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More stupid in America..
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You say people say these things about America because they are uneducated etc etc.
No I say it is the incredibly stupid people that continually come on here pointing out how "stupid" America is because, for example, a private company pulled a private show from a network. I'm sure to them this is the heigth of reasoned discourse, but to many others there are actual measures of the intellecctual capacity of a nation... Say for example, education or a lead in science and technology? Yes I do believe people are incredibly childish when they ignore such obvious representations of a countries superiority in some regards so as to perpetrate a sterotype they feel comfortable with.
Never said anything about being uneducated, but given the widespread nature of this idea the quality of an education that lets such a core idea of so many go so unquestioned is certainly suspect.In my experience its usually the uneducated that love America and claim those that don't as anti American. & the educated, who are aware of the actual realities of America and not the hollywood version that are so highly critical.
Anecdotal evidence, and a very clear attempt to group yourself and your opinion on a single matter wt with others. :rolleyes:
I remind you no one said anything about american foreign policy, that is yet another lovely straw man created to try an make what is really an indefensible position easy to defend.
I am refering to the near constant "Lol dum fook Americans!" the tone being if ONLY they were as clever as us the world would be a better place. Given the methods used to defend the stance so far - straw men, anecdotal evidence and ad hominum you continually reinforce my very poor first impressions of where these misconceptions came frome, and why they persist.But people don't criticise America out of hate. Imo it's ultimately out of fear.
Maybe, but then thats the case in the Middle East and even there they are not childish enough to believe Americans are dumb and that they are so very very clever - they criticise the foreign policy. Some people do that here. Most on this thread have the delightful "stupid" idea stuck in their head, very obviously a product of not being able to compete on actual intellectual grounds. None feel the need to say how "stupid" various african groups are, or Iranians or Arabs for being vastly more religious than the US. Governments (not private groups) routinely cancel and change shows to show ethnic groups in "the right light". But god forbid if this were to make millions of them stupid in anyones eyes! The stupid ones are the guys who develop more technogy and have better universities than the rest of the world combined, despite being 3% of the worlds population. Its text book inferiority complex, bending over backwards to prove that despite all appearnces WE are better than THEM.
If it is so obvious, then please hit me with more CIA stories, they were good. Or failing that, some actual tangible evidence for your stricly held belief? As you can see, there is plenty to the contrary but then Americans would not feel the need to try and belittle Irish people personally, regardless of its countries Middle Eastern Policy.It's an extremely powerful and influential country. And when it and its people do bad things or display horrible ignorance while proclaiming to be the beacon of light for humanity its pretty horrifying.
So you believe Britain during the 1800 was especially stupid? Rome during its rise? Agression has little to do with intelleigence except in that power and influence is gained by intelligence and the more power you have the easier and more common warfare becomes. Other than that you are not rebutting any point *I* have made anyway.It's scary how ignorant a lot of American's appear to be. The ignorant are easily manipulated. How Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin and so on have such a following is shocking.
Ah and now we come to yet another cliché. Bill o Reilly is popular therefore his followers are stupid. he has aprox 2.5 million viewers on average. Thats less than a % of the population. Perhaps, and this might be crazy, but YOU and people that hold your views are again exactly the type taken in by bull**** media, not checking the actual numbers but content to be fear mongered to (albiet towards a different scource, Americans) by YOUR media outlet of choice (probably the Gardian or RT or al Jazeera or what have you).
You honeslty cant see the parallels?
You are terrified by a tiny % of the population of an enormous state, without being aware of the numbers or beliefs involved in that % but you do feel it is more than enough to pull everything into question and particularly the intelligence of those that share a nationality with them? Again less that .4%...
^I want you to read those last two paragrpahs, see if you can change one or two nouns and you will see (hopefully by now) how EXACTLY like the worst of them you are. It would be funny for me if there wasnt so damn many of you people...We would actually all love if America was the saviour of humanity it deems itself to be but unfortunately it keeps lying to us.
It's extremely important to criticise. For the sake of the world itself.
Criticise away if you have valid, well thought out ideas. If your idea of criticism is ":D they r sooooo stupid! Man Im glad us Irish are more clever!" then dont bother. Because I will point out how stupid and childish your ideas are, ESPECIALLY when juxtaposed beside the "stupid Americans" you deem so dangerous.
You people actually draw Caricatures of yourselves without noticing it :rolleyes:0 -
Arianna_26 wrote: »Yes, I'm feeling very ashamed - ashamed for you that you are Irish but because your mother from America you have felt the need to tell us 'Irish' that we are wrong about America.
