Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

gerryo777

where do i go from here wrote: »

No one will go to court.

Everyone will pay.

Eventually.

The notion of paying a household tax is not absurd but what is absurd is the FACT that the moneys raised are going to pay german & french bond market gamblers.
I will not pay.

Robdude

gerryo777 wrote: »

The notion of paying a household tax is not absurd but what is absurd is the FACT that the moneys raised are going to pay german & french bond market gamblers.
I will not pay.

I don't mean this as a troll or an attack; I just really don't understand....

Why is Ireland paying money to the French/German bond market folk? I've heard that Ireland is in debt, but doesn't it require some action for Ireland to get into debt?

gerryo777

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Hold on, wasn't the Croke park agreement brought in Under the The previous **** house Government??

Yea, another thing they fcuked up on. Keep the unions happy at all costs.....

Freddie59

Clareboy wrote: »

What's all the fuss about? We are talking about €2 per week! The price of a newspaper!

Now. For starters.

mickydoomsux

gerryo777 wrote: »

The notion of paying a household tax is not absurd but what is absurd is the FACT that the moneys raised are going to pay german & french bond market gamblers.
I will not pay.

You should refuse to pay PAYE, PRSI, VAT, excise, etc. as well in that case because it all goes in the pot to pay off our debts.

Show us the courage of your convictions.

Sizzler

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Hold on, wasn't the Croke park agreement brought in Under the The previous **** house Government??

Yup..exactly my point. FG and co didnt agree it so they should have been ripping it to shreds and starting over.

With labour in a coalition there would be more chance of Jack O'Connor paying back the missing €5m from his own pocket!

gerryo777

Robdude wrote: »

I don't mean this as a troll or an attack; I just really don't understand....

Why is Ireland paying money to the French/German bond market folk? I've heard that Ireland is in debt, but doesn't it require some action for Ireland to get into debt?

We are paying money, borrowed from the IMF, to unsecured bondholders in anglo. We are only paying this because merkozy insist that their gamblers will not lose anything. The reason the whole euro is in trouble is because capitalism has not been allowed take its natural course.
When anyone takes a gamble, you can either win or you lose but with these unsecured bondholders they can either win or win. Because of this all these new taxes are being invented, to save their asses. Meanwhile all the austerity and cuts are running our economy, our hopes and our people into the grave!!!

Zebra3

black francis wrote: »

You got any more records with you?

This one must be nearly worn out.

It's far from worn out and for those who are happy to pay tax to fund foreign banks' gambling losses, I'll say it again.

Don't pay.

gerryo777

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You should refuse to pay PAYE, PRSI, VAT, excise, etc. as well in that case because it all goes in the pot to pay off our debts.

Show us the courage of your convictions.

Maybe if the whole country stood together and did this we might be listened to.

Micky Dolenz

I'll treat this like the TV license thingy.

InkSlinger67

Isn't there already a property tax? RTE Guide?!?!?!

Frank Black

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

There is no alternative. That in itself has long been the problem with this particular hole in the ground. Most countries are found content to send their people out for a look around and perhaps to receive an education to boot only to find them home again, ready to build a life. We send them out, fed, watered and educated and rarely expect to see them again. There is no life to be had here as there is and too often has been no work to speak off, cyclically speaking.

Ireland sends its people into the world out of sheer necessity. Its no surprize to anyone today that not only do we speciaize in cyclical unemployment, we also specialize in cyclical economic mis-management, cyclical endemic corruption with a generous helping of cyclical cronyism.

Those that remain, remain only to bear witness to that which we cyclically create. We are now in the process of de-constructing education, Heathcare has long made its home in the toilet. Lets face it, our infrastructure generally does not bear close examination. The negation of our commitment to accountability has served to accomplish that particular goal. Cyclically speaking of course.

Still we persist in employing ex-teachers & barristers to run what is essentially a financial operation, who appear for the most part to have availed of the longest liquid lunch break in history of civilization. We have always and continue to pay them well enough to facilitate their insulation from those austerity measures they propose to inflict on others. There is much to be said and done about that particular state of affairs. However a place at the top table has been booked in advance, in that our legislative instruments, together with our constitution has set such in stone.

So Vlad, whats the alternative?

