General Star Trek thread

Evade

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Ah no, she is a very clever lady of manipulation and power. She is more like Nixon.

Damar, before the end, is more like the Trump. In over his head without much idea what's really going on.

LionelNashe

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Ah no, she is a very clever lady of manipulation and power. She is more like Nixon.

pixelburp wrote: »

Ouch, think that insults Kai Winn she knew how to play the game and (mostly) get what she wanted through politics, flattery and weaponised piousness. You hated her but she knew what she was doing. Trump is a blustering idiot way out of his depth, being shown up as a trust fund paper tiger.

What! She's a two-faced wagon. I don't know how Kira stops herself from drop-kicking her off the promenade.

LionelNashe

LionelNashe wrote: »

What! She's a two-faced wagon. I don't know how Kira stops herself from drop-kicking her off the promenade.

That's not in dispute but she was a very intelligent, shrewd and sophisticated political animal.
She was no Trump

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

Damar, before the end, is more like the Trump. In over his head without much idea what's really going on.

That’s not quite the full picture though. Damar went from being Dukats right hand man, to leader of a resistance movement. He wasn’t meant to know what he was doing, and throughout the arc, we seen him putting his personal bias and experience aside, accepting he had to learn from a woman he once called his enemy, and ultimately become a figurehead of Cardassian freedom. By the end, Damar was the one we were rooting for, as he came to represent the potential in all of us to grow, evolve, and become better people. That’s Star Trek 101.

Trump is a corrupt, bumbling, out of touch, glorified ribbon cutter, who, like all US Presidents, would like us to believe they’re calling the shots; in reality though, they’re just puppets who become more celebrity like each time they’re elected. I find it hard to see the similarities tbh

Evade

Inviere wrote: »

That’s not quite the full picture though. Damar went from being Dukats right hand man, to leader of a resistance movement. He wasn’t meant to know what he was doing, and throughout the arc, we seen him putting his personal bias and experience aside, accepting he had to learn from a woman he once called his enemy, and ultimately become a figurehead of Cardassian freedom. By the end, Damar was the one we were rooting for, as he came to represent the potential in all of us to grow, evolve, and become better people. That’s Star Trek 101.

That's why I wrote up until his change of heart. Before he was personally inconvenienced and decided to change sides Damar was Pretty Trumpish. Even during the Dominion's stint on DS9 he was incompetent. Thinking about it now the only good thing Damar ever did was defer to Kira at everything else he was a bumbling idiot.

Inviere wrote: »

corrupt, bumbling, out of touch, glorified ribbon cutter, who, like all US Presidents leaders of the Cardassian Union under the Dominion, would like us to believe they’re calling the shots; in reality though, they’re just puppets

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

Before he was personally inconvenienced

Hmm, can’t say I ever felt his change of heart was for personal reasons. For me, he seen the Dominion take a larger and larger stake in Cardassian affairs, he began to see the alliance as being very biased towards Dominion interests, and seen his people become second class citizens in their own territory. It was also somewhat poetic to see Kira point out t Damar, that it was that same treatment that the Cardassians inflicted upon the Bajorans. For me, everything he done, including giving his life, was, “for Cardassia!!”

As for incompetence, I dunno, I felt he became a hugely influential social figure. Remember the mumorings of “where’s Damar”, “Damar is alive, my cousin seen him”, and the almost reverence of the young boy who seen him in the streets after he was presumed dead. You’re not wrong though, but I think he had to be written that way to show his increasing disolussion with the alliance.

Evade

Inviere wrote: »

Hmm, can’t say I ever felt his change of heart was for personal reasons. For me, he seen the Dominion take a larger and larger stake in Cardassian affairs, he began to see the alliance as being very biased towards Dominion interests, and seen his people become second class citizens in their own territory. It was also somewhat poetic to see Kira point out t Damar, that it was that same treatment that the Cardassians inflicted upon the Bajorans. For me, everything he done, including giving his life, was, “for Cardassia!!”

I always saw it as his personal power and authority being undermined is what lead to his change of heart. Had he not felt that his pride was injured I think he would have stayed with the Dominion to the end. Bringing in the Breen was fine, placing them above the average Cardassian was fine, placing Thots Gor and Pran above Damar was a personal insult and Damar can't have that. I'm not saying once he changed he wasn't a true believer but I think his initial motivations were much more selfish than they were patriotic.

Inviere wrote: »

As for incompetence, I dunno, I felt he became a hugely influential social figure. Remember the mumorings of “where’s Damar”, “Damar is alive, my cousin seen him”, and the almost reverence of the young boy who seen him in the streets after he was presumed dead. You’re not wrong though, but I think he had to be written that way to show his increasing disolussion with the alliance.

DS9 had a similar false folk hero before, Li Nalas. Admittedly Li wasn't a bad guy but he wasn't the hero he was made out to be either. Sometimes a downtrodden people will latch on to any glimmer of hope, even Damar.

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

Bringing in the Breen was fine, placing them above the average Cardassian was fine

Ooh no, can’t say I agree there. Damar had big issues with the Breen being given preferential treatment over Cardassia. It was a huge factoring catalyst for his change of heart.

Inviere

Evade wrote: »

DS9 had a similar false folk hero before, Li Nalas. Admittedly Li wasn't a bad guy but he wasn't the hero he was made out to be either. Sometimes a downtrodden people will latch on to any glimmer of hope, even Damar.

I don’t feel he was a false folk hero, nor solely because the people were downtrodden, though I’d grant that’s a factor. Damar stood for freedom from oppression, talked the talk and walked the walk. Li Nalas was reluctant about how people seen him, and what he stood for. I feel the writers were more so mirroring what Kira had to experience in the resistance, through Damar.