Yes I noticed how uncomfortable my fellow Irish get when they are called up on any misconception they deem close to their heart. Its all part of growing up. If you hold a childish opinion then keep it to yourself.
If you think I would say nothing whilst in the States if some douche kept saying Irish people were stupid, with no evidence other than a handful of anecdotal stories, you are wrong yet again. But then it never has happened there around me, a level of maturity and comfort with their own nations achievments prevents it even when my nationality does come up. Not here though. Guess we are all just to smart to let something like that go over our heads :rolleyes:Arianna_26 wrote: »If you identify so much with America why not move there?
Cannot wait I assure you. I will miss Ireland for nearly everything except this constant BS.Arianna_26 wrote: »I remember in that Republican debate I mentioned earlier one of the candidates said they consider China a threat because it was a growing economic power.
A fair assesment. Dont run for the presidency.Arianna_26 wrote: »I see a similar level of arrogance in this thread, a need to be the best otherwise the world is unstable. Yes, us Irish are completely ignorant and less educated than Americans, we don't understand anything and are incapable of forming arguments :rolleyes:
Dont know what you mean by the first sentance, they want to be the best for personal, and cultural much more than national reasons.
Never said that. I did say that alot of you are illustrating beautifully how you can act exactly like those Americans you deem to hate so much, without an ounce of irony.
Something tells me you dont even know what I am arguing. Read back to my first post. If you DO an just keep making strawmen anyway, Im going to ignore you.0 -
You're really not doing as good a job here as you seem to be congratulating yourself about. But please, continue. It's good watching you attacking the posters rather than the topic at hand all while calling fallacies where you deem them to be. Calling peoples posts hearsay and rumour while knowing (by magic I presume) the motives of the posters.
It's hilarious, mate, keep it up, fair play to you.
Not once have I attacked a poster unless they got snyde. Have not received any warning for it either, which would indicate people agree with me.
What you PROBABLY mistook it for is attacking their methods. Just because they look ridiculous after it is not my fault. I have no doubt the same would happen to you were you to actually try make a point with regards to your point of view. . . Again.
I called a post hear say and rumour when it was demonstrobally not in the post? Please point away!
No by deduction, induction and following some basic rules of logic. Im sure it LOOKS like magic to you. It means...Well it might as well be magic to people like you.0 -
Not once have I attacked a poster unless they got snyde. Have not received any warning for it either, which would indicate people agree with me.
no it doesn't, only a very small percentage of forum users would ever report a post.What you PROBABLY mistook it for is attacking their methods. Just because they look ridiculous after it is not my fault. I have no doubt the same would happen to you were you to actually try make a point with regards to your point of view. . . Again.
I called a post hear say and rumour when it was demonstrobally not in the post? Please point away!
No by deduction and induction. It means...Well it might as well be magic to people like you.
This looks like word salad to me. perhaps I'm tired.0 -
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My case and point about assuming that everyone in the US was happy about the decision:
http://consumerist.com/2011/12/legislators-call-for-a-boycott-of-lowes-after-it-pulled-ads-from-american-muslims-tv-show.htmlLowe's seems to have jumped right from the frying pan into the fire, amidst a controversial move to pull its advertising from a show on TLC about American Muslim families. So far at least one legislator is calling for a boycott of the store for doing so.
The ads were pulled from TLC's All-American Muslim, a show about five families in the Detroit area, after a conservative group called the Florida Family Association complained. The group claimed the show was "propaganda that riskily hides the Islamic agenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values," says the Associated Press.
California Sen. Ted. Lieu says Lowe's actions are "un-American" and "naked religious bigtory," and sent a complaint letter to Lowe's Chief Executive Officer Robert A. Niblock.
"The show is about what it's like to be a Muslim in America, and it touches on the discrimination they sometimes face. And that kind of discrimination is exactly what's happening here with Lowe's," Lieu said.
Lowe's issued a statement saying:
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"Individuals and groups have strong political and societal views on this topic, and this program became a lightning rod for many of those views," the statement said. "As a result we did pull our advertising on this program. We believe it is best to respectfully defer to communities, individuals and groups to discuss and consider such issues of importance."
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Lieu doesn't think that's good enough, and is going to investigate if Lowe's actions violate any California laws, as well as drafting a potential resolution officially condemning the company.
"We want to raise awareness so that consumers will know during this holiday shopping season that Lowe's is engaging in religious discrimination," Lieu said. The decision on whether or not to proceed with a boycott is expected later this week.
