More stupid in America..

RichieC

Spread wrote: »

So, toss in 100,000 English speaking illegals ............ that would leave up to 4% non English (first language) illegals. You've only got to drive through most of California, Arizona, Texas and so on to see the counter folk rabbit away in their own lingo before asking if they can help you Sir.
On the other side, head to Florida ............ you get the same.

Not to mention Compton, Watts, Harlem and other areas where the indigenous population have only a tentative grasp of the lingua franca

This is not counting the older (legal) French Canadians that still speak the mother tongue.

Surely GOOGLE will come up with some numbers?

Even if every illegal in America spoke only Spanish it still wouldn't make up 5% of the US population. never mind our local apologist expert on all things America's estimation of 15%

I am pie

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/15/philadephia-police-taser-girl-video

Shocking place.

firefly08

Even if every illegal in America spoke only Spanish it still wouldn't make up 5% of the US population. never mind our local apologist expert on all things America's estimation of 15%

According to the US census bureau, over 35 million people in the US over the age of 5 speak Spanish.

While they don't indicate how may of these speak Spanish as their first language, given the American propensity for learning other languages (or lack thereof), it is likely that a very large proportion of them are native speakers. It is not just illegals, or even immigrants, for that matter. Spanish-speaking people have been settling in CA for longer than English speaking people.

Also bear in mind that there are about 38 million first generation immigrants in the US. They naturalize about a million new citizens per year. The great majority of these people speak English as a second language, if at all.

firefly08

Anyway consider this.

Ireland scores higher than the US on freedom rankings.

On economic freedom too although it's close.

Ireland scores higher than the US in democracy rankings.

Ireland scores way higher than the US for press freedom

Having lived in both countries, I do not believe a single one of these things. I think they are complete fiction. But then, I know nothing about the agenda of those who compiled these statistics. What I do know, with certainty, is that Americans enjoy far greater personal freedom and keep a lot more of the money they earn than we do.

Temptamperu

firefly08 wrote: »

Having lived in both countries, I do not believe a single one of these things. I think they are complete fiction. But then, I know nothing about the agenda of those who compiled these statistics. What I do know, with certainty, is that Americans enjoy far greater personal freedom and keep a lot more of the money they earn than we do.

Considering they earn 7:25 minimum wage which is roughly about 6 euro they arent earning a lot and because they dont pay much tax there country is banckrupt and would collapse completely if the saudis and chinese pulled theyre resources out.

Chuck Stone

firefly08 wrote: »

I do not believe a single one of these things. I think they are complete fiction. But then, I know nothing about the agenda of those who compiled these statistics.

Unless you have some evidence to suggest bias in those studies then your post is your biased opinion.

Back up your opinion or accept the findings.

firefly08

Considering they earn 7:25 minimum wage which is roughly about 6 euro they arent earning a lot

And yet with their living costs, it's enough to live comfortably.

and because they dont pay much tax there country is banckrupt

Really? Why is our country bankrupt then?! If you think that low taxes lead to bankruptcy, I am not sure where to start correcting you. I mean, think about what you're saying. If it made sense, Ireland would be in better economic shape than the US.

firefly08

Unless you have some evidence to suggest bias in those studies

I do actually. I pay less taxes and enjoy far greater personal freedom now that I live in America. If I moved home, I would have to give up some important aspects of my lifestyle due to restrictive laws. I would also have to work a lot harder to take home the same amount of money due to excessive taxation.

then your post is your biased opinion.

Despite having evidence to back up my opinion, I have not claimed that it is anything other than my opinion:

Me:

I do not believe a single one of these things. I think they are complete fiction

Back up your opinion or accept the findings.

Back up the findings or accept my opinion.

RichieC

firefly08 wrote: »

And yet with their living costs, it's enough to live comfortably.

okay now you're talking crazy. middle-class people in America need to have two wage households to maintain.

SamHarris

RichieC wrote: »

Even if every illegal in America spoke only Spanish it still wouldn't make up 5% of the US population. never mind our local apologist expert on all things America's estimation of 15%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States not including illegals. Wrong again.

Its like arguing with a religious zealot. :rolleyes:

Couldnt be bothered, to you it is a dogma, not based on facts, reality or figures so there is no fact, reality or figure I could pressent to you to change your mind. I made the mistake of applying a rationality to you and yours that does not exist.

