Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Jesus Wept

gerryo777 wrote: »

It's called the 'principle residence tax' for a reason. It's designed so people will pay for services provided by each local council. Do people who rent not use these services? You can copy and paste all day if you like......

Sure, this is Citizens Information.

If you own a dwelling, you will be liable for the Household Charge, subject to the exemptions and waivers listed below. If your house is rented out, you will be liable for the charge – not your tenant.

daltonmd

smash wrote: »

Seriously, both of you need to stop thinking that most people in big houses are loaded. It's simply not true. There are thousands of people who could afford to buy houses years ago, then the house prices rose, or they were made unemployed etc. What someone can afford to pay is relative to their earnings, not the size of the house they live in!

Nope, that's not what you said and not what I said.

You didn't say big houses you said "houses that are worth millions" - big difference.

If you live in a house that is today, still worth millions, then you live in Dalkey or in Ballsbridge - you did not get out there by selling your 2up 2down in ballyer - no matter what price they were going to.

A property tax will NOT force these people, living in their houses that are worth millions, out of them.

Ghandee

Half the knobs on here are willing to let the Govt charge them whatever the hell they like in a few years time? (but sure its only a hundred euro, every one should pay it blah blah blah) Seemingly we've learnt nothing over the years from the other hidden charges, stealth taxes and so on.


I just don't get the sheer stupidness, and ignorance of some supposedly intelligent people on this thread. We actually come across as nation of cowards, not to mention idiots the way we repeatedly bow down and don't challenge a single thing thrown at us.

I'm no keyboard warrior, I'll stick to my guns on this one.


Household tax?

Do one Mr Minister!:pac:

smash

daltonmd wrote: »

Nope, that's not what you said and not what I said.

You didn't say big houses you said "houses that are worth millions" - big difference.

It's the same principle. Circumstances change for people. How much you can afford to pay is relative to your income and nothing else!

daltonmd wrote: »

A property tax will NOT force these people, living in their houses that are worth millions, out of them.

A value based tax could do exactly that!

And all this talk of €2 a week is rubbish! With this, plus carbon tax on fuel, VAT on everything, increase in motor tax, price increases across esb and gas it's more like €15-€20 a week.

sbsquarepants

smash wrote: »

But what about 5 years time when it's €1,000 a year?

I know it won't stay at 100 a year and once it's in in principle, it's in for good, but it still catches up with you. It's like the bin charges and water rates and so on, it might be 10 years down the road but they will sting you one day.
It is what it is, they promised not to increase income tax, but there was never any way they weren't going to increase overall tax. If people don't pay a household tax, they'll just call it something else and stop it at source if neccesary.
One way or another, everyone is going to pay.

smash

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I know it won't stay at 100 a year and once it's in in principle, it's in for good, but it still catches up with you. It's like the bin charges and water rates and so on, it might be 10 years down the road but they will sting you one day.

The difference is that bin charges and water rates can be monitored and you can minimise your spend. With a household charge you just bend over and take it. Which I wont!

daltonmd

smash wrote: »

It's the same principle. Circumstances change for people. How much you can afford to pay is relative to your income and nothing else!


A value based tax could do exactly that!

And all this talk of €2 a week is rubbish! With this, plus carbon tax on fuel, VAT on everything, increase in motor tax, price increases across esb and gas it's more like €15-€20 a week.

it's not the same principle at all smash. it's like saying that if you buy a Jaguar when you earn 200k a year then should you lose that job and fall on hard times that you should keep the car, while on the dole and apply for exemptions for motor tax - that's not the way it works, if you can't afford to drive the car you sell it. If you can't afford to live in Dalkey then you best scale down to where you can afford.

Circumstances change and when that happens so does behaviour.

daltonmd

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I know it won't stay at 100 a year and once it's in in principle, it's in for good, but it still catches up with you. It's like the bin charges and water rates and so on, it might be 10 years down the road but they will sting you one day.
It is what it is, they promised not to increase income tax, but there was never any way they weren't going to increase overall tax. If people don't pay a household tax, they'll just call it something else and stop it at source if neccesary.
One way or another, everyone is going to pay.

That's what is going to happen. Then in the next election we'll punish Labour and FG, we'll listen to the promises of FF, how they won't raise taxes, how they'll do away with this tax and that tax - and then the cycle will start all over again.

you get the government that you deserve...

smash

daltonmd wrote: »

it's not the same principle at all smash. it's like saying that if you buy a Jaguar when you earn 200k a year then should you lose that job and fall on hard times that you should keep the car, while on the dole and apply for exemptions for motor tax - that's not the way it works, if you can't afford to drive the car you sell it. If you can't afford to live in Dalkey then you best scale down to where you can afford.