Lowe's threatened with boycott for yanking ads from show about Muslims [Chicago Tribune]0 -
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RichieC, are you butthurt because the Berlin wall came down?0
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Sam you need to get out a bit more
And what is wrong with 16 year olds? Or is there a divine ratio of age:IQ I wasnt told about?
Ah more ad hominum. Just one example of intellectual dominance after another, no wonder we do so well . . .
I really dont care if you think I should get out more, given you nothing about me. For all you know Im not just much much more clever than you but also better looking and more outgoing. The wonders of the internet!
I can already tell from this one comment, however, that you or either confused/stupid (by being unable to argue a position or attack my own, but to give it a go anyway) or childish, as the comment clearly is. You really shouldnt leave yourself so open to empirical criticism on the internet. It does not boad well for how you argue in real life.
You mean besides the massive scientific evidence that there is a corrolation in quality of IQ and age? The reason I wouldnt bother arguing with a 16 year old because by and large everything they think is based on their own opinion, nothing more. If he wanted to prove me wrong he could have. Instead, despite being 40, he claimed his opinion was actually brought about through discussion with a former CIA member over breakfast. I swear you people make parodys of yourselves and are too self obsessed to even see it. Maybe with time. Or education. Id recommend you start by reading - as you just found out few people are going to tell you about the corellation between IQ and age. "Divine" or otherwise :rolleyes:
So far everyone's complete inability to do anything but whine and try and insult me proves my point perfectly. Knuckle draggers are everywhere, just drawing attention to the fact the ones in the US and the ones in Ireland look REMARKABLY similiar, and hopefully represent a similar % of each population.0 -
Ah more ad hominum. Just one example of intellectual dominance after another, no wonder we do so well . . .
I really dont care if you think I should get out more, given you nothing about me. For all you know Im not just much much more clever than you but also better looking and more outgoing. The wonders of the internet!
I can already tell from this one comment, however, that you or either confused/stupid (by being unable to argue a position or attack my own, but to give it a go anyway) or childish, as the comment clearly is. You really shouldnt leave yourself so open to empirical criticism on the internet. It does not boad well for how you argue in real life.
You mean besides the massive scientific evidence that there is a corrolation in quality of IQ and age? The reason I wouldnt bother arguing with a 16 year old because by and large everything they think is based on their own opinion, nothing more. If he wanted to prove me wrong he could have. Instead, despite being 40, he claimed his opinion was actually brought about through discussion with a former CIA member over breakfast. I swear you people make parodys of yourselves and are too self obsessed to even see it. Maybe with time. Or education. Id recommend you start by reading - as you just found out few people are going to tell you about the corellation between IQ and age. "Divine" or otherwise :rolleyes:
So far everyone's complete inability to do anything but whine and try and insult me proves my point perfectly. Knuckle draggers are everywhere, just drawing attention to the fact the ones in the US and the ones in Ireland look REMARKABLY similiar, and hopefully represent a similar % of each population.
How did I think even for an instant that you would not see through me? I thought if I keep the comment brief I might not get recognised as one of 'you people'
Your intellect is indeed impressive. You should write a book.0 -
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Good! Someone's changed the record.:) It was gettig a little tedious.0
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How did I think even for an instant that you would not see through me? I thought if I keep the comment brief I might not get recognised as one of 'you people'
Your intellect is indeed impressive. You should write a book.
The give away was you shooting yourself in the foot not once but twice in the span of 2 small sentances. People with a false sense of their own superiority will often flag their own stupidity, takes nothing special from me to be able to spot it.
I seriously doubt the type of people I addressed in the first post read all that much. In other regards I am far more interested in learning than teaching. Just this once I decided to point out to some of what is obvious to most and see if they could actually address my accusations. No such luck... Apparantly they are too clever to explain why they are so much more clever than others. They are just that clever. :rolleyes:0 -
YIS ARE ALL BOLLIXES0
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The thing is Dell, Walmart, Lowes and Campbells are not stupid, they are world leaders in each of their respective field and evidently understand their customer base.
America is at war with a Muslin Jihad and fanatics. Whether you agree with this or not that does not matter, each of the above companies are a well known brand and they will rightly protect that brand no matter what.
I maybe a thick Irish man but if I was these companies I would have done the same. Like here how would you like to see Irish tourism promoted by our beloved scumbags.0 -
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The thing is Dell, Walmart, Lowes and Campbells are not stupid, they are world leaders in each of their respective field and evidently understand their customer base.