But let us recap, shall we? We have evidence that the US, as 3% of the population of earth, has around 76 of the top 100 universities and an estimated 45% of new technological inovations come from there. 1/2 of all nobel prizes since its creation in science have went to that 3% of the population.

In retort, Richie and co have whinged about how stoooopid they are.
To anyone with an ounce of ability to analyse data this indicates a certain exceptionalism. Thats not my guess or opinion. THat is self evident fro mthe numbers. Thats not even what Im bothering to argue (althogh people of the caliber of Richie read what they wan obviously) I merely point out how utterly ridiculous this makes the charge of this place or its people being in anyway exceptionaly stupid.

You honeslty cant see how this reeks of childish inferiority complex?

What the hell are you even talking about apologist? Not that I would ever feel the need to apologise to you or anyone like you, but pointing out brazen facts is not a support or a comdemnation of anything except perhaps your own ability to hoodwink yourself.

I have absoultly no doubt that if anywhere near a majority, or even a big minority, of US citizens were around your level of deductive reasoning and basic comprehension the above statistics would be very very different.

SamHarris

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Unless you have some evidence to suggest bias in those studies then your post is your biased opinion.

Back up your opinion or accept the findings.

Not to do with where you ask for facts here but really to begin with the onus is on you and people like you to prove that the US is in anyway "dumb" so far all Ive gotten is an anonymous CIA agent in a diner in IL.

And, of course, the wonderful forum of Irish public opinion :rolleyes:

firefly08

okay now you're talking crazy. middle-class people in America need to have two wage households to maintain.

I am talking from first hand experience. I have a lot of friends who work in bars and restaurants etc. They actually earn less than the minimum wage, but make up more in tips, depending on how good they are at their job and how hard they work. Some of them are parents, some are single parents. They all get by quite well. I am not really sure what people mean by "middle-class" tbh, or if we even mean the same thing. The term is not used much among the American public so it's hard to know if it means the same thing.

I realize a lot of Irish people of my generation (I am 30) would consider themselves hard done by if they had the lifestyles of these friends of mine. But nevertheless they are happy and consider themselves reasonably well off, and would not trade places with the people of any other country in the world.

The Outside Agency

SamHarris wrote:

And, of course, the wonderful forum of Irish public opinion

Since it clearly upsets you so much, maybe you'd be happier on a British forum?

Wompa1

HeHe Good oul' predictable Boards. I love you Guys!

SamHarris

nivekd wrote: »

Since it clearly upsets you so much, maybe you'd be happier on a British forum?

Typical :rolleyes: Stupidity and ignorance does not upset me, but if peope proclaim it Ill challenge it.

If I were British and some of them were as prone to a stupid and as false a sense of superiorty I would, sure. But then then Im Irish and Im on this forum and its here that the constant claims go unchallenged, so what the hell?

Why, do you have anything to add that might indicate I am wrong? Any of my facts or figures that you think or made up or propoganda"

alphanine

firefly08 wrote: »

Having lived in both countries, I do not believe a single one of these things. I think they are complete fiction. But then, I know nothing about the agenda of those who compiled these statistics. What I do know, with certainty, is that Americans enjoy far greater personal freedom and keep a lot more of the money they earn than we do.

Totally agree, the anti-US key board warriors make me laugh. I too have lived in both countries and have an objective viewpoint on both countries. The OP has to be one of the most anti-US boards member, I wonder would he share his opinions with the locals if he ever went??

Chuck Stone

firefly08 wrote: »

Back up the findings or accept my opinion.

Lol. The laws of the universe are turned inside out in one little sentence.

Your personal experience =/= to empirical data.

I seek out and present findings from reputable sources but I have to back them up.

It's up to you to refute them. You've done no such thing.

SamHarris wrote: »

Not to do with where you ask for facts here but really to begin with the onus is on you and people like you to prove that the US is in anyway "dumb" so far all Ive gotten is an anonymous CIA agent in a diner in IL.

I never claimed the US is dumb.

Only people can be dumb. Dumbness doesn't have a nationality.

The Outside Agency

SamHarris wrote: »

Typical :rolleyes: Stupidity and ignorance does not upset me, but if peope proclaim it Ill challenge it.

