More stupid in America..

Chuck Stone

It would be interesting if there was a show about how both Jews and Muslims mutilate the genitals of their children by routinely hacking the foreskin off baby boys.

Can you imagine the loud and meaningless bleating about religious freedom? The freedom to mutilate the genitals of babies which isn't freedom at all but a lack of freedom from religious edict?

'If you stop me from taking a blade to my kid's genitals I am being oppressed..'

Get fucked.

Benny_Cake

The fact that a group calling itself the "Florida Family Association" is up in arms over a show which would seem to give a positive view of families and family values in general is actually unsurprising at this stage. Anti-Muslim bigotry is alive and well and not just in America. What is incredible to me is the utter spinelessness of the companies concerned - if ever there was a case for a boycott this is it.

Benny_Cake

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It would be interesting if there was a show about how both Jews and Muslims mutilate the genitals of their children by routinely hacking the foreskin off baby boys.

Can you imagine the loud and meaningless bleating about religious freedom? The freedom to mutilate the genitals of babies which isn't freedom at all but a lack of freedom from religious edict?

'If you stop me from taking a blade to my kid's genitals I am being oppressed..'

Get fucked.

You do know that most American boys are circumcised - for entirely non-religious reasons?

Ellis Dee

There was a time when the Jews were blamed for everything - from economic depressions to decadence in the arts and the spread of diseases like syphilis from animals to humans. This went on for centuries, because the Romans had killed a troublemaker and rebel called, probably, Christ and framed the Jews for it, and the Christian church(es) had perpetuated the fiction that the Jews bore collective guilt for this crime.:rolleyes:

Besides, it suited them to have a bogeyman to scare the sheeple and keep them in line and contributing their money.:)

This really went to extremes under the German National Socialists, who exploited the pool of suspicion, fear and prejudice that the Christian churches had already created and tarred all Jews with the same brush on all fronts. It is fascinating to read some of the stuff - anecdotes, "factual" reports, even jokes - that was written in the Völkischer Beobachter, for instance.

And we all know what it led to.:eek:

Now, I fear, the same thing is happening with the Muslims, the new ersatz Jews, the scapegoats that those in power in places like the USA need to divert the sheeple's eyes from the real wrongs in their societies.

Every time you badmouth Muslims in general, you are doing the same thing as the stupid Germans who fell for Hitler's and Goebbels' line and went along with the Nazi cause in the 1930s and later.:(

philologos

Ellis Dee wrote: »

There was a time when the Jews were blamed for everything - from economic depressions to decadence in the arts and the spread of diseases like syphilis from animals to humans. This went on for centuries, because the Romans had killed a troublemaker and rebel called, probably, Christ and framed the Jews for it, and the Christian church(es) had perpetuated the fiction that the Jews bore collective guilt for this crime.:rolleyes:

This is nonsense. Why would the Jews who opposed Christ suffer for His presence? - The Romans duly dealt with the Christians for that.

The reason the Jews were expelled from Israel was because of Simeon bar Kochkba's revolt in 120AD against the Roman authorities. This had been the third Jewish uprising in about a century. The previous had been the 66AD revolt. They were expelled as a result of this.

Please do some research before posting.

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Besides, it suited them to have a bogeyman to scare the sheeple and keep them in line and contributing their money.:)

What bogeyman? - It makes very little sense given that Christians believed and still believe that Jesus had to die to pay the price for sin on the cross, and that He was raised again. If one really believed that, how could one possibly be angry about it.

This is why in John's Gospel Jesus says the following to the disciples:

Truly, truly, I say to you, you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy

Some people created a bizarre strawman of Christian belief, but that doesn't mean that it was genuine Christian belief that caused it.

Ellis Dee wrote: »

This really went to extremes under the German National Socialists, who exploited the pool of suspicion, fear and prejudice that the Christian churches had already created and tarred all Jews with the same brush on all fronts. It is fascinating to read some of the stuff - anecdotes, "factual" reports, even jokes - that was written in the Völkischer Beobachter, for instance.

Again, nonsense given how many churches in Germany and throughout Europe openly opposed Hitler.

