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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Options
    #242
    andrewire
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭andrewire


    woodoo wrote: »
    People in social housing should have to pay something towards it. They get far too much handed to them. It would get them into the habit of paying for things themselves.

    I think they should have to pay the full €100 though.

    Agree.


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    #243
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    jester77 wrote: »
    An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.


    Tis only people letting off steam - the fearless keyboard warriors will melt away when the threat of a large fine drops through their letterbox.


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    #244
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jester77 wrote: »
    An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month

    People have to stop thinking like this. It's not a monthly charge. It's annual!


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    #245
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    jester77 wrote: »
    An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

    Mortgage interest rates are being passed on to those entitled to them, ie tracker holders.

    i'd be far more p1ssed off about children's allowances not being means tested, about €250m in increments being annually handed over to relatively well paid public sector workers, about political pensions etc.


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    #246
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    smash wrote: »
    That's BS. If teachers can strike about a pay freeze, then the country can protest about another tax!


    two wrongs dont make a right, thats petty behavior, like that of a spoilt child... typical celtic tiger behavior


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    #247
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    two wrongs dont make a right, thats petty behavior, like that of a spoilt child... typical celtic tiger behavior

    And how is it two wrongs? And how is it "typical celtic tiger behaviour" if people want to protest about something? You're not making any sense to me.

    I understand that we're in a lot of debt, but this charge is horse shít considering the level of cuts needed in the ps that aren't happening!

    Anyway, on a lighter note: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2011/1216/1224309148268.html


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    #248
    daltonmd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭daltonmd


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    In 5 years time Eamonn Dunphy will just be getting out of jail and he will come round and sort it out for you.

    Nobody will be going to jail, not joe Higgins or Claire Daly.

    There is talk of bringing in community orders and/or attachment of earnings for non payment of fines - this is what will happen.

    If you do not pay the fine you will go to court, you will get community service and have your dole/salary garnished and the fine taken out over a period of time...

    All the angles will be covered and the message will be clear - 100 now or "up to" 2,500 in the future - it's Irelands call............


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    #249
    bazza1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭bazza1


    Why not just remove the €100 tax by decreasing the tax credit by the appropriate amount on your Tax forms and it will be drawn over a whole year without coughing it up in one lump? Cheaper for the Govt to administer too.


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    #250
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Landlords can **** right off.


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    #251
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    jester77 wrote: »
    An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

    Do you actually believe it will be €100 in 5 years time?
    lol.


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    #252
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    Landlords can **** right off.
    Brilliant post, love the research and the reasoning behind it.


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    #253
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    smash wrote: »
    I understand that we're in a lot of debt, but this charge is horse shít considering the level of cuts needed in the ps that aren't happening!

    QUOTE]

    they have tried to cut sw and ps and it failed, they need to recoup the money, if we protest on this, it will come in somewhere else, its silly to keep fighting this as it has to happen, its not the first and wont be the last tax sneaking in, the sooner people realise that this isnt done to 'screw us over' its done because they have no other option... do you really think this was decided lightly, or that the government WANT this... if people put their personal finances aside and looked at the bigger picture... things become a tad clearer


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    #254
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    they have tried to cut sw and ps and it failed, they need to recoup the money,
    It failed because they were bullied by the unions. The croke park agreement is a joke!
    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    if we protest on this, it will come in somewhere else, its silly to keep fighting this as it has to happen, its not the first and wont be the last tax sneaking in
    That's the bigger problem, taxes do not go away. This will stay and will go up every year. The country is already too expensive!
    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    the sooner people realise that this isnt done to 'screw us over' its done because they have no other option...
    Not true!
    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    do you really think this was decided lightly, or that the government WANT this...
    Yes, they do want it. It will be a constant income for them going forward.
    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    if people put their personal finances aside and looked at the bigger picture... things become a tad clearer
    No they don't, personal finance get people by day by day, and this tax is reducing that amount further.