If I were British and some of them were as prone to a stupid and as false a sense of superiorty I would, sure. But then then Im Irish and Im on this forum and its here that the constant claims go unchallenged, so what the hell?

Why, do you have anything to add that might indicate I am wrong? Any of my facts or figures that you think or made up or propoganda"

"Facts" -- you mean your opinion?

Is that what passes for factual information these days?

RichieC

nivekd wrote: »

Is that what passes for factual information these days?

When defending American excesses you are naturally on the high ground and don't need facts.

SamHarris

nivekd wrote: »

"Facts" -- you mean your opinion?

Is that what passes for factual information these days?

No I mean the facts I listed 3 posts ago

Wow, every single one of your have shot yourselves in the foot at least in the first or second lines your wrote. Stunning.

SamHarris

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I never claimed the US is dumb.

Only people can be dumb. Dumbness doesn't have a nationality.

Well then I am not arguing with you and must have mistaken you for someone else. Sorry.

SamHarris

RichieC wrote: »

When defending American excesses you are naturally on the high ground and don't need facts.

What the hell are you talking about?

Oh you mean me pointing out their excesses in success in science technology and third level education? Your right, those stoopid pigs just wont stop!

Someday, they will become as smart as you and put a stop to that quick as you blink!

Your posts have so little to do with what was said before it, your "opinions" on things are starting to make much more sense, in context.

laoch na mona

gob bless america the greatest country in the world
you gotta understand them arabs try and trick you into thinking there all nice n friendly and the next thing you know its 9-11 all over again but me and billy bob aint gonna let them

SamHarris

laoch na mona wrote: »

gob bless america the greatest country in the world
you gotta understand them arabs try and trick you into thinking there all nice n friendly and the next thing you know its 9-11 all over again but me and billy bob aint gonna let them

Im sure the irony of this is going to be completly lost on you...

firefly08

I seek out and present findings from reputable sources but I have to back them up.

You presented findings from Wikipedia. And a libertarian lobby group. Tell us more about this wonderful reputation your sources enjoy.

It's up to you to refute them. You've done no such thing.

As I've explained, I was only offering my opinion. Telling me that I have to either back up my opinion (which I have formed from experience) or else blindly accept Wikipedia is ridiculous, which I attempted to highlight with a ridiculous tongue-in-cheek statement of my own.

I know, as do most educated people, that it's not that difficult to present "irrefutable" statistics to back up basically anything you want. So I have not tried, and will not be trying, to refute these articles. As Mark Twain said: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".

But then he would say that, wouldn't he. He was an American. :P

Robdude

I can't believe the LoLz I'm reading in this thread. I honestly can't tell if people are trolling or serious.

I've lived in Ireland and the US.
I've worked in Ireland and the US.

There is a lot of bad things you can say about the US....but the median income for an American is higher than the median income for the Irish. Americans also pay less taxes. Americans have more disposable income than the Irish do.

They also work more hours than the Irish, have less vacation, and less legal protections around their employement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita_personal_income

You can say the US is bankrupt if you want. It has a lot of debt. But I don't think anyone could say, with a straight face, that the US is bankrupt and Ireland *isn't*. That's kind of the pot calling the kettle black. They're both pretty screwed.

What I find most amusing is how exactly the same people are; particularly the ones that want to emphasize how different they are. I come here and I read about Irish people enumerating all the ways the US sucks. In the US...to be perfectly honest....nobody talks about Ireland - except possibly to talk closing tax loopholes that allow American corporations to setup shop in the US (stealing our jobs!!!!) - but once I tell them I live in Ireland, or that I was going to move to Ireland - it was all the same stuff but in reverse.

Ireland is bankrupt. They Euro is going to fail. They have record unemployement. They don't like forigeners.

Of course, nobody seems to like forigeners. When I was in the US, I heard about immigrants stealing our jobs. I'm in the tech-sector and in the US I'd hear about H1-b visas stealing our good programming/software/it jobs. Then I come to Ireland and get a similar job and I hear Irish people complain about outsiders coming in and 'stealing' jobs.

It's pretty stupid in both cases; but I get an extra chuckle out of it here because I've 'stolen' a job with a US company.

Naturally, the American's have a problem with this too. Because the US company is in Ireland and believes that Ireland is stealing their jobs. In short, everyone thinks everyone is stealing their jobs.