America is at war with a Muslin Jihad and fanatics. Whether you agree with this or not that does not matter, each of the above companies are a well known brand and they will rightly protect that brand no matter what.
I maybe a thick Irish man but if I was these companies I would have done the same. Like here how would you like to see Irish tourism promoted by our beloved scumbags.
Well said 44leto. Some of the above are talking through their tailpipes. And all for the love of Allah!0 -
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Think of any ACTUAL ideas yet for freedoms we enjoy here and they dont there? Its been quite a while.
'We' don't have one of the worlds largest prison populations per capita. I understand that correlation is not causation but I'm happy for you to try to make the argument that the US is a more free country when 'it' seems to have a penchant for locking people up.for example, education or a lead in science and technology? Yes I do believe people are incredibly childish when they ignore such obvious representations of a countries superiority in some regards so as to perpetrate a sterotype they feel comfortable with.
A lead in Universities is not indicative of the average level of educational attainment of a person from the US versus someone from Ireland or Burkina Faso. I would not bring you to a gym in Ireland and say look how strong Irish men are.
Universities attract people from all over the world. For people who have the money getting a university education in the US is a means to open doors to great wealth. That says little about the overall health of the educational system in the US.I am refering to the near constant "Lol dum fook Americans!" the tone being if ONLY they were as clever as us the world would be a better place.
I agree that much anti-American sentiment is quite ill-thought out. People tend to confuse hypocritical US foreign policy with the people of the US.Governments (not private groups) routinely cancel and change shows to show ethnic groups in "the right light".
That may be true but is it not also true that US media outlets are biased when it comes to US foreign policy and the actions of US allies around the world?Agression has little to do with intelleigence except in that power and influence is gained by intelligence and the more power you have the easier and more common warfare becomes.
What now?0 -
The only companies that seems to have pulled are Lowes and some Kayak company. The group that called for the ban, seem to be not telling the truth in regard to who pulled there ads.
Secondly, those who did pull the ad's seem to be at the recieving end of a boycott themselves, which imho they deserve for listening to a nasty little group of extremists, who also tried the same thing to another tv show:
Florida Family Association Boycotts Target For Supporting Degrassi, The Trevor Project
There clearly not big fans of any minority. Also, I find it rather funny that a few on here seem to be supportive of this small band of extremist loud mouths and there delusions and lies, who don't represent the average American imho.0 -
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Chuck Stone wrote: »'We' don't have one of the worlds largest prison populations per capita. I understand that correlation is not causation but I'm happy for you to try to make the argument that the US is a more free country when 'it' seems to have a penchant for locking people up.
You would have an argument if Ireland did not lock people up. It does not. It merely does so with less severity, in most places has a lower crime rate. This is not a freedom we enjoy and they do not.
My first example was freedom of speech is protected there, which seems to have been blown off by people. The same people that often try and convince themselves the US is a "police state" no doubt.
Second example, because it is the most obvious is the right to bear a weapon (far beyond that available in Irleand). It is irrelevant if you or I think it it is a "good idea" the fact it is an important right they have and we do not is the only salient point.
Again, like those that beleive Americans dumb those that make comments like "land of the free hohohho!" Will not actually engage with examples, as their opinion is much more of a religion than based on empirical evidence. That they so quickly bail when called out is testament.Chuck Stone wrote: »A lead in Universities is not indicative of the average level of educational attainment of a person from the US versus someone from Ireland or Burkina Faso. I would not bring you to a gym in Ireland and say look how strong Irish men are.
No it is exactly that. It may be squewed to some extent because of immigrants (who often then consider themselves american) but the idea that the complete dominance in education means nothing about the vast majority of people that are educated and run the insitutions is ridiculous. Its not even close when one combines the REST OF THE WORLD. Think about that. To try and brush this off as a statistical anomoloy or not indicative of SOMETHING in that society in regard to intelligence and its practice is mindboggling. To imply that this society is then far more "stupid" than the Irish one, but we chose not to use this natural dominance in any way that can actually be measured or observerd is, needless to say, dumb as ****.
3% of the worlds population does not dominate in every measurable field of science, technology and higher education and have it NOT reflect on the people and society that sustain it. You would be very very hard pressed to argue otherwise. Indeed, remember I am arguing that there is no indication Irish people are any smarter than Americans. The fact is that there is every indication that they are far and away the most succesful intellectually in the world, far from being "alot dumber than Irish" no matter where Irish people lie behind them on that spectrum you people seem so sure should exist.Chuck Stone wrote: »Universities attract people from all over the world. For people who have the money getting a university education in the US is a means to open doors to great wealth. That says little about the overall health of the educational system in the US.