Cyclically we are up to our eyes in ****e. Everything we do, and have ever done was and is done to prepare our economy to become cyclically absurd, which today is clearly yet again what we have become. Cyclically speaking.

Change is the only alternative, however you need the young to stay on to help facilitate that process. The older generations have proved incapable of facilitating such. They have left in their wake yet another entire generation of young people growing up on welfare and there is no change in sight. The inorganic creation of work will not serve to shed light on that particular conundrum. We can educate them, if it is education they want, however an education that results in a job offer cleaning toilets will serve to send them away. Ironic really.

We have already begun to lay the ground work for yet another exodus, and so we will no doubt begin again. Cyclically speaking.

So lets have a discussion on a €100 stealth tax, its animated, so full of vitality, however, it will have a short shelf life and in the end will become nothing more than a well preserved cyberfile in a sea of stagnant servers.

Jeez, what a drama queen.

Toby Take a Bow

InkSlinger67 wrote: »

Isn't there already a property tax? RTE Guide?!?!?!

Huh?

Who buys the RTE Guide?

AudreyHepburn

I don't own my own home yet but if I did I'd have no issue paying the tax. Times are hard at the moment, tough measures are called for. Lets not pretend otherwise.

Honestly you're fooling no-one put yourself by breaking the law.

squod

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't own my own home yet but if I did I'd have no issue paying the tax. Times are hard at the moment, tough measures are called for. Lets not pretend otherwise.

Honestly you're fooling no-one put yourself by breaking the law.

Sounds like you'd have been all for Mandela getting sentenced. The ''law'' has to be just.

Toby Take a Bow

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't own my own home yet but if I did I'd have no issue paying the tax. Times are hard at the moment, tough measures are called for. Lets not pretend otherwise.

You do now that people have thought out the reasons they are against this tax, yeah? For (most) of the people, the opposition is that, regardless of what you earn, you pay the exact same amount of tax (bar the 'exemptions' Kenny mentioned in the Dail). So, say you're earning 30,000 you pay the same as someone earning 150,000. It doesn't matter that you break the tax down into how you pay be microsecond, there's the principal involved. Some people are ethically opposed to a tax that doesn't take into account what you earn.

The second major point (for a lot of the people) is the fact that there is a suspicion that this is a tax that will keep on rising. Oppose it now to prevent and you prevent a government from touching this issue for a decade.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Honestly you're fooling no-one put yourself by breaking the law.

Solnskaya

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't own my own home yet but if I did I'd have no issue paying the tax. Times are hard at the moment, tough measures are called for. Lets not pretend otherwise.

Honestly you're fooling no-one put yourself by breaking the law.

I'm tired of this "times are hard" sh1te. No, No they are not. Perception is that times are hard. If you are a bondholder, times aint so hard, it's all good. If you are an ordinary Joe, times are said to be hard. Perception IS reality and at the mo, perception is being Seriously spun. Crock of sh1t. "there is no money for public services" "Here ye go, have a billion buddy". Feck off.

gigino

Solnskaya wrote: »

I'm tired of this "times are hard" sh1te. No, No they are not.

Yes they are are for many people. Many people have little or no income and owe a lot of money.

To solve the problem of the household charge, the least they can do is refuse to increase the pay of those public servants ( pay incrtements ) paid over 80,000 per year. Thats the value of the property tax easily sorted

Malignant Paddy

black francis wrote: »

Jeez, what a drama queen.

Yes, drama. That must be what it is.

Still, I can afford to laugh at your comedic insight. I can also afford to laugh at your typically Irish dumbass response. You see, I'm not stuck here. Come January I'll be found smokin spliffs at the Big Day Out, surrounded by a sea of half naked smiling, happy and hot lookin broads. I'll have to wear sunblock because the sun will be out for more than 15 minutes.

I'll probably be laughing too when I wake up in a 3 bed townhouse in Darlinghurst, which I bought after I left this ****hole with the money I made from being gainfully employed far away from this welfare state.

By the way, it has increased in value since I bought it. Strange to buy a house only to see it increase in value. Novelty value not lost on me there. You can't erect a garden shed in Oz without planning permission, that means you can be guaranteed somebody from the council will be round to check it to see if it might potentially kill someone. If you try and bribe him you will be arrested by the close of business.