Circumstances change and when that happens so does behaviour.

I'm not talking about people paying mortgages, I'm talking about people that own houses!

daltonmd

smash wrote: »

I'm not talking about people paying mortgages, I'm talking about people that own houses!

?? You've lost me now.

the point that I am trying to make is that if you live in homes of above 1 million then these are in wealthy affluent areas. it isn't Ballyfermot of Finglas. It's Dalkey and the like - if you still live there when your circumstances have changed then you shouldn't be, because you can't afford to live there anymore.

Malignant Paddy

jester77 wrote: »

Same thing, 27c a day, €8.33 or €100 a year, you still have to pay it. I would imagine most people do a monthly budget (as most people are paid monthly) and not a yearly budget, so that's why most people would think like this.



Of course not, it will probably be a much fairer tax by that time based on the either the value or size of the property, which will better reflect what a person can afford to pay.

Needed a laugh, not just any old laugh, but a real moment of comedic genius.

Jester, you are very talented, your humour is dry and somewhat tongue in cheek, but I like it.

mountainyman

I am paying it. I agree with property taxes. I won't be paying the 2% VAT increase.

Zebra3

You can imagine the scum in the IMF and the EU looking at this thread thinking "those Irish fools will take anything, what tax will we hit them with next to make up for private banking losses?".

Kenny the Collaborator standing by waiting to hear from our European overlords.

tayto lover

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I know it won't stay at 100 a year and once it's in in principle, it's in for good, but it still catches up with you. It's like the bin charges and water rates and so on, it might be 10 years down the road but they will sting you one day.
It is what it is, they promised not to increase income tax, but there was never any way they weren't going to increase overall tax. If people don't pay a household tax, they'll just call it something else and stop it at source if neccesary.
One way or another, everyone is going to pay.

You are right. BUT I will make it as difficult as I can for them. I still have not being told what benefits I will receive from them if I pay the Property Tax .... eventually.

Chips Lovell

A property tax was recommended by the Commission on Taxation, and its report outlines why exactly they think its desirable.

It does make sense to a.) broaden the tax base and b.) move away from the current property tax regime based around stamp duty which was very much dependent on the level of activity in the market.

The other thing we have to remember is that if the government doesn't use this, it would find another way to raise the money. That €100 would be coming out of our pay cheques either way.

mickydoomsux

Nice to see the Irish infatuation with property has persisted after the boom years :rolleyes:

"But it's my house, i should have to pay any taxes on it to the Brits government!"

It's an international norm. We need to drag ourselves out of our "I own it, **** you", former colony, property is sacred mentality. The money from this tax will go toward paying the 40% of our budget that goes on social welfare, it will go to paying for the health system, the guards, and the huge debt we acquired from being too greedy etc.

We can either ask people to pay this minuscule tax or we can cut the state pension, close more hospital wards and take cops of the streets.

You can't just pick and choose what you think are the "fair" taxes and pay only them and then expect there to be no cuts elsewhere in services. I for one will be paying this tax as soon as is possible. I want to contribute to this country getting back on it's feet. The people complain about "getting shafted" are being completely selfish and expecting a miracle recovery in our collective fortunes.

Carter P Fly

I was talking to a girl in work who owns her own apartment who is convinced she doesnt have to pay this tax as it doesnt apply to her because she gets mortgage intrest relief!!

mickydoomsux

Carter P Fly wrote: »

I was talking to a girl in work who owns her own apartment who is convinced she doesnt have to pay this tax as it doesnt apply to her because she gets mortgage intrest relief!!

She's confusing herself with someone who gets Mortgage interest Supplement.

Chips Lovell

Carter P Fly wrote: »

I was talking to a girl in work who owns her own apartment who is convinced she doesnt have to pay this tax as it doesnt apply to her because she gets mortgage intrest relief!!

It's waived for people on Mortgage Interest Supplement, not Mortgage Interest Relief.

EDIT: What he said ^

Carter P Fly

Exactly what we said to her but it just fell on deaf ears, 'Im not paying it because Im exempt' and she was sticking to it!!!

Wondering how many people on this thead think they're exempt because theyre a little bit slow on the uptake?