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    #255
    daltonmd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭daltonmd


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    smash wrote: »
    I understand that we're in a lot of debt, but this charge is horse shít considering the level of cuts needed in the ps that aren't happening!

    QUOTE]

    they have tried to cut sw and ps and it failed, they need to recoup the money, if we protest on this, it will come in somewhere else, its silly to keep fighting this as it has to happen, its not the first and wont be the last tax sneaking in, the sooner people realise that this isnt done to 'screw us over' its done because they have no other option... do you really think this was decided lightly, or that the government WANT this... if people put their personal finances aside and looked at the bigger picture... things become a tad clearer

    That's about the size of it - this was agreed with the last government and in order to keep the money coming in these measures have to be brought in.

    The CPA will be reviewed very shortly as will social welfare. They stopped short of cutting these now because they need them for next year.


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    #256
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    smash wrote: »
    People have to stop thinking like this. It's not a monthly charge. It's annual!

    Same thing, 27c a day, €8.33 or €100 a year, you still have to pay it. I would imagine most people do a monthly budget (as most people are paid monthly) and not a yearly budget, so that's why most people would think like this.
    The-Rigger wrote: »
    Do you actually believe it will be €100 in 5 years time?
    lol.

    Of course not, it will probably be a much fairer tax by that time based on the either the value or size of the property, which will better reflect what a person can afford to pay.


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    #257
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    jester77 wrote: »
    Same thing, 27c a day, €8.33 or €100 a year, you still have to pay it. I would imagine most people do a monthly budget (as most people are paid monthly) and not a yearly budget, so that's why most people would think like this.



    Of course not, it will probably be a much fairer tax by that time based on the either the value or size of the property, which will better reflect what a person can afford to pay.

    :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:


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    #258
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jester77 wrote: »
    Same thing, 27c a day, €8.33 or €100 a year, you still have to pay it. I would imagine most people do a monthly budget (as most people are paid monthly) and not a yearly budget, so that's why most people would think like this.

    You might as well say "Do you want a Lamborghini for €50 a month" and then saying "Ok, well give me €200k now then"

    It's not a monthly charge.
    jester77 wrote: »
    Of course not, it will probably be a much fairer tax by that time based on the either the value or size of the property, which will better reflect what a person can afford to pay.
    This is also not true. There are houses out there worth a few million that the owners purchased for next to nothing back in the day. This method could force people out of their family home!


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    #259
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    smash wrote: »
    You might as well say "Do you want a Lamborghini for €50 a month" and then saying "Ok, well give me €200k now then"

    It's not a monthly charge.


    This is also not true. There are houses out there worth a few million that the owners purchased for next to nothing back in the day. This method could force people out of their family home!
    There's not a lot of houses worth 'a few million' nowadays.


  • Options
    #260
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    There's not a lot of houses worth 'a few million' nowadays.
    Yes there are actually. min price search on daft for 1m returned 512 properties. And that's only properties for sale, not total properties in Ireland.


  • Options
    #261
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    smash wrote: »
    You might as well say "Do you want a Lamborghini for €50 a month" and then saying "Ok, well give me €200k now then"

    It's not a monthly charge.

    Never said it was a monthly charge. But when you sit down at the end of the month to do your monthly budget, you will be putting away €8.33 for it. It's not as if you will wait until the end of the year and hope you have €100 sitting there to pay for it.
    smash wrote: »
    This is also not true. There are houses out there worth a few million that the owners purchased for next to nothing back in the day. This method could force people out of their family home!

    Doubt too many are worth a few million. Plus if you are living in such a mansion, I'm sure you could well afford the tax. Doubt there are many poor people living in millionaire mansions!


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    #262
    stebe
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭stebe


    We have to look at it from the point of view of short term pain, long term gain! €2 a week is not a lot to anybody know matter how poor you are.