You can get planning permission to build entire apartment blocks here with a brown envelope or a bottle of cheap ass wine for the local council, make it so the people that bought em can't live in em anymore, and retire happily to Spain.

Oh yea, I forgot, I have citizenship there too, so I never have to come back to this toilet seat pretending to be a functioning democracy.

Did you ever notice that Dublin for the most part stinks of stale urine. I don't think theres a wall in the entire city that hasn't been pissed on. In most places I can see the stains. Never noticed that kind of **** when I grew up here, sure as hell notice it now.

I'd rather be a drama queen anyday, than be you, walkin around with my head between my cheeks, smelling vaguely of old farts and Guiness

Enjoy it, you loser

starbelgrade

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

Oh yea, I forgot, I have citizenship there too, so I never have to come back to this toilet seat pretending to be a functioning democracy.

Mind the door doesn't hit you on the way out.

Malignant Paddy

starbelgrade wrote: »

Mind the door doesn't hit you on the way out.

I bet those other 17,000 posts are as interesting and original as that one, you could put them together, get yourself a publisher, go to print, and never ever run out of toilet paper.

Good luck with that.

gerryo777

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

Yes, drama. That must be what it is.

Still, I can afford to laugh at your comedic insight. I can also afford to laugh at your typically Irish dumbass response. You see, I'm not stuck here. Come January I'll be found smokin spliffs at the Big Day Out, surrounded by a sea of half naked smiling, happy and hot lookin broads. I'll have to wear sunblock because the sun will be out for more than 15 minutes.

I'll probably be laughing too when I wake up in a 3 bed townhouse in Darlinghurst, which I bought after I left this ****hole with the money I made from being gainfully employed far away from this welfare state.

By the way, it has increased in value since I bought it. Strange to buy a house only to see it increase in value. Novelty value not lost on me there. You can't erect a garden shed in Oz without planning permission, that means you can be guaranteed somebody from the council will be round to check it to see if it might potentially kill someone. If you try and bribe him you will be arrested by the close of business.

You can get planning permission to build entire apartment blocks here with a brown envelope or a bottle of cheap ass wine for the local council, make it so the people that bought em can't live in em anymore, and retire happily to Spain.

Oh yea, I forgot, I have citizenship there too, so I never have to come back to this toilet seat pretending to be a functioning democracy.

Did you ever notice that Dublin for the most part stinks of stale urine. I don't think theres a wall in the entire city that hasn't been pissed on. In most places I can see the stains. Never noticed that kind of **** when I grew up here, sure as hell notice it now.

I'd rather be a drama queen anyday, than be you, walkin around with my head between my cheeks, smelling vaguely of old farts and Guiness

Enjoy it, you loser

See ya so.
BTW there's 2 n's in Guinness.

Malignant Paddy

gerryo777 wrote: »

See ya so.
BTW there's 2 n's in Guinness.

Thanks, I'm all broken up about that. I'll write in tomorrow and beg for an edit.

daltonmd

Sizzler wrote: »

In other words he didnt legislate or think of that one so cue the brown stuff hitting the fan shortly on both sides, landlords in the hole as the rent doesnt cover the mortgage and a tenant who is just meeting the rent...two worlds colliding, wont be pretty but Phil the clown has washed his hands of it already.

Sweet!

They had to get a referendum to cut judges pay FFS so something "complex" like the above will probably need 10 years worth of legal investment LOL

I hate to break it to you, but it's already in the pipeline.

