon slots for heathrow?0
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If its viable, it requires significant funding. The cost of a Third runway at Heathrow is expected to be Stg£10bn, Boris Island Stg£23bn. Airport planning normally takes at least 10 years planning, 10 years ago there wasnt the demand, it doesnt happen overnight but looking to the furture there is an opportunity, Dublin isnt suitable but there is a possibility with Shannon or Knock as a hub airport focused on low cost transit traffic.0
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Londoncalling wrote: »If its viable, it requires significant funding. The cost of a Third runway at Heathrow is expected to be Stg£10bn, Boris Island Stg£23bn. Airport planning normally takes at least 10 years planning, 10 years ago there wasnt the demand, it doesnt happen overnight but looking to the furture there is an opportunity, Dublin isnt suitable but there is a possibility with Shannon or Knock as a hub airport focused on low cost transit traffic.
You could invest all the money you want but it would still never work. As others have already pointed out, you need a large City close by to provide a decent catchment area.
You can't have a hub with connecting traffic only.0 -
Historically airports are state owned and Governments built the airports strategically around their main cities with connectivity of their city being the prime drive.
Air travel has evolved, hub airports started mainly in the USA with Atlanta being the prime example has over 60% transit traffic. Frankfurt in Europe with a population of under 700k people is also a major hub with a large transit percentage.
Cost, C02 emissions, increased air traffic all now play a major part. Low cost airline models have not only changed how we view destinations but have put cost as being the major driver in increased air traffic.
It has been stated many times that local population base is necessary, the fact that an airport would be built would massively increase the population base in that region.
Also saying it cant be done focusing on 80% transit traffic, why not? The reason for the location is that its cheaper, would have more connectivity than any other airport, can clear US customs. So save time, money, more connectivity, lower CO2, create jobs, night flights.0 -
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Londoncalling wrote: »The idea of a hub there is based on
- cost efficiency in terms of fuel
- cost efficiency in terms of landing charges
- cost effiency in terms of development costs in comparison to building in central london or in the Thames Estuary
- location suitability in terms of geographical periphery of Europe
- clearing US customs before landing therefore time saving
- availability of night flight option
- reduced flight path traffic
- lower ground staff labour costs
- creating jobs
- there is a need for transit traffic, not all airports are served, Heathrow is a hub but an expensive, inefficient, operating at capactity airport
Ill have a go at answering you:
-2 take-offs use more fuel than a single journey.
-SNN may have low landing charges but currently airlines don't pat them so any additional charge is more costs.
-Recent history would indicated that the irish charge just as much as the UK contractors,and may not actually finish the job properly.
-Location perfect,hence a history of aircraft stopping there.However now aircraft have the range to bypass SNN.
-CBP is a big advantage,however not enough in itself. Look at the ongoing rumours/media stories on Air India via DUB.
-Night flites are an option but not really a deal maker.
-The flight paths will still be busy,except now they will have more landing/take-off traffic as well as all the existing overflights.
-Staff costs in Ireland are and will remain high relative to other European countries.
-Jobs are a consequence not a cause of a hub in SNN.
-I agree that LHR is maxed out and in inefficient.But this situation grew over the last 40+ years.
I can see where you are going with this line of thought. However it is very SimAirport. You cannot create a hub overnight. The airlines will not use it until the facilities are there. The facilities will not be built (in this country) unless the need is there. Airlines are not going to relocate their operation to SNN on a vague idea of 'lower costs'. Most European airlines have a geographically based market (ie their Home market) why would their suddenly make these pax take 2 flight to the USA when 1 flight currently works?
The only entity I could see using SNN as a hub cross the Atlantic would be the long fabled RyanAtlantic venture. Feed pax from all over Europe on LCC routes, Then load them onto a larger aircraft (B767/A330/B772) for essentially shuttle flights across the pond.0
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