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Now, I fear, the same thing is happening with the Muslims, the new ersatz Jews, the scapegoats that those in power in places like the USA need to divert the sheeple's eyes from the real wrongs in their societies.

Every time you badmouth Muslims in general, you are doing the same thing as the stupid Germans who fell for Hitler's and Goebbels' line and went along with the Nazi cause in the 1930s and later.:(

I guess this is Christianity's fault too somehow?

I wish that you would actually look to what Christianity actually proclaims rather than continually bashing it. It's like someone doing a book-review without having read the book.

krudler

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It would be interesting if there was a show about how both Jews and Muslims mutilate the genitals of their children by routinely hacking the foreskin off baby boys.

Can you imagine the loud and meaningless bleating about religious freedom? The freedom to mutilate the genitals of babies which isn't freedom at all but a lack of freedom from religious edict?

'If you stop me from taking a blade to my kid's genitals I am being oppressed..'

Get fucked.

circumcision is the norm in white christian American families too, nothing to do with religion.

krudler

philologos wrote: »

I guess this is Christianity's fault too somehow?

I wish that you would actually look to what Christianity actually proclaims rather than continually bashing it. It's like someone doing a book-review without having read the book.

If more christians read the bible there'd be a lot less christians.

philologos

krudler wrote: »

If more christians read the bible there'd be a lot less christians.

Bible-focused churches are the ones which tend to grow. Churches which teach a liberal-theology (or a compromising theology) tend to be in decline.

I was just challenging some of the false claims about Christianity posted by Ellis Dee.

I would argue that if more atheists actually read the Bible systematically with an open mind that they might become Christians. I've heard and I've seen a number of cases of this actually happening. Anyone can put themselves in an ivory-tower to prevent being challenged.

krudler

philologos wrote: »

Bible-focused churches are the ones which tend to grow. Churches which teach a liberal-theology (or a compromising theology) tend to be in decline.

I was just challenging some of the false claims about Christianity posted by Ellis Dee.

I would argue that if more atheists actually read the Bible systematically with an open mind that they might become Christians. I've heard and I've seen a number of cases of this actually happening. Anyone can put themselves in an ivory-tower to prevent being challenged.

I've read the bible, which is more than my supposed catholic friends can say. its not a bad read, death, destruction, people being fed to lions, its even got a zombie in it.

philologos

Others can do as they wish, but if you're going to criticise the Bible or Christian belief on boards.ie, I think it's highly fair that I can challenge such criticism in return.

Don't you?

I expect anyone who is an outspoken critic of Christianity or the Bible to be knowledgeable about both. If not I start to question as to how much it is an intellectual argument rather than an emotional argument.

To address the OP: I think what's happened in relation to that advertising is totally wrong. I think national fear and hysteria over one particular demographic is particularly terrifying.

Temptamperu

philologos wrote: »

To address the OP: I think what's happened in relation to that advertising is totally wrong. I think national fear and hysteria over one particular demographic is particularly terrifying.

Its exactly what the Nazi's did to the Jews in the 30's. Infact a lot of the american way of life these days is a lot like the Nazi party. The flag waving militant hate speech especially by these presidential hopefuls smacks of a nationalist agenda.

Ronin247

philologos wrote: »

Others can do as they wish, but if you're going to criticise the Bible or Christian belief on boards.ie, I think it's highly fair that I can challenge such criticism in return.

Don't you?

I expect anyone who is an outspoken critic of Christianity or the Bible to be knowledgeable about both. If not I start to question as to how much it is an intellectual argument rather than an emotional argument.

To address the OP: I think what's happened in relation to that advertising is totally wrong. I think national fear and hysteria over one particular demographic is particularly terrifying.

The bible is a story book which has no basis in truth so why would I need to have knowledge of it to be a critic.

Jesus died and came back to life and god made the world,enough there for me to call shenanigans.

Ellis Dee

Philologos, read my post again. Slowly this time, and think. It often helps.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ellis Dee

philologos wrote: »

Others can do as they wish, but if you're going to criticise the Bible or Christian belief on boards.ie, I think it's highly fair that I can challenge such criticism in return.