"The majority of the Fines Act 2010 has been commenced. Section 14, which was commenced last year, places an obligation on the court to take account of the defendant’s financial circumstances before a fine is imposed. The definition of “financial circumstances” is very wide and includes, for example, the aggregate amount of the person’s liabilities to provide financially for his or her family. It also includes the aggregate amount of moneys owed to the person, the date they fall due for payment and the likelihood of their being paid. As a result of this provision, no person can be sent to prison for default solely for the reason that he or she cannot afford to pay a fine.
Implementation work is continuing on two key sections of the Act. Section 15 provides for the payment of fines by instalment. There are a number of practical and technical issues required to commence this provision. As the House will appreciate, the current system of payment allows for only a single payment in respect of each fine to be made within a specified period, and this payment is recorded on the Courts Service IT system. In order to allow for a fine to be paid by instalments over a year, or in certain circumstances longer, as the Act provides, it is necessary for the IT system to be substantially modified to allow for the payment of instalments and to ensure that such instalments are accurately recorded and tracked. The Courts Service has put in place a structure to oversee the implementation of the necessary modifications. I am informed that, assuming the necessary funding is available, it will take approximately 12 months to complete the administrative and technical modifications required.
Section 16 of the 2010 Act will require a judge, consequent on determining that a fine is to be imposed, to make an order appointing an “approved person”, commonly referred to as a receiver, to recover the fine in the event of default. Again, some IT enhancements will be necessary in order to allow for the electronic transfer of recovery orders and data exchange with the receivers. I am informed this work will take approximately six months to complete and will be done concurrently to that mentioned above.
The Fines Act 2010 also includes provision for the use of community service as a sanction where a receiver has been unable to recover a fine or its value in seized goods. These provisions will be commenced when the necessary arrangements have been made to implement the receiver or recovery order provisions. The work that has been done on implementation of the Fines Act 2010 is of relevance to the question generally on what can be done by way of alternatives to custodial sentences associated with civil cases, because similar considerations arise as to the practicalities of what is involved. In so far as the further commitments in the programme for Government are concerned on possible alternatives to custodial sentences in civil cases, I have asked my Department to carry out the necessary examination with a view to bringing forward practical proposals."

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2011-09-28.325.0

You can bet your life that if this government get a sniff of dissent (and with 15 TD's leading the charge they have more of a sniff) that they will rush this in.

What they do not want is the court system clogged with people and if they are clogged then your 100 Euro will have a sweetner added to it to pay it.

Governments are slow to deal with those at the top - yet swift with the little people.

mfceiling

mountainyman wrote: »

I am paying it. I agree with property taxes. I won't be paying the 2% VAT increase.

Hilarious.....how can you avoid paying vat?
It's added automatically to your goods.
You'll be some operator in tesco/topaz/arnotts when you try to tell them you are paying the price prior to the vat increase and not the price displayed.
Best of luck with that...

doomed

Q1 Are people seriously planning to go to jail for something that costs less than one cigarette a day?

Q2 Did we really elect these people?


Q3 After all the things that have happened to this country are we really making a stand over a very low and long overdue property tax.

oldyouth

I'll probably pay up and I hope the majority of people do too. If this thing doesn't collect the projected revenue, the Government will do what they always do, by taking it at source off the softest target in our society, the PAYE worker. Then the PAYE worker will then have to subsidise the non-payers.

As a country, we're broke and yes, it will double or treble over the coming years. How painless did you expect the situation to be?

daltonmd

mfceiling wrote: »

Hilarious.....how can you avoid paying vat?
It's added automatically to your goods.
You'll be some operator in tesco/topaz/arnotts when you try to tell them you are paying the price prior to the vat increase and not the price displayed.
Best of luck with that...

In fairness, the VAT increase was chosen over a higher income tax because the government wanted to give you a choice how to spend your money. If you shop in Tesco and they pass on the increase then you can choose to shop somewhere else.

James T Kirk

Not only am I not gonna pay the so-called "household" charge, I'm not gonna pay any other "charge".

*Darth Vader music*

Toby Take a Bow

gigino wrote: »

Yes they are are for many people. Many people have little or no income and owe a lot of money.

To solve the problem of the household charge, the least they can do is refuse to increase the pay of those public servants ( pay incrtements ) paid over 80,000 per year. Thats the value of the property tax easily sorted

I presume those increments are built into the Croke Park agreement? They probably won't do that, if that's the case.

Here's a different solution: increase tax for those earning (say) €80,000 or more.

doomed wrote: »

Q1 Are people seriously planning to go to jail for something that costs less than one cigarette a day?

They are. If you read a couple pages back, you'll see the reasons for it are that they don't agree with a tax that is something like the poll tax in England in the 80s, that there is an element of 'the thin edge' to it and that people don't understand why bondholders are being paid back but we have to pay this charge.

doomed wrote: »

Q2 Did we really elect these people?

We did. Some of them have a history of objecting to similar things in the past and going to prison for it, so not only did we elect them, we were aware of their past history in doing so.

doomed wrote: »

Q3 After all the things that have happened to this country are we really making a stand over a very low and long overdue property tax.

I was out protesting most of last winter, but I take it you were too.