According to statistics despite the cost poor americans are more likely to go to university than the poor british, but thats moot.
Yes the best from all over go to study and better themselves there. Not France. Not India. Certainly not Ireland. This does not mean "nothing" - to most it means that it is recognised by most who can and want to do well to be the best place for ones talents and intellect to flourish.
Money is not an arbitrary thing. Again the FACT the US generates far more wealth per person is not a vacuous point. It is NOT the type of thing Irish or any other society would not do if they could.Chuck Stone wrote: »I agree that much anti-American sentiment is quite ill-thought out. People tend to confuse hypocritical US foreign policy with the people of the US.
I agree, but the idea that any foreign policy is not hypocritical is a joke to begin with. Irish people tut as though our government is throwing itself around in the name of others. US officials are always very clear to point out American interests are foremost. As Irish are for the Irish government. And as they should be.
However in Ireland (and I hear other western European countries) the dislike of the foreign policy is used as an excuse for the hate then becomes much more personal. That is to say dislike of the foreign policy is cited for why they think american people are stupid. Even in the Middle East (people who are often far better informend and have far far far more reasons to dislike US foreign policy) are often very careful to say they have nothing against american people and are incredibly impressed by their technological/educational achievments. A maturity sadly lacking here.
Ive lost count of the amount of times (and I know this is anecdotal, but what the heck) a show, or product is considered excellent by a freind and is american, but that goes unremarked upon. When another show / product is dumb the stupidity is then deemed to be on account of its Americanism. That its so very common in Ireland, and that such cognitive dissonance can not quickly be picked out IS a sad reflection of our abilities.
That so many people believe themselves so superior intellectually, but not in any of the fashions that can be meassured (they prove the opposite) or that can or will manifest itself (they would use it as an example otherwise) anywhere but in their imaginations and those of likeminded people reeks of an inferiority complex. It really is textbook.Chuck Stone wrote: »That may be true but is it not also true that US media outlets are biased when it comes to US foreign policy and the actions of US allies around the world?
Never said it wasnt, but then US media outlets run the gambit from extreme right wing to so anti american Richie would cry with joy. There is no "ministtry of propoganda" that tells people what they can and cannot watch and say how THIS is how the news will be told tomorrow. Media everywhere is guilty of extreme "follow the leader" on occasion, this is rarely an indication of a massive government conspiracy, merely lazyness.
An indication of this is how much traction the left-right continuum now gets - more so in Europe than in the States. To explain, news scources have become so entrenched politically that if you were to tell me the position of a news site on abortion I could derive maybe 20 other incredibly diverse positions from that alone. It is a worlwide problem, maybe championed by Fox but more than emraced by Al Jazeera, the Guardian and the Daily Mail and the like.Chuck Stone wrote: »What now?
Just pointing out how many wars a state gets in has much more to do with how easy the wars will be than it does with any intellectual criteria. Indeed, throughout history those at certain times who would be considered the most warlike are often also far and away the most "advanced".0 -
The only companies that seems to have pulled are Lowes and some Kayak company. The group that called for the ban, seem to be not telling the truth in regard to who pulled there ads.
Secondly, those who did pull the ad's seem to be at the recieving end of a boycott themselves, which imho they deserve for listening to a nasty little group of extremists, who also tried the same thing to another tv show:
Florida Family Association Boycotts Target For Supporting Degrassi, The Trevor Project
There clearly not big fans of any minority. Also, I find it rather funny that a few on here seem to be supportive of this small band of extremist loud mouths and there delusions and lies, who don't represent the average American imho.
People support them? As the poll I posted clearly showsthe opinion is many times more popular in Western European countries. Probably one of the reasons it has flourished is so few people bother calling attention to it.
I support them in so far I support anyones right to be a complete asshole. I dont think they shoudl be arressted, or the government should take action. Having said that I hope the private boycott devastates them financially.0 -
You would have an argument if Ireland did not lock people up.
So Ireland would have to have zero people in prison for me to point out that the the US has one of the worlds largest prison populations? That's just rubbish.
Anyway consider this.
Ireland scores higher than the US on freedom rankings.
On economic freedom too although it's close.
Ireland scores higher than the US in democracy rankings.