By all means! You are perfectly entitled to post your views, no matter how ridiculous they may seem to others.;) Bear in mind, however, that this is After Hours, not the Christianity forum where you usually lurk. There, you will be the first to report any post by anyone who does not accept the absurd, beyond ridiculous myths that xians foolishly believe, and the religious fundamentalist moderators will instantly ban the dissenter. Here, you have to read views that you may not like. Boo-hoo!:eek: In other words, After Hours is not the kind of incestuous comfort zone that the Christianity forum is for you. Live with it!:D

By the way, I have read the Bible in great detail, and I hope you don't mind me saying it is a good read in some ways, but a complete pile of crap in others. I could re-read it a hundred times, but I'm never going to believe all that doo-doo about the wonderful garden with the magic tree, the talking snake, the ephemeral spirit that impregnates the Palestinian virgin, etc., etc.

Why don't you read the RigVeda all the way through a few times and see whether you become a Hindu?:pac::pac:

markesmith

Let's face it, America's not in a good place, mentally, at the moment. Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry and all that.

Dermighty

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Fucking appalling.

Can you imagine the fucking stink that would be kicked up if this was a Jewish or Black or Christian family?

But they don't fly planes into buildings like ALL MUSLIMS do... :rolleyes:

I agree btw

philologos

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Philologos, read my post again. Slowly this time, and think. It often helps.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your post is filled with historical falsehoods. I corrected them. What's wrong with that other than the facts don't suit your atheistic worldview.

I'm entitled to take your criticisms of Christianity to task and I expect no protection.

If you have a problem report my posts. I will submit to the advice of the boards.ie moderation team.

Biggins

El Weirdo wrote: »

That's fucking mental. Have you got a link to this story, OP?

Links all over the net for it:

* http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2872467

* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072499/All-American-Muslim-Advertisers-away-TLCs-new-reality-show.html

* http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=108

* http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1146634

...Just for example.

Chuck Stone

Benny_Cake wrote: »

You do know that most American boys are circumcised - for entirely non-religious reasons?

krudler wrote: »

circumcision is the norm in white christian American families too, nothing to do with religion.

I don't think it's the norm anymore but even if it was, so what?

It's a barbaric act.

SamHarris

RichieC wrote: »

It's a country where the religious fringes (mostly Christian supremacists) have an awful lot of power.

Your inability to recognise that almost all your opinions are anecdotal is absolutly stunning. According to actual evidence, anti Muslim sentiment is far stronger in Western Europe, and I have no doubt Ireland, than it is in the US http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/06/22/the-great-divide-how-westerners-and-muslims-view-each-other/

Lets try a thought experiment, shall we? I start start a thread in AH saying that I am American, not true but just for the sake, and pointing out the "fact" that Muslim world is filled with stupid people because - by your own criteria - they are incredibly religious and becoming more so by and large.

More, that despite numbering in the 100's of millions they do not have one major university and contrbute little or nothing in the pursuit of science or technology. Not something that can be leveled at Americans, but just to drive home my point.

Its not too far a stretch to assume it would be you and the type of people that thanked your original post that would use it as an example of american's stupidity, ignorance of the world, bigotry, hate and false sense of superiority.

Indeed, I have no doubt I would receive a warning or banning because of how enormously insulting and bigoted that post is, the same would happen if I were to say the same about Africans for example. But leaving that aside...


Im certain that the consequences of this idea will be lost on you and people like you, however, so Ill spell it out for you - You and people like you are EXACTLY the same as those portion of Americans you choose to represent the 300+million of them, the so called "ugly American". Transplant your ideas of cultural, intellectual and personal superiority into the context of the States and you ARE that guy on boards.com making posts about "More stupid in the Middle East.." or about "Mooslims all being terrorists".

Again, I dont think you will believe it, or show the capacity to argue against it, but then I dont expect the same from the 10% of Americans that make up Foxtardation either. I just hope none of you have an Irish education, as this ability to be so unself aware is an indication of a profoundly flawed one.

cafecolour

Eh. America is no better and no worse than the empires that preceded it. Unfortunately, they'll probably be no better or no worse than the empires that will rise when it (soon) declines.

The problem is consumption and human greed. The ruling class of the empire (and to some extension, it's lesser citizens) want more and more, and they consume more than their fair share of resources, from the states which they rule.