Evade

Inviere wrote: »

Ooh no, can’t say I agree there. Damar had big issues with the Breen being given preferential treatment over Cardassia. It was a huge factoring catalyst for his change of heart.

Fine was probably the wrong word to use but it wasn't until he was losing his status that he really went full rebel.

IvySlayer

Inviere wrote: »

Ooh no, can’t say I agree there. Damar had big issues with the Breen being given preferential treatment over Cardassia. It was a huge factoring catalyst for his change of heart.

Damar switched when the Dominion sacrificed millions of Cardassian soldiers after promising to reinforce them

That makes Damar a patriot. He did kill Ziyal for refusing to obey Dukat

Inviere

IvySlayer wrote: »

Damar switched when the Dominion sacrificed millions of Cardassian soldiers after promising to reinforce them

That makes Damar a patriot. He did kill Ziyal for refusing to obey Dukat

Indeed, that was one of the primary factors, on top of his then growing disillusionment with the alliance. Far more a patriot, than someone personally inconvenienced.

_Kaiser_

Unlike Dukat, who was definitely the leader of Cardassia and well able for Weyoun, Damar was only ever a soldier that accidentally found himself in the top job (like the guy the Dominion found to replace him when he rebelled).

As a result Weyoun and the Dominion were able to increasingly diminish Cardassia's standing in the new alliance and Damar's ability to influence the direction. This frustration is why he starts drinking and womanising IMO (in the earlier episodes with him and Dukat vs the Klingons he's shown as a competent soldier and second). When the Breen are brought in and further overshadow Cardassia's position it makes things worse for Damar, but a brief "pep talk" from a returning Dukat helps him turn it around, though it's not until Weyoun casually condemns millions of Cardassian soldiers to death that he finally takes a stand.

So in effect, it's all Dukat's fault!... Weyoun would never have managed to manipulate and ignore him the same way! All 3 though are fantastic characters played by excellent actors

DS9: Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places

Such a great episode: brilliant comedic timing from all involved and the tension between O'Brien and Kira is hilarious

Justin Credible Darts

Updated my star trek site now with 1701 images......here is my latest creation (click for full size)




My Website

http://gazomg-trek-art.blogspot.ie/

coffee_cake

still working my way through my ds9 rewatch. it's great.
just laughing at something that struck me in Vortex though - 'hello new world we never had contact with, we have one of your people, his name is croden'.
'ok cool send him over'
imagine someone contacting us like 'hello we have john'
'you want to be a bit more specific there'

Inviere

Jaysus - https://twitter.com/AdamRackoff/status/960231479216427008

pixelburp

It's the studios that need convincing, I believe they've been quite blunt about why there have been no HD remasters of DS9, Voyager etc.: apparently the TNG remaster blu-ray undersold (IIRC the remaster cost $20 million), and they're not convinced the spin-offs would sell half as well.

Goodshape

Inviere wrote: »

Jaysus - https://twitter.com/AdamRackoff/status/960231479216427008

Inviere

pixelburp wrote: »

apparently the TNG remaster blu-ray undersold

Indeed it did, but imo, they got greedy & it came back and bit them (and us) in the ass. The prices of the individual seasons on bluray was nothing short of outrageous, I'm not at all surprised it undersold. Had they have had a lower entry price point, I've no doubt sales would have been higher.

As for DS9 & Voyager in HD, it is what fans want, but again, if they're going to be looking at €80/€90 a season, it's gonna sell very poorly. In fact, they shouldn't be sold in individual seasons, it should be a full set of all seasons for no higher than €100/€120.

That said, the other thing that goes against a remaster is the drop in sales of physical media. Streaming/digital would appear to be the mainstream now.

Inviere

I see yer man who posted that on Twitter is some kind of crowd funding manager or something too, I wonder if he's eyeing up a venture.

Evade

The only thing is we're in a slightly different world now. Streaming rights for outside of the US, I assume it would end up on CBS All Access there, could put a dent in that $20 million before they even start.

The_Valeyard

Inviere wrote: »

Indeed it did, but imo, they got greedy & it came back and bit them (and us) in the ass. The prices of the individual seasons on bluray was nothing short of outrageous, I'm not at all surprised it undersold. Had they have had a lower entry price point, I've no doubt sales would have been higher.

As for DS9 & Voyager in HD, it is what fans want, but again, if they're going to be looking at €80/€90 a season, it's gonna sell very poorly. In fact, they shouldn't be sold in individual seasons, it should be a full set of all seasons for no higher than €100/€120.

That said, the other thing that goes against a remaster is the drop in sales of physical media. Streaming/digital would appear to be the mainstream now.

DS9 seasons 4 to 7 HD remastered? Id buy that. Those Dominion war scenes......

Slydice

Inviere wrote: »

Jaysus - https://twitter.com/AdamRackoff/status/960231479216427008

:eek:

WWWAAANNNNTTTT!!!!!

helimachoptor

Slydice wrote: »

:eek:

WWWAAANNNNTTTT!!!!!

yeha i seen that before, its great stuff, I would pay good money for a full bluray quality edition of DS9

coffee_cake

o'brien and bashir in storyteller. oh the lols. o'brien is great with his eyerolling and yes sir :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Slydice

No Discovery tonight!

WHYYYYYYY??!!?!?

coffee_cake

i don't know about jadzia's season 3 hairstyle now

Evade

bluewolf wrote: »

i don't know about jadzia's season 3 hairstyle now

Are You watching the first episode? It goes back to normal after that and then gets weird again in the mid season two-parter.

coffee_cake

Evade wrote: »

Are You watching the first episode? It goes back to normal after that and then gets weird again in the mid season two-parter.

yeah just on the first ep now! that's good to know

i forgot how awesome sisko is