Ireland scores way higher than the US for press freedom
So maybe the Irish do have a point when it comes to looking across the Atlantic with a critical eye when it's described as the land of the free.
Edit: Educational rankingReading Literacy
In 2003, the United States ranked 15th of 29 OECD countries in reading literacy,
Scientific Literacy
The United States ranks 21st of 30 OECD countries in scientific literacy, and the U.S. score of 489 fell below the OECD average of 500 (OECD 2007b). One quarter (24.4 percent) of U.S. fifteen-year-olds do not reach the baseline level of science achievement. This is the level at which students begin to demonstrate the science competencies that will enable them to use science and technology in life situations (OECD 2007b).
Mathematics Literacy
The United States ranks 25th of 30 OECD countries in mathematics literacy, and the average score of 474 fell well below the OECD average of 498.
Problem Solving
In 2003, the U.S. ranked 24th of 29 OECD countries in problem solving, and the average score of 477 fell well below the OECD average of 500 (OECD 2004). Half of American students fell below the threshold of problem-solving skills considered necessary to meet emerging workforce demands (OECD 2004).
Source
My goodness.0 -
Chuck Stone wrote: »So Ireland would have to have zero people in prison for me to point out that the the US has one of the worlds largest prison populations? That's just rubbish.
Anyway consider this.
Ireland scores higher than the US on freedom rankings.
On economic freedom too although it's close.
Ireland scores higher than the US in democracy rankings.
Ireland scores way higher than the US for press freedom
So maybe the Irish do have a point when it comes to looking across the Atlantic with a critical eye when it's described as the land of the free.
No ireland would have to have zero people for it to be a freedom Irish people enjoy that Americans do not. Your confusing yourself.
Freedom indicators are usually sckewed (not unfairly but significantly) because of cost. Larger countries are "less free" because of systemic difficulties involved with having more than a few 10;'s of millions of ciitzens. Again, if this were "the argument" proving AMericans are dumb then it ould be leveled at any number of places, many many more severly than the States. People like Richies obbsession with this meaning stupidity or "police state" status requires extenuating evidence, not evidence that the Us is in some respect "average".
If it were the case that Irish superiority was based on anything like that a similiar attitude would be had to the other vouple of dozen nations on the lists. It is not the case.Chuck Stone wrote: »Edit: Educational ranking
My goodness.
The US has and hopefully always will be far more focused on third level education. Remember what you are arguing here. that they are "stupid" I never claimed they were all genius', I claimed that if Irish peopel did inherently better, or were inherently better across a brought specturm of time we would DO better. Is that really so far out there?
So according to rankings a college educated American is admittedly on average far better educated than an equivalent Irish person, a secondary level person is educated to about the same level. And this is grounds enough for the Richies and others guffawing sense of superiority? Hmmmm.
Not making excuses either but given that 15% of americans dont speak english as a 1st language, and the enormous problems that created in ireland when a handful did not do the same, primary and secondary education is always far more effected by social, demographic and wealth factors than innate ability.0 -
philologos wrote: »Others can do as they wish, but if you're going to criticise the Bible or Christian belief on boards.ie, I think it's highly fair that I can challenge such criticism in return.
Don't you?
Says the guy who pretends to put people on ignore when they contradict anything you say, despite not having them on ignore and even PMing them while on ignore.
You tried to put up your defense Of Christianity and it was thoroughly destroyed. Then you ran. So really before you start lecturing others on fair challenges and responses, practice a bit of it yourself please.0 -
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So illegal = no english, yea?
Not sure where anyone said that. I think if you scroll up a whole two posts you will see the user said "....americans dont speak english as a 1st language". Nothing to do with not speaking English _at all_.
Maybe that is the source of your disagreement over 5% or 15%. One of you is talking about who speaks no English (in which case I still think 5% is a bit conservative) and the other about people for whom it is not a first language (and I also think 15% sounds low but I do not know and have not seen the figures.0 -
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So illegal = no english, yea?
btw us pop= 307,006,550.
So, toss in 100,000 English speaking illegals ............ that would leave up to 4% non English (first language) illegals. You've only got to drive through most of California, Arizona, Texas and so on to see the counter folk rabbit away in their own lingo before asking if they can help you Sir.
On the other side, head to Florida ............ you get the same.
Not to mention Compton, Watts, Harlem and other areas where the indigenous population have only a tentative grasp of the lingua franca
This is not counting the older (legal) French Canadians that still speak the mother tongue.
Surely GOOGLE will come up with some numbers?0
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