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    #263
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jester77 wrote: »
    when you sit down at the end of the month to do your monthly budget, you will be putting away €8.33 for it. It's not as if you will wait until the end of the year and hope you have €100 sitting there to pay for it.
    do you honestly think this happens?
    jester77 wrote: »
    Doubt too many are worth a few million. Plus if you are living in such a mansion, I'm sure you could well afford the tax. Doubt there are many poor people living in millionaire mansions!
    Everything is relative, don't be naive.


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    #264
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    Yes there are actually. min price search on daft for 1m returned 512 properties. And that's only properties for sale, not total properties in Ireland.


    Don't know if asking prices on Daft are a reliable indicator of the market - some of the prices being looked for by people selling in my area are still at 2007 levels.


  • Options
    #265
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    smash wrote: »
    do you honestly think this happens?

    I would hope it happens, how else does a person know what their earning and spending? That is unless you are absolutely minted and don't have to worry about expenses, but that wouldn't apply to most people.
    smash wrote: »
    Everything is relative, don't be naive.

    That's what I was getting at. The property tax will be relative to the price or size of the property. Someone who owns a millionaire mansion either had to pay a lot of money relevant to the time it was bought or they had to pay a large amount of inheritance tax.


  • Options
    #266
    daltonmd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭daltonmd


    smash wrote: »
    Yes there are actually. min price search on daft for 1m returned 512 properties. And that's only properties for sale, not total properties in Ireland.


    If you are living in a house that's worth millions then the liklihood is that you have a good job, with a good income and send you children to private school.

    A property tax won't be forcing these people out of their homes.


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    #267
    mmm76
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭mmm76


    Its the "get the foot in the door" attitude of the gov that gets me.Its €100 now but like a lot of people are fearing ,it'll be over €1000+++ in a year or two.Also what the hell are we gettin in return for our few quid.I live in Galway where the water is undrinkable,the housing estate I live in has no management co and council won't take over so we clean and maintain areas ourselves.In other words we get no help from gov here so I sure as hell won't be paying for fresh air.


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    #268
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Brilliant post, love the research and the reasoning behind it.


    Wtf are you blathering about?

    wrote:
    Tenants should pick up landlords' household charge: IPOA
    Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 04:09 PM

    People who rent their homes could be hit with the €100 household charge announced in last week's Budget, if the body representing landlords gets its way.

    The Irish Property Owners Association said landlords in the private rental sector could not afford the charge in addition to the second home tax of €200, introduced in 2009.

    The organisation has advised landlords to write to tenants outlining a monthly service charge of €25 (€300 per year) to cover the household charge and the second home tax.

    Spokesperson for the housing agency Threshold senator Aideen Hayden called the IPOA's move "outrageous".

    "It was made very clear by Minister Phil Hogan that the household charge was a charge on the owner of the property, and not on the tenant," she said.

    "In fact, that's specifically stated - it is not a charge for a tenant in the private rental sector."


    Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tenants-should-pick-up-landlords-household-charge-ipoa-532358.html#ixzz1giAspe4f


  • Options
    #269
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    smash wrote: »
    Yes there are actually. min price search on daft for 1m returned 512 properties. And that's only properties for sale, not total properties in Ireland.
    1 million is not 'a few million'. A few million would be €3 million plus.
    Check daft.ie, there's 21!
    Anyway, off topic.


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    #270
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jester77 wrote: »
    Someone who owns a millionaire mansion either had to pay a lot of money relevant to the time it was bought or they had to pay a large amount of inheritance tax.
    daltonmd wrote: »
    If you are living in a house that's worth millions then the liklihood is that you have a good job, with a good income and send you children to private school.

    A property tax won't be forcing these people out of their homes.

    Seriously, both of you need to stop thinking that most people in big houses are loaded. It's simply not true. There are thousands of people who could afford to buy houses years ago, then the house prices rose, or they were made unemployed etc. What someone can afford to pay is relative to their earnings, not the size of the house they live in!


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    #271
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    Wtf are you blathering about?
    It's called the 'principle residence tax' for a reason. It's designed so people will pay for services provided by each local council. Do people who rent not use these services? You can copy and paste all day if you like......


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