And everyone thinks that their quality of life is better. Particularly people who've never gone anywhere else. The US has more crime, particularly violent crime. I also think (this is just my personal feeling) that the relationship between the police/gardia is a lot better in Ireland than the US. There are a lot more choices for education in the US - but it's awfully darn expensive compared to Ireland. But the cost of living to income ratio is a lot better in the US. I could afford nicer everything in the US. Things like sinks with two faceuts (because that's cheaper) are unheard of in the US. The appliances I find here remind me of stuff from the 80s in the US. I'm not saying Ireland doesn't have the same top-end stuff the US (it does). But I'm talking about what the average person can afford.

Ireland is a great place to live.
So is the United States.

I don't know why I can't go a week without seeing a bunch of people on this forum fighting over themselves to explain how the US sucks though.....

SamHarris

Robdude wrote: »

I can't believe the LoLz I'm reading in this thread. I honestly can't tell if people are trolling or serious.

I've lived in Ireland and the US.
I've worked in Ireland and the US.

There is a lot of bad things you can say about the US....but the median income for an American is higher than the median income for the Irish. Americans also pay less taxes. Americans have more disposable income than the Irish do.

They also work more hours than the Irish, have less vacation, and less legal protections around their employement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita_personal_income

You can say the US is bankrupt if you want. It has a lot of debt. But I don't think anyone could say, with a straight face, that the US is bankrupt and Ireland *isn't*. That's kind of the pot calling the kettle black. They're both pretty screwed.

What I find most amusing is how exactly the same people are; particularly the ones that want to emphasize how different they are. I come here and I read about Irish people enumerating all the ways the US sucks. In the US...to be perfectly honest....nobody talks about Ireland - except possibly to talk closing tax loopholes that allow American corporations to setup shop in the US (stealing our jobs!!!!) - but once I tell them I live in Ireland, or that I was going to move to Ireland - it was all the same stuff but in reverse.

Ireland is bankrupt. They Euro is going to fail. They have record unemployement. They don't like forigeners.

Of course, nobody seems to like forigeners. When I was in the US, I heard about immigrants stealing our jobs. I'm in the tech-sector and in the US I'd hear about H1-b visas stealing our good programming/software/it jobs. Then I come to Ireland and get a similar job and I hear Irish people complain about outsiders coming in and 'stealing' jobs.

It's pretty stupid in both cases; but I get an extra chuckle out of it here because I've 'stolen' a job with a US company.

Naturally, the American's have a problem with this too. Because the US company is in Ireland and believes that Ireland is stealing their jobs. In short, everyone thinks everyone is stealing their jobs.

And everyone thinks that their quality of life is better. Particularly people who've never gone anywhere else. The US has more crime, particularly violent crime. I also think (this is just my personal feeling) that the relationship between the police/gardia is a lot better in Ireland than the US. But the cost of living to income ratio is a lot better in the US. I could afford nicer everything in the US. Things like sinks with two faceuts (because that's cheaper) are unheard of in the US. The appliances I find here remind me of stuff from the 80s in the US. I'm not saying Ireland doesn't have the same top-end stuff the US (it does). But I'm talking about what the average person can afford.

I said basically this 4 pages ago. Prepare to get a lecture about some unemurated US "Excesses" from Richie, you damn APLOGIST!

The Outside Agency

SamHarris wrote:

Typical Stupidity and ignorance does not upset me, but if peope proclaim it Ill challenge it.

But of course, everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and ignorant.

You're the voice of reason.

SamHarris

nivekd wrote: »

But of course, everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and ignorant.

You're the voice of reason.

No people who proclaim Americans are stupid because, for example, they judge people of foreign nationalities/ cutlures are stupid and ignorant. Can you see why?

Also people without basic comprehension skills. Can you guess who Im talking about

Not good at this, are you?

The quality of those disagreeing with me and how they go about it says a thing or two about the opinion itself, Im finding.

The Outside Agency

SamHarris wrote:

No people who proclaim Americans are stupid because, for example, they judge people of foreign nationalities/ cutlures are stupid. Can you see why?

Also people without basic comprehension skills. Can you guess who Im talking about

Not good at this, are you?

The quality of those disagreeing with me and how they go about it says a thing or two about the opinion itself, Im finding.

You just give em hell, Sam!

I support you 100%...Sam is the man!