Chips Lovell

Carter P Fly wrote: »

Exactly what we said to her but it just fell on deaf ears, 'Im not paying it because Im exempt' and she was sticking to it!!!

if she's truly convinced of that, she should have no problem when one of you report her to the Revenue.

tayto lover

There are still a lot of sheeple around. They won't stop believing F.G. and their policies until they have no arse in their trousers.

7Sins

http://www.tv3.ie/news.php?request=&tv3_preview=&video=43495

Isn't this absolutely shocking! Hah?! Incredible stuff altogether. A village in Galway only getting running water now! Where the hell were these people for the past 10 years? I never heard any protest about them not having running water. I honestly thought there was no place in this country without running water. I really can't believe this and their council has the audacity to say it's an early christmas present for them (they're getting it in Jan) I'm outraged and they think they can ask me for a property tax to fund their mercedez and free dinners. My area didn't getting water until the late 80's and I thought that was bad.

Have you guys got running water yet? Are ye just keeping quiet incase the big bad council bullies you into prison?

Malignant Paddy

The-Rigger wrote: »

Wtf are you blathering about?

Not sure what it is I signed up to here, piss and much wind for the most part it seems.

A nation of sheep who in the end, despite all the flatulent rhetoric, will no doubt continue to line up with their pants down and submit to the fiscal colonoscopic examinations that the top 5% have planned and schedued for them.

What a bunch of losers. At least we can always continue to excel in our all time favourite field of endeavour. Cyclical unemployment. Yes, no-one does unemployment as well or as often as Ireland.

smash

daltonmd wrote: »

?? You've lost me now.

the point that I am trying to make is that if you live in homes of above 1 million then these are in wealthy affluent areas. it isn't Ballyfermot of Finglas. It's Dalkey and the like - if you still live there when your circumstances have changed then you shouldn't be, because you can't afford to live there anymore.

it's not hard to comprehend that there are people who bought house, have paid off their mortgages, worked hard to do it, property prices went higher, are now retired and might have to pay a tax based on the current value of their house, that they might have paid off 10 or 15 years ago!

In these cases, and there are thousands of them, they might not be able to afford it.

There's also people in apparents paying in excess of a thousand a year on maintenance fees and now will have to pay an ownership tax on top of it, they probably can't afford it either.

simit

I'm only renting but if my lanlord tries to pass the charge on to me, he'll be getting his keys handed back to him.

Chips Lovell

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

A nation of sheep who in the end, despite all the flatulent rhetoric, will no doubt continue to line up with their pants down and submit to the fiscal colonoscopic examinations that the top 5% have planned and schedued for them.

Go on, enlighten us. What's your alternative?

Frank Black

simit wrote: »

I'm only renting but if my lanlord tries to pass the charge on to me, he'll be getting his keys handed back to him.

What if every other landlord you go to tries to pass on the charge as well?

dxhound2005

smash wrote: »

The difference is that bin charges and water rates can be monitored and you can minimise your spend. With a household charge you just bend over and take it. Which I wont!

You eventually will (or someone else will when you die).

Late payment penalties will apply as follows :

Payments made within 3 and 6 months of January 2012 – a 10% penalty.
Payments made between 6 and 12 months late – a 20% penalty.
Payments more than 12 months late – a 30% penalty plus 1% interest per month

So – if someone is 12 months late paying the €100 household charge – they will owe €130 plus another €12 interest – a total of €142.


If charges remain unpaid a charge will remain attached to the property

Selling House : A vendor of a residential property must pay any household charge, late payment fee and late payment interest due on the property and give a certificate of discharge, exemption or waiver in respect of each liability date during the vendor’s ownership to a purchaser on or before the sale or transfer can be completed.

Zebra3

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You eventually will (or someone else will when you die).

Late payment penalties will apply as follows :

Payments made within 3 and 6 months of January 2012 – a 10% penalty.
Payments made between 6 and 12 months late – a 20% penalty.
Payments more than 12 months late – a 30% penalty plus 1% interest per month

So – if someone is 12 months late paying the €100 household charge – they will owe €130 plus another €12 interest – a total of €142.


If charges remain unpaid a charge will remain attached to the property

Selling House : A vendor of a residential property must pay any household charge, late payment fee and late payment interest due on the property and give a certificate of discharge, exemption or waiver in respect of each liability date during the vendor’s ownership to a purchaser on or before the sale or transfer can be completed.

That's only if the citizens of this country lay down like a bunch of cowards and continue to have their income taken off them to pay off gamblers' losses.

Don't pay.