In general though, resources are flowing from the '3rd world' countries to the 1st world one. And I hate to break the news, but at this point Ireland as well is more on the consumer side of things than the '3rd world' side of things.

Honestly, if you want to have any moral stance in this sort of thing, you've got to cut your own consumption. Make sure you don't consume any american goods (media, electronics, foods, clothing, etc...) for one, if you have an anti-american bent, or your simply enabling, the same for other companies that don't function responsibly. Make sure your food comes from responsible sources, the energy powering your home isn't coming from some puppet state, etc.

Very few do this of course (myself included, except to a very nominal degree), and near impossible to do without being a crazy hippy farmer somewere. But I'm not going to pretend bitching about it doesn't make me not actually part of the problem

Solnskaya

lcrcboy wrote: »

the USA and its bad treatment of occupy wall street protesters does not come anywhere near the level of violence the Syrian government has committed against its people, nearly 4000 people so far have died.

OOOPS, my bad.............. Just for sh1ts and giggles, whats the running total of Iraqi citizens killed by US forces? I'm well sure it's less than 4000, oh no, hang on......... pffffft.:rolleyes:

SamHarris

To people that use the good old "Land of the free, dont make me laugh rofl!" its very very clear that if people actually beleived americans were oppressed and not free they would use the same tone people use for oppressed people everywhere - one of pitty. The fact it becomes some kind of joke to these people is very indicative that the people who say it barely believe themselves on the issue. They just merely wish to look like they are making a cutting political point without having the knowledge or ability to do so.

Just out of curiousity can you name 3 freedoms, Richie, that we in Ireland have but is banned by Federal law in the states? I can think of a few that they have that we do not, but then everyone can do that. Again, merely pointing out how intellectuaclly vacuos and facile these peoples opinions are - as its high time someone did it.

SamHarris

Solnskaya wrote: »

OOOPS, my bad.............. Just for sh1ts and giggles, whats the running total of Iraqi citizens killed by US forces? I'm well sure it's less than 4000, oh no, hang on......... pffffft.:rolleyes:

Whats your point?

Solnskaya

SamHarris wrote: »

To people that use the good old "Land of the free, dont make me laugh rofl!" its very very clear that if people actually beleived americans were oppressed and not free they would use the same tone people use for oppressed people everywhere - one of pitty. The fact it becomes some kind of joke to these people is very indicative that the people who say it barely believe themselves on the issue. They just merely wish to look like they are making a cutting political point without having the knowledge or ability to do so.

Just out of curiousity can you name 3 freedoms, Richie, that we in Ireland have but is banned by Federal law in the states? I can think of a few that they have that we do not, but then everyone can do that. Again, merely pointing out how intellectuaclly vacuos and facile these peoples opinions are - as its high time someone did it.

Have you ever been there? The cops have more power than they have in Russia ffs. You do not feck with an American cop, on pain of getting a new hole. Freedom me armse.

Solnskaya

SamHarris wrote: »

Whats your point?

the top of my head?? Whats yours? BTW, I presume you are intellectually challenged, therefore I pity you, but in a good way:)..

SamHarris

Solnskaya wrote: »

the top of my head?? Whats yours? BTW, I presume you are intellectually challenged, therefore I pity you, but in a good way:)..

...Really not that convuluted a question, whats your point?

SamHarris

Solnskaya wrote: »

Have you ever been there? The cops have more power than they have in Russia ffs. You do not feck with an American cop, on pain of getting a new hole. Freedom me armse.

Ive been over this before. Google Anecdotal evidence. Really are you finding it this hard to keep up? If you dont even know this there is no point in me debating with you, perhaps you should sit a class on how to argue first.

Solnskaya

SamHarris wrote: »

...Really not that convuluted a question, whats your point?

It's convoluted. I cannot un-convolute it for you. You do realise that the whole "America's great, kinda jazzy man, really free dude!" Shyte is a big myth don't you? Err, you do, don't you?....

SamHarris

Solnskaya wrote: »

It's convoluted. I cannot un-convolute it for you. You do realise that the whole "America's great, kinda jazzy man, really free dude!" Shyte is a big myth don't you? Err, you do, don't you?....

Im done with you, your clearly